NH woman denied morning-after pill, receives lecture from Pharmacist

[Bluebear]

LACONIA - When Suzanne Richards went to a drive-through Brooks pharmacy on a recent Saturday night, an assistant told her the pharmacist could not fill her prescription for the morning-after pill.

When Richards told the assistant she had gotten the prescription filled at there before, pharmacist Todd Sklencar came to the window and told her he was morally opposed to prescribing something that could end a life, Richards said.

Sklencar then told her to transfer the prescription to another pharmacy.

"He said something like, 'I believe this will end the fertilization of the egg and this conception was your choice,'" Richards told Foster's Sunday Citizen.

"I'm a single mother and I'm just trying to be responsible," she said. "When I realized what he was saying, I pulled the car over in the parking lot and just cried."

Richards returned to the pharmacy later that night with her father, but Sklencar once again refused to fill the prescription and did not tell her where she could get it filled, she said.

http://www.theunionleader.com/articles_showfast.html?article=44651

[enki23]

1. sue the motherfucker for child support

or the cost of the potential aborition, should either come of this.

[Deja Q]

7. No effing way, that is a human life!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Have the quack pay for the woman's healthcare during her pregnancy AND also the costs to move Junior to a foster home after she delivers it.

If these motherfuckers have a big thing on life, then they should pay for it if they see fit to control our lives.

[SammyWinstonJack]

66. Right the F on!

I so agree!

[ThomCat]

8. A lawsuit is the least this asswipe should get.

He should get a pink slip and a large dose of public humiliation.

Then he should be hit with all the bills for the pregnancy or abortion.

:mad:

[Jacobin]

2. Duh, change pharmacies!!

[Shoeempress]

6. Laconia is the sticks. Not like there would be another pharmacy around

the corner.

[maveric]

102. Laconia is not that far into the sticks.

I know that there is more tan one in that Lakes Region town. I used to vacation there every year.

[rocktivity]

75. Pharmacists CANNOT override a perscription any more than plumber can

She should make a citizen's arrest of the pharmacist on the charge of practicing medicine without a license, and sue the pharmacy for discrimination.

:headbang:
rocknation

[sandnsea]

111. They're changing these laws

I've seen several states trying to pass laws where pharmacists don't have to fill prescriptions if they find it morally objectionable. I cannot even believe what this country is coming to.

[SemperEadem]

167. then they should be denied licenses if they do so

because they are not functioning for the greater good of patients--they are functioning as the own narrow precepts have seduced them to believe.

[DoNotRefill]

121. Nope, they can't change it....

but they can refuse to fill it. And making a "citizen's arrest" is often a process fraught with peril to the person making it.

[Shoeempress]

3. Go to the pharmacy licensing board and get his license pulled

permanently. Does he fill Rxs for BCPs, sell Condoms in the store? what a hypocrite.

[nodehopper]

68. oh, it's so bad...the problem is this is legal in several states.

if a pharacist is ethically opposed to it, he legally can not fill the prescription.
it makes my blood boil

[MUSTANG_2004]

157. Why does it make your blood boil?

It seems reasonable to me that if someone is opposed to selling a product or service, that they should be able to choose not to sell it.

I'm pro-choice, but would not like to see pharamacists and/or doctors forced to provide a service that they think is morally wrong.

[sadiesworld]

163. Tripe.

Would you have a problem with the pharmacist refusing to fill a prescription for Viagra b/c he feels like it interferes with "natural desires"? What about a pharmacist refusing to fill a prescription for Accutane (an anti-acne medication) b/c he is concerned about potential birth defects (which Accutane CAN cause).

It is not the pharmacist's job to override/ignore decisions made by the prescribing physician. For all this nutjob knows, the woman could have a medical condition which makes pregnancy a life-threatening condition.

If he can't "sell the product", he should get out of the biz.

[MUSTANG_2004]

165. Um, no

I wouldn't have a problem with a pharmacist refusing to fill any prescription if he thinks it is wrong. Similarly, I wouldn't expect an ob/gyn to perform abortions if they were pro-life.

I think "pro-choice" goes both ways. Choosing not to provide an abortion service is as much a right as choosing to have one.

I think he handled it badly, but I think in a free country he shouldn't be required to sell products he disagrees with.

[Character Assassin]

187. Vapid self-righteousness doesn't become you.

Would you have a problem with the pharmacist refusing to fill a prescription for Viagra b/c he feels like it interferes with "natural desires"? What about a pharmacist refusing to fill a prescription for Accutane (an anti-acne medication) b/c he is concerned about potential birth defects (which Accutane CAN cause).

No. Why would anyone insist that he violate his conscious by doing so if he were opposed to them? Does he give up his freedom of choice as to which products to sell because he hung out a shingle?

It is not the pharmacist's job to override/ignore decisions made by the prescribing physician.

What are you going on about? He's obviously incapable of 'overriding' or ignoring any decision her doctor made. He's legally unable to do so. He is simply choosing not to be responsible for supplying what the prescription calls for, and is no way whatsoever preventing the poor thing from taking her business elsewhere and getting what it calls for.

For all this nutjob knows, the woman could have a medical condition which makes pregnancy a life-threatening condition.

BFD. If that were the case, and her status meant her life depended on her getting that drug at that time from any pharmacy, her condition wouldn't have been addressed by a prescription, but rather a medical procedure.

And following one's conscious makes on a 'nutjob', hmmmm?

Welcome to the 21st century, Comrade.

If he can't "sell the product", he should get out of the biz.

If you don't understand ethics, you should refrain from speaking about them.

[noiretextatique]

225. he'a pharmacist

i could understand his professional objection to filling a prescription for a drug he thought was dangerous...that's reasonable and ethical.

but using his personal moral beliefs about when life begins interfere with his ability to fill prescriptions is not professional or ethical.

his job is to fill prescriptions aaccurately...not to deny some people some prescriptions because his god thinks he should.

[SemperEadem]

166. if he has filled it in the past and has no stated policy

posted in his pharmacy anywhere or mailed out to his customers that he will no longer fill prescriptions that go against his moral grain, then he is in error.

In the first place, he doesn't prescribe a gotdamn thing--he fills what the doctor-the prescriber--orders.

If that is his stand then he needs to man up and state it clearly and unmistakably to all of his customers, instead of issuing his condemnation concerning the health of someone he's not legally entitled to intefer with. By this token, if he's opposed to equal right for blacks, can he refuse to fill a precription for sickle cell anemia medications or high blood pressure medication? He's only got a pharmaceutical degree, not an anointing from God to act as God on earth where he sees fit.

[MUSTANG_2004]

171. I agree totally

It should have been policy that was clearly posted.

But your analogy to sickle cell anemia is a poor one. A closer analogy would be whether a pharmacist can refuse to fill a prescription he knows will be used for a suicide/euthanasia (i.e. should he be allowed to refuse to participate in something that he believes will kill someone).

[Wapsie B]

209. That's it .

Not to denegrate Pharmacists but they don't prescribe anything. They're order-takers. The Doctor prescribes the medicine. In addition to civil suits any pharmacist doing such a thing should be arrested for practicing medicine without a medical license and stripped of their pharm license.

[JerseygirlCT]

179. Then such a pharmacist needs to work only where he/she will never

have to fill such an Rx... maybe a senior citizens home. Or else find another line of work.

At the very least, the pharmacy should have to advertise that the pharmacist will not fill every rx... let's see how business does then, and how the employer feels about this employee's big moral qualms.

