Down with Patti Smith!

[Must_B_Free]

I didn't hear yesterday's Randi show, but she says Patti Smith is a real loser. I never really got into her music, but I will be sure not to now. She had Randi in tears because she was supporting Nader.

So the lesson learned is, don't do an interview with a loser, and just because you thought someone was cool by their music, they still may be a big loser.

[Wat_Tyler]

1. Up with Patti Smith.

No, hang on. Down with her. Let's go after musicians who disagree with a radio celebrity on a couple of points. Anything to avoid going after the Bush Administration.

[BurtWorm]

32. Right!

:eyes:

Who cares about art or music anyway?

[krkaufman]

2. *LOVED* the Gilda Radner SNL skit bashing Smith n/t

[thebigidea]

3. Andrea Martin on SCTV did a pretty good one, too.

Still, isn't it kind of tacky to start badmouthing your guest when they leave the building? Sure, mock Nader, shrug, but... "loser"?

[ronnykmarshall]

5. Gimme Mick!

Gimme Mick ... baby's hair .... bulging eyes .... lips so thick!

Are you woman?

Are you man?

I'm your biggest funked up fan.

So rock me.

Roll me.

'till I'm sick.

[krkaufman]

14. Yes, THAT one...!

What a hoot. Thanks for the lyrics. I remembered it had to do with Jaggar, but nothing specific. Thanks.

[el_gato]

4. Whatever

[Forkboy]

6. Up with mindless cheerleading!

[rumguy]

7. Was this an interview, or what?

I do know one thing - Patti Smith is very, very anti-chimp.

[Donkeyboy75]

8. That does it.

I don't want to hear any other points of view from the artists I listen to.

I'm developing a questionnaire to send to all record labels I buy from. I'll have their artists fill them out, and I'll purchase music based on how well their political outlook matches mine. :eyes:

[Wat_Tyler]

12. People Have The Power, Donkeyboy.

[vi5]

9. Let's see...love Patti Smith as a person/artist....

..but hate that she still supports Nader.

Loathe Randi Rhoades as a personality/dj/whatever, but like that she supports Kerry and spreads the word.

What a connundrum.

[Carey46955]

10. Patti Smith is a genius

and has always been one of my heroes. But she's not very savvy politically. She supported Nader in 2000 too. It's very disappointing but it's really no biggie. I doubt she'll sway a lot of votes one way or the other.

[latebloomer]

11. Oh please

Patti Smith is a very good person who has made a lot of contributions. Her heart is in the right place and I'm sure she has reasons for supporting Nader. I didn't hear the interview but Randi can be very dogmatic and harsh, so God knows what happened in their exchange.

[robbedvoter]

13. Here's a detailed account from her board:

(heinrich @ Sep 30 2004, 01:22 AM)
My impressions of Randi's and Patti's "discussion" -- after listening to it three times -- favors Randi. But let's let the facts guide us by looking at the timing of the dialogue in the first nine minutes or so:
First 30 seconds: Patti's music is played
Next 40: Randi praises Patti
Next 20: Randi starts to make a case that the music should have improved after W's war
Next 65: Patti interrupts before Randi can finish her point, and has misinterpreted Randi's point
Next 157: Randi riffs on W selling fear and the takeover of media by corporations
Next 96: Patti makes the point how Iraq infrastructure has been destroyed
Next 29: Randi amplifies Patti's point with specific detail
Next 19: Patti's notes that people are not asking questions.
Next 29: Rand and Patti go back and forth on corporate influence; Patti praises Nader; Randi criticizes Nader
Next 12: Patti rebuts Randi with "That's not true" and "That's a very glib statement"
Next 58: Randi gives her Prada shoe analogy, says Nader had done some great things, but that he's changed.
Next 10: Patti says she doesn't agree and "I don't want to argue with you on your show," to which Randi good-naturedly say's "Oh, come on (giggle)"
At this point, Patti says to Randi "Your point is narrow," accuses Randi of talking 90% of the time, and dismisses Randi with "If you really want to talk to me about Ralph Nader in any meaningful way, we can do it afterwards."
If you add up the amount of time each spoke during the first nine minutes or so, counting 29 seconds where it was going back and forth evenly, you get 261 seconds for Patti and 333 seconds for Randi, which means Patti (and her song) had 44% of the air time and Randi had 56%. This is actually a pretty even balance up to the point Patti accuses Randi of monopolizing 90% of the air time.
Also, the conversation was very civil until Patti said "That's a very glib statement," which is a putdown of Randi. Even then, Randi remained polite.
After Randi, in all good humor, encouraged Patti to argue the facts, Patti returns with "Your point is narrow," which is again an insulting putdown to Randi, and then the "If you really .. . in any meaningful way .. ." which is downright rude and condescending to Randi.
Up to this point, Randi had been very agreeable and very open in allowing Patti to make her point.
After this, the gloves were off and I think Patti's stonewalling and refusal to engage in the debate reflects poorly on her. Yes, Randi got passionate and probably stayed on the Nader point too long. But she had every justification. Patti should have done her homework before coming on the show, and should have been more polite.
http://forum.therandirhodesshow.com/index.php?s=8de9daab1ceecdf0f890b44b8caa4ab2&act=ST&f=22&t=25672&st=225&

