Racial and Religious Slurs

[Boosterman]

Uncle Tom. Rednecks. Hillbillies. Southern Scum. Fundies.

I realize someone will probably tell me to shut up. That I am a "freeper" (what is that btw? Free Republican guys?).

I simply want the democrats to get back to their roots. This hatred serves no purpose and hurts the cause. I am willing to bet that the number of "lurkers" has doubled. Be calm and rational in your opinions please. JMO.

[GreenPartyVoter]

1. Welcome to DU, you make a good point. However, I don't want

to stop calling rabid, rigid RW Christians "Fundagelical Pharisee Talibornagains".

Shame on me for it, but it's the truth.

-----------------------------------
Would Jesus love a liberal? You bet!
http://timeforachange.bluelemur.com/

[Boosterman]

3. I am willing to concede the fact

that some people deserve to be called out. Its the broad generalizations that disturb me. Many others have expressed this same viewpoint far more articulately than myself. It is bad for the party and I am simply throwing in my 2 dollars. JMO.

[GreenPartyVoter]

28. two BUCKS?! Jeez inflation is bad these days *lol*

-----------------------------------
Fight the fraud; fund the recount!
http://timeforachange.bluelemur.com/

[Boosterman]

46. Hehe

At least you got my small bit of humor.

[imenja]

70. We can disagree on issues instead

Take on the ideas and hypocrisy of the Christian right, by all means. But slurs and hatred only undermine our positions.

[Dude_CalmDown]

48. "Talibornagains" - HAAAHAAAHAAAAHAAA

Thanks for that.

[DrWeird]

2. Fundies are scum.

That's not judging people based on the color of their skin, that's judging people based on the content of their character.

[Boosterman]

4. Thats exactly what I am talking about.

Just because someone is of a different denomination than you (assuming you are religious) is no reason to condemn the whole lot. It is bad politics and poor logic.

[DrWeird]

5. Denomination my ass.

Stupidity and zealotry aren't a denomination.

[Boosterman]

7. Keep proving my point. Ty sir or ma'am

seriously. There aren't that many "fundamentalists" as some of you say. Not the real kooks. They are ultra conservative but they aren't wackos. Just because you disagree with them doesn't make them scum. Those are Republican tactics IMO. And actually I am also referring to the Southerners are idiots. Colin Powell is an Unca Tom. Not very classy.

[DrWeird]

9. I disagree with them because they are scum.

Bunch of bigots and hypocrites. And apparently there are a lot of them. They won the last election.

[Boosterman]

13. Fundamentalists didn't win the last election

At best from the numbers I have seen they account for "Bush's mandate". Thats assuming of course the election wasn't stolen. The problem is by insulting a large percentage of the population with derogatory terms we risk losing it all.

[DrWeird]

23. Fuck 'em.

If you voted for Bush you're a homophobic, islamophobic, baby-killing piece of shit and I hope you burn in hell.

[hiphopnation]

30. sentiment

echoed. Can't really feel bad for feeling that way. It's just.

[m berst]

67. you sound like that which you hate

How can I tell you from these evil people?

[lukasahero]

86. Bless you. eom

[DrWeird]

96. You sound like the Klan member...

who gets all upset when people show up to protest a Klan rally. But, but, but you're being bigoted against us?!!

[m berst]

101. let's recap your line of reasoning

You have now equated all of the following - me, scum, fundy, stupidity, bigot, hypocrite, Bush voter, piece of shit, homophobic, islamophobic, baby-killing, Klan.

You negate and invalidate the principles of liberalism when you turn liberal into a "team" of the good guys and then use that to justify hating the presumed bad guys. Your hate is so out of control that you are expressing hatred towards people on your "own team" now. By attempting to purge the team of all heretics you are merely mimicking those you hate and you have eliminated any meaningful difference between you and them.

"Fundies are scum. That's not judging people based on the color of their skin, that's judging people based on the content of their character."

