What Do You Think of Terry Shiavo case?

[MaryH]

That's the woman in Florida with permanent brain damage and her husband wants to remove the feeding tube.

I don't really understand this one, I guess.

If the parents don't want the tube removed they should just petition to become her Guardian and then they can take care of her.

Why should any one person have to make that decision if family members are in disagreement?

Now, if the family wants the feeding tubes removed but the government is the one objecting, then I would look at it differently.

[loveable liberal]

1. she's got no brain function

she is using up valuable resources. Im sorry but she's not coming back. I would want my family to pull the plug.

[Cheswick2.0]

8. she is taking up valuabl;e resources? HUH?

She's taking a few cans of canned liquid nutrition and some water. She could be at home with her parents and have private duty nursing/aids. What resources is she taking up?

[The empressof all]

22. Valuable Resources Argument

This is a very frightening argument. In this vein we might as well just kill folks with terminal conditions or Dementia/Alzheimer's (after all they wouldn't know anyway).

The case for discontinuing life support here is her voiced wishes to her husband not to be kept alive.

It is certainly a strong reminder for us to discuss our wishes with as many family members who could be involved in these kinds of decisions and to remember to make a living will.

[Mike Daniels]

52. Given that the husband may be responsible for her condition....

I don't know that I'd take his word for anything that wasn't written in stone.

I've read that there is some suspicion that the husband may have assaulted her through choking and therefore be responsible for her present state.

Not going to go search through tons of articles (don't have the time) about this case to find the relevant segments but I saw this point brought up here as well right after Jeb stepped in.

[carpetbagger]

72. How do you choke someone to make their potassium go down?

I think that only happens in Swift Boat Veterans for Truth/right wing radio land.

Terry Schiavo had a cardiac arrest precipitated by hypokalemia(low potassium), or so it's said (including in the malpractice trial that ruled the doctors were negligent in not detecting and correcting this appropriately).

[951]

60. So simply put shes a real-life zombie?

[janx]

75. I don't know that I'd put it quite that unkindly--

Let's just say that the lights are on, but nobody's home. And her parents keep insisting that there's somebody there, but there isn't. It's heart wrenching.

[Cheswick2.0]

2. The parents have petitioned the government for her custody

Her husband will inherit lots of money if she dies. If he divorces her and allows her parents to take custody, he loses the money.

[vi5]

4. If I'm in that situation...

I'd want nothing more than for my wife to put me out of my misery and get our life insurance money. She should. She is my wife. I would want her to move on with her life and enjoy things in a way that she could not if she had to take care of me 24-7 and drain our resources. Why would that be so hard to understand?

[Cheswick2.0]

9. you are not her and he has no documentation nor has he taken care of

her for years. We are not talking life insurance here, we are talking a big court settlement he won because he was going to take care of her for life and provide therapy.

PS..He has no proof of her wishes and she is not brain dead.

[janx]

19. That money is almost gone, Ches.

And the reason he stopped therapy was that it was pointless because her cerebral cortex is gone.

I've been furious at the Florida legislature and Jeb Bush for stepping into a medical/personal matter the way they did. The law they pushed through was recently (finally) declared unconstitutional.

[BOHICA06]

20. That's what he and his lawyer said!

.... no third party confirmation

[janx]

64. Here is what the Schindlers' lawyer said last night:

KING: David, if they're willing to do this and Michael's not in this for any -- there's no more money to get, right?

GIBBS: That's correct. All the money's gone.

http://www.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0409/27/lkl.00.html

[Cheswick2.0]

40. the bank records are not available

But before they became unavailable it was noted that hundreds of thousands had been spent on the lawyers fighting for his right to let her die....instead of for her treatment. Truth is that her husband had stopped treating her 10 years ago.

Her cerebral cortex is not gone. Doctors disagree with each other on whether or not she responds or can swallow.
You should know that the Lawyer Shiavo is using is on a right to die crusade.

[vi5]

33. Are they still legally husband and wife?

That is the bottom line. I don't want a legal precedent set that says my parents can override my wife's wishes.

I'm not trying to say this guy (her husband) is 100% pure of thought or what have you. But the fact is if he is legally her husband, he should have final say.