[nodehopper]

183. then they sholdn't be pharmacists

with something like the morning-after pill, where timing is crucial, in areas where there are few pharmacies this may amount to denying a woan her reproductive freedom.
That's like an HIV doctor refusing to treat a gay patient b/c the doctor morally believes homosexality is orally wrong and HIV is punishent for it.

[MUSTANG_2004]

199. Show me the difference

between "If he doesn't want to fill a prescription for an abortifacient, then he shouldn't be a pharmacist" and
"If she doesn't want a baby, then she shouldn't have sex".

I think he handled it very badly, but the people saying he should be forced to sell it or lose his license are not seeing the irony in such statements coming from the pro-choice side.

[Renew Deal]

190. I don't agree with that.

They are paid to give meds, not opinions. If he isn't willing to do his job, he shouldn't work there.

[greekspeak]

4. Is there no medical ethics board where people can report this?

It would seem that a pharmacist would be required to dispense legal drugs given with a valid prescription. What next? "I am morally opposed to giving you your prozac sir. I think you are just full of demons." "I am morally opposed to giving you heart medication. You should have excersized. Now go lie in the bed you made for yourself." Utter bullshit. He is a pharmicist. If he wants to force his morals onto another person, he needs to become a FundiVangelical preacher, a career in which moral relativism is a core value.

[Radius]

5. Illegal in my state(nt)

[Shoeempress]

11. And probably here to, but NH is SOOO corrupt. Lived in Chicago &

Boston. Thought they were corrupt, NH is the Gold Standard of corrupt.

[Dakini23]

9. This is scary

The pharmacist needs to do his job and leave his personal beliefs out of this. I feel sorry for this woman. I have taken the morning after pill years ago, when I was living in London...this was 1987.
I can't belive what is happening to women's rights. Seems we are going backwards...this pharmacist should lose his job for what he put this woman through!!!
Thanks for sharing the article and now I have one more reason to be mad at the Xtian Right.

[Bluebear]

14. Ajna welcome to DU!

[juajen]

42. Who's that skating? Looks like John Kerry

Love it, whoever it is.

[Shallah Kali]

180. The skater looks like Paul Wylie to me

He was a great skater :)

[ThomCat]

18. Welcome to DU.

:hi:

[wuushew]

10. Why the hell is this behavior not caught during the job interview?

seems to me people having moral problems with medicine should not apply for jobs where they can deny it to others.

[oldcoot]

35. Exactly

He should be willing to fill any legitimate prescription for any drug sold by his employer. If he works for a business that normally sells the morning after pill, he should get another job. After all, he would not want to profit from the murder of innocent "unborn babies" would he?

[catzies]

182. Best point yet! After all, she had no way of knowing that her pharmacist

was going to go Spanish Inquisition on her. :eyes:

If there are laws that say a licensed pharmacist does not have to sell drugs they don't agree with, then the public should know by way of a posted notice what that person says they won't sell. You know right away to go elsewhere. Case closed. Call it the Scarlet 'P.'

[Lefty48197]

12. Is beating the shit out of him an option?

I mean, does the father have moral objections or anything?

[donsu]

134. my first thought too - us women could drag him down from his post

and teach him the facts of life women face.

(why are pharmacists always on a platform higher then the customer?)

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

13. I noted that the

bozo is "on vacation" and has no phone/address available. He should follow the law, which, according to the article, means he doesn't have to fill the prescription, but DID have to direct her to another pharmacy.

And hearing about the Texan pharmacist who refused to help a RAPE victim made me sick.

Wonder how many kids either of these people have adopted. Probably none.

[knitter4democracy]

15. You know

You know, I'm beginning to think Atwood had it right in the Handmaid's Tale, just twenty years or so off. What the heck? If he really feels like that, the least he can do is forward her scrip to another pharmacy. Jerk. Why don't we picket him? We could have pictures of real kids with cost projections under them, etc.

[Alenne]

16. Someone should pass a law

that makes the pharmacist financially responsible for any child that results from their refusal to fill an emergency contraception prescription. If you are going to take responsibility for a not even fertilized or implanted egg, your responsibility should not be able to end there.

[Bluebear]

17. The fundies only care about the fetus until it's born

Then the hell with it.

[VOX]

22. Exactly. And execute it 18 years later, especially if it's black.

Birth control after-the-fact is A-OK with fundies.

[Sputnik]

39. As George Carlin said

"Conservatives: all in favor of the unborn. Anything for the unborn.But once you're born, you're on your own. Pro-life conservatives are obsessed with the fetus from conception to nine months. After that, they don't wanna know about you. They don't wanna hear from you. No neo-natal care, no day care, no Head Start, no school lunch, no food stamps, no welfare, no nothin'. If you're pre-born you're fine, if you're pre-school, you're fucked."

[kayell]

19. How in the hell did he know she didn't need it because of a rape?

Not that this kind of decision is EVER right for a pharmacist (or for a doctor or any other health provider*), but how did the prying asshole KNOW that the sex was consensual? Did he quiz her to find out?

*if these people are ethically opposed to abortion or birth control or women not being kept barefoot and pregnant, then they damn well need to find another career ASAP.

:grr:

[MountainLaurel]

31. Probably DIDN'T CARE

Once again, these folks are more concerned about a cell or two than a human woman.

[Bluebear]

181. Perzactly.

[no_hypocrisy]

20. Bottom Line: patient privacy. This is none of his f'ing business.

[Karenina]

25. EXACTAMUNDO!

:hi:

[kayell]

21. Next: Christian Scientist pharmacists who refuse to fill ANY prescriptions

It's GAWD's will.

[Shallah Kali]

60. Followed by Fundies who refuse to fill a prescription unless you are Saved

Convert or die! Don't want the Fundies to violate their religious beliefs by dealing with unSaved folks do we. {/end scarcasm}

[Occulus]

74. That's really not sarcasm, actually.

I've heard people argue that AIDS patients shouldn't get medication because "AIDS cures fags". Oh, thank you so much, "Reverend" Phelps.

[Shallah Kali]

81. I really fear the so-called conscience clause. It is a licence to discrimi

Not only against women's right to be in control of their own bodies but for racisim and religious prejudice. Racist doctors and other medical personal will be allowed to refuse to treat people because of their skin color. and like I said before the fundies will be legally able to refuse to treat those who are not of their faith because they can claim it violates their religious beliefs. I take this movement very seriously as a woman who supports reproductive freedom and as a human being against racisim and religious prejudice.

[deadparrot]

23. I despise fundies. eom

[VOX]

24. This joker's paid to fill the Rx, *not* to spew his opinions to customers

The woman is already in enough distress, without this opinionated clown bring his "moral" judgement on her.

She was a customer, asking for legitimate business. If I were his boss, I'd fire the SOB on the spot.

[Renew Deal]

26. "I'm a single mother and I'm just trying to be responsible,"

Then what is she doing screwing guys with the chance of getting pregnant. I know there is the assumption to this that she didn't use a rubber. I would be sympathetic to her if she didn't say that. The pharmacist should be fired. His job is not to give advice, just meds.

[Lars39]

27. Oh, yes. She should be celibate until she hits *the change*

:eyes:

[politicat]

91. No, I don't think that can be implied from B7....

That we should be careful, use condoms and other barrier methods; use maintenance birth control pills instead of emergency....

But there's nothing that implies celibacy. One needn't be celibate to be careful.

That said, morning after pills *ARE* viable contraception and while they're not "thinking ahead" in the short term, they are behaving responsibly.

And sex happens. B7, if you tell me you've never gotten carried away in the heat of the moment (even if married) then I think we might wanna check your pulse.... :silly:

Pcat

[Renew Deal]

138. No comment

:evilgrin:

[Mandate My Ass]

123. Yeah

No sex after procreation, especially if you don´t have a license to f""k from the state. Didn´t you get the memo?

