There is no way in hell a CEO is worth what they are being compensated

[The Lone Liberal]

Not unless he is making thunderbolts of ideas jump out of his ass. And, that is unlikely with the shape the American economy is in at the moment. These are the traitors in this country, they are betraying this country in pursuit of selfish greed. They sell to our enemies, then sell to us to kill the enemy. They would sell both you and I into slavery, not would, they are selling us into slavery.

Total annual compensation (base salary and annual bonus) for CEOs rose a median 10.0 percent in 2002 to $1.8 million, compared to a decline of 2.8 percent in 2001. Long-term incentives (LTI) continue to be the largest component of CEO compensation. The portion of CEO pay represented by LTI climbed steadily from 62 percent in 1998 to 71 percent in 2001, but dropped to 68 percent in 2002. The median LTI value (the grant value of stock options, restricted stock, and other long-term incentives) was flat from 2001 to 2002, at $4.5 million.


http://www.mercerhr.com/knowledgecenter/reportsummary.jhtml/dynamic/idContent/1089750


Check out how you rate against the board room crowd, the real white power, the real good old boy network.

http://www.aflcio.org/corporateamerica/paywatch/ceou/database.cfm

And remember, not all whites participate in that crowd, that power, that network. They are down there on the shop floor waiting for their jobs to be moved overseas.

[markbark]

1. Look at it this way...

If you made $50,000 last year, chances are you earned it.
If you made $50,000,000 last year, chances are you STOLE it.


--MAB

[donco6]

2. I don't care what they make.

As long as they're taxed up the ass for it.

Besides, what's the point, really. Do you really think that, short of a bloody civil war in this country, we could ever cap the salaries of executive CEOs? I'm not willing to support it, knowing that it would be the cause of monumental bloodshed.

[The Lone Liberal]

3. That is what lamppost were invented for.....

......CEOs

[AP]

4. CEOs get high pay becaue we have a lot of crazy laws that enable

them to extract a lot of low-taxed value out of the companies for which they work without
giving shareholders adequate say in what they're doing.

It has little to do with how society values CEOs, unless, if you mean by "society" you mean the
Republican senators, congressmen, and a president who legislates this bizarro world in which
these CEOs operate.

[greatauntoftriplets]

5. I represent their walking-around money.

And some corporations are shameless about it. Last spring when American Airlines was on the verge of filing for bankruptcy, they tried to give the big execs enormous bonuses. For a job well done?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/airlines/story/0,1371,943360,00.html

[roberthall10]

6. I Would Tax CEO Ripoffs

I think people are so fed up with these rip-offs that a special confiscatory tax on compensation over $1 million, say, would be popular. You could say that you would dedicate the proceeds for National Security.

[LittleApple81]

7. I think you did this after the minimum-maximum wage thread from yesterday.

And if so, thank you.

I think that minimum-maximum wage thread was not focusing on the real issues and I tried to point out that fact when I participated in it, but people refuse to be rational about this issue (even coming to the point of crying communism, communism... which is kind of silly in a rational discussion). I don't know if people really understand the difference between socialism and communism, by the way.

I want to say thank you for starting this thread today. It seems that it might lead to good, constructive discussion.

[Stanchetalarooni]

8. Market forces determine this, not opinions.

If you don't believe me bid on the sevices of any old run-of-the-mill CEO and see if he will work for you.

[The Lone Liberal]

10. Then the market is not rational

For there is not a CEO alive that has contributed anything close to what they are taking out. The benefit is not even close to the cost. Companies should start looking for other people, there are a multitude of bright people out there that would perform the job of a CEO which involves PR and showing up at the country club and do that job for a fraction of what the current CEOs are requiring.

[uptohere]

12. yes there are but not as many as are getting it

there are many CEOs who have made improvement to their company's performance so marked as to warrent a jumbo compensation package.

There are many other CEOs who have made no difference in terms of dollars in except if you take into account how far down the company might have fallen without them.

There are others still who are just taking the money with no ROI. Some even manage to do this at several companies before they drift off to "retirement".

The picture is not as obvious as it appears.

[Muddleoftheroad]

15. Bill Gates

Sure as hell did, so did Henry Ford and a host of others.

[SharonAnn]

19. It's not a market, it's a rigged game and the CEO's did the

rigging.

[uptohere]

9. worth is what the buyer says it is

and the buyers are paying the price for these guys.

Corporate boards are the ones who say yea or nay on these descisions and they say yea. Stockholders are free and able to express displeasure for these descisions and that is not happening either. Well thats not really true. CEO compensation is down over the last two years so I guess its moderating some.

Now then, how do I get me one of those spots ?

[SharonAnn]

20. If you hold mutual funds, then you don't get to directly vote

on the stocks you hold. The fund manager does it and they seem to vote for mangement (the board). Can't remember the last time I heard of a Fund Manager participating in an action against the board's recommendation

[uptohere]

21. so do yourself a favor

and buy the stocks yourself. You are right to realize that fund managers are a part of the pack of theives.

