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Behind the Aegis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-26-04 02:14 PM
Original message
Great minds of DU...HELP! (Long post inside)
OK, I posted a response to a right-wing email (you can find it here and it very long so you can read a few paragraphs and get the gist Original right-wing email and my response).

The original author of that ditty has replied to me with the following and I already have some ideas, but I thought I would pick the brains of the wise and learned DU'ers who are here. I would appreciate any help!

The response:
Some people choose to be insulted when noinsulted is intended. My good friend "so and so" sent out a meaningless email defining liberals in ways that aren't true, I sent one out defining liberals and conservatives in a ridiculous manner.

If you're trully concerned about racism, support the Republican Party, that was greatly responsible for passing the various Civil Rights legislation that was oppossed by Southern Democrats.

If you're concerned about religious bigotry don't support the ACLU who has declared the Boy Scouts public enemy number one and a religious organization...all the while supporting the rights of pedophiles to publish "How To" books and magazines...even after it's been shown the publication of these materials have played a role in the molestation of children.

There was nothing racist, sexist, or homophobic (gotta love that word) in what I sent out. Was it bursque humor? Sure. Was it offensive? Only if you are already predisposed to take offense at someone who disagrees with you.

In this political season you have to ask yourself who best represents what is good about our nation, and who best represents our values. For me that person is George W. Bush. He knows where he stands on issues...even the ones I disagree with him on. His stands are not a moving target. He's strong on defense of the nation...which is VERY important to me. He understands the same way I do that the War on Terror will last for years...most likely decades. And that it's best to fight that war over there, rather than in NYC. He understands that Presidents don't "create jobs" unless they hire new federal workers...the best one can do is help create an environment that encourages the growth of the economy...thus the Tax cuts we have ALL received...I've got $60.00 a month more in my pay check due to the tax cuts...plus the additional child tax credit...me, the guy making less than 50K. I get tired of hearing from the liberals that the tax cuts went only to the wealthy...this isn't true...the wealth will receive more of a tax cut DOLLAR WISE, but that's because they pay the overwhelming majority of the tax burden....I've never been hired by someone making less than $100,000 a year...have you? Kerry's tax plan will raise taxes on small business owners...the ones creating most of the jobs.
After inheriting the recession that started under Clinton, the tech stock bubble burst, the Enron scandals, and 9-11 the economy is still growing under Bush's leadership.
Bush stands firm on American values, which are in the main, quite traditional, while at the same time not wanting to discriminate against someone for being outside the norm of society. Like 75% of the population Bush is against redefining marriage, but not in favor of discriminating against homosexuals. He believes that private organizations do a better job at helping people than the government, and that they should be allowed to use government funds for outreach programs that feed and cloth people, and provide them healthcare, etc...Does Kerry even have a religion? I as a Catholic don't recognize him as a fellow Catholic.
Racist? Bush has more minorities in his cabinet than any other president has, not as a show either, but because they were the best people for the job. He believes what MLK Jr believed, that a person should be judged by the content of their character, not the color of their skin. For this reason he oppossed the University of Michigan granting more points to someone for being a person of color than for their SAT scores in the admissions process. I've never understood how the African American community can continue to support a political party that has done absolutely nothing for them except take them for granted.

Bush understands, unlike Kerry, that the United Nations has lost relevance in the world. The whole time we are, in good faith, trying to develop a Consensus and have the UN support it's own resolutions, members of the UN are taking ENORMOUS profits from the oil for food program. The French especially oppose us at every turn, because they have had the most to lose in all this. It was financially profitable for France to have Saddam remain in power. Yet these are the very same people Kerry wants to turn to and develop a coalition....news flash, there already IS a colation. The French...our good "allies" that Kerry wants to turn to, had even been selling weapons to Saddam, inspite of the UN imposed embargo...The Russians had been selling weapons technology, and the Germans industrial and weapons technology...yet the left keeps yelling that we went in for oil...never once condemning the UN, the French, Russians, and Germans for their profiteering...and for being responsible for the loss of American lives by selling better weapons to the Iraqis.

We see the UN do it's familiar hem haw with Iran and Sudan as well. How do you form a coalition with people who wouldn't even take care of the problems on their own continent (Bosnia and Kosovo). Apparently they forgot the history that brought about WW1.

Does Kerry have a better plan? No one seems to know what it is...except that the seven points he's brought up are things already being done by the Bush administration.

In the final analysis, I as a soldier and a citizen of the US see Kerry as dangerous to the US. He's willing to sleep with the UN in an unholy marriage where we sell out our right to self defense to the profiteering interests of the most anti American and anti Semetic Body this side of Hamas. This man who betrayed his country in 1971 by telling outright lies to the Senate while there were American POW's being tortured to say these very things Kerry was lying about.

Bush has spent WAY TO MUCH MONEY (I'm looking your way prescription drug benefit) but Kerry would spend more....and raise taxes to boot...and harm the growing economy.

Kerry has no core values, no core beliefs, no inner resources, other than power...that's my perception. The richest man in the US Government accussing Bush of not understanding the little guy....wiat a minute now...of the four candidates for Pres and Vice Pres, Bush is the least wealthy.