[Gin]

28. Don't cry....take the damn prescription elswhere.....there are tons of

pharmacies all over my area....he is entitled to his opinion...and let your dollars do the walking. Getting emotional won't help...realize you pay his salary by getting your prescriptions filled there...screw him...and the pills he rode in on.

[Djinn]

32. exactly

tell the fucker that not only will you and your family be taking your business elsewhere in future but that you will also do your best to ensure every thinking person will do the same.

I don't see how you can force someone to sell something in their business that they don't wish to (presumably it's his business if not then you contact the owners and complain) but you don't have to shop there.

[jdj]

83. I've had to sell all kinds of shit I didn't want to

as a vegetarian, working in restaurants that sell meat, as a recovering alcoholic, working in same selling beer.

But I knew when I took the F@cking job that was part of it, and I had a choice to take the job or not. That is where my choice ends. If I had said I refuse to sell you this ham sandwich on ethical grounds, the management's response would have been "see ya!" Like wise, this should be this asscroft wannabe manager's response. He took the job, so he should suck it up and DO THE JOB or quit.

[Djinn]

97. that's IF he "took the job"

I don't know how pharmacies work in the US - but here most are small business' and the owner can refuse service if he wants to.

As a veggo you probably wouldn't open a Meat Lovers Restaurant right? and if you had a veggo one and someone wanted ham on their meal you could quite reasonably say no - your employees would ahve to follow the rules.

If he was simply an employee you go to another pharmacy and then complain to his boss if he owned the place you go somewhere else and then make sure everyone in town knows his view.

[jdj]

114. oh, sure.

it's so easy, that silly bitch, how dare her make a fuss.

[Djinn]

175. get a grip

I said she SHOULD make a fuss I'd be out the front of this fundie's store with pamphlets and a megaphone AFTER I'd looked after myself and gone to get the pill at another pharmacy

[ProfessorGAC]

156. That's Not True

Most small business can put up a sign saying they will refuse service to anyone they don't like, but that doesn't mean it's legal.

That tends to be state by state, and in many states (like Illinois) home rule laws allow individual communities to make that against the law. (That's a fact in the large town where i grew up.)

It's not de facto that a small business can refuse to serve. If they are a public accommodation, they are responsible to serve people who walk in the door. It's that straightforward. Any decision otherwise is potentially in violation of anti-discrimination laws. Remember Title IX says that women are a protected class. This patron was a woman.

The pharmacy could be in legal trouble if this woman decides to press it.
The Professor

[oldcoot]

37. Do you live in or near Laconia?

According to the 2000 census, Laconia has a population of 16,411 people (see: http://search.netscape.com/ns/boomframe.jsp?query=Laconia&page=4&offset=0&result_url=redir%3Fsrc%3Dwebsearch%26requestId%3D5227a00826dc6d52%26clickedItemRank%3D36%26userQuery%3DLaconia%26clickedItemURN%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.bcedc.org%252Fhtml%252Flaconia.html%26invocationType%3Dnext%26fromPage%3DNSCPNextPrev%26amp%3BampTest%3D1&remove_url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bcedc.org%2Fhtml%2Flaconia.html for more information).

Unfortunately, many small towns do not have "tons" of pharmacies. Those people who live in these towns do not always have the option of taking their business elsewhere.

[phylny]

38. According to a quick Yahoo Yellow Pages search, there are three pharmacies

in Laconia:

http://tinyurl.com/4v4cp

and 8 within 10 miles:

http://tinyurl.com/55e3h

and another 8 within 20 miles.

So, there are a total of 19 pharmacies, according to Yahoo Yellow Pages, within 20 miles of Laconia.

I Still think it's despicable for a pharmacist to act so unprofessionally. I'd complain loud and clear to the manager of the pharmacy, and take ALL of my business elsewhere.

[Shallah Kali]

65. but are they open at night? Not many are

No one should have to run around town trying to fill a perscription; doubly so when the medicine needs to be taken as soon as possible to work properly.

[Djinn]

98. morning after pill is a slight misnomer

you actually have about 72 hours - enough time to pop to the pharmacy the next day and get the prescription filled.

[Dorian Gray]

78. small towns...

I came from a town of only 6,000 people. There are three pharmacies in the town. And the next town over... about 5.

There will be another place for her to go. As for his position, I have mixed emotions about it. She should take her money elsewhere, if that is an option. As for the pharmacist, I suppose that this type of action should result in some sort of "professional standards." If people aren't willing to give out prescriptions, they really are in the wrong business.

[Pithlet]

47. No.

A pharmacist has no right to intercede unless there was an error on the doctor's part and the medication could cause the patient harm. He is entitled to his opinion, but he is not entitled to act on it at the detriment of others. His job is to fill the prescription. If he has a moral objection to doing so, then he should find another job. This was particularly egregious because time was of the essence in this situation. At the very least, he should have turned the prescription over to another pharmacist, but, again, if he wants to pick and choose which medications a patient takes, then perhaps he should open up his own health food and supplement shop, which is not bound by the same rules.

[Hello_Kitty]

67. Yeah but....

Some areas don't have that many pharmacies. What if there's only one for a 100 miles where you are? Also some insurance plans require you to use certain pharmacies. So a lot of women could be denied health care based on the religious beliefs of a pharmacist. That's BS.

[Swede]

29. She was going for the morning after pill!

What is more responsible then that.

[Renew Deal]

46. Here's a list.

1. Don't have sex.
2. Take the pill
3. Some other contraceptive

All of those and more that I haven't thought of would be more responsible.

[nodehopper]

70. well, that's your opinion, not an obective criteria of responsibilty

the morning after pill is a responsible way to prevent unplanned pregnancy.

[Renew Deal]

93. Are you just making this shit up?

The morning after pill is more responsible than not having sex? OK

Is it more responsible than wearing a condom? I doubt it.

Is it more responsible than getting on the pill? Certainly not.

How about this one? Is it more responsible than taking the pill and using a rubber?

I am sure we can come up with more combinations.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

169. Condoms break; birth control fails

[Renew Deal]

194. Birth control failed her 3 times?

I know that there is a failure rate on condoms and the pill. The morning after pill has an over 20% failure rate.

Compare that with:

Condoms 11%
The Pill 1%
Abstinence 0%
Other methods range...

http://www.fda.gov/fdac/features/1997/babyguide.pdf

So what if she combined these methods? It probably gives her a better chance of not getting pregnant. I am not sure what people here have against personal responsibility. Couldn't she control herself for one night? I know the sex erge is great but... I guess not.

[jdj]

84. wrong, einstein

birth control pills make the uterus inhospitable to a fertilized egg.

next suggestion?

[Renew Deal]

92. Isn't that the point?

Darwin

[jdj]

116. it's not your point.

but that's not stopped you so far.

Re-read your own posts, and get back to me.

[Renew Deal]

191. You are

barely coherent and you want me to reread my posts? :eyes: I have answered every single post on here (I think). You refuse to honestly answer anything I have asked. You said "birth control pills make the uterus inhospitable to a fertilized egg."

Like I said, isn't that the point?

[liontamer]

30. what was that guy doing screwing a woman in the first place

eom

[bleedingheart]

33. I guess you are perfect...

At the very least she is taking responsibility for herself and not waiting until she needs a surgical abortion.
Loads of married women have sex and use these same medications after they throw caution to the wind and have a wild night of unprotected sex with their husband...but nope...let's just beat up on the single mother.

[Renew Deal]

48. How did she end up a single mother?

Was she being responsible that time or this time?

