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napi21 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-27-04 05:40 PM
Original message
The food police are after you!
http://www.consumerfreedom.com/news_detail.cfm?headline=2651

Ten Dumbest Food Cop Ideas

They want to sue restaurants, Doctors, parents who let kids get fat, and a whole lot of thother things!

This sounds really stupid, but I heard some nut from this group on cspan last week, and if you hear him talk, you'd realize that they are very serious, and I can see them being at least partly successful!
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cheezus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-27-04 05:41 PM
Response to Original message
1. if people want to smoke or do drugs or eat mcdonalds
they should be free to do so, but why should the rest of us pay for the health consequences of their poor choices?

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Eurobabe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-04 01:32 AM
Response to Reply #1
38. i agree, it's like bozos who ride motorcycles
without helmets. what do the insurance and medical companies do about this? if you are dumb enough to ride with out gear, you should sign a waiver and pay for your own injuries, etc.

i had an accident in June last year and I would have been in deep shit without proper protection. sorry, rant off now.
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JohnLocke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-27-04 05:44 PM
Response to Original message
2. "Consumer Freedom" - an industry front group
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napi21 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-27-04 05:52 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. Well, I don't know how I gon on their list, but everything they
talk about is purely insane! I've heard stuff about PETA, Green Peace, the Food Police, and yes, the anti smoking groups.

If they're trying to convince me they have a point here, they've got the wrong patsy.
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Zorra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-27-04 08:23 PM
Response to Reply #2
26. Nice catch. Consumerfreedom.com is a corporate RW "astroturf"
group.

Right Wing Nuts

Astroturf Groups

Astroturf groups are fake grassroots groups set up by corporations and the conservative movement. Most of them exist to generate press for conservative ideas in the media. Others are set up to sway public opinion to the set of "facts" presented by the organization. For example, an astroturf science organization might promote the idea that global warming isn't happening (The scientific community has consensed that global warming is a reality), thus serving the agenda of capitalist companies which seek to avoid any controls on their environmentally hostile products.

http://www.infoshop.org/focus/rightwingnuts.php
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lastliberalintexas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-27-04 05:44 PM
Response to Original message
3. This is simply an anti-lawyer group
They are not pro-consumer in any way. They take the most ridiculous of lawsuits and act like they are the norm rather than the exception.

Just remember that trial lawyers are a huge source of contributions for Dems and liberal organizations. Then you'll understand why the repubs "hate" lawyers.
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4_Legs_Good Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-27-04 05:51 PM
Response to Original message
4. Oh boy, this is going to get ugly!
I agree with the sue-ers on many points. The food industry, and, in particular, the fast food industry is as nefarious (at least almost) as the booze and cigarette industry, particularly in the way the advertise to minors.

It's gonna sound like regurgitation of "Supersize Me", so I won't go on, but everything from Sodas and Taco Bell in schools to "child friendly" packaging and really, really nutritionally empty foods are a serious problem, and taxing, suing and legislating is perhaps a good way to deal with the problem. It's just about the only way (suing) that a regular person can challenge the system.

My 2 year old son has never been inside a McDonald's. He doesn't watch any commercial TV when I am around (and very, very seldom when I'm not) and still, the other day when we drove past the McDonald's and he cries out "french fries". How the hell did that happen?

Sure we should have our own choices and be held responsible for them, but brainwashing by Corporate America is a very serious problem.

david
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napi21 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-27-04 06:03 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. You hit the nail on the head! You are a responsible Mother!
I don't blame the food industry, I blame the patrons! Believe me, people have just gotten lazy!!! It's easier to take the kids to Mickeydee's than it is to make them a peanutbutter and jelly sandwich! It's easier to go there for lunch and pack your own.

A prime example of laziness is the customers at your local supermarket. My husband is a meat cutter at a large chain in the SE. They do a HUGH business in pre-prepared meats! Already stuffed peppers, already made meatloaf, stuffed mushrooms, chicken cordon blu, stuffed prok chops, cooked shrimp, beef stew with the vegies already cut up for you and in the package. I could go on, and on. It's way more expensive to buy this way, but people don't care! It's EASIER!!!