Whatever else this tells us, it should tell each and every one of us to make sure we have a living will that reflects our wishes in the event of this happening to us.

[Cheswick2.0]

42. no that is not the bottom line...how bizarre for you to say so

Did you know that x-rays show she had multiple signs of physical abuse?

[vi5]

49. From what I've read about this case...

There is just as much evidence for the husband as against him, and the evidence against him is coming almost exclusively from the parents.

Again, I don't think either of us know the situation first hand beyond what we read and whatever personal biases we bring into it.

But I'm telling you if I were in that situation and my parents tried to override the legal and emotional bond I have with my wife, or my in-laws tried to do the same thing, I would be livid and it would go against everything my marriage is founded on. That is therefore what I judge my reaction and opinion on this case to. And like all cases I worry about what legal precedent they set. My care, and ultimately my fate rests in the hands of my wife. If I didn't want that to be the case we would be divorced. If they are not or were not divorced, and there is not full evidence from a variety of sources (other than her parents) that say that their marriage was in shambles or unhappy, then my opinion remains the same.

[Pithlet]

78. I agree. All any of us has

is what the media has told us, and how it has been spun.

This was between Terry, her family and her husband. They disputed, and the court made a ruling. That should have been the end of it. Jeb Bush had no business stepping in, and anything that any of us say based on what we've seen and read in the media is speculation.

If my husband told me that he didn't want to live that way, and something happened, and the doctors told me he's a vegetable, I should be able to see that his wishes are met, and if the court agrees with me, that should be it. It is no one outside of the family and the court's business. It isn't the business of any advocacy group with an agenda of their own to spin. It isn't the business of the Governor with his political agenda.

I feel for the family, and I feel for her husband, and I feel for poor Terry, who is very possibly living in this condition against her wishes. But, only she knew that, and her husband that she was still with at the time her condition precipitated contends he knew it, and the courts agreed with him. Aside from her family - who have a right to contest it - and the courts, everyone else should just butt out.

[LisaL]

15. I don't think he would inherit anything, actually.

He spend all the award money he was supposed to use for her care on lawyers who are trying to have her feeding tube removed.
This guy is a real "prince".

[Peregrine]

30. There is no money left to inherit

Terry's estate is gone. It has been used for her care and the legal battles.

That argument is just a red herring put out by her parents. There is no money, just debt. There is actually more evidence that the parents wanted guardianship in order to gain control of Terry's estate.

Her husband said that Terry verbally said she did not want to be cared for like this and that was supported in a trial by friends of terry. The court felt there was sufficient evidence saying that she would not want to continue in a vegitative state to decide in favor of the husband's wish to remove the feeding tube. Third party doctor after third party doctor have diagnosed her as being in a vegitative state with no brain function except for autonomic functions.

The family has even accused her husband of attempted murder. They have fabricated evidence and violated court orders.

[shawn703]

58. Not about the money

It's about his wife's wishes. If you were in this situation and your spouse told you she wanted you to let her die if this happened, would you honor her wishes or would you force her to live an existance she did not want just to make her parents happy?

I don't know about you, but I would fight tooth and nail to make sure my wife's wishes were fulfilled. I know her better than her parents do and there's no way I'd just divorce her and wash my hands of it.

[vi5]

3. If I'm married, my wife should make my decision and vice versa..

Nobody should know my wishes and intent more than my wife. My parents, much as I love them and trust them, ceased having a say in my ultimate life decisions once I turned 18.

It's the same theory by which if something happened to me, much as I love my parents, it would be my wife who would make decisions regarding our daughter and not my parents.

If I'm that brain damaged that I can't communicate or care for myself I want my wife to do the same thing that Terry's husband wants to do. If my parents have a problem with that then that is not something they have a say in.

[Cheswick2.0]

12. he has not been her husband for years and they were only married

a very short time before this misfortune. Her parents have cared for her for years while he has not kept to the legal conditions of his guardianship according to the laws of florida.

[RivetJoint]

5. It's up to the husband.

End of story. My wife knows what I want, and i know her wishes. It's our decision, and ours alone. Just like it should be left up to Shiavo's husband in this case.