[hoboken123]

61. Are you kidding?

This is who's business exactly? Who the hell are you?

If she answers 'husband died in a car accident eight months ago', then is it ok with you and the pharmacist?

We going to bring back that big red 'A' on the clothes too?

[Renew Deal]

99. I am some guy on the internet.

Who the hell are you? The point is that the morning after pill is not a form of contraception or responsibility. It is a form of termination of birth or irresponsibility.

[Djinn]

104. why is screwing "irresponsible"

in fact why is termination "irresponsible" if you think abortion is wrong or illegal just come out and say it - stop dancing around

[Renew Deal]

108. Show me where I said screwing is irresponsible.

I would like to see it. Do I think abortion is wrong? I think it's a necessary evil. I am not pro-abortion, I am pro-choice. Abortion is legal and safe and I hope it stays that way. I wish the need for abortion didn't exist.

[Djinn]

113. here

"The morning after pill is more responsible than not having sex? OK"

you were being sarcastic so the obvious inference is that having sex without contraception is irresponsible (who knows if that's what this woman did maybe she was on the pill and was taking anti-biotics, maybe the rubber broke??)

Either way you think abortion is a neccesarry "evil" I don't think it's evil.

[jdj]

117. tick-tock, tick-tock, tick-tock

the silence is deadening.

[Renew Deal]

124. Are you thinking again?

:boring:

[Renew Deal]

125. The obvious inference is that

you are taking my words out of context. Are you pro-abortion or pro-choice?

[Djinn]

176. I have ZERO problem with abortion

if that answers your question - the term "pro-abortion" is stupid if someone wanted to get people preggars just so they could ahve an abortion THAT's pro abortion.

Do I follow the "rare" mantra no - they should be available as often as people want them.

Do I beleive being a single mother is irresponsible, no not anymoer than it is to be a single father. Do I beleive that taking contraception (which includes the morning after pill - you CLEARLY have no idea what it does by the way) is irresponsible, no.

Do I have a problem with this fundie pharmacist - YES but I would simply have gone somewhere else and made sure all the other women in town knew his views.

[Renew Deal]

200. More things I never said.

I never said that being a single mother (or father) is irresponsible.

Good, so we disagree on responsibility and the morning after pill. That's OK.

Do I have a problem with a fundie pharmacist. Yes, but I don't think most people would want to shout out that they have had unprotected sex multiple time to the point where they needed the mornig after pill.

[nodehopper]

120. termination of BIRTH you ignoramus?

what the morning after pill does is prevents fertilization. Don't you think it's a bit of a conjecture from that to "termination of birth"?

[Renew Deal]

131. It's a big picture generalization.

This isn't science class and the wording isn't relevant to this discussion. The point is that the morning after pill is not a contraceptive (though some would like to think that). It's a way of terminating, preventing pregnancy after the fact. There is more that she could do before a night on unprotected sex that would be more responsible.

[Mandate My Ass]

152. More misinformation...they all come out of the woodwork on this topic

Maybe you shouldn´t have skipped those science classes, there Sparky, you missed a whole load of important biological information obviously.

EC is contraception. It prevents ovulation or implantation, both of which actions are contraception.


Repeat after me...contraception.

It´s not a pregnancy until the zygote implants itself on the uterine wall. Don´t try to rewrite science and preface it by saying this isn´t a scientific discussion and definitions aren´t relevant.

Who are you or anyone else on this thread to pass judgment on someone you don´t even know? Sad, really....

[Name removed]

185. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Renew Deal]

196. I'm a freeper?

I have over 11,000 posts. You have 754. I am committed to democratic causes. What have you ever done to help the dems? I know, I know. Preaching on DU is hard work. :eyes:

[Name removed]

184. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[MadHound]

130. Just for your own information B7,

The morning after pill IS a form of contraception. It prevents one of the following three scenarios:

First, if sex occurs before the woman ovulates, sperm can remain viable for a few days. The morning after pill alters the hormonal balance in a woman's body, preventing the ovaries from releasing an egg. Voila, a case of contraception.

Second, if sex occurs after ovulation, but before a sperm fertilizes the egg, the hormonal alteration caused by the MA pill reduces the odds of a sperm fertilizing an egg to almost zero. Once again, this is contraception, not termination. It is kind of like the way a rubber works, except it is done with hormones, not latex.

Third, if the sperm has already fertilized the egg, the morning after pill DOES NOT terminate the zygote. The pill's hormonal alterations simply makes the condition of the uterus such that the zygote cannot attach itself to the uteran wall, which by the by is when the situation is determined medically, and legally to be a pregnancy. This action of the MA pill making the uterus inhospitable to a zygote attaching itself to the uteran wall is EXACTLY the same procedure the normal birth control bill does, except it occurs after the sexual act rather than before it.

So thus it is safe to say that the MA pill IS a form of contraception. It isn't an aborticide drug, it doesn't terminate a fetus(you can't have a fetus without uteran wall attachment), it doesn't kill anything. Just to get that straight for you. If you wish to know more, check out here: <http://writ.news.findlaw.com/colb/20040225.html>

So please, please know what you are talking about before you start slapping labels and terms onto things that aren't right. It is this type of sloppy thinking that the RW fundies use, and we really don't need it coming from our side, OK.

[Renew Deal]

144. Thanks for the explanation

It doesn't really change anything, but I think we all appreciate the clarity.

[MadHound]

147. You're welcome, and yes, it does change something

It changes a definition, which can make all of the difference in the world. Many of the RW fundie are jumping all over the MA pill because the think it is an abortion agent simply because it is taken after the sexual act.

It isn't, it is simply another form of contraception. Of course there are plenty of RW fundies out there who don't like contraceptives either, believing that they should have total control of woman's body.

But proper definitions can make all the difference in the world.

[Djinn]

177. it should change it

YOU said she should have ensured she used contraception - it was pointed out that she did - and you phaffed on about her "terminating" a pregnancy.

Any chance of admitting you were wrong.

[Renew Deal]

189. No chance

It doesn't change the point of all this. The point is that she goes out and has fun and then expects to be bailed out by the morning after pill. The question I keep asking which you and others refuse to answer is, could she do anything more responsible? The morning after pill is not a sign of responsibility when you have taken it before and she already has a kid.

[MadHound]

218. So in other word, even though it has been shown

That the MA pill IS a contraceptive, not an abortiontive, even though it has been pointed out that a number of women have problems with other forms of contraception, even though it has been pointed out that we do not have the full story on this matter, and that there could be circumstances that we are unaware of, you are still insisting that this woman is irresbonsible:eyes: How very judgemental of you friend, you had better hope that nobody is ever as harsh with your personal matters as you are being with this woman's personal matters.

Really now, how dare you?! You don't know the full story, yet you insist that this woman is behaving badly. Who are you to come to this determination? A anonymous poster on a political chat board who has no real clue of the real story. And even if this was the full story, you still have no leg to stand on, because it is her body, her choice! You have no cause to judge and find this woman wanting simply because, for whatever reason, this woman chose to take a contraceptive after the fact rather than before. Dude, get a fucking clue, it is not your place.

[hoboken123]

153. No no, you are a condescending and judgemental guy on the....

"How did she end up a single mother?

Was she being responsible that time or this time?"


I ask again, who the hell are you? Should she submit her answers to these questions to you and the pharmacist before she can get LEGALLY PRESCRIBED MEDICATION?



You have some gall.

[Renew Deal]

197. I am some guy on the internet.

Who the hell are you? Like I have said repeatedly. She should have gotten her prescription. She doesn't need to talk to me, you or anyone except her doctor and the pharmacist about it. But that's not the point. She calls herself responsible when she really isn't.