You can't legislate laziness away, the same as you can't legislate moriality or stupidity!!!!
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mrbassman03 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-27-04 06:10 PM
Response to Reply #7
11. PB&J? Heck yeah!
I could walk down to McD's or Pizza Time, but I choose to make my spendy, tasty sandwich... Anyone too lazy to make a PB&J should really not consider even venturing the travel to the fast food place.
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4_Legs_Good Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-27-04 06:17 PM
Response to Reply #7
12. Except I'm a father... :)
But beyond being lazy, we're in a HUGE hurry, and we've got reasonable reasons to be. The pace of life is such that it's so much easier to buy something pre-made than it is to cook from scratch, and when I say "easier" I'm not necessarily saying it as a bad or lazy thing. If not for fastish or pre-made food I would have no rest (neither would my wife) from 6 AM to 9 PM, and we're a TWO parent household with ONE child. Imagine what it would be like a single parent or with 5 kids. (I prefer not to!)

I don't know what the solution is, but we cannot, as a society, allow it to be super salty, fat filled foods. We need to come up with a better solution, and if discouraging fast food, etc., but legislation is the only means of it, then maybe that's the way we should go.

But that's not the real problem as I see it. The real problem is these companies trying to establish "brand loyalty" at incredibly young ages. I don't think that Taco Bell (I keep using that as an example because they're the ones in my wife's school) (though I eat it myself often!) should ever be allowed in public schools (and I'd love to keep it out of private schools as well). In fact I'd say there should never be any brand name food available to kids in school. All food should be prepared from real ingredients, and taxes should be raised appropriately to make sure that our kids are getting the tastiest, healthiest meals possible.

But I'm going on, and I'm a freaking liberal-nut. I know lots and lots of people will disagree with me.

david
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napi21 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-27-04 07:02 PM
Response to Reply #12
16. I hear your concerns, and some are valid.
I've raised my kids already, and they have their own kids now.

About the Taco Bell (or whoever) in the schools. I can go back 2 generations of school lunch programs, and they used to have exactly what you are asking for. I can't cite exact amounts here, but it's fair to say that a lot more than 50% of the food was thrown away! The kids didn't like it! When my sons were in school, they began to introduce pizza to the menu, and the kids were thrilled! They too were very unhappy with most of the other offerings.

I suppose you can blame that on the parents for introducing their children to the wrong foods, or simply spoiling them instead of teaching them to eat good food and not to waste it. I don't know what went wrong, but it's not only important to serve nutritional meals in the lunch program, but have it be something that the kids will EAT!

As to making food from scratch as you call it, it may take 2 extra minutes to make your own hambur patties from bulk packaged gr meat. It may take an extra 5 minutes to cut the chicken legs apart to make thighs & drumstix. Is it quicker to stop at the deli and get the already made fried chicken? Of course! Can you make your own hoagies at half the cost and better ingredients? Yes you can, and it would take 5 minutes!

Take 1/2 an hour to watch 30 minute meals on FoodTv. You'll see what I mean. Something has put the idea in our minds that everything talkes a long time if you don't pay to have it partially done for us, and it's just not true. Sure, you can't make your own bread every day and still have a full time job, but that's not what I mean.
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4_Legs_Good Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-27-04 07:18 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. My elementary school cafeteria food was gawd awful...
so I definitely know where you're coming from, but I'm talking (as a crazed tax and spend liberal) about hiring world class chefs to take over the food programs at public schools and find a way to make good, nutritious food that kids actually will eat. It's gotta be possible.

Pizza isn't necessarily that bad - it's Pizza Hut pizza in schools that bugs me more than anything.

I'm a vegetarian so "to cut the chicken legs apart to make thighs & drumstix" grosses me out, but the point is well taken. You're right, it doesn't take an insane amount of time to do a lot of your own cooking, and you're right that we've got it in our heads that things have to be effortless, and for that we should really get a bit more dicipline to find better stuff to eat.

Anyway, you raise some great points, and I think we could all learn from them...

But Corporate America is still evil! ;)

david
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donco6 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-27-04 09:04 PM
Response to Reply #18
29. One of my hats is to supervise the Nutrition Services Dept.
here at my school district.

"but I'm talking (as a crazed tax and spend liberal) about hiring world class chefs to take over the food programs at public schools and find a way to make good, nutritious food that kids actually will eat. It's gotta be possible."

Well, maybe. Except that the meal can only cost $2.19. That's the amount we get reimbursed for kids who qualify for free meals. So if we provide meals that cost more than that, we have to subsidize the food service program with general fund revenues, which are already in tight supply.