"Denomination my ass. Stupidity and zealotry aren't a denomination."

"I disagree with them because they are scum. Bunch of bigots and hypocrites. And apparently there are a lot of them. They won the last election."

"Fuck 'em. If you voted for Bush you're a homophobic, islamophobic, baby-killing piece of shit and I hope you burn in hell."

"You sound like the Klan member... who gets all upset when people show up to protest a Klan rally. But, but, but you're being bigoted against us?!!"

"Fundie is short for fundamentalists. They attend a variety of churches, mosques, synagogues, and temples. They exclusively vote conservative."

[Cheswick2.0]

38. What is a fundie? What churches do they attend? Do they all vote

republican?

[DrWeird]

97. Fundie is short for fundamentalists.

They attend a variety of churches, mosques, synagogues, and temples. They exclusively vote conservative.

[m berst]

66. "they"

Always "they" and always justified whenever it is used.

Who are these "fundies" and how do we identify them? What do we do once we can identify them? If by "fundy" you mean Bush voter, why not say Bush voter?

[immoderate]

59. How about Clarence "Uncle" Thomas?

Can I say that?

--IMM

[goclark]

102. Sure Immoderate you can

say anything you want to say.

Just know that whatever you call him, or whatever I may want to call him in an open forum, he will probably be called "Mr. Chief Justice" as soon as GWB can arrange it.

I suppose my point is that as angry and emotional as we all are right now, we are voiceless in the face of GWB.

If I am to be voiceless in the minds of the Media and the government, I choose to let my words and my deeds lead by example.

When you are down in life, and the Democrats that I know are truly down right now,the best advice is to GET UP!

If I actually thought that giving Clarence Thomas relative status would change things for the better, I would call him my Auntie. But in reality, that won't help so I am trying to lift myself up instead of staying down.

[TroglodyteScholar]

8. Fundamentalism...

Fundamentalism is dangerous no matter what the religion is. Fundamentalists take the view that their way is right, and everyone else should be persecuted or killed.

You need to understand that when we talk about Fundamentalists, there exists a distinction between them and Evangelicals. Not all Evangelicals are Fundamentalists. I think most of the people who read here are aware of the difference.

[m berst]

68. true

And not all Fundamentalists are Dominionists, and the more precise we are, the more powerful we will be in confronting the threat.

[jdj]

87. "by their works ye shall know them"

this is an internet website, not the DNC, Dem Party, or DLC

the only reason to cease and desist is because its bad strategy.

this is also a demographic, and it's a place to vent.

[autorank]

6. You're right about everything but "fundies." Simple nickname.

Please remember that the people on the receiving end of these slurs have a much greater slur in our direction. They believe that if we do not accept their version of being re-born, we will be sent to Hell where we will suffer various tortures and indignities forever. Just think about that. They want us to suffer forever. That is the greatest slur of all time.

[sadinred]

10. It's true

read DU hate mail!!!

[Boosterman]

11. Agreed

The tactics they use are horrible. I just dont want the democrats to fall into the same situation. Discrimination is simply that. We have to stand for everyones rights or we stand for nothing. (someone famous said that...cant remember who ;))

[sadinred]

14. You are right but

can you imagine trying to hug one of the people that write those emails?? It's so hard not to hate them back. Nevertheless, you are right. :evilfrown:

[Boosterman]

15. Well

the ethical road isn't always easy...but IMO it's the right approach.

[RevCheesehead]

60. ding-ding-ding! You are the winner!!

It's harder to take the high road, but much more satisfying in the end - and you tend to not get as dirty.

On the other hand, sometimes ya just gotta blow off some steam.

Words have as much power as we give them.

[progmom]

94. Boosterman, I have to agree with you.

Being new here myself, I get all excited about being among like-minded people...until they start making wholesale vitriolic attacks on stereotypes.

And maybe that is what is wrong with the DNC, maybe we are too PC and afraid to call a spade a spade, but I have to tell you that that is one of the reasons I am proud to be a democrat.