But you can also pick and choose your funds, there are some funds geared to making socio-political comment with where their money goes.

You do have options with your money and you can have your voice.

[bloom]

11. I think something needs to change

whether it is everyone else - but senior management - bands together, unionizes for all to be paid more equitably or 'whatever'.




"The cream-of-the-crop worker is trying to organize," he said. "We're seeing doctors and nurses and engineers organizing. A new international union for nurses started about two years ago, and they've already got around 400,000 members."

http://www.heraldtimesonline.com/stories/2003/08/31/news.0831-SH-A1_JLR10882.sto

[iwalktheline]

13. this is one of the first problems to solve in teh economy

once we get George Bush out of the White House.

[uptohere]

23. I'm more interested in stemming the outsourcing

even Wall Street is saying that this is holding the economy back. You know, owing to the continuing unemployment particularly as its the middle class jobs that are evaporating and reappearing overseas.

[Nobody]

14. It's the board of directors, which the CEO is on

that resents the idea that the lowly customer service phone jockey could make rent AND buy food in the same month but doesn't consider 800 megabucks too high a price to pay for exec bonuses in a failing company.

It's also that same board of directors (which includes the CEO) that lays the people who do the real work off, replaces them with temps or sends the jobs overseas and then takes the wages these people would be getting and divvies them up amongst themselves.

When companies do NOT put profits directly into the pockets of the board of directors rather than into the company, we'll all be much better off. But then I must be a socialist for even thinnking about this.

If I were in Alan Greenspan's job, I'd set a percentage limit on how much profit can go directly to the shareholders and tax the crap out of the company if more than that percentage goes there. That would encourage companies to walk the "we love our employees" talk.

You do the work of making the company successful, you should be the one paid for it.

Workers get paid so little because the board of directors want it instead. They think that the giving workers a raise takes money out of their pockets. < sarcasm > We minimum wage workers are stealing money from the stockholders who deserve it so much more. < /sarcasm >

[Muddleoftheroad]

16. If you do the work that makes the firm successful

Then start your own firm and don't complain how this one is run. Then YOU can set up a firm that treats everyone equitably in your opinion and everyone will be happy.

[LittleApple81]

17. Read about SAS

It started as something called Statistics for Applied Sciences or something like that. Produces software packages for organizations and it is, as far as I know, a privately held corporation. It does exactly this as it is very successful.

[Muddleoftheroad]

18. So are other firms

That is the beauty of the system. If you have talent and don't like your current company or the way they do things, then start another.

[Nobody]

22. I'm not talking about small business, I'm talking about

the huge conglomerations that don't budget enough money to an entire divisions for that division to do business.

I'm also talking about huge conglomerations that place impossible sales figures on entire underfunded divisions.

I'm talking about profitable companies that piss off customers by laying off the best people because those same best people got raises during the boom and now make too much money for the board of directors to pay cash for a brand new custom Mazerati.

Believe me: I've worked for these companies. These are the companies that have an incompetant CEO running it into the ground despite the best efforts of the workers to do their best.

Everyone in a company has in their best interests to make it succeed. That lowly customer service rep is extremely important. This is the person who makes sure the customers keep coming back to do business.

In what way is this person not worthy of being able to pay rent AND have heat in the winter while buying enough groceries in the same month?

Making a company successful requires the hard work of EVERYONE in it. When I see CEOs taking a profitable company and driving it into the ground walking away with huge bonuses, I see red. When I see a profitable company refuse to adequately compensate the people who serve the customers in a way that makes the customers want to continue doing business with them, I see red. When I see shareholders who did not do anything for the company other than own stock skimming profits off the top and then selling that stock causing other investors to think the company's in trouble, I see red.

And by the way, in order to start up my own firm, I need something that I don't have: money.

[LittleApple81]

24. I agree with you overall

I posted about SAS because it shows it can be done... to not be influenced by Boards of Directors that are padded with rich fat guys who feed the CEO's ambitions and not worry about ANYBODY (shareholders included).

[Yupster]

25. Problem is

that stockholders do not have enough say in the running of their companies. They leave major decisions to the corporate boards where you will find people like Condi Rice, Hillary Clinton, Vernon Jordan, Sam Nunn, and Dick Cheney making the major decisions for companies that they don't know a whole lot about.

It's ridiculous that a person could be on 4 or 6 major corporate boards and pretend to do a decent job of it.

Instead, they treat their seats as places of power from which they can dispense favors and collect some in return later. Hence you get Vernon Jordon abusing his position on Revlon and American Express's corporate boards by using the position to get a job for his friend's bimbo.

A good reform would be to take authority away from the boards and move it to the stockholders, who will not recommend such exhorbitent salaries.

Condi Rice or Hillary Clinton have no problem with it though if they think there might be a fundraiser down the line some day from these people who are getting the $ 20 million today.