I don't think people realize how far we have to make every penny stretch to provide what we do provide. Sure, we could bring in Taco Bell (over my dead body), but then the free lunch kids would be singled out again, as they wouldn't be able to afford to pay for that.

I honestly don't think it's a matter of having "world class chefs". It's a matter of having leadership at the federal level that's willing to fund the program so that we can provide world class meals.

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4_Legs_Good Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-04 11:22 AM
Response to Reply #29
40. Thank you!
For doing what you're doing, and that's for the inner insight as well.

What I meant when I said that we need to get world class chefs, is that money can't be allowed to be a limiting factor. So $2.19, etc. be damned. If that's the limiting factor, then, as you say, we need to have vast changes which allow real money to be spent, and if the chefs is part of the equation then so be it.

Anyway, thanks again and keep fighting the good fight and cooking the good food!

david
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donco6 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-04 05:55 PM
Response to Reply #40
41. Wow, (blush) thanks!
Honestly, folks, we really do try. But I'm being asked to make bricks without straw here.

Here's some things we've already done, though, to try to cut down on high fat foods:

No pop in any elementary or middle school.
Pop machines off at lunch at high school.
Formed a citizen group to review items sold at lunch (ala carte). Agreed on reduced fat, baked chips, eliminated foods with no nutritional value.
No deep fat fryers in any school.
Introduced more produce - salad shakers, chef salads, vegetable paks, etc.
Introduced more fruit - all meals served with both sliced fruit and juice item.
All meals averaged over a week have 30% or less fat content, and analyzed for 25% of several other nutrients.

Sure, we'd serve broccoli every day, if I thought there was a chance in hell kids would eat it. So we sneak in the nutrients in other ways.

We're changing as best we can.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-04 02:34 AM
Response to Reply #12
39. That should be a conservative value
Seriously, wholesome nutritious food, made from real ingredients. In rural America, that's mom and apple pie values. The very idea of serving fast food to school kids, appalling. That's where we get lost in this country, so often the people actually agree; but some group or other gets brainwashed, then it gets politicized, then people are arguing the talking points instead of using their good common sense. Did you see where this link argued that diet soda is better than juice because it has no calories???? Wow. But the Republicans will turn it into a frivilous law suit - free market issue and parents who would otherwise choose apples over Snickers will fight for freedom of food choice in the schools. *sigh*
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sendero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-27-04 07:10 PM
Response to Reply #7
17. Exactly....
... the fact is - the reason greasy oversized food is what you get at McDs et al is because that is what people BUY. If people BOUGHT healthy food, there would be a profit in it and corporations would be falling all over themselves to sell it.

Blaming the obesity problem on McDs is beyond stupid.

Don't like abortions? Don't have one. Don't like crap food? Don't eat it.
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4_Legs_Good Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-27-04 07:24 PM
Response to Reply #17
21. Ahh, but I *do* like crap food!
I've been conditioned to like it. I've seen it advertised everywhere I look my whole life.

People can deny the mind-numbing effects of all this stuff, but it's true; if it wasn't they wouldn't do it.

Personal responsibility has to enter in, but it is 100 x harder than it should be because of the diabolical practices of these corporations! I'm glad I'm not saying this on FreeRepublic.com or I'd probably get banned!

Anyway, this is the world we live in so we gotta figure out how to deal with it, and in the end it does come down to our choices.

david
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Nikia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-27-04 08:29 PM
Response to Reply #7
27. Well, I read a book on saving time that might explain it
It was a bit of a humor book, but one of the major points was that time is money. Its advice was to think of even your leisure time as being worth your hourly wage. Someone who makes $12/hour is still makes a dollar every 5 minutes. Someone making $36/hour makes $3/minute. The book advised that you should mtake this into account when making cost vs time saving decisions. If you think about it, that explains a lot. Those preprepared items don't really seem that much more expensive when you look at it that way.
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Eloriel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-04 12:14 AM
Response to Reply #7
34. And who cooks in your family, napi? n/t
Edited on Tue Sep-28-04 12:15 AM by Eloriel
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AP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-04 12:24 AM
Response to Reply #7
35. The food industry is in best position to know what poisons are in food...
...they're selling, and are, in fact, battling with the FDA everyday to prevent regulations that require them to disclose what's really in their food.