[Swede]

64. I guess you must lead a perfect Republican life.

No sex out of wedlock,not for Bleachers7.

[Renew Deal]

100. I love how people just ignore the point.

[Carson]

141. While I don't necessarily agree with Bleachers7...

...is there something derisive about someone waiting until marriage to have sex?

I wouldn't think so, however you seem to be using it as an insult...or am I reading too much into your statement?

[Swede]

221. Bleacher7 was being judgemental

I was being sarcastic.

[Name removed]

71. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Renew Deal]

101. Make that 11,000

I'm hiding out until 12,000 and then I will start trolling. You think I have blown my cover? :eyes:

[jdj]

85. so all children of unmarried women should be aborted?

you are contradicting yourself.

[Renew Deal]

103. huh

More fantasyland accusations.

[jdj]

115. don't play dumb

when you're caught not making sense.

[Renew Deal]

129. Yeah, OK

:freak:

[Kool Kitty]

86. She could have ended up a single mother the same way I

did-I got divorced. Not that it should make any goddamn difference. Whatever happened to respecting a customer's privacy?

[Renew Deal]

106. I agree with you.

She should have gotten the meds. No questions asked. But that doesn't change the fact that she's 25 with a kid and has used the morning after pill more then once and still calls herself responsible. That's just not responsible.

[MadHound]

133. Gee, from what I see, she is being responsible

She is 25 and is using a known form of birth control, just like the regular pill, rubbers and IUDs are known forms of contraception. So why do you consider her irresbonsible for using a form of contraception after sex, rather than using one before?

There are many reasons to not use the classic forms of birth control. She may be allergic to latex, there goes the rubbers. She could have a sensitive vaginal canal, there goes the IUD and sponges. She may not like the mood swings or other by-products of the regular one a day pill. Instead, she has opted for the morning after pill, a perfectly valid form of contraception that works for her.

Sounds like she is being resbonsible to me friend.

[Renew Deal]

146. Or...

They can use lambskin instead of latex. She can use a lubricant that kills sperm if she is sensitive. Or here's a funny one. She can not have sex. It's OK to not do it if it hurts, gets you sick or pregnant. There is a difference between the morning after pill being valid and her calling herself responsible.

[MadHound]

149. LOL friend,

Or she can be like my sister, and be allergic to almost everything, sponges, lubes, latex etc. And quite frankly, you should go back to Sex Ed 101 if you think that lambskin condoms are any type of protection.

Or yes, she and every other single woman could simply not have sex. Gee, like that's going to really happen, human nature being what it is and all. The sex drive ranks right up there with the need for food, water, and shelter as one of mankinds top motivational instincts. We are, as a species, hard wired to seek out, obtain, and enjoy the sexual act. Who are you, or I for that matter, to tell the entire population of single mothers that they can't have sex? Besides, if all the single women did that, how would all of the single guys get laid?

And quite frankly, taking ANY form of contraceptive is a responsible act. Since we've settled the issue that the MA pill IS a contraceptive, then it follows logically that she is being just as responsible as if she had provided a rubber, using the regular pill, an IUD, etc. etc. Who are we(especially as men, not knowing her entire personal life) to tell her that one form of contraception is better or more responsible than the other?

[Pithlet]

164. You still haven't explained how

using a form of contraception is irresponsible. You keep saying that, but offer up snarky comments whenever anyone questions you on it. She was trying to not get pregnant. Where is the irresponsibility? She's a single mother. So what? They shouldn't use contraception, which is what she was trying to obtain? You're making no sense.

[Renew Deal]

192. OK

The point is that she can't use the morning after pill and call herself responsible at the same time. What form of contraception did she use? The morning after pill? It's called an emergency contraceptive. It only works after the fact with a doctors prescription. Is there anything that she could have done that would be more responsible? Answer that.

[Pithlet]

210. You don't get pregnant the second after you have sex.

Emergency contraceptive really doesn't work after the fact any more than any other method, because a zygote doesn't implant till about 7-12 days after ovulation. Most birth control does its thing well before that, including emergency contraception. All emergency contraception is is a back up plan in case your primary birth control fails. Emergency contraception is expensive and makes the patient sick, so very few people rely on it as their primary method of birth control. There is no such thing as a fool proof primary birth control method.

Even the most intelligent and responsible woman can experience a failure in birth control, even multiple times. There is no evidence that this woman was irresponsible in any way, unless having sex when you don't want to procreate is considered irresponsible. At any rate, you are basing your conclusion of irresponsibility on an article in the media when, unless you know this woman very well and she confides everything to you, you do not have enough information.

All emergency contraception is is the pill in a higher dosage. All the moralizing that the right to life movement does in the media is so much hype.

[Djinn]

178. why are condoms, one form of contraception

resposible but the morning after pill, another form of contraception (remember the fact that it PREVENTS preganancy rather than ends it has alerady been explained to you)

[Renew Deal]

193. Here's why

Because the condoms are used to prevent pregnancy (and disease) before the act. The morning after pill can only be used after the fact. Since we like to deal with hypotheticals here, what if she couldn't get a prescription within 72 hours? Does she have a second child or an abortion?

She could avoid that situation by using contraception or not having sex until she does.

[MadHound]

220. And like I've pointed out to you before

Maybe this is her preferred form of contraception, either from personal preference, or for medical reasons. Perhaps she is poor, and rarely has sex, thus it is cheaper for her to use the MA pill than going on the regular pill. But whatever the case, it is not for you to judge, for you are not in her situation, and you don't know the full story.

And another point, you keep wanting to hold her responsible for not providing before the fact contraception, what about her partner. No rubbers there? Didn't keep contrceptive lubes, sponges on hand(and yes, I did do that back in the day). Didn't take her hints about no sex, just pressed ahead until he got his way? It takes two to tango friend, and quite frankly it seems like the least responsible person in this story was the guy involved. At least this woman was responsible and went out and got contraception after the fact.

[Djinn]

223. she did

"She could avoid that situation by using contraception or not having sex until she does."

once again - she DID use contraception. Either way I do not see having an abortion as irresponsible - in fact if you do not want a kid or can not provide for one then that IS responsible, how is it that you know that she didn't use another form anyway - most of the people I know who've used the "morning after" pill did so because there was a probelm with their regular form of contraception

[Dorian Gray]

206. I don't want to jump on Bleacher's bandwagon

because it is quickly sinking. But I think the point he's trying to make is that there is some MORE responsibility in planning to use contraception BEFORE your act than saying, "Oh, shit! Now I gotta make sure that I don't get pregnant," after finishing said act.

I, too, think it's MORE responsible to plan for things than to be swept up in something, then have to take care of the consequences afterwards.

But, that is a completely different argument than what this topic started out on, and it has no bearing on whether the pharmacist was wrong in refusing to prescribe the morning after pill.

[nodehopper]

107. you should be wearing a scarlet A and keeping your legs crossed too then!

no pills for you!

[Renew Deal]

109. Do you have any respect for the people around you?

Are you even listening to anything anyone says here?

[nodehopper]

119. I have lots of respect for people. Do you have any respect for women?

What with your patronizing Puritan self-righteous attitude?

[Renew Deal]

128. Just because she is a woman

doesn't mean she can't be criticized. But continue your name calling. I am sure it makes you feel better about yourself.

[Dorian Gray]

211. Thanks, nodehopper

I've actually never had to take a morning after pill. Yet, I still manage not to consider myself a better person than someone who has. I've had friend who did. They weren't happy about it because it was (usually, but this is just the case with my friends) followed by a bad experience, usually involving alcohol. Also, if someone is having regular sexual relations, they should be involved in some sort of contraceptive planning. The Morning After Pill is not the best means of contraceptive if you are in a regular relationship or if you have sex regularly in any circumstance.