We may not be bashing gays, but we're doing a lot of really ugly stereotyping, and feeding the RW's perception of us as an angry, evil subculture.




:shrug:

[Boosterman]

103. I know.

And the fact that morons like Rush Limbaugh have legitimate talking points disgusts me. Sadly those who are less educated may simply say "well he was right about that so he must be right about other things".

[sangh0]

12. I find it amazing that DUers will defend Racial and Religious Slurs

and they're not denying they are slurs. They're arguing that it's OK for US to use them.

[CBGLuthier]

43. Don;t forget sexual slurs

All republican women are b****** or c****.

I gave up that particular battle a year and a half ago.

[Boosterman]

47. True

Sorry just replying to what i have seen but I would disagree with those as well.

[progmom]

95. Thanks - I thought I was the only one

...really offended by that.

[Hey Zeus]

61. i don't find it amazing at all

extremists on both sides meet on the far end of the circle.

[Djinn]

16. agree except for fundie

I wont judge someone based on their skin colour, where they live, how they look OR their religion - if their interpretation of that religion takes them into the territory of wanting to make a nations laws based on THEIR intepretation of a holy book, or they want to interfere with MY life and force their bampot views then YES I'll give them a derogatory name (fundie is really just an abbreviation though)

If it walks like a duck etc

[Cheswick2.0]

40. what is a fundie? Which of our presidents in the last 50 years have been

fundamentalist Christians?

[Djinn]

63. well...

A fundamentalist (just my 2 cents seeing as you asked) is someone who believes not ONLY in the literal truth of the Bible (though God himself only knows how they do that given the contradictions contained within it - must be like living with MPD) but also in the NEED to "save" other people's souls whether they like it or not. The people who want to see organised prayer in schools, the end to the teaching of evolution and abortion criminalized because it offends THEIR religious sensibilities.

Don't get so paranoid Cheswick no-one has ever suggested ALL Christians are "fundies" - I couldn't care less what people believe - if they want to believe the world was created 6000 (literal) years ago and that humans descend from Adam and Eve, created by a benevolent all knowing deity, then more power to them - if they want to promote legislation that effects MY life based on NOTHING but THEIR interpretation of a religious belief they are in line with the Taliban and I have no time for them.

People use the term fundie because it's a lot quicker than typing, "religious zealots who wish to enforce their view of God on everyone by force."

Why do you have problem with the word, it’s clearly used so as to separate the majority of Christians (and adherents of other religions) from the few who are fascistic about it.

[The Backlash Cometh]

17. Have you ever met a redneck who is insulted by being called a rednecK

I sure haven't.

[Boosterman]

True but i have heard a lot of

derogatory slang thrown toward the south and those people who happen to believe in God. This despite the fact that middle America was probably the only true "red areas". This despite the fact that 45% of California voted for Bush. Heck 42 % of Mass. voted for bush I believe. Just a concerned southern Christian democrat.

[Behind the Aegis]

20. I haven't either

Most wear that name as a "badge of honor." It is usually not insulting unless you are NOT a redneck. Also, I don't see 'redneck' as a southern thing either. Rednecks come from all regions!

[doni_georgia]

21. I live in the heart of redneck country - not considered a putdown here

People refer to themselves as redneck.

[Nikia]

27. Yes

Especially if it is followed by other insults or is meant to imply something like that the person is stupid. Just because a person is comfortable with calling themselves that or is alright with other "rednecks" calling them that does not mean that they are alright with outsiders using the term to try to make them feel inferior in some way.

[Manfred]

18. Southern slurs arent religious/racial slurs, they are slurs against

their complete stupidity for voting the chimp in

[donheld]

49. Welcome to DU

:hi:

[Boosterman]

80. TY :)

I may not be making friends quick but I plan to be around for a while.

[Behind the Aegis]

19. Slurs

Uncle Tom may be considered a "racial" slur, but Redneck, hillbilly and Southern scum are not racial slurs, but rather regional slurs. I agree with other posters that fundies is not really a slur, more and abbreviation, although it can be sued as a slur depending on context.