[MaryH]

10. Hmmm

If I am brain dead I do not want anyone to keep me alive.

But if I hadn't told anyone how I feel about it - maybe I haven't really thought about it - and I go into a coma, who should have the final say?

I'm not married, which may make a big difference. I'm sure my brother and his wife would want to pull the plug as soon as possible, just because they would not want to deal with it.

But what if I have a friend who loves me and wants to care for me? I think they should get custody thru the court and do what they think is best for me.

[Cheswick2.0]

14. she is not brain dead

[MaryH]

17. Have they determined that she has some brain activity?

I was thinking - what about people who have very limited brain activity but they do have some - are we to consider them dead, too?

[Cheswick2.0]

43. if she had no brain activity she would be on life support

she is only on tube feeding. That is not the same thing.

[phylny]

62. I think you need to check your facts.

She is in a persistant vegetative state. Her cerebral cortex - the part that thinks, that allows communication, that allows non-reflexive actions - is gone. The part of her brain that's left is what's allowing her to breathe.

Honestly, folks, there was a huge discussion on this last night here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=2420069

and here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=2420806

Before anyone says information that they "know" to be true, please educate yourselves on the subject.

[RivetJoint]

18. Her Husband HAS "custody"

she made that decision when she married him. He has the final say.

[Cheswick2.0]

44. bullshit

sorry but things change. The fact that she married him in the 80s doesn't negate years of him living with, having children with and being engaged to another woman.

[vi5]

50. If they are not divorced then they weren't married "long ago"..

..they are still married. Period. End of sentence. That's not opinion, or up for debate. If they didn't get a divorce or an annulment, then they are still legally married and he is still her husband.

[Scootman78]

67. The law is the law

If they're married, they're married. It doesn't matter if he has a new girlfriend/fiance or children.

Think about it. Would we even be having this whole discussion if Terri wasn't married to her husband?

[Dookus]

70. There are no degrees of marriage

He is her husband. You don't get to decide which marriages are worthy and which ones aren't.

[liberalnurse]

6. I think it is too late now to cut off the feeding tube.

I respect the wishes but the litigation has impeded a humane death. Now, in her current state of being she is a participating member of that community. She does make a diffrence....it would be wrong now to act on her initial wishes.

[buff2]

7. The husband doesn't want her

so I think the parents ought to have her in their care and make the decisions. Let him get a divorce and respect the parents wishes instead of holding out for the money. He's living with another woman now,why should SHE reap the benefits off another woman's tragedy?

[LisaL]

11. The parents have tried everything but it's not easy

because legally the husband is her guardian and he won't divorce her even though he is living with another woman and has 2 children with her.
This has been going on for years.

[wickywom]

13. That's exactly how I feel about..

Her family should have the right to decide if they choose to take care of her.
I wouldn't let my conscious child slowly starve to death--

[LisaL]

16. Legally, under the law

her husband has all the rights. And he refused to divorce her, so, I think, they will remove her feeding tube again. This will be the third time, I believe.

[wickywom]

21. He's an a- hole.

If a feeding tube is all she needs to survive I don't see how it's an issue.
My God... will she be forced to consciously die of starvation.. will they drug her first so she doesn't suffer?
Why not just euthanize her and get it over with ?

If my child was suffering I would let her go.. if she was unconscious and on machines.. I'd let her go.
This is pretty sick stuff,
I don't like being on Jeb's side.

[LisaL]

24. She can not be euthanized because there are no legal

euthanasia laws in US.
Thus, the only thing that is perfectly legal is to remove her feeding tube and let her starve. I don't actually care if I am on "Jeb's side" of this issue. Who cares? There are millions of other issues that I will not be on "Jeb's side".

[tishaLA]

36. This isn't a case about her husband

It is a case about Ms. Schiavo and her wishes. The Schindler family has expressed that it doesn't know her wishes; Mr. Schiavo asserts that he does know her wishes.

It is worse than being on Jeb's side; you are on Randall Terry's side.

[janx]

68. She won't be forced to consciously die of starvation

because she isn't conscious. See post #46.

