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billbuckhead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-30-04 10:08 AM
Original message
Faux News poll on whether Saddam played a part in 9-11
Do you believe that Saddam Hussein was part of 9/11 attacks on U.S.?

So far 55% of Faux viewers still believe Saddam played a part in 9-11 at 11:00.

This sure is a problem for democracy.
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shawn703 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-30-04 10:09 AM
Response to Original message
1. Why would Fox post a poll like that?
It's just adding more credence to the argument that Fox News viewers aren't very well educated.
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Nicholas D Wolfwood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-30-04 10:10 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. Love that time news cover
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ChocolateSaltyBalls Donating Member (182 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-30-04 10:19 AM
Response to Reply #1
8. I think they post polls like this to see if..............
their message is getting out; to see if the propaganda is actually working.

Apparently, so far so good.
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BlueJazz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-30-04 10:12 AM
Response to Original message
3. 55 Percent!!.....Christ..Every time I start to feel that.........
...maybe....Just Maybe, the American people are not as dumb as a Beach Towel somebody proves me wrong......
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molly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-30-04 10:15 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. All you need to do is listen to the C-Span callers
one basically said this morning that Kerry is wealthy and privleged and * can relate to everyone else. Why don't these people know just exactly how many generations of bushes have been priveleged?
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BlueJazz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-30-04 10:24 AM
Response to Reply #4
10. I used to listen to call-in shows but other folks around me......
...got tired of seeing a grown man Rant/scream/Cry. :)
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molly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-30-04 11:32 AM
Response to Reply #10
15. My cats and dog are used to it
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ecojustice Donating Member (3 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-30-04 10:16 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. UPI Report: Problems with online polling

http://www.upi.com/view.cfm?StoryID=20040928-050716-3788r




The Web: Problems with online polling



By Gene Koprowski
United Press International

Published 9/29/2004 7:38 AM
CHICAGO, Sept. 29 (UPI) -- An online service offers a poll to
its subscribers, asking them whom they prefer for president of
the United States in the Nov. 2 election -- George W. Bush or
John F. Kerry. A sample of 250,000 "votes" is taken
and a landslide is declared for one of the candidates. Is the
poll more accurate than a small sample of public opinion,
interviews with 1,000 people, taken by a behavioral scientist,
over the telephone? 

Probably not, experts told United Press International.Some
forms of online polling are not scientifically sound, and
calling an important presidential election based on the
results of these online surveys -- at least now, in 2004 -- is
risky. The science of statistics and probability is an
important factor in discerning between the soundness and
unsoundness of polls. Moreover, polls are most effective when
they are done randomly, eliminating the chance participants
will game the system, experts told UPI."Randomness is
needed to reduce bias in surveys," J. Michael Dennis,
vice president and managing director of Knowledge Networks
Inc., an online polling firm in Menlo Park, Calif., told UPI.
"There's a big risk with a volunteer panel --
self-selection biases. Those who are on the Internet are
generally more informed about politics than the average
American. That changes the results of the survey."

Frequent online visitors also are more likely to have a higher
income than the general population -- enabling them to afford
the monthly fees to access America Online, Earthlink, and
other Internet Service Providers.That kind of wealth bias in
polling was seen in the 1930s, when telephone polls first were
conducted for a presidential election. "Even with large
sample sizes, like the 250,000 cited in your example, you fall
into the trap that pollsters fell into 70 years ago, with a
sample size more than 10 times that," J. Patrick McGrail,
assistant professor of communications at Susquehanna
University in Selinsgrove, Pa., told UPI. "They failed to
predict the victory of Roosevelt. That's because they used
people who owned a telephone -- an expensive and relatively
rare device back then."

An analysis by RealClearPolitics.com of scientific polls,
taken by leading news organizations, showed President Bush,
for the week Sept. 20-27, holds an average 5.6 percentage
point lead over Kerry in the race for the White House. 

That average is generated by examining polls, such as the CBS
News poll showing Bush beating Kerry 51 percent to 42 percent,
as well as other, closer polls, such as the Fox News poll that
shows the president ahead of the Democratic nominee 46 percent
to 41 percent. Another poll in the mix, conducted by
Investor's Business Daily, shows the race in a statistical
dead heat, at 45 percent for each main candidate, with Ralph
Nader generating 2 percent support."These polls represent
households representative of people across the United
States," Dennis said. "What the pollster has to look
at are factors like age, gender and education. It's also
important to look beyond that -- for attitudes, knowledge and
behaviors -- and to determine if it is representative along
those lines as well. This is a way to bridge the digital
divide online."