I blame the industry.
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Pithlet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-27-04 08:36 PM
Response to Reply #4
28. It's simple
All children born from the 1970s on have an automatic McDonald's detector in their brains.

Seriously, though, that shows just how insidious their advertising techniques are. It's almost impossible now to shelter children from it completely. You'd pretty much have to throw out your TV, home school them, and never let them out of the house or have contact with other kids. And, even then, they would probably find a way to get to them.

A few weeks ago we were at the mall, and the whole place was crawling with NeoPets stalls and competitions. NeoPets was specifically designed as a vehicle for advertising directly to children. No, I'm not just talking about a show that merchandises, and shows ad breaks. They all do that, now. NeoPets was a website created by merchandisers with games for children to play and that also show them advertising simultaneously. On the surface, it looks like just any other kid's entertainment. Thankfully, my 3 year old showed absolutely no interest in any of it, but that won't last long.
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MisterP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-27-04 05:55 PM
Response to Original message
6. Consumer Freedom is an AEI/industry group
about as credible as Ahmed Chalabi or the NY Post.
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Cronus Protagonist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-27-04 06:04 PM
Response to Original message
8. Fat chance!
Couldn't resist it.

"So I don't worry about, and people shouldn't
worry about a draft. . . I think we're in good
shape, I really do. And, if not, we'll -- I'll address
the nation
. But I don't see any need to right now."

- G. W. Bush (Source: The Whitehouse)


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HEIL PRESIDENT GOD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-27-04 06:07 PM
Response to Original message
9. We should be focused on labeling and standards
The fight's about keeping "organic" meaningful--on every level.

Our best hope of social change is a consumer revolution against shitty food.
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Deja Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-27-04 06:21 PM
Response to Reply #9
13. If people cared enough & bothered to find and read what's in a McCoronary
sandwich in the waiting queue, they'd turn around and leave.
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paulpaul Donating Member (7 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-27-04 06:09 PM
Response to Original message
10. Fat kids parents fault so why not sue them?
Having kids is still an act of selfishness so yes governments have every right to sue parents for misbehaviour of kids or for kids being fat etc. Babies are born beautiful. Parents screw them up later.
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donco6 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-27-04 06:45 PM
Response to Original message
14. They say there's no link between pop and obesity??!
Common sense alone tells me this can't be true.

I'm no fan of suing everyone, but to suggest that we should not be concerned about public health is taking an ostrich-like stand. Left to their own devices, people can make really lousy choices. What's wrong with putting a little pressure on the megacorps to offer better choices?
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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-27-04 07:00 PM
Response to Original message
15. Food Cop here
I think that some of the cases may have merit. The fast food and soft drink corporations consult child psychologists and use all sorts of techniques both subtle and blatant to hook kids on their unhealthy and sometimes dangerous products. It's insidious and it's having repercussions in society. Economists call these externalities- costs placed on the rest of us (not to mention afflictions on the kids, who lack self defense mechanisms against this sort of marketing).

I'm all for these corporations paying their share in return for the profits they reap.

Flame away.. but I gotta go to class, so I won't be able to respond- for about six hours...
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sendero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-27-04 07:19 PM
Response to Reply #15
19. Advertising....
... affects all of our lives in many many ways. It preys on our insecurities, our dreams, our self image.

After you figure out what we are going to do about fast food companies, tell me what we are going to do about the beer companies, car companies, vitamin companies, fat-loss pill companies, cheezy exercise machine companies, donut companies, computer companies, power tool companies, motorcycle companies, auto leasing companies, etc, etc, etc, etc.

Advertising is legal. A lot of it is horrible, but people need to learn to not get sucked in. There is not a legislative solution to every problem in this world.
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napi21 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-27-04 07:22 PM
Response to Reply #15
20. Any business tries to manipulate your desires, of course you're right.
That goes for any product...perfume, brand of asprin, toothpaste, stock brokerage, well, you get it.

You mentioned kids having the lack of self defense mechanisms. Look at what is done with the topy industry! Very few if any toys actually do what the comercial say they will.

I still don't think you can blame food companies for kids being fat. There is such a thing as responsibly raising your kids and most parents have given up that responsibility because it's easier to let someone else do it. They now expect theschools to teach everything from sex ed, to morals, and everything in between.