There are many words that are slurs that do not target any one group and can be used for anyone. Are those more preferable?

[Boosterman]

22. Umm Redneck

isn't a racial slur? Exactly what racial demographic other than whites would you apply it to then? Hillbilly? Hmmm

Ok lets deal with Southern Scum. You do realize that even MS was 40% democratic right????

[Behind the Aegis]

25. Not a racial slur

It is still not considered a racial term. Although the name it self is rooted in a white person's neck turning red. The original meaning meant a "field worker" and usually someone who was very poor. The word has evolved to reflect poorly educated people, it is often used for whites, but has been applied to other ethnic groups. Hillbilly originally referred to those living a REGION of the Appalachia. Now, it is applied to anyone, regardless of ethnic background, as someone who is uneducated (similar to a redneck) and lives in a rural area (not just the mountains anymore). Again, I didn't say they were not slurs, they just are solely RACIAL ones. As for Southern Scum, that is a regional slur. And, what does the number of democrats in MS have to do with it? There are more registered democrats here in Oklahoma, than rethugs and independents COMBINED!

[Boosterman]

31. I am saying that

40 % voted for Kerry. Kinda a bad idea to put them down. Now if you want to argue the original origin of racial slurs its going to get ugly. The intention is the point.

[Behind the Aegis]

34. point

"Southern scum" is NOT a racial slur!!! Whites are not the only Southerners. It is a SLUR! As a Southerner, I am offended by some of the things said here, but I also understand I am not the intended target. I agree that it is not a good idea to lump an entire group into one "saying" but it does happen.

Why would discussing the origins of racial slurs get ugly? I know quite a bit about the origin of certain hate/racial words. I spent much time studying it. I think I can hold my own.

Point: lumping any group together has its risks, but often it is used to express frustration. When that "lumping" leads to opinions and actions against that group, that is bigotry.

[Boosterman]

39. True

Southern Scum is not a racial slur. Well the reason I mention that you dont want to get involved in the origins of racial slurs is that is the same lame excuse the KKK and other radical organizations use. Almost word for word.

[Behind the Aegis]

42. You lost me!

Well the reason I mention that you dont want to get involved in the origins of racial slurs is that is the same lame excuse the KKK and other radical organizations use. Almost word for word. What lame excuse are you referring to? How is discussing the origin of words, even racial slurs, a lame excuse? Surely you are not comparing my being able to discuss word origins to the Klan?! I did not say I approved of certain words, but discussing where they come from is educational!

[Boosterman]

45. Ok

To me a slur is all in the intention behind it. However many "moderate" racists use the excuse of the N word meaning something else entirely. You are parroting that reasoning. Redneck at this point is being used for all those "stupid southern whites that have gun racks and drive trucks". Just bad for the party IMO.

[Behind the Aegis]

50. You are making no sense!

Am I correct in that you are inferring I am racist?! Because if you are, you couldn't be further from the truth! I NEVER SAID redneck was NOT a SLUR. It is NOT a RACIAL SLUR! "Nigger" is a RACIAL slur! "CRACKER" is a RACIAL slur! Redneck is NOT! Just because it is not a racial slur, doesn't mean it is not a slur. I have said, repeatedly it IS a slur, it is a REGIONAL slur! Correctly pointing out that fact doesn't mean I approve of its use!

[Boosterman]

56. No

And I prefer not to argue. I am simply saying that its unfair and you are applying the same logic as acknowledged racists. Perhaps I should have made the title Racial, regional, and religious slurs.

[Behind the Aegis]

57. Perhaps so

It is unfair to use slurs against a group. But I still fail to see where you jumped to the conclusion that I was "applying the same logic as acknowledged racists." I never said the words you chose were not slurs, I simply corrected the category to which they belong. I also never said, directly or indirectly, that I approve of such uses. So, it still makes no sense to say I that am using "the same logic as acknowledged racists" as I did not use logic to declare slurs appropriate!