[Cheswick2.0]

35. and he won't even let them be with her while she dies

This man should not have custody of this woman just because they were once married long ago for a very brief time.
I agree with you.

[tishaLA]

38. Good.

If I were him, I'd keep them away from the funeral, too. They have allowed their daughter to be used as a pawn by a bunch of wackos like Randall Terry and they ahve accused him of beating her, for example, without any proof. If anyone slandered me like that, keeping them and their unstable cohorts away from my wife would be the least of the many things I'd do.

[lgardengate]

83. She is there child and no one should be able to stop them from

being with her while she dies.Sorry, but IMO that is heartless.There was some suspicious sines that indicated a beating may have happened.
I don't think there is any excuse good enough for his treatment of her family.THey are heartbroken over the state she is in.

[Scootman78]

65. He won't let them be with her because they can't obey the law

They're constantly trying to Terri alive. Why? What good does it do? She's absolutely in no way going to wake up and say, "Hey mom and dad!". That just isn't going to happen, but her parents refuse to believe it. And if by some miracle that did happen, couldn't you imagine what scientists would do to her while she was awake? They'd treat her like a guinea pig (not that she isn't a media guinea pig now).

I say the husband is doing the right thing. Mercy is not just a meaningless word. The parents should learn it. Jeb Bush should learn it. If they believe in God like I'm sure they do, they certainly shouldn't think its natural that its okay to live when a feeding tube is the only thing keeping you alive.

[sui generis]

23. he needs to give custody back to the parents

the finer point of this legal "right to die" case is this: why do we have to "starve" her to death? Why not just give her a lethal injection (if her parents-as-guardian approve).

It's important to note that killing her passively is somehow more permissible than "actively" killing her.

And finally, it shouldn't be up to her husband. If there were no other people volunteering to take care of her, then I would agree that he has the responsibility for making the decision, but that is not the case.

I personally cannot imagine what I would do if my son-in-law pulled the feeding tubes out of my daughter when I had expressed the desire to acquire her guardianship, for those three days that she lay dying.

I actually believe in euthanasia - which is why I think it's wrong to sugar coat this. And, if you don't leave a written will, the state decides where your money goes. Likewise, if you don't leave a written will, your "next of kin" don't get to decide to have you euthanized - that's why we have written wills.

[MaryH]

26. If there is no documentation from a sound patient then

I don't think anyone should have the right to pull the plug. Let alone let the person starve to death.

If I, when I am still in my own mind, determine that I do not want to suffer and decide that I want to take my own life, that is one thing.

But to have someone else decide for me should not be possible.

I think we should not take measures to extend a life that is really already gone. Say, someone in a hospital under a doctor's care and they are only being kept alive by machines.

But I don't think we should have the right to decide for someone else.

[tishaLA]

25. The husband has the final say

she is, at this point, a tool of the religious right, especially Randall Terry, a freak who has too many idiotic ideas to even begin discussing here.

Her parents say she would want to remain alive although they also say they never had a conversation with her about this matter. They say doctors say she has a possibility of recovery, although every doctor assigned to Ms. Schiavo's case by the courts rejects this notion.

This case has been visited by many courts; every one has rejected the parents' claims. It is a classic case about how the religious right believes in the sanctity of marriage until the marriage contract works against their interests, which is to insert themselves into every available orifice, including feeding tubes.

[MaryH]

28. Does she still have brain activity?

Or is she completely brain dead?

[Scootman78]

66. That's where the debate lies

The parents and some doctors say she has brain activity because she shows responses to touch.

The husband and most other doctors say that the responses are actually just reflexes given off by the body and that since there has been no brain activity recorded on any charts since her stroke that put her in this 14-year coma, she is in a sense brain dead.

I know she's not completely brain dead because she can breathe on her own, but that's all she can do. You don't need total brain activity to do that though since only one region of your brain controls your breathing. I remember from my science days that the human brain doesn't regenerate itself. And if it does regenerate in some way, I know it doesn't in a way that Terri's parents hope for.

Theology vs. Medicine.
Compassion For Not Wanting To Let Go vs. Compassion For Mercy
One Way vs. The Other

Its pretty much impossible to be neutral on this issue.