Despite that, I never said that I didn't want them available to people or for pharmacists to not provide them to people in need. I also don't think that people who make mistakes should be punished for those mistakes. I also never said that people should remain untainted with sex. But, if one plans on having sex, it's probably responsible to plan on using birth control. Condoms are particularly good, even in long term relationships, because they prevent disease as well as pregnancy. The morning after pill doesn't have those benefits.

I never said that people should not have sex, so don't twist my words to make me sound like a closed-minded idiot. I only pointed out that with responsibility there comes some planning. The most responsible people in the world get caught unaware, at times. Big deal! I never said this person was an idiot, shouldn't engage in sex, or should be denied the pill. So get off your high horse!

Why should I keep my legs crossed, anyhow? I never advocated that anybody should not have sex! And I never advocated that people should not use the morning after pill. Just because you don't like the words people are using doesn't mean that their sentiments are wrong.

[SemperEadem]

172. you're certain she's not a widow

it's not like anyone one is owed an explaination from her about her circumstances.

assumptions are all you've got and they're pretty poor at that. you have no concrete evidence of anything you espouse. just a wish to be disruptive and combative.

[Renew Deal]

198. I never said I was certain she's not a widow.

You just said that. The point is that she can't call herself responsible and then also take the morning after pill. No one has the guts to answer this so I will try you. Is there anything she could have done that was more responsible?

The FDA thinks so, but what about you? http://www.fda.gov/fdac/features/1997/babyguide.pdf

BTW, I have no interest in being combative or disruptive. Believe it or not, not everyone agrees with you, even at DU.

[SemperEadem]

173. we ALL fall short before the grace of God, dude

that includes you.

[Renew Deal]

202. I agree

But that's not what we're arguing here. And a whole load of people here would argue whether God even exists.

[Lerkfish]

40. ah...misogyny...it smells like...I dunno...vic'try (/duvall)

geez, when did I take a wrong turn into the 18th century?
take a look at your post, and then look at my rewording of it.....mmmmkay?


Then what is he doing screwing girls with the chance of getting them pregnant. I know there is the assumption to this that he didn't use a rubber. I would be sympathetic to him if he didn't say that.


why oh why don't people put equal (or MORE) responsibility on the men for birth control?
What, like women get THEMSELVES pregnant?

sheesh.

you DON"T rock.

[Renew Deal]

50. In the 18th century...

there would be no morning after pill. I agree, the guy needs to be responsible too. But how can you call her responsible when she gets to the point of the morning after pill? Especially considering she is already a single mother. Isn't there anything she could have done that would have been more responsible than waiting for the morning after pill?

[Pithlet]

55. Is it the pharmacist's business?

Should women have to fill out questionnaires or be subjected to inquisitions before a pharmacist, who is NOT their doctor, fills a prescription that a doctor wrote? Her sex life, her method of birth control, how many children she has, whether or not she's married, what position she favors, all of that is irrelevant

[Renew Deal]

56. I agree with that.

The pharmacist shouldn't work there if he's not willing to do his job.

[MidwestMomma]

59. Duplicate response

Never mind.

[Name removed]

72. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

87. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Renew Deal]

95. I am a rapist?

OK

[HEyHEY]

96. Buddy - you may not agree - but there's no need to call him a child rapist

for christ's sake

[jdj]

118. actually, I didn't

I'm laughing at this, just went to the whining-self-congratulatory thread in the Lounge and saw that, I can't believe he/she took that so personally, it was never meant to be internalized.

Whatever.

[Renew Deal]

126. Whining self congratulatory thread?

lol. I was just laughing at the idiots that assume others are puritans, "christian nutcakes", rapists and child molesters because they disagree with them.

[SemperEadem]

174. why would a man willingly have unprotected sex with

a single mother in the first place? It's not like he didn't know that there was a child in her care. And what does her marital status have to do with anything? It's non sequitur to the issue.

We ALL fall short before the grace of God. None of us is perfect. Just human.

[Renew Deal]

201. The guy should have thought of it too.

That's another piece in this puzzle. What is he doing and who is he? It's none of our business of course, but it would make a big difference in my argument. If he is a different guy from the father and the 1st time she has taken the morning after pill, then that really is a sign that this girls has responsibility issues. If it's been the father every time, it's not the same thing. But no matter what the story is, she could have done a list of things that would be more responsible than taking the morning after pill which we no know has a high failure rate. You are 100% correct in your last statement.

[Djinn]

224. what???

if she's had sex eith more than one bloke in her life then she's definetly irresposible??:wow:

[BiggJawn]

49. Maybe the Rubber BROKE?

Hmmmm? Who's making moral judgements that's "not their job" NOW?

[Renew Deal]

51. Maybe

Maybe it broke the first time she had a kid. Maybe it also broke the first time she took the morning after pill. I guess she just has problems with condoms right?

[BiggJawn]

53. Anyway...

It's really none of our fucking business who she screws and how, is it?

Or are you one of those closet-cases who see "single mom" and instantly thinks "welfare brood sow"?

[Renew Deal]

57. Actually I agree with you.

The guy should have given her the pill. I just think the fact that she calls herself responsible is laughable.

[nodehopper]

73. yes, you better pin a scarlet A on her.

not that it matters in the slightest WHY she is a single mom, bt since you've got warped logic, has it EVER occrred to you that a single mother may mean she is divorced or widowed? if her first baby was conceived in Holy Wedlock does that make her more responsible in yor Puritan eyes?

[Renew Deal]

203. I love the name calling.

You have called me so much stuff here. I think you're leading in deleted threads. Back to business.

Why is my logic warped and yours not? Do we have to agree? I don't think we do.

It has occurred to me that she might be a widow or divorced.

I don't consider myself a puritan and I don't think most people would. It doesn't make a difference to me how she had the child. But answer me this, if she had her baby in a drunken orgy does that make her less responsible to your unbridled eyes? It doesn't matter, but we love hypotheticals here.

[Kool Kitty]

88. That's just a bit judgmental,

don't you think? You don't know this woman's circumstances, do you?

[Renew Deal]

94. I don't think it's too judgemental.

We are dealing with hypotheticals and half information on an internet message board. I think I'm dead on based on what we know and assumptions.

[sffreeways]

122. You're making a giant leap

from how it was she came to need the pill. You have no idea. That's why your position is being attacked. You're assuming the use of the pill in and of itself makes this woman irresponsible but you can't possibly know that. It's judgemental. It's the kind of judgemental that the fundementalists embrace.

There are so many reasons not mentioned here that she may have found herself needing the morning after pill that you don't seem to take into consideration. I don't need to list them just step back and give your position some thought and you'll see clearly why you appear to be very mysognist.

The reason there is a morning after pill is because women have reasons to need one. This is a bad attitude, it's why the right to choose is under attack. Because people believe women get abortions because they are too lazy to use birth control. That they are using abortion as a method of birth control equal to using a condom or the pill and that is just not true. It's a myth. A sexist myth. Abortion is a complexed problem.

This pill has been available in France for over a decade. They don't have the sexual hang ups that Americans do. These issues are beyond those kinds of judgements. It's a medical issue and it isn't a moral issue.

Your position is like assuming as Bush does (in Kitty Kellys book it's perfectly clear he feels this way) that people that need welfare are lazy end of story. That's just ridiculous. It's simple minded and has a mean spirited core belief behind it. I'm not saying that of you I'm saying that is why your being confronted on this thread. You haven't thought it out obviously.