[Carni]

24. Being a "Democrat" doesn't mean I have to be PC

Now as you predicted let me just say "shut up and go back to"...

[Boosterman]

32. True

But you do lose any moral authotity over others.

[Carni]

54. Don't care if I have "moral authority" over anyone

I'll leave that to the fundies and rednecks.

[Artemis Bunyon]

26. To save the union, we should send our Southerner friends gifts...

...like, say, smallpox infected blankets or something.

[Boosterman]

33. Did you catch the part on the maps where there

lots of Democrats in the south? Lots of Christians too.

[CBGLuthier]

44. As a native american southerner

I find that particular allusion rather tasteless to the extreme.

[Nikia]

29. I agree. Slurs can really alienate and hurt

I usuaully don't use slurs but have used "Fundy" to describe certain people. I'll try to be more careful about that because I know what you are saying.

[rinsd]

35. Cripes...It's the Internet!

Where we all go back to the school yard and base our arguments in part on how cleverly we can demonize the opposition.

It's a multi-part dynamic. It's code for letting others know you're on the level. It's a way of herding followers under a common banner. It's a way of channeling group frustration and hatred. After all the sharper the barb the deeper the cut, the more the isolation.

It's also not limited to DU by a long shot. See any poltical discourse on the web. See any sport teams fan sites. Its the same dynamic. People seem to get part of their identity from association with a "team"(doesn't matter which). Therefore any an all attacks on the "team" are felt personally. And the need to degrade the other tema in order to appease one's self esteem is also part of it. That isn;t to say all participants but I would venture a large majority operate in this way. Again I am not speaking of DU persay but the internet as a whole. Sides are chosen, battle is entered into and you can walk away with the smug satisfaction that you totally busted #1jetfan.....even though they are likely only 12 years old.

Is it all a bunch of childish crap that the world would be better off heaving into the historical dustbin? Well you should know the answer already.

[Boosterman]

36. I can hope that I

have an effect for the greater good cant I? Probably I am wrong but a man can dream. This also might be a tad more important than whether the Jets or the Bills win a game or even the Superbowl. (well maybe not the bills dammit)

[rinsd]

37. Greater good is.....good....

I was just saying you're a leaf in a rushing current on this issue.

[Boosterman]

41. Probably

But some people agree with me. Hey I am not out anything by expressing my opinion. Can't hurt. :)

[donheld]

51. You freeper

:evilgrin: you said somewone would call you that. Not being one to disappoint. Remember you're not really a member of DU till someone calls you that.

"what is that btw? Free Republican guys?" I guess anymore a freeper is just anyone who spouts off the republican spew that comes from the right.

[Boosterman]

58. Ty sir ;)

[Jack Schitt]

52. Since the fundies don't show me any respect...

then why should I give a damn about them?

[Dude_CalmDown]

55. What a great name! I love it! Can you help me think of a new one? n/t

*

[TheDonkey]

64. I approve that message.

fuck em'.

[KenCarson]

53. constant name calling is a copout

for making actual points sometimes. people get fired up by repeating the same slurs on both sides, and then run like mobs to attack the "enemy". who benefits more than the person who can divide and enslave those willing to sign on for mindless repetition of slurs? i don't see things as only having 2 sides, but since that's how US politics are framed often, I'll say it appears on both sides frequently.

[goclark]

62. Boosterman I agree with you

I do believe that there are more Republican visitors here then before the election. That is a real problem IMO.

I completely enjoyed the creative,intellectual give and take within the threads.

Since the election,I have been a victim and felt the sting of expressing my opinions. I have been a Liberal Democrat all my life and am shocked to see the level of hate that appears now. I first believed it was from the lurkers, now I can't tell the difference.

It is extremely hurtful to post to a Liberal Forum and feel as if you are the enemy and not on the same side. The side that wanted the Democratic Party and its ideals, to win.