[janx]

71. You're close--

But a heart attack, not a stroke, brought this on, and she isn't in a coma.

Comatose individuals can come out of it. Terri can't.



http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/3141058.stm

[maveric]

27. I work with patients like Terry Shiavo and have seen a similar situation.

A woman, now 40, was in an accident in 1990. She was married at the time and had expressed to her husband that she would never want to live "like a vegetable on life sustaining machinery", before her accident via a living will. Well the crash occurred and she was pronounced brain dead. Zero brain activity. The husband wanted to let his wife go, thus respecting her wishes and fears. In comes the woman's parents who are in total denial. They say that their daughter communicates with them and responds to questions. (She doesn't and cant). They went to court here in San Diego and won guardianship, a condition that bans the husband from ever seeing his wife again.
This woman is not going to leave this facility with a pulse. She is totally dependent, on a ventilator, G-tube (feeding),and constant hygienic care. She is a virtual houseplant and experiences periodic seizures and is subjected to constant tracheal care and suction. The parents come in everyday, read to her, talk to her and decorate her room with republican /christian lore and icons. (Even a picture of Allan Keyes, ewwwww!). They claim that she's really ok and its all getting through. Its NOT!
I feel that this is a form of cruelty to this poor woman whose request was NOT to have to live like this. Like the Schiavo case the parents are in denial and possibly influenced by an outside source.
If you were to see this woman you would feel the same.

[MaryH]

29. What about severly retarded individuals?

What do we do with them? They have no capacity to understand the question.

This can get to be a real sticky wicket.

I can see how doctors worry that the final decision might not be made in the person's best interest.

[ProfessorGAC]

32. The Brain Is Still Functional In Those People

My wife was a progam coordinator for a center that assisted and developed mentally challenged people. The folks ran the gamut from mildly dysfunctional to profoundly challenged.

Not one of them couldn't breathe on their own. Not one of them was unable to digest solid food. Not one of them would have dehydrated because they couldn't tell when they were thirsty.

Your question is a nonsequitur. One has nothing to do with the other.
The Professor

[janx]

34. Severely retarded inviduals still have a cerebral cortex.

They may be slow, but they're way ahead of Terri Schiavo.

[Cheswick2.0]

46. Janx, where is the proof that she has no cerebral cortex

only some of the doctors agree that her brain in non functional but her husband denied her even the simplest treatment such as putting a towel in her hands to keep them it from closing up.

[janx]

54. Here's one of the more comprehensive and objective

articles I found on the subject.



http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/3141058.stm

Cortex 'destroyed'

Mr and Mrs Schindler say their daughter would die slowly and painfully from starvation. Such a death would be a graphic and horrifying thought to most people, but Dr Walker said Mrs Schiavo simply does not feel hunger or thirst.

Mrs Schiavo's brain scans have not been made public but Dr Walker has followed the case closely through media reports and court records.

"The majority of her cerebral cortex - the part of the brain that thinks and feels - has been destroyed and replaced by fluid," he said.

"She doesn't have any perception, there is no reason to believe she can suffer."

(There's much more at this link, and I hope everyone reads the Beeb article.)

It's terrible because the part of her brain that *is* functioning leads people to believe that part of Terri Schiavo is still there. It's a horrible situation.

And I'm still mad as hell that any state government would involve itself in this.

[maveric]

37. The severly retarded dont make living trusts that express

their wishes.

[Cheswick2.0]

45. exuse me but these cases are not the same

Terri is not on life support and she is not brain dead.

[LisaL]

82. It's pretty sad, but do you think this woman feels anything?

And if not, then what harm does it do to give her parents some comfort?

[janx]

31. The government should have *nothing* to do with this. n/t

[annabanana]

41. thank you janx... And God save me from ever having to make

this kind of decision.

[janx]

61. Yeah. God save all of us from having to do it. Living Will.

[phylny]

63. This is why I've gone to my lawyer

in front of my husband and told them what *I* would want - and we have a document to prove it. It takes the responsibility, and any sense of blame, from him and puts it squarely on me so that he can live his life after me knowing he did nothing "wrong" and that he did what I wanted. If I predecease him, I want him to be happy.

