Bush vs. Nixon

[WLKjr]

Poll question: Bush vs. Nixon

Okay, time to make another Bush comparison, and not with hitler this time, but with Nixon. I was told once by an uncle that during the watergate scandal, that was the closest America ever got to a constitutional crisis that could have brought down the country.


Well all that happend like 30 or so years ago, and now we have more scandals and more lies. SO I pose the question to any older DU'ers (though it really doesn't matter if your not older) who is worse (or was) Bush? or Nixon?,
Which scandal ridden Administration was/is worse?

[skooooo]

1. GW -- not even close, imo

[WLKjr]

2. That's what I seem to see......

I want to try to get a good discussion going on about this.

[skooooo]

6. Well, Nixon was bad..

..but it seemed like the system worked back then to take him down. That's because the Republicans didn't control both Houses of Congress. Did they control the Senate? I'm not sure.

Nixon was shrewd. He had a lot of other things going for him. He opened up China, started the EPA, and established affirmative action. In many ways, he was more liberal than any democrat who's run for a long time.

Of course he was paranoid and crooked, but not totally crazy like GW seems to be.

[autorank]

18. And Nixon was smart.

Differences

Nixon: Dem Congress
Bush: Fascist Congress

Nixon: Smart, capable people in cabinet (although some loathsome)
Bush: You know the answer to this one.

Nixon: Massive intellect (twisted but huge)
Bush: Teenie, weenie brain

Nixon violated the Constitution, got a lot more people killed than ever needed to be killed, and got a bit strange at the end. He had a first rate mind and applied it (e.g., China). When he quit politics and took the NY State Bar Exam (one of the hardest), he got the highest score ever recorded (it was mostly essay) on a 'blind' grading system. Bush can't even sting together one sentence, answer more than a few questions, or put together a clear argument.

Bush vindicates Nixon. Hell, Bush makes Reagan look real good!

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

3. Nixon was an amateur.

I remember watching the Watergate hearings and thinking there couldn't possibly be a more corrupt, dastardly president than Tricky Dick. Boy, was I wrong. If Nixon rose from the grave tomorrow I'd be happy to take him back if it meant B*sh would go away.

[WLKjr]

4. Maybe you can set me straight here

What exactly was watergate really about other than the break in at the DNC?

Was it just Nixon being paranoid or was there something more to it?

[skooooo]

8. article excerpt

from Britannica online....

(1972–75), U.S. political scandal surrounding the revelation of illegal activities on the part of the incumbent Republican administration of President Richard M. Nixon during and after the 1972 presidential election campaign.

The matter was first brought to public attention by the arrest of five men who, on June 17, 1972, broke into the headquarters of the Democratic National Committee at the Watergate, an office–apartment–hotel complex in Washington, D.C. Within a few days of their arrest at the Watergate, charges of burglary and wiretapping were brought against the five and against E. Howard Hunt, Jr., a former White House aide, and G. Gordon Liddy, general counsel for the Committee for the Re-election of the President. All seven were tried before Judge John J. Sirica, chief judge of the U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia, in January 1973. During the months between their arrest and their trial, President Nixon and his aides had denied that anyone in the administration had been involved, despite persistent press reports to the contrary, especially in The Washington Post.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

9. It's quite a story.

It all started when some guys working for the Committee to Re-Elect the President ("CREEP"), as masterminded by G. Gordon Liddy, broke into the offices of the DNC at the Watergate complex. The burglary was discovered when a guard noticed that a lock had been taped open, and the guys were quickly arrested. For a long time it was passed off as "a third-rate burglary," and Nixon and the Repubs claimed they had nothing to do with it and knew nothing about it. Then an informant nicknamed "Deep Throat," whose identity has not yet been revealed, leaked information to Washington Post reporters Bob Woodward and Carl Bernstein, indicating that Nixon and CREEP were behind the whole thing, and that they were also paying hush money to the "burglars." Eventually there was an investigation. Nixon fired a special prosecutor and some other investigators who got too nosey (this was the "Saturday Night Massacre"). Then John Dean spilled the beans (read his book, "Worse than Watergate"), and the investigators discovered that Nixon had secretly taped all of his Oval Office conversations and meetings. The Supreme Court ordered him to turn over the tapes. When Nixon's involvement in and knowledge of the Watergate burglary became known, his impeachment was virtually certain, and he resigned in August of 1974. I kept the TV I watched his resignation speech on. Rent the movies "All the President's Men" and Oliver Stone's "Nixon." The whole thing is really fascinating.

[AntiCoup2K4]

10. The question is WHAT was in the documents that were stolen.

The tapes of Nixon that have been heard often have him making reference to "that whole Bay of Pigs thing". But when Nixon mentions this he's usually not only referring to "the Cubans" but "the Texans" as well. Now the "Texan" associated with the Bay of Pigs would be one George Herbert Walker Bush Sr. And the Cuban exiles under Bush's command in that operation were also known to be in Dallas Texas on 11-22-63, as was Poppy Bush himself. CIA agent E. Howard Hunt, whose name would surface in the Watergate scandal itself was briefly held by Dallas police for questioning in JFK's murder, and may very well have been the actual shooter. So Nixon's references to "that whole Bay of Pigs thing" is not merely literal, but also his code speak for the events in Dallas as well. It's been speculated that the stolen documents might have linked JFK's assassination to the failed Cuban invasion somehow.