I don't believe that you are asking that we watch every word that we say. I believe that we should say our words as if the world is watching our every key stroke. And the world is watching.

My grandmother used to tell me, " Don't put anything in writing that you would not be proud of 10 years from today." My grandmother lived way before the internet but I still see the basic wisdom of her idea.

And, since this forum does not have us identify by Party, whatever is posted gives the impression that so called liberal democrats enjoy throwing racial slurs around just like Republicans do.

I will certainly be very careful with my posts from now on. In fact,
I don't feel comfortable sharing my pt. of view here anymore.

I am responding to your message because it sounds as if you would like us to tone things down a bit so that we don't play right into the hands of the Republicans.

With a great deal of sadness, I believe we are in the minority.

I would like to ask that anyone that wishes to put me down or put my opinions down,please don't. I am not in the mood to fight with anyone.

[m berst]

72. great post goclark

DU is much, much better on this than most boards in my experience, but you are correct that there is a lot of hate here lately.

I believe that there are those in power who want us to hate. It doesn't matter whom we hate or why, just so long as we do hate someone. They feed off of that energy and they gain power over us. Hate weakens us, even though it makes the poster feel stronger for a little while.

I hate what a handful of men around the Bush administration are doing, and a handful of men leading the Dominionist movement are doing. I hate it that many decent people are being duped by these powerful men to head down a destructive path. I don't hate the people themselves. Hating them would be surrendering to them. Hate is too weak for what I feel towards them and hate has no power.

[goclark]

78. Txs m berst - I needed that!

I am glad to know that you see things like I do.

I was starting to worry more about Liberal Democrats than Zell Miller.

Thanks for your supportive words.

[bvar22]

76. Actually, you are in the vast majority!

Most of the members of DU are civil, educated, liberal adults.

The hate spreaders are a small minority. They just scream loud, and get around alot. There seems to be a perverse payoff for them if they can drop their hate bombs in as many threads as possible. You will become familiar with their names, and recognize their cut & paste style.

I suspect that a few are even paid to do this.

[goclark]

77. Yes, a minority are running away

a minority of people that feel as we do.
In my opinion, the battle that we have to take back our country is too big to run away anyone that is loyal to our cause.


The hackers? are playing to the deep disappointment of a huge majority of loyal democrats that have given their all to the democratic ideals.

I thank you from the bottom of my liberal heart for taking the time to say something kind to me.

I am generally a pretty tough cookie but it has been brutal here , for me anyway,lately.

[Boosterman]

81. Yet another person who is more

eloquent than myself. Excellent post sir or ma'am. Love your quote from your grandmother.

[progmom]

98. excellent post

...said so much more elegantly than my post.
Thanks.

[UdoKier]

65. I WOULD tell you to shut up - if you had made any kind of point.

Please explain to me at what point in history the Democratic party embraced religious extremism, ignorance, and the rejection of science.

If anything, the party has drifted further and further right for 12+ years, while the fundamentalists, have whipped themselves into ever-more-frenzied Rapture euphoria and become more and more insistent on foisting their religious dogma on everyone else via the government.

Keep your religion in your home and in church (and the bumper stickers on your car if you must) but leave the rest of us alone with that mumbo-jumbo.

[Boosterman]

73. Ummmm no

But your plan doesnt seem to be working genius. Any other plans?

[imenja]

69. I couldn't agree more.

One it's ugly. Two, we'll never win if we insult great swaths of the population. Hatred poisons the soul.

[Norquist Nemesis]

71. Those aren't words I typically use

(except maybe for 'fundie')

I keep hearing the current media darlings (such as Grover Norquist) accusing liberals of making fun of people in the southern states. Can't say I've ever done that...although Jeff Foxworthy makes me laugh.

Which makes me wonder...how is it that Jeff Foxworthy is able to make a boatload of cash with a gimmick of poking fun a rednecks? "You must be a redneck if..."