There's a really great word in the english language, and it works quite well in dealing with every dilema in life. The word is NO!

You say it to yourself when you know you shouldn't do something, and you say it to your kids when you know they shouldn't either.
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Sugarbleus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-27-04 07:32 PM
Response to Original message
22. Dupe
Edited on Mon Sep-27-04 07:33 PM by Sugarbleus
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Sugarbleus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-27-04 07:33 PM
Response to Original message
23. Yikes!! Not again....... more meddling.... However,
I'm a granny. My hubby and I both suffer from painful physical disabilities. We are also raising our teen g.son (ugh). G.son is overweight; he will eat us out of house and home if not watched. Eating disorder?? Probably.

G.son does like sports so we encourage him to get with it; his fav is basketball. When the season is in, he slims down.

I read through the posts here; I agree with most. I would NEVER sue anyone over MY choices..........that's STUPID and simply GREED run amok.

In terms of "Fast Food", I've been bitching about what those places serve for years! Let's say I'm out shopping with g.son or family and need a bite to eat. I don't want to offload into a restaurant, I just want something quick so I can take it to the park or the beach and have a pleasant moment away from the crowd. I LOVE the convenience of the drive up window BUT I HATE the Menu. Why in the hell can't they serve a bowl of steamed veggies instead of or in lieu fries? A chicken breast or steamed fish fillet in a paper container instead of a sandwich in a paper container? The equipment is there, it's not that big of a deal. A touch of seasoning--no salt except on demand etc. ?????????

On to school lunches :grr: When I was in school--I know, AGES ago--we were served FRESH, HOT MEALS RIGHT INSIDE THE BUILDING. Everything was FRESHLY MADE ON THE PREMISES. Fresh breads, freshly made meats, veggies, pastas, potatoes, rices etc.. Fresh fruit in huge containers, milk, juices, even desserts. ALL FRESH ON THE SPOT. We could SMELL it cooking all morning. Schools actually had indoor
C A F E T E R I A S! Imagine that! We stood in line, paid our money, picked up a tray and went through the food line as the cooks dished out the goods. NO BURGER KING We'd get to sit INSIDE a real cafeteria or go outside and socialize with our friends while we ate. There were no soda machines until High School. No one was fat. (Of course we also had a full curriculum--full PE in grade school thru high school, as well as music, shop, arts, drama etc..)

When my daughter entered school and continuing to this day, I was SHOCKED to learn they did away with cafeterias per se. The school brought in "prepared" sealed lunches from God knows where...dinky little things, totally unpalatable...and made the kids take these awful things OUTSIDE TO sit with them WHERE EVER they could find a spot---NO TABLES MIND YOU. They had to balance their lunches on their knees even in the rain (under an eave)

Now, Grandson is in an alternative school where there are NO lunches at all. I can pack him a lunch or he has to go around the corner to a fast food joint. He's a big guy and not too keen on brown bagging it..but that's another story. So...........WTH???

Finally, as an aging, disabled adult, I cannot stand up to cook like once I could. Convenience foods are sometimes the only way we get anything to eat on time. When I was working full time, raising this child and taking care of a disabled spouse, I had ZERO energy to come home, do the laundry, go shopping, wash dishes, peel potatoes, roast meats, chop, dice and blah blah blah, AND help with homework etc. IT'S JUST TOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO MUCH. I'm only one person and have only so much energy. So, I thank GOD for convenience foods, though I do look for things with more nutrition and less additives these days for our general health. I often take convenience foods and "spike" them up a bit--add a little flair of my own to give it more nutrition or mileage, if you will.
So, with our PARTICULAR situation, if it weren't for convenience foods, the public would have to pay LOADS more money to have meals on wheels or an aid to come out here to COOK FOR US. See, it's six of one and half dozen of the other.

NO ONE SHOULD EVER TELL OTHER'S HOW TO LIVE UNLESS THEY'VE WALKED IN THEIR SHOES FOR AWHILE. We are the same but as different in our circumstances as the sands of the sea. That is all.
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napi21 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-27-04 08:10 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. Sugarbleus, you have a somewhat unique situation.
When I critized people for being lazy, I'm talking about lots of people my husband waites on every day, who are in fine health, and just can't be bothered doing anything themselves if they can pay for someone else to do it for them. They sell chopped green peppers and chopped onions for goodness sake!