While I'm ranting let me address Haliburton. First and foremost, VP Cheney has his finances in a blind trust...so he's not even sure if he has Haliburton stock now...second...name one other company capable of doing what Haliburton does in a manner quick enough to make it worth while. Haliburton has been providing sole source contracts to the US military since the Vietnam war and before...why are the Dems just now yelling...they did the same in Bosnia and Kosovo....oh, but that was a Dem adminsitration, can't criticize them then.

I'm done ranting for now, I'm waiting my turn to go to Iraq and/Afghanistan to serve my counrty...please leave Bush in charge so that the sacrafices we soldiers have made thus far are not in vain. And regardless of who you support, VOTE this year...oh, and let's encourage CBS to fire Dan Rather.

I hope you had a blessed Holiday.
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Rabrrrrrr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-26-04 02:17 PM
Response to Original message
1. Sorry, I just couldn't slog through that bullshit
after I got to the part where he said that he's totally okay with the evil plan to ensure that the war on terror takes decades or more.

Stupid fucker shitwad.
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Behind the Aegis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-26-04 02:26 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. I know...
..what you mean! My partner and I got some good laughs at his "reasons" for supporting the Mistake-in-Office! I think what is so funny, is that he claims he was just being funny with his other post...well, I claimed I was just using "liberal" humor and they don't get it. They sure can dish it out, but can't take it!

Thanks for the reply.

Brightest Blessings!
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vetwife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-26-04 03:24 PM
Response to Reply #1
8. Ask them what bible they are using? Then ask them about this?
Edited on Sun Sep-26-04 03:52 PM by vetwife
Render unto Caesar (the govt.) and this which is God's God.Its the first order of separation from chruch and state.

In Matthew. the new law of the christians...The B attitudes.Matt. Chapter 5
Blessed are poor

Tell them that they are to take no thought of tomorrow and in that sense portfolios and stock options are not in the plan according to he will of God.

The budget....We had a surplus and according to even the top economic people the tax cuts did throw us into a heck of a bind. We cannot nation build while the very companies that have tax shelters already, move their businesses offshore and are tax exempt. This is not fair to the working man or woman. Tell them the day we invaded Iraq 28 billion was cut from the VA Healthcare. Tell them to look it up. Rep. Jim McDermott was on C-Span and had the Resoultion number. There was billions of dollars allocated in the December ominibous bill that called for building an indoor rainforest in Iowa.
A shopping center in California. A t-Golf program for children, the whole time they were cutting children's health care programs. The constitution says that To provide for the common defense and Welfare and like the bible they leave out what they want in the constitution as well as in the bible, which is hypocritical. No where does it say Avenge.In the bible, but rather Its say to Love your enemies and Vengenance is Mine, sayeth the Lord.

If you don't want to scripture scrabble..Then go back to the argument of the tax cuts. Not all people received those tax cuts. when you have job outsourced, you don't have a job and what kind of tax are you going to file but again only the top 1 percent saw any real tax cuts except for the people with children and even at that the cost of living has surpassed any kind of livable wage.

There is no conservative balance in their thinking.
I have all of this on a CD Its at cost if you want to order..just clik on my signature. Plenty of ammo. I don't have the biblical in there but Clinton left with a projected surplus and was in deficit when he took power. It took him 2 and one half years to work it down and get us out of debt. We were in a huge deficit butnothing like now. How can Bush say he has not had a chance to to decrease the decicit? Gore cast the tiebreaking vote to get the budget and deficit under control. Another thing. The republicans spent billions of dollars on an investigation that proved nothing but a blue dress. Bush has lied over and over to the American people and claims no accountability nor mistakes. That is out of touch wih reality. The 87 Billion was full of pork and hardly any of that money has funded our troops. They got the War chest. Halliburton profited. tell them that ! No child left behind has been mandated but not funded. they, yes THEY are closing VA medical facilities and closing bases. Cheney did it under the 1st Bush. Bush has yet to give an increase on Veterans Benefits as high as Clinton did.

Here are some quotes that they cannot argue with and then ask them about that !

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or that we are to stand by the president right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." -Theodore Roosevelt

Classic War Quote by Benjamin Franklin
They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.

Classic War Quote by Benjamin Franklin
There never was a good war or a bad peace

Dwight D. Eisenhower, 1953
Don't join the burners. Don't be afraid to go to your library and read every book, as long as any document does not offend your own ideas of decency; that should be your only censorship.

John F. Kennedy, 1962
We are not afraid to entrust the American people with unpleasant facts, foreign ideas, alien philosophies, and competitive values. For a nation that is afraid to let its people judge the truth and falsehood in an open market is afraid of its people



Ulysses S. Grant, 1875



Leave the matter of religion to the family altar, the church, and the private school, supported entirely by private contributions. Keep the church and the state forever separate.