[yurbud]

74. Has the right been polite for the past 20 years?

It's ironic that the right has been calling anyone left of Rush Limbaugh communists and traitors for the last 20 years, but as soon as the left hits back hard (with valid criticism not just name calling), the far right pundits tsk and cluck about how nasty the debate is getting.

Here's an idea for the right wing freepers: Instead of keeping track of who calls who more names, try to independently verify their arguments. What do people who know their shit about an issue say? What do those who work on the same issue in other countries say? (and get it straight from them, not second hand). The right tells you the world supports Bush and his war and the left says most of the rest of the world is against him and the war and consider him the greatest threat to world peace. If that's as far as you look, you just have a "he said, she said" argument, and you pick your side the way you decide what shirt you want to wear when you get dressed. If you bother to do ANY independent research, like googling "world opinion poll bush," you might see who's closer to the truth.

Same goes for how things are going in Iraq. Here's a thought: instead of listening to what Rush says they think, read some Iraqi blogs. Read the polls that were done by the coalition provisional authority and gallup. Go to a website that dares to show the photos of what's going on there.

You can still go to your right wing sites. But the more sources you look at, the more you get a feel for whose reliable and whose talking out of their ass.

[Boosterman]

79. I see

So if someone insults you its ok to use the same tactics. If someone hits you, you are perfectly justified in hitting them back harder. Got it.

[UdoKier]

82. It definitely works better than

"Thank you sir, may I have another"

That's been the tactic of the left for 20 years and it's gotten us diddly. Time to have a spine.

[Boosterman]

83. It was a trick question btw

Thats the same ratonale Bush used to go to war.

[goclark]

84. Boosterman you have style

It is much harder to pick up the baton and run a good race than grab a stick and throw it at your team mates when you don't win.

IMO, the anger here is deeply seeded in the hurt from this stolen election.

We feel disenfranchised and want to throw lots of stones. I know I am tempted to handle my hurt that way.

But something inside me tells me that slow with my words and steady on my feet will win in the end.

If this election Fraud is ever exposed it will not be from those of us who are screaming. It will be from those that were willing to work with blackboxvoting.org and other groups providing our money and our technical knowledge, attending voter fraud meetings,sending emails and running for important positions that will put liberal democrats in place for 06 and beyond.

We don't really, IMO, have time to go negative right now.

[Boosterman]

85. Obama talked about this

kinda thing. (actually it was negative campaign ads but its related IMO) He said something along the lines of " I grimace whenever we play this game with the republicans. We are not that good at it."

[goclark]

88. Obama, a leader that we need to listen to

He has been educated in the finest schools and yet he understands the urban areas of Chicago.

If he believes we aren't very good at being mean spirited, that is a huge clue for all of us.

I am also reminded of the Civil Rights Movement. The reason that it worked was because the White Southerners were turning dogs on the marchers and they just kept marching for justice.

This is a different era of course but the tactic still works. Use your wits not your clubs to win the battle.

We can see from the lack of success in Iraq that all the might of Bush is seen in the eyes of the world as the work of a terrorists named Bush with blood on his hands. His dirty words and deeds are transparent to the world.

[Boosterman]

89. Obama seems great

Another one to listen to is Harold Ford Jr IMO. Never thought I would say that about a Ford family member. I lived in Tn for a long time and the Fords were generally a disgrace. Somehow he seems to have escaped all that. He converted a friend of mines dad to one of his supporters by showing up in person to their Veterans meetings. He was a hardcore Republican too. Thats the kind of leadership we need IMO. And now that I have derailed my own thread...

[yurbud]

75. Has the right been polite for the past 20 years?

It's ironic that the right has been calling anyone left of Rush Limbaugh communists and traitors for the last 20 years, but as soon as the left hits back hard (with valid criticism not just name calling), the far right pundits tsk and cluck about how nasty the debate is getting.