Some pollsters have tried to eliminate the online bias by
screening samples of online voters and then randomly selecting
them. Such polls have been used successfully on the Internet
for test marketing and test branding of new products, helping
major companies determine what the best brand strategy might
be for a particular product, or what features to add, or
eliminate, in a new technology.

Knowledge Networks will be using a hybrid online polling
technique Thursday night to poll 200 undecided voters for CBS
News during the course of the first presidential debate.
"These people will take a survey of attitudinal
questions," Dennis said. "We will see where they
stand before the debate. During the debate, we will register
their warmth or coldness toward a particular candidate. That
will be relayed to CBS in real-time for their
analysis."Even with provisions for making the online
surveys random and representative, some experts remain
skeptical."Our feeling is that these polls are just about
worthless, have no accuracy whatsoever," Michael Hamill
Remaley, a director of Public Agenda, a non-profit research
organization in New York City, told UPI. 

A number of experts told UPI they were concerned account
holders at AOL and other online services could create multiple
account names and vote several times with different nom de
plumes."Allowing users to vote only once hardly qualifies
as a proper control," said Dana Harsell, assistant
professor of political science at Hartwick College in Oneonta,
N.Y. "AOL lets its subscribers create many sub-accounts,
so it is possible to vote multiple times on accounts that a
person created for their personal correspondence, their home
office, or even their children." 

Though some online polling techniques might not be scientific
enough for many of these analysts, the technology has proven
quite effective at harnessing other types of public opinion.
On the Democratic National Committee's Web site,
Democrats.org, the DNC notes it has "been conducting a
major petition drive in partnership with MoveOn.org." The
drive, conducted last fall, generated more than 300,000
signatures, and more than 172,000 of them in one, 36-hour
period, the DNC said.In addition to petition drives, there are
other effective techniques to monitor public sentiment online.
Accenture Technology Labs, a unit of Accenture, a consulting
company, has developed a tool that "intercepts and
instantly analyzes" Internet chatter about political
races, new products or proposed public policies, said Ed
Trapasso, a spokesman for Accenture in New York
City."Some tests have shown the tool to be more accurate
than Internet polling," he added.

Pundits are not completely writing off online polling, however
-- just yet. They reckon the technology will be improved with
time. "I wouldn't take the position that online polling
is awful and never going to be any good," John McIntyre,
founder of RealClearPolitics.com, an online political news
site in Chicago, told UPI. "It might be something that
they can figure out in 2006, 2008, or 2012."

--The Web is a weekly series examining the global
telecommunications phenomenon known as the World Wide Web. 

E-mail sciencemail@upi.com




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shawn703 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-30-04 10:17 AM
Response to Reply #3
7. It's not the American people
As much as it is Fox News viewers. The PIPA report from a while back showed 80% of Fox viewers had at least one misperception of the Iraq War.
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The Revolution Donating Member (497 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-30-04 10:27 AM
Response to Reply #3
12. Well 55% of Fox viewers
So don't sweat it. This number might actually be down from what it was in the past. (In Outfoxed, there was a segment showing how uninformed Fox viewers were...I don't remember if this was one of the questions that was shown though) Plus, there are probably some people who answer yes, even though they no its not true, just out of spite or something.

I assume Fox put the poll up to add credibility to the claim. As if the answer was unclear, and they wanted to get people's opinion. The people answering the poll have no fucking clue what goes on in the world outside the USA. How the hell would they know what was going on in Iraq over the last decade or so? They don't have any real information on it. Fox news brings people on who say its true, then the viewers believe it, without having any actual facts or research available to them.

This is just another example of Fox news presenting opinion as news.
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Xipe Totec Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-30-04 10:16 AM
Response to Original message
6. Scary to think that these morans can actually serve as jurors
Edited on Thu Sep-30-04 10:25 AM by Xipe Totec
in some poor dumb fuck's murder trial. :scared:

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nostamj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-30-04 10:22 AM
Response to Original message
9. well, that only means that Cheney knows how to freep a poll... n/t
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Ernesto Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-30-04 10:24 AM
Response to Original message
11. What if Air America ran such a poll?
In other words, consider the source before you get too upset.
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TheFarseer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-30-04 10:28 AM
Response to Original message
13. That's incredibly dishonest
They post that poll like that is up for debate! It's not like an opinion. You can't have an opinion on whether there is gravity or who was awarded the heisman trophy last year! It's hard to believe we have a media outlet that is intentionally spreading wrong information but it's hard to believe bush has poll numbers in double digits too.
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rman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-30-04 10:52 AM
Response to Original message
14. it would be interesting to hear what part they think Saddam played
but that's not a yes/no or multiple choice question, so it probably won't be discussed.
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