[Cheswick2.0]

47. Why shouldn't the government have anything to do with this

The government makes laws to protect citizens. The government has the right and the responsibility to step in and try to determine what is ethical in this case.

[janx]

56. Because politicians are not doctors. It starts getting really

slippery when politicians start making decisions that doctors and families should make. This is one of the most personal decisions families face.

And this thing has been used as a political football. It's all over Freeperland--all the rumors about money, what a prick the husband is, etc. There are so many rumors about the case that I won't even look at anything I don't know to be a very reputable source when trying to get information about it.

Dean was appalled by it, and rightfully so.

It's a terrible situation, a heartbreaking one.

[GodHelpUsAll2]

79. Kind of

like they have the right to "step in" and determine that's it's not "ethical" to have same sex mariages? And how it's not "ethical" to have legal abortion? Shall I go on? I am amazed that anyone, thinks the goverment has any right to "step in" to any private situation. That's what we have laws and courts for. But then again, we did need the government to "step in" and ehtically handle that nasty little situation the people of Florida and the Florida courts had in wanting to count all the votes.

[ismnotwasm]

39. I have been a long-term care nurse

I believe that the patients wishes should be followed to the greatest extent possible, barring that, the legal guardian. That said, I hate to see the disabled denied care or marginalized any more than they already are. BUT my experience with completely disabled people on tube-feedings is that eventually they begin to experience any number of other health care problems, including pneumonia's, infections. If there is no weight bearing, they develop osteoporosis, and are prone to fractures. The atrophied muscles develop painful contractures, the skin if not cared for properly develops pressure sores--especially if incontinent. If a urinary catheter is in place, then it is one infection after another. So the actual food issue, the tube feeding is only one consideration of care, remember, she also gets all her water from the tube-feeding also. I have had tube feeders complain to me of thirst. Oral care is extremely important if they start the cycle of infections and antibiotics, they develop yeasts in the mouth and other places as well as fungus. The most important thing for these folks is good family support and proper medical and nursing care. I believe she is in a nursing home?--I'm not sure of my facts here, but if she is, I can tell you that nursing homes across the nation are scrambling for dollars and staff. Care is often inadequate. No easy answers here. I wish everyone in the nation, starting with the Bush twins, spent time volunteering in nursing homes and places where these people often live out the balance of their lives. A more realistic picture of what care is involved, what suffering is involved, would develop. I have valued each and every one of my patients,and have provided the best care I could. I've learned so much from them, I can't begin to describe it. Yet I wonder, is it right that I learn and grow on the backs of other's suffering? Again, no easy answer, not for me

[Cheswick2.0]

48. The long term care nurses at her nursing home has testified against

her husband, claiming he did not allow them to give her even the most routine of care.

http://www.raggededgemagazine.com/1102/1102ft1.html

Here is the information filtered through a disabled people advocacy web site.

[ismnotwasm]

53. Then the case makes more sense

Each state has different guidelines for nursing homes, some better some worse. I work in Washington state, where they are pretty strict. If a family member was objecting to necessary nursing care, we would report them to adult protection, or get a temporary restraining order if they were causing harm. Every patient is entitled to basic nursing care, and the law says that nurses are required to give it. If not, our licenses are in jeopardy. I for one, would not put up with a family member telling me not to give care, and our laws here say I don't have to. I wonder what Florida law says? My point is more that these folks have intrinsic human value, they still give and receive, if one is open to their gifts. But life and death are personal issues, and the patients actual wishes should be followed as closely as known. The case seemed to go sideways, and was presented as an euthanasia issue. By the way, not to get gross on you guys, but once the tube was pulled the patient would die from lack of water way before lack of food.

[ismnotwasm]

55. And I would be furious with any Doctor

Who thought he was perscibing pain medication "to make the nurses feel better" I caught that on reread, now that is total condescending bullshit. Pain is pain

[carpetbagger]

74. Speech therapy won't work without a speech center of the brain.

Most of Terry Schiavo's cortex is gone. Not damaged, but liquified and resorbed, which is what dead brain does.