Here's an idea for the right wing freepers: Instead of keeping track of who calls who more names, try to independently verify their arguments. What do people who know their shit about an issue say? What do those who work on the same issue in other countries say? (and get it straight from them, not second hand). The right tells you the world supports Bush and his war and the left says most of the rest of the world is against him and the war and consider him the greatest threat to world peace. If that's as far as you look, you just have a "he said, she said" argument, and you pick your side the way you decide what shirt you want to wear when you get dressed. If you bother to do ANY independent research, like googling "world opinion poll bush," you might see who's closer to the truth.

Same goes for how things are going in Iraq. Here's a thought: instead of listening to what Rush says they think, read some Iraqi blogs. Read the polls that were done by the coalition provisional authority and gallup. Go to a website that dares to show the photos of what's going on there.

You can still go to your right wing sites. But the more sources you look at, the more you get a feel for whose reliable and whose talking out of their ass.

[starroute]

90. The real issue is who supports democracy and who doesn't

As we're learning to our sorrow, a democratic system doesn't work unless everybody believes in democracy.

If one faction believes it's okay to steal elections, and even prides themselves on their cleverness in doing so, democracy fails.

If one group believes that the will of the people is something apart from and inferior to the will of God -- and that enforcing the will of their God trumps majority rule, minority rights, and even the rule of law -- then democracy fails.

If people in positions of great power secretly hold the entire idea of democracy in contempt and seek ways to restore unrestricted elite rule, then democracy fails.

The reality that people on the left are gradually waking up to -- and still mostly don't want to admit -- is that the US is no longer a country where everyone believes in democracy. The even more daunting prospect is that those who don't believe in democracy have the advantage over those who do, and that there ise no easy way to counter them and hold onto our democratic values at the same time.

This is a terrible knowledge to hold, and as well as fear and hatred of the real enemies of democracy, there is also a great deal of resentment of those who are simply too complacent or too insulated to recognize the danger. It seems more and more likely that the struggle will be over and our freedoms lost before most Americans even notice we are at war.

That is the real dilemma. Politeness is no answer to it and trying to play nice in the hope of winning the next rigged election is no answer either. As we used to say in the 60's, "If you ain't part of the solution, you're part of the problem."

[goclark]

91. Let's March !

Let's attend Meet Up's in our areas.
Let's get actively involved in issues on the national and state and city and county ,
Let's work in grassroots politics.

Let's speak out at every injustice that we see on the planet!

But, we must not waste our time or efforts beating up each other. When we say that we hate Kerry and Edwards that is exactly what the Right wants to hear.

That is counter productive.

[Boosterman]

93. Wow

Thats a lot of generalizations and assumptions. Just to justify calling someone a redneck. Kudos

[starroute]

99. Where did I justify calling anybody a redneck?

I said that there was presently a lot of resentment towards those who were too complacent to recognize that our liberties are in danger. And I said that polite attentiveness towards their assumptions was not the answer to the problem.

I would guess from your distortion of what I said that you're among the self-blinded. You might try dropping your sarcasm and taking an honest look around you while you still can.

[Boosterman]

100. wellll

I am one of those simple or "self-blinded" as you say southerners. Maybe you could type slower since I am evidently slow of wit. I was assuming you were referring to the slurs since that was the topic. Perhaps I am wrong.

[goclark]

104. Boosterman you have certainly given us food for thought

Bravo for your excellent thread!

Your words are like a Yoga Class, they can make one calm if you open your mind and try to relax in a different way.

IMO, the elections have left us all drained and so very angry.
Your thread has been like an hour of Therapy!

I refuse to let GWB control my mind or my life.
Life is far too short and we have so much work to do for our country.

:dem:

[LibertyorDeath]

92. "Fundies" LOL you mean Evangelical Whack Jobs or

Godwacks these Christian nut-jobs will get what's coming to them.

Read some history they always do!!

Question is will they take the Sane among us with them this time.

http://www.yuricareport.com/Dominionism/HungOverInTheEndTimes.html

As to your ? what is a "freeper" they are Rightards.