Theodore Roosevelt, 1918


Free speech, exercised both individually and through a free press, is a necessity in any country where people are themselves free


Classic War Quote by Benjamin Franklin


They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.
Classic War Quote by Benjamin Franklin
There never was a good war or a bad peace

George Bush
There's an old saying in Tennessee - I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee - that says, fool me once, shame on - shame on you. Fool me - you can't get fooled again

"If this were a dictatorship, it'd be a heck of a lot easier...just as long as I'm the dictator..."
--Washington, DC, Dec 18, 2000, during his first trip to Washington as President-Elect


All of the secret meetings are not bibical either. If they want to put religion first and forefront then they have to take the parts of of the bible they don't like as well. The bible KJV speaks against secret meetings. That which is done in darkness and secret shall be brought to light.

The man who was put into power after Saddam was trained by the CIA and shot in the head 6 people . He himself is a dictator.

Bigotry is not partisian but Bush has not met with one single member of the Black Caucacus since he has been in office. He calls Powell Baloon feet in public. This was documented in the O'Neill book the former sect. of Treasury. He has held few meetings with the press and makes people who want to hear his views sign a loyalty oath. The patriot act is not a toolf of the people it is an insult to our civil liberties and even Bob Barr is against it along with Dick Armey. He claims christianity but curses like a sailor. he is either one or the other. People of faith live it they don't go around trying to change people.

You may be wasting your breath but this is fact and documented.
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Blackhawkdown Donating Member (3 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-26-04 03:45 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. Nice job.
Not as clean and organized as the other fellas but definately takes up a lot of space. Jumps around a lot. Hard to follow. The various points were scattered. Other than that nice work. I like how you threw in the CD for sale. A little captitolist marketing never hurts.


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vetwife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-26-04 03:50 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. Too hard to follow? Hmmmm..I don't make anything DU and Guy James gets
Edited on Sun Sep-26-04 03:55 PM by vetwife
the proceeds. But I agree, its nice work. I just threw some things together that was truthful, I didn't know it was an essay and would be graded ! A lot of talk shows and even C-Span thinks I make sense ..Oh well..critics everywhere. 2 posts..........I have 3500 but I don't just visit here. I work here for material. Oh and at Military.com as well.
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Blackhawkdown Donating Member (3 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-26-04 04:10 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. I apologize..
I was just hoping someone would take that letter piece by piece and thoroughly refute it. I wanted to see each point taken apart and dissected. That is why I am here. You pretty much just harped on religion. There has to be someone here is is apt enough to debunk that letter....I would love to read it..
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vetwife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-26-04 08:34 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. I had to go to religion..that is their main theme..it always goes
back to Clinton's morals our lack of values and how it is about Guns, God and Gays but always GOD. They need preaching to from the left. I am always a bit organized than that peice, but when you mention issues, they go straight for the christianity point.
Sorry I was abrupt but I deal with these fundies daily in the dee deep state of red clay Georgia. AFter all it is theology that is driving them and their main agenda. We have to debunk their way of thinking before we can get to issues. Or that is my opinion. They are like a Cult ! I am a preachers ki who is dem and he is dem and trust me they are totally doing to the bible what they are doing to our laws, our bill of rights and what they did to Clinton. And they are doing it in the name of God. Terrible !
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-26-04 02:26 PM
Response to Original message
2. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
serryjw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-26-04 02:28 PM
Response to Original message
4. Why bother?
Except the fact that there are 35% of this country no matter what you say will never agree with you...He is ONE!

Spend your last 36 days talking to swing/undecided voters. Want to sleep tonight....He is what makes a democracy! He has a constitutional right.....to be wrong!
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Behind the Aegis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-26-04 02:36 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. Interesting
I understand where you are coming from, but being in Oklahoma, I guess I had reached my saturation of right-wing BS. I also like hard luck cases. I feel if I can open one mind, then I am doing my job as a liberal. I have had the opportunity to reach a few undecideds, even though in Oklahoma it won't make that big of difference...at least not yet!!! :evilgrin:

Brightest Blessings and thanks for the response!
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serryjw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-26-04 02:49 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. We all do it!
But we are down to the wire. Maximize your time by talking to people whom really are open to what you have to say.
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leftyandproud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-26-04 03:05 PM
Response to Original message
7. ignore him
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jbm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-26-04 04:24 PM
Response to Original message
12. I just have a couple of minutes..
Edited on Sun Sep-26-04 04:29 PM by jbm
but I'll take the first sentence.

<snip>If you're trully concerned about racism, support the Republican Party, that was greatly responsible for passing the various Civil Rights legislation that was oppossed by Southern Democrats. <snip>




Someone else can correct me if I'm wrong, but it's my understanding that the early repubs were fairly liberal(I've seen Lincoln described as a 'progressive' many times) and the southern dems were ultra conservatives. The parties flipped liberal/conservative positions over the years. Don't fall into a trap of letting someone use 'republican' and 'democrat' as though they are synonyms for 'conservative' and 'liberal', because they're not.


(on edit) I just did a quick scan through the rest of his e-mail to you. It's just a bunch of ranting opinions based on nothing. Tell him that's the stupidest bunch of nonsense you've ever seen, and to come talk to you again when he's got some legitimate arguments.


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