[Wat_Tyler]

17. Well, if some guy on the internet says it, I'm convinced.

Let's burn the witch.

[Rooktoven]

34. I heard the exchange

robbedvoter has it correctly laid out.

For the record I love Patti Smith, but she came off as naive and defensive. Why go on a political show if you can't/won't articulate your views?

[fob]

28. Patti kept saying she wasn't going to discuss it becasue Ralph was a dear

friend, and Randi said "This is a political show. That's what we discuss here". If Patti is so emotionally attached to be unable to even hear criticism, she shouldn't have come on a political talk show. If it was ayone else Randi would have chewed her up and spit her out. Patti had an opportunity to give reasons to support Nader, and instead just punked out.

Before anyone responds, this is only MY opinion, I have heroes that I wouldn't be able to discuss rationally either, so if Patti is like that to you, don't flip out on me too bad.

[ronnykmarshall]

15. Watch your mouth!

I like her when she was in Scandal!

[thebigidea]

16. wrong Patti.

[AlCzervik]

18. thats patty smythe

not to pick nits.

[ronnykmarshall]

19. Ohhhhhhh

That's very different.

Never mind.

[AlCzervik]

20. lol!

God Gilda Radner was funny. Thank You Cheddar Cheese.

[democraticinsurgent]

21. patti is one of my heroes

and of course she's "wrong" on Nader. But her music and poetry are truly insightful, stirring and original.

So, she's got a different viewpoint than most of us do re: Nader. Let her be. She's done more to raise our collective consciousness than most of us could ever dream of.

"People have the power to dream, to rule, to wrestle the earth from fools..."

- Patti Smith

[yardwork]

23. I think we expect too much from artists and too little from everybody else

Patti Smith is an artist who creates interesting and thought-provoking music and lyrics. I don't ask her to be an expert on economics.

I'd be grateful if my elected officials were expert on economics, or at least listened to unbiased experts.

[pelagius]

26. Most artists, writers, and musicians...

...that matter have a point of view that is "out there" in one or more ways. The quality in their art that speaks to us doesn't necessarily have anything to do with pragmatic politics.

If they talk politics and make sense, by all means, listen. But if they don't, just turn up the music and enjoy!

[Nomad559]

22. Image of Patti Smith

[jdsmith]

24. I sure as hell will drop Randi Rhodes before I'll drop Patti Smith

[benburch]

25. You can hear that interview at White Rose

http://www.WhiteRoseSociety.org/

I found it very hard to listen to; I adore both Randi Rhodes and Patti Smith, and to hear them get into a shouting fight on the air was not a happy experience for me.

Patti you must understand is an idealist, not a realist, and Randi should have realized this and let the matter drop, but Patti should be able to see that Nader is not helping the progressive cause one bit with his current efforts.

I was disappointed in both of them.

[SemperEadem]

33. patti smith should not have come on a political talk show

it's no secret to the world that Randi Rhodes hosts a lively political talk show. Her views about nader are no secret. This wasn't the "Mark and Brian Show". For Smith to go on a political talk show unprepared for a political discussion about nader and when painted into a corner, instead issued condesention in lieu of solid facts to back up her points was plain stupid. Rhodes demolished her artifical construct.