An example of lazy and fast food places, my DIL is a great example! She insists on taking her 2 kids to McD, or Burger King, etc, 3 times a week, because they like it, and it's easy. Then of course, she complains that she has no money, and has no idea why not.

She is the norm instead of the exception. BTW, she doesn't work, and her husband makes a mere $75,00 a year. How Can a family survive on such a pawltry sum? (sarcasm)
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Sugarbleus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-27-04 11:59 PM
Response to Reply #24
31. LOL--->"a mere $75,00 a year".....I see your point... thanx eom
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faithnotgreed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-27-04 09:21 PM
Response to Reply #23
30. right you are. sometimes we have to make hard choices
and some convenience foods in the grocery store are healthy and much more so than those coming from fast food restaurants.

clearly not everyone is as aware and responsible as you are!

youre doing a great job and i wish your family health & happiness
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Sugarbleus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-04 12:03 AM
Response to Reply #30
32. Awww, thank you. I appreciate your kind sentiments
We're hanging in the best we can. Best wishes back at ya :)
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Eric J in MN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-27-04 08:13 PM
Response to Original message
25. "Consumer Freedom" is sponsored by Phillip Morris. Don't believe it (nt)
nt
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UdoKier Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-04 12:13 AM
Response to Original message
33. The PIRGs that warn of dire consequences of eating movie popcorn...
..can be rather extreme, and even push dodgy data because of an ideological agenda,

BUT...

groups like "consumerfreedom.com", obvious front groups - are even more suspect in their motivations.

I would take the latest study saying that a morning coffee will kill you and a peanut butter and hone sandwich before bed will cure cancer with a grain of salt.

When the bulk of reasearch by a large number of researchhers over many years consistenly yields the same results, better to follow their advice.

Anyone doubt anymore that cigarrette smoking is BAD NEWS?

PS - Dontcha just love those folks who work out, eat everything organic, watch their weight, lecture you about your dietary habits - AND SMOKE?! LOL
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Hello_Kitty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-04 12:34 AM
Response to Original message
36. My views are fairly libertarian in this area
I realize that the Consumer Freedom outfit is a corporate front group so I wouldn't support them but I do believe that adults should have the personal freedom to make their own choices, good or bad. I can't really speak to the kids issue since I don't have any. Some posters in this thread claim that suing food makers and policing peoples' eating is a good thing because of the consequences to their health and the cost to society. I think that is similar to paternalistic arguments used by the pro-life, homophobic, anti-feminist Religious Right to justify its crusade to impose its brand of morality on American citizens.

Plus, why are we in the U.S. so enamored of the idea of living to be 100? It's like an obsession with us. Personally, I'd rather indulge in a few bad habits and die a little early than live a monastic life to buy myself 10 extra years in a nursing home. I do think Americans consume too much crap and exercise too little, and would do well to emulate the diet and activity levels of Europeans and Asians. But I don't think you can legislate it.
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Eloriel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-04 01:28 AM
Response to Original message
37. I have a way different view than you "libertarians"
because of my recent personal experience.

In short, our whole food supply sets us up for poor health and for making even poorer food choices directly as a result of that poor health. Frankly, that needs to end, and if it starts with lawsuits against the fast food industry, so be it.

Here's where I'm coming from: A little over 3 months ago I started on the South Beach Diet, which was originally developed by a cardiologist (Arthur Agatston) for his patients, to help them address their cholesterol, blood pressure, obesity and insulin resistance.

It was created with several principles in mind. The diet had to be easy to follow and STAY ON for a long time (unlike Atkins, Ornish, Pritikin). It had to not allow hunger or a feeling of deprivation. And, of course, it had to be healthy.

In his book Agatston discusses in lay terms the underlying blood chemistry and physiology of how people become overweight, and in a nutshell it's by eating the S.A.D. -- Standard American Diet (tho he doesn't use that term). Sugar, white flour and other highly processed foods cause too quick a rise in blood sugar. The pancreas pumps out a surfeit of insulin, and over time the cells become "insulin resistant," which is a precursor of adult onset diabetes. This makes the pancreas pump out even more insulin which eventually amounts to overkill for the job at hand and then you have a blood sugar "crash" (more about that in a minute). Further, the body can't convert all that excess glucose into energy, so must store it somewhere (hint: in your fat cells!), and some of it roams around in our bloodstreams (primarily as triglycerides).