Yes, she is being responsible if she is avoiding a pregnancy she doesn't want or can't have. Totally responsible. The responsible thing to do when there is the potential for an unwanted pregnancy is to terminate it.

[Renew Deal]

127. Thanks for being reasonable

I only partly agree with that. I understand why the morning after pill and abortion are available. They should be legal, safe and available in this country. But let's take what we do know. She is a single mother. She has taken the morning after pill before, probably for one of the many reasons you haven't listed. The article states that "gotten the prescription filled at there before." We of course don't know how many times. But even if this is only the second time, this shows a pattern of irresponsiblity. There are several things that she could do that are more responsible than needing the morning after pill. That's what I'm saying.

BTW, the Union Leader is a right wing rag IIRC. They were the paper that said Eagleton??? was crying about something written about his wife. It ended his run. I moght be wrong about the exact person.

[BurtWorm]

132. It was Muskie whose run was ended by the Union Leader

Now, assume that by denying this woman the right to control her reproduction in this way she becomes pregnant. Is that sufficient punishment, do you think, for her being "irresponsible?" Do you trust that she'll learn from this punishment in time for any child to be born from the pregnancy?

[Renew Deal]

136. That's a different argument

She should have been given the pill. The pharmacist was wrong and he should be removed/terminated. According to everything I have read, she has 72 hours to take the pill. Laconia is not in the middle of nowhere. She can get to another pharmacy which a lot of people in this thread have suggested.

[nodehopper]

69. You are NO BETTER than that pharmacist.

What does it matter what she said or did not say? "I know there is the assumption to thsi that she didn't use a rubber." condoms break. And even if she did not, she was still being responsible in going and taking control of her fertility.

[Renew Deal]

90. Right...

I am no better. I would have given her the meds and I think the guy should be removed, but I am just as bad. How about this woman taking some real responsibility? Maybe she should:

Not have sex
Get on the pill
Get some better rubbers, because she has a kid already and this isn't the first time she is going for the pill. I guess her rubbers just keep breaking.
Get on a better contraceptive


Those are all more responsible than trying to get the morning after pill.

[MadHound]

135. She was using a contraceptive friend

It is called the morning after pill. Just because it isn't on the official Bleachers 7 contraception list doesn't make her choice or her actions any less valid.

[Renew Deal]

137. The morning after pill is not a contraceptive.

It's an emergency contraceptive that is only useful after the fact. Couldn't she do anything before she got to that point. She has used the morning after pill at least one other time. Are her actions valid? Yes. Can she claim to be responsible? I say no.

[MadHound]

139. Actually, you're wrong friend, the MA pill IS a contraceptive

Go check upthread at my posts 130 for a complete explanation and a link on how the MA pill is a contraceptive, and also my post 133 on why she might be using the MA pill as her form of contraceptive(there are many reasons, I've simply listed a few).

[jdj]

80. Did you know that condoms are for penises?

A penis is the male sex organ.

I guess we'll have to wait 9 months for the thread where he whines because he has to pay child support because "she" didn't use a rubber, and although she tried to get a morning-after pill, a male pharmacist refused her, so now he's stuck paying for a kid he could have avoided if "she" had used a rubber, and it's all just so unfair...

[Renew Deal]

204. lol

I did know condoms were for penises. Would it have been more responsible for her to carry one? Would it have been more responsible for her to not have sex until she got one? Actually try to answer something I ask you. You haven't done that yet because you know your argument is weak.

"She" could have/should have used a rubber. You know how? She could have made him wear it. Don't you agree that she could have forced him to wear it? Don't you agree that they could have waited until they had real protection?

He is just as responsible for the kid as she is. If she gets pregnant, they have to share the problem (kid). Who's fault is it if she gets pregnant, hers or the pharmacists? They live in a town with 8 pharmacies and about 20 minutes from the capitol city. She would have no problem going to another pharmacy, but that's not the point.

[sandnsea]

112. Ooooh

This is what you said. Tsk, tsk, tsk. Who knows, maybe she went out for the first time in 6 months, got a little too drunk and got laid. So what. This pill is no different than an IUD, keeps a fertilized egg from being implanted, no big deal. She was being very responsible getting this pill, people have become complete idiots over cells.

[SemperEadem]

170. where did you get that she was screwing around?

I read nothing in that post the her behavior was suspect.

size 13 issues you seem to have.

[Renew Deal]

205. Here is where I got it.

She has a kid. She has requested this pill at least twice that we know including this incident. We don't know if the father is the guy she has needed the pills for. The fact that she got to the point of needing the pill twice plus being a single mother is a sign of irresponsibility.

[SemperEadem]

212. having A child is not evidence of a promiscuous lifestyle

that's non sequitur.

[Renew Deal]

213. You are correct

But being a single mother is a sign of a promiscuous lifestyle. She may or may not be promiscuous, but that's a sign. Another sign is that she has had to use the morning after pill at least one other time before.

[Character Assassin]

215. Shhhh! The logic police are at the door!

But being a single mother is a sign of a promiscuous lifestyle. She may or may not be promiscuous, but that's a sign.

You need a clue. Desperately, it seems.

Here, have one on me: the sentence that I quoted from you above is unsupportable.

No, no need to thank me. Just glad to be able to lend a hand.

[SemperEadem]

216. no, it's not...

again... a non sequitur.

no matter how hard you try, 2+3 does not equal 8.

[bicentennial_baby]

219. Merriam Webster's definition of promiscuous

3 : not restricted to one sexual partner

http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=promiscuous&x=0&y=0

So please explain how being a mother without a partner is a sign of a promiscuous lifestyle? It only takes one man to make a baby.

[Joanne98]

34. WAS SHE WHITE?

Here's my thread on the Pro-WHITE life movement. Somebody should send a black woman to the same pharmacy and he if he refuses her.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=2408153#

[jdj]

82. that is a very good idea.

I hate to say it, but it would be a good sting.

[roguevalley]

36. another man talking about shit he will NEVER HAVE TO KNOW ABOUT,

OR FACE OR DEAL WITH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

God, I am AMAZED about how mad I feel right now. Men can piss off on this issue.

[Lerkfish]

41. I agree... and I'm a man.

As a man, I don't have the equipment to have a vote on this issue.

also, read my post further up on "misogyny".

[Occulus]

77. Well, you're mostly correct

I feel the only time I would ever have any say in any abortion would be if it were my kid under consideration. Then, and only then, would it become even a little bit my business.

[mitchum]

43. That sonofabitch pill-counter makes me ashamed of my gender

I would punch his teeth down his goddamn throat

[NightTrain]

44. Hmm.... I wonder what the pharmacists I work with would say about that?

Maybe I'll ask them.

[noamnety]

45. Folks in MI are trying to make that legal here, too

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=159x919

[HEyHEY]

52. Man, call a lawyer and go to town

[Mr_Spock]

54. OK, specifically where is this pharmacy?

I think they need a lecture or two (or thousand).

Unbelievable - this will not stand and this guy will never dispense another prescription as soon as we can get rid of this fool. I'm feeling sick and angry now - OMG this guy is a fool.

[Bluebear]

58. Well, this would be the Laconia Brooks Pharmacy

Store #487
288 Union Avenue
Laconia , NH 03246
[phone]

[Blitzburgh]

62. Definitely crossed the line

He will be seeking another job soon.

[Mr_Spock]

63. Thanks, time pay them a visit.

I suggest people speak to thier manager and tell him/her what you think - I am going to.

[Must_B_Free]

76. Yawn....

1. Don't give his pharmacy the business

2. Where to get it filled? Why ask him for a referral? just go somewhere else.

[rocktivity]

79. The pharmacist should be REQUIRED to give a referral

AND be required to pay for the perscription out of his own pocket!