I wouldn't ever put myself in the line of fire with no way to back up my views except declaring "you're too narrow-minded"-I'd be inviting scorn and it'd be deserved. Smith didn't do her homework. Shame on her for stepping willingly on the mine.

PBS aired a doc the other night on the independent political movement in this country.. and it featured nader whining about not being on the ballots and how he's being railroaded out of the process.

[milkyway]

27. I loved her since I first heard her sing on Horses, "Jesus died for

somebody's sins but not mine."

That album changed my worldview. I was a naive 19 yr old and had never heard anything like it before. I couldn't even listen to the second side right away...I had to take a break and go watch some television, something familiar and comfortable, to get over the shock of the first side. It took me an hour before I could get up the nerve to go back upstairs and listen to the second side.

Many DUers agree with Patti and other Nader supporters on many things, including their longterm vision of this country. The difference is that Nader supporters are still thinking long-term, while many of us (including myself) have decided that it's more important to take smaller steps in the short-term--bush is too dangerous. Don't be too harsh on Patti because she hasn't made this leap yet. It's just a disagreement on tactics. She's still wants the same things many of us do.

[Wat_Tyler]

29. Down with bitching about artists because they disagree with us!

Down with doing that, because it makes us no better than freepers.
Down with wasting our time on witch hunts when the enemy is the Bush Administration.
Down with knee-jerk over reactions.
Down with manipulating what people have said to suit our worldview.

[crispini]

30. Oh please.

I heard the interview. The only thing I felt I could ding Patti Smith on was that she obviously hadn't listened to the Randi Rhodes show before she went on it, because otherwise she would have known that THAT'S WHAT RANDI DOES. Randi is an obnoxious wench with a big mouth and a particular point of view. Since I am also an obnoxious wench with a big mouth and a particular point of view, I happen to enjoy her, but I LIKE A GOOD FIGHT.

Couldn't care less about Patti Smith's politics, and I felt bad for her because she really kind of did get her feelings hurt by Randi, but OTOH, you should really find out what kinda show you're going on before you go on it. Randi's a fireball.

The funniest part of the whole thing was that obnoxious right-wingnut OTHER talk show host (I didn't get his name) who called in immediately afterwards to tell Randi that Patti had cleaned her clock. Ha! Right. Patti nearly stormed out of the studio. Boy, Randi really ripped HIM a new one.

Ya don't wanna get a little down and dirty, don't go on Randi.

[Touchdown]

35. That would be Lars Larsen.

The 4'9" "libertarian" (read: selfish, arrested developed adolescent, who packs lead in his pants before he goes on the air in a private and locked studio, out of Portland. Pretty ugly too...

[Adenoid_Hynkel]

31. maybe you can get clear channel to ban her music

or you can get some of your friends together and you can run over her cds with a tractor

how dare she have an opinion different from yours!

if you like boycotting leftists, you might enjoy this site:
www.freerepublic.com

and was there really anyone out there who didn't know after four years of appearances alongside nader, that she was supporting him?

[knowbody0]

38. onward marching tward algiers

she is anti war. she is truth

[FlemingsGhost]

36. Sometimes, I'm embarrased to be a part of this community.

Funny, it usually happens when I run across a thread like this one.

Then, I remember that everyone is entitled to their opinion, regardless of the run-away emotion and misdirected hostility driving the message.

There. All better, now ...

[Dookus]

37. nobody

is denying her right to her opinion. But having a right to an opinion does not mean it is above criticism.

[FlemingsGhost]

39. Calling someone a "loser," is criticism?

Funny, I thought personal attacks and insults were the the last bastion for someone who has run out of intelligent criticism.

[Cheswick2.0]

41. I don't know, was calling Randi narrow intelligent criticism?

She brought up the subject of Nader didn't she? I'd be pissed if I were Randi, Smith was there to promote nader. She should have been honest about that before she appeared.

[merh]

40. Randi was not slamming Patti for supporting Nader, she was

commenting on how weird Patti behaved yesterday. Randi was in tears because she has loved Patti's music for years and was disappointed in the way she acted yesterday. Actually Randi felt bad about the way she personally behaved and she thinks someon needs to help Patti. The exchange was all too weird and if you didn't hear it, you cannot understand. Randi still loves Patti's music, she just thinks she is delusional and commented how other djs/talk show hosts called to advise that Patti gives weird interviews.