Because of the way the excessive blood sugar and excessive insulin work, we end up hungry sooner (that blood sugar "crash" from an excess of insulin) and, perversely, we crave the very things that caused the problems in the first place. It's a vicious cycle. And these cravings are very real -- so real that calling for "better food choices" is something of an insulting, sick joke. (Ask me how I know -- or better yet, read on.)

On the very first day of the SBD, I lost my cravings for the bad foods (for some people it takes a little longer than that, but the diet is constructed in such a way that you are supposed to lose your cravings for junk food within the first 2 weeks, esp. if you don't cheat). And when I say I lost my cravings, I mean I didn't even THINK of the wrong foods and if I did (several days later) it was just to marvel at how they didn't interest me in the least. The diet is constructed in such a way as to maintain fairly even blood sugar levels through a combination of plenty of protein and low-glycemic index foods (certain vegetables, fruit, and whole -- not highly processed -- grains). And it works. (I've lost 31 lbs. at the 13 week point, btw, even including a 3-4 week plateau.)

Now, 2 of the 3 of us in my family are eating much more healthfully, but that requires a considerable commitment in time for cooking and food prep, and it's also QUITE a bit more expensive. I think we've probably doubled our food bill, though that's difficult to track since our shopping is sporadic, as opposed to one day a week, and we shop in several different places for different kinds of foods - reg. grocery store, farmer's market, and healthfood store.

High quality protein including cheese is expensive, fresh fruits and vegetables are expensive -- and we are eating a LOT of vegetables and fruit, and of course healthfood store items are more expensive as well, as compared to the S.A.D.

All of this should actually tell you something about why so many poor people are "fat." Eating healthfully -- really healthfully -- costs a lot more (something like a small fortune) and takes a lot more time. Even most (if not all) condiments and sauces have sugar in them. (We SBDers have to either do without catsup, mustard, most salad dressings, and even hoisin and teriyaki sauce or make our own.) It should also tell you something about why there's an "epidemic of obesity" in our country (with more and more processed foods filled with the kinds of ingredients that dirctly contribute to this "vicious cycle" problem), AND why our more and more of our children are overweight. Everything you can put your hands on is riddled with sugars of various kinds (maltose, dextrose, fructose, etc.), processed white flour, hydrogenated fats, all no-no's on the SBD because they all help create cravings for more of the same.

I remember when my son was about 3 or 4 (30 years ago, now), licking the spoon after making HIM a pb&j sandwhich and being astounded (and appalled) at how SWEET it was. I looked at the list of ingredients, and sure enough, they were now adding sugar!! WHY??????? Now I know why. Not only does it "taste" better (so people and kids want more), it creates cravings for more of the same -- more sugar, more junk food (and I do consider commercial brand peanut butter a junk food now), more fat.

For all my adult life I've read books and articles by healthfood advocates and alternative health practitioners which claimed that white sugar and white flour are "poison." I now understand why they made that claim.

For any of you reading this who are overweight, have blood pressure and/or cholesterol issues, you too are the victim of the S.A.D. And those of you who don't can go right ahead and feel all superior that we just haven't made the "right food choices," but the simple truth of the matter is that for a very large percentage of Americans (those whose genetic and/or metabolic make-up makes us vulnerable to falling into the S.A.D. vicious cycle trap), it's nigh on impossible to MAKE the right food choices when the right foods simply aren't available without considerable "investment" in time and money. And the blood sugar crash/food cravings cycle is NOT to be scoffed at.

But let me be clear: I don't blame the food industry for "my" problems, I blame the food industry for America's problems with weight, blood pressure and cholesterol, adult onset diabetes, and no doubt numerous other health issues. Thankfully, I now have the tools I need now to take appropriate responsibility for my own health, but not everyone does. People shouldn't have to buy the right goddamn book in order to avoid falling into (or to get help getting out of) the trap laid out for us by the people who put sugar in peanut butter and everything else they can think of, strip our foods of valuable nutrients to make them shelf-stable for nearly forever in the name of profits, and adding dangerous chemicals to our foods (nevermind that the FDA calls these "safe"), etc.

As I said, this has to stop somewhere. If suing the fast food industry is the beginning of people waking up to what is and isn't healthy, and the food industry being held accountable for their contribution to America's poor health, so be it.
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