[Barney Rocks]

11. I thought that it came out

in 1995 what the burglars were looking for

:shrug:

they were after the people who had made contributions to both campaigns. Big stuff in the 1960's no biggie today--now just about every major organization gives to both campaigns to have influence no matter who wins.

And nothing was actually "stolen" they got caught in the act? That is the story as I was always taught it.

[madaboutharry]

5. Bush is much worse than

Nixon. Nixon was simply a corrupt a-hole.

[AntiCoup2K4]

7. Every Repug administration since WWII has been basically the same people..

...and those people would be the Bush Criminal Empire. Richard Nixon owed his entire political career to the BCE, first as a lawyer helping their Nazi friends get into this country. Prescott Bush is the one who put the Eisenhower/Nixon ticket together. Ike actually saw their machine forming, and tried to warn America about "the military industrial complex", as he called it. But where Ike was reluctant, Tricky Dick was a company man all the way. Supposedly Eisenhower and Nixon didn't speak for years after the 1960 election because of their disagreements on the BCE agenda for the Republicans.

Anyway, it's been a steady progression downhill from there. Think about it... anybody alive in August of 1974 couldn't fathom a President worse than Nixon. Then we got Reagan. Anybody who lived through 8 years of Reagan couldn't imagine worse than that. Until they got 4 years of Poppy. And after that combined 12 years of arms races and economic Hell, you would think that people would be smart enough to never allow those people in the White House again. But after only 8 years off - it happenned. And even if Bush goes down hard this time (and I hope he does), I can no longer have enough faith in the American people NOT to be stupid enough to vote for Jeb in 2008 or 2012.

Voting these bastards out isn't enough. They must be prevented from ever being on the ballot again - by whatever means neccessary. (And relax Agent Mike - I ain't going there. Least not until they steal another election)

[cheshire]

12. I remember Mom saying Nixon said "You won't have me to kick around

anymore at one point" He was whiny, sneaky, nasty, tricky. But he knew when he was beat. * Learned (wrongly) from that to never admit you where wrong. He is like the murderer who would rather have others pay for his defense than to be a man and admit he did it. So therefore commits as many crimes on humanity as possible before have those same folks pay for his long stay in prison and possible rentry into mainstream America. A taker.

[rpannier]

13. At least with Nixon...

we got the EPA, the first Native American to head the Bureau of Indian Affairs, etc. Nixon had some very progressive policies.
scrubbies policies are all regressive.
scrub is a zillion times worse on his best day than Nixon was on his worst.

[Ravenseye]

14. Exactly what I was thinking...

...Nixon for all his bad parts, was at least somewhat progressive. Sure he was a lying son of a bitch, but where would we have been by now without the EPA and superfund etc?

I can make a list of the good things Nixon did. Sure the bad things out weigh the good things....

I'm stumped to mention one thing Bush did that I like. Seriously. I'm sitting here and can't think of a damn thing.

[ButterflyBlood]

15. I can think of one, but only one

Do Not Call

[Ravenseye]

20. That is a good one!

I'll admit it!

I like something Bush did!

Isn't it sad though, that keeping telemarketers from calling at dinner time is the best thing he's done?

Also it doesn't work anymore. They've just moved the telemarketers to Quebec now apparently so they can call away.

So something I liked but it didn't solve the problem.

*sigh*

[ButterflyBlood]

16. Without a doubt, *

Nixon was just your standard corrput politician. We've had them before. * is just a fucking disaster in every possible way.

[Nebraska_Liberal]

19. Nixon Vs. Bush

My dad told me that when Nixon resigned it was the fifth happiest day of his life behind marriage and the birth of his three sons. But Bush's corruption has lead to deaths. There will always be slimy politicians, but hopefully there actions dont lead to the death of thousands of Americans and tens of thousands of civilians.

[Endangered Specie]

17. At least with Nixon we got...

the EPA and the Endangered Species Act, and a couple other things... I cant remember off the top of the head.


Unlike Bush, who seems to want to turn the Earth into Venus.

[Hubert Flottz]

21. That is the only way you will EVER get me to vote Bush!

King George is the closest think to Bush!

[noonwitch]

22. Nixon had some good policies

He was not a racist, he did not actively oppose a woman's dominion over her own body, he did open relations with China. These things somewhat make up for Watergate, but not for his biggest mistakes, having Allende killed and bombing Cambodia.

Reagan was worse than Nixon. Funding the contras by selling weapons to Iran has got to be one of the most stupid things a President did in modern times. The way he decided to take down the USSR, when it was already in decline, almost bankrupted our country too. He also thought it was cool to pay people like OBL to fight the soviets in Afganistan, thus teaching and enabling them to attack us later.

I don't know if Bush is worse than Reagan, or more like Reagan continued.