:headbang:
rocknation

[Character Assassin]

145. I don't think so. He should be able to conduct business as he wishes

And that is, in this case, according to his conscious.

He should be required to do absolutely nothing, and she should take her business elsewhere.

That is, after the poor dear dries her tears and feels better.

Boo-hoo.

[jdj]

89. Have you never lived near a Mayberry Mafia??

they are shutting plan B out of every small town they can, and if you have a job, and need child care it's not that easy.

[Eurobabe]

105. Hey Todd, NOYFB!!

none of your fucking business. Quit prosletyzing!!

And lady, please switch pharmacies, but before you do, tell us who it is so we can BOYCOTT THEM! I would file a complaint with pharma ethics board, this is really none of this man's business.

[Bluebear]

110. Pharmacist Todd Sklencar. Brooks Pharmacy of Laconia NH

[mitchum]

186. Couldn't find a personal phone # for Todd Sklencar, but...

the # of the pharmacy is 603 528 8523. I'm sure he can be reached at work (when he isn't too busy masturbating over the idea of witch trials)

[TexasSissy]

140. That happened here in Texas, twice.

The pharmacists were terminated, when their companies gave them a choice of complying or leaving.

[TexasSissy]

142. Does that mean he doesn't fill birth control pill Rxs?

Birth control pills abort fertilized embryos, I believe.

[momisold]

143. Choices

The great thing about America... CHOICE.

He has the choice to not fill the order. She has the choice to not shop at that pharmacy anymore. End of story. What does everyone have to be agreeable to everything all the time? We are not. Why do we hold others to a different standard?

I'm not a red-in-the-face, vein-popping Dem. Older moderate. Stop making such a big deal about EVERYTHING.

Bottom line...take your business and go somewhere else.

[Bluebear]

148. "Red-in-the-face, vein-popping Dem"---until it happens to you

If you were refused service somehow I think your take would be different.

[Bridget Burke]

151. The Pharmacist was being unprofessional.

Any drugstores that wish to fill only selected prescriptions need to indicate this fact with large signs at the front door. That way, nobody will be surprised at a bad time. The morning after pill needs to be taken within a specific period. Some communities have few pharmacies--& they may not all be open at convenient hours for people with jobs & family responsibilities.

This notification would also be useful information to those of us who only need Advil & kleenex. We'll also take our business elsewhere.

I'm glad you're not "red-in-the-face, vein-popping"--you'll have no problem with your Viagra prescription.

[momisold]

161. No Viagra needed

First of all, I am female as you could probably tell from my name if you read it - momisold. So I don't need Viagra.

Second, everything that happens in the world is not worth having a coronary over. Get a thicker skin. Take a deep breath.

[Bridget Burke]

162. I thought momisold was a comment about your wife.

I'm not having a coronary about this--was, in fact, just suggesting truth in advertising.

[momisold]

195. Not you specifically

I was not referring to you in particular about having a coronary. More to the people in this thread who have suggested beating the s*** out of him, dragging him off the platform, etc..... THAT's having a coronary, IMHO.

[Gelliebeans]

150. this is the address and phone number

of that particular pharmacy...am going to call them and complain
Brooks Pharmacy
288 Union Avenue
Laconia, NH 03246
Phone: [phone]

[sldavis]

154. a pharmacist's opinion

I almost hate to say anything, because my profession seems to have been vilified a bit in a number of posts above.... but I can't help myself.

I don't work in retail pharmacy, so I don't have much direct experience with this kind of thing. But I try to keep aware of the issue, because it bugs me. The conscience clauses and similar laws vary between states, but all they do is protect (or not) a pharmacist from being fired for refusing to dispense a substance on moral grounds. Nowhere is a pharmacist legally obligated to dispense a medication just because someone has presented the prescription for it. And I don't think you should want them to mindlessly hand over prescription medications without considering safety. Pharmacists, at least good ones, make several judgments before dispensing any medication - this is generally to ensure that the medication will not cause the patient any harm. The pharmacist in question in this situation has a misguided understanding of "harm."

But completely regardless of his moral stance on birth control, this Todd Sklencar is acting very unprofessionally and in opposition to what most pharmacists believe: we must, first and foremost, respect the autonomy and dignity of each patient. The pharmacist's ultimate responsibility is to his/her patient. Any pharmacist choosing to excuse herself from a situation she finds objectionable has the responsibility to the patient to ensure they are referred to another pharmacist who can help. The way this guy treated his patient is unforgivable.
-SLD

[MUSTANG_2004]

158. Well said n/t

[mainer]

160. So if the woman gets pregnant, is the pharmacist liable?

Because of his actions, he prevented her from treatment. She should sue him for child support and OB expenses.

[ProfessorGAC]

155. This Guy Needs A Beating

Unless he said "Human Life" he also needs to stop prescribing antibiotics. Those kill a life. They kill millions of them at one time. That's the whole purpose of antibiotics!

Even if he did say "human life" he still needs a serious beating. What an idiot! Rather than refuse this one woman one medication, maybe he should find a different line of work. Then, he would be able to avoid his moral dilemma, and not inconvenience people engaging in legitimate and legal commerce.
The Professor

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

159. Is he a pharmacist or a preacher. Either way, he fails.

Just as I wouldn't want a grocery store checker to deny my right to buy junk food because he/she thought it was "bad", so too should pharmacists do what their paid for. Or, take up another trade.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

168. The Pharmacist may have violated HIPAA regulations regarding privacy

of patient records and confidentiality.

I will look more into this...

[Th1onein]

188. The pharmacist needs to be fired for ignorance of his profession.

The morning after pill doesn't end a life. It stops conception. It prevents the egg from becoming fertilized. Duh.

[Fleshdancer]

207. exactly

it's a high dosage of the birth control pill. Saying that a woman shouldn't take the morning after pill because it would stop the potential of fertilization is basically the same as saying that a woman shouldn't take birth control pills...it too stops the conception.

Hell, why stop there? Why not make condoms and all other forms of birth control illegal? They all stop the potential fertilization, right?

[skippysmom]

214. don't give them any ideas!

"Hell, why stop there? Why not make condoms and all other forms of birth control illegal?"

That's next on the RR's agenda, I'm sure.

[gauguin57]

208. I. Am. Speechless.

.........

[jerryvov]

217. I emailed Brooks HQ to complain....

...and got this email back from their HR person.

Dear Brooks Pharmacy Customer -

As healthcare professionals, our pharmacists' primary objective is to provide our patients with superior health information and unmatched standards of care.

Our company position is that our pharmacists comply with the policies and procedures to ensure that appropriate care is delivered to our patients. This prohibits a pharmacist from refusing to fill a prescription based on any religious, political or moral beliefs.

An internal investigation relative to the incident which occurred at our Laconia, New Hampshire location is underway and the appropriate follow-up action will be taken. It is also Brooks Pharmacy policy to keep confidential any disciplinary action which may be taken with an individual within the company.

Brooks Pharmacy has traditionally carried and dispensed the Plan B product in question to our patients who present prescriptions, and will continue to provide it.

Sincerely,
Erica Flynn
Customer Care Manager

[Larkspur]

222. What is the Brooks Pharmacy policy? Brooks is a franchise.

If the franchise allows birth control and morning after pills to be sold in its stores, the individual pharmacist can't override that policy. If the franchise allows birth control to be sold, the pharmacist needs to make a decision on whether to continue working there or not.

However, if the pharmacy was a privately owned business, then the owner of that pharmacy can deny selling birth control et al.