I have no damn clue where this "speech" on the edited tapes is coming from. Neither did the courts, who ruled that the Schindlers and their priest failed to make a compelling case to overturn Michael Schiavo's decision that enough was enough regarding pumping formula into his wife in hopes of some miracle.

[janx]

77. Your posts on this subject are very helpful.

This is one of the most aggregious and hideous manipulations on the part of the Florida legislature, the right wingnuts, and Jeb Bush that I ever could have imagined. This situation is so very important, and I don't think most realize the ramifications of what happened and could happen when politicians get into these decisions.

I think the problem is that in the face of this right-wing spin machine, people don't know what the cerebral cortex is or does, and they therefore don't know what they're looking at when they see those very selective clips of what's left of Terri Schiavo. Most people feel guilty looking at her and desperately want to help. Many are very uncomfortable with the fact that there is a human being that can behave reflexively but possess no consciousness.

And then there are people who have relatives who are disabled (as opposed to being in a PVS), who worry that their loved ones might be offed one day. They don't understand what the cerebral cortex is or what PVS is.

[shawn703]

51. Well the problem is

They're in disagreement as to whether or not Terry wanted to live or die if she was ever in this situation. Her husband claims her wish was to die, and out of respect for her he wanted to let her die. If my wife was in this situation I would also make this same decision per her wishes, and I would want her to do the same for me. I would also fight any attempt by anyone else to deny her her wishes. Although we now have living wills because of this case.

[janx]

57. That pretty much defines what's going on. It's such a sad

situation.

[MUSTANG_2004]

59. It's messier than that

In the malpractice lawsuit filed on her behalf, he said he would use the money for her care and treatment. After the award, he said she wouldn't have wanted to live and he started the process to withdraw her feeding tube. There's something very unpleasant about him that makes this case less than clear-cut.

[Dookus]

69. I think she's

a very unfortunate pawn being used by the christian right.

Despite what some people here believe, there are no "degrees" of marriage. Her husband has the right and responsibility to decide. He has said she wanted not to live like this, and there's no evidence to the contrary.

While gutwrenching for the parents, certainly, her husband is the only person who can make this decision.

The idea that her husband beat her, that she's not "really" in a vegetative state, etc., are all arguments taken straight from FreeRepublic.

The government has no business getting involved in this. Personally, I wish we would allow euthanasia in cases like this - I don't see how starving her is preferable to a painless injection.

[janx]

73. I agree with you, Dookus (as you can see from my posts).

And I also wish we would allow euthenasia in cases like this, not because it would make a difference for her--the part of her brain that would notice the difference is gone--but for the people who have to do such a thing. It's going to be much tougher for her husband, family, friends, and caregivers to reckon with removing the feeding tube than it will be for her.

[LisaL]

81. No degrees of marriage?

A man who is living with another woman and has 2 children by that woman shouldn't be considered Terri's husband any longer, no matter how you look at it. Is he a bigamist, because surely his girlfriend is just as good as his wife by now? Well, bigamy is not legal in this country.

[Dookus]

84. yes

he moved on. Terri's dead for all intents and purposes.

Nonetheless, the decision has ALWAYS been his to make. He wasn't living with another woman and having children with her when all this started.

Do you believe he should've remained celibate for life in order to retain his legal rights?

[lgardengate]

76. IMO The husband wants her dead. Parents tried to get....

guardianship but the husband fought them in court.He has a girlfriend he wants to marry and they have kids.The parents have begged to care for her themselvs.The dont want any money from him and they think he caused this by beating her.

Sad situtation

[shrike]

80. Caring for a disabled person is very difficult and expensive

I doubt they'd be able to do it themselves. They'll have to leave her to care facilities, which are money-eating machines. If they are granted guardianship I suspect that in a few years they'll be seeking financial help.

I know two families with disabled members. Though their disabilities are not nearly as devastating as Schiavo's, their care remains a difficult and divisive issue for the families.

In the one instance, a sister has basically given up her life, and any hope for marriage and a family of her own, to help her mother care for her sister. In the other instance, the parents are caring for their son and worry constantly about what will happen to him when they are gone. Tough, tough situation. I wish the Schindlers luck. They're going to need it.