Am I the only one that don't mind moderate democrats?

[DemGirl7]

Since I've been coming in here, I have seen alot of insulting of certain moderate democrats, and I have no problem with it. It's just that I feel somewhat out of place here, because I don't mind moderate democrats as they are as much alot of people on here. I agree that some democrats seem alittle like republicans, but these are red-state democrats for the most part, and they have no choice to be like that otherwise they would have never gotten to office(some of them are good politicans that I actually like).I was just wondering if there are any other people on here that feel the same way that I do??

[wurzel]

1. Who is a "Moderate Democrat"?

[trogdor]

7. I am a moderate Democrat.

I refuse to buy into the idea that we're all into "working with" the Republicans. That cannot be further from the truth. The day they come up with an idea I can support, one that isn't just plain stupid, I'll get behind them, but that day hasn't arrived in many years.

I used to be a moderate Republican, but the day the GOP started getting behind people like Trent Lott, Tom DeLay, and George W. Bush was the day I just couldn't take it anymore. Today's GOP is the party of idiots and nutjobs. I don't know whether to admire the few moderates they still have or pity them for their stubbornness.

[George_S]

16. LOL, what's the difference between a mod Dem and a mod Repub?

Not much.

The ones you list are neither and are neocons.

[Redleg]

23. That's pretty damned insulting.

Why not alienate half of the Democratic party while you are at it? By the way- I am a liberal Dem but I don't look down on the moderates in the party.

[George_S]

24. Insulting in what way?

Why do you think it is insulting? A moderate is a moderate because he/she is moderate, and both moderate Dems and Repubs are by definition moderate.

So it's a legit question. What is the difference?

I say it doesn't make any difference because the extreme right is taking control and neither the mod Dems nor the mod Repugs can do anything about it.

Try playing teeter-totter with Rush Limbaugh sitting on the right and the other person sitting in the middle.

[Redleg]

25. Moderate Dems and Moderate Repubs are not the same.

That's how it's insulting. It gets pretty damned tiring reading these "Dems aren't liberal enough" posts here. Next thing, people will start calling moderate Dems "Republican lite." Enough already with the categorization.

[George_S]

26. How the hell are they different?

Simple question. If you don't want to answer, fine, but I don't care what you are tired of.

EDIT: For example, is a Dixiecrat a mod Dem?

I'm not arguing against mod Dems at all, but am only asking what the difference is.

Also, it seems the mod Dems are objecting to the left Dems more than the left Dems are objecting to the Mod Dems, hence the teeter-tooter analogy.

We need someone sitting on the left.

[Redleg]

27. Why do you choose to stereotype?

That is my question. Na shr Redleg shau da fang fa.

[George_S]

28. Speak English and we'll talk.

[Redleg]

29. You don't understand Mandarin? How provincial of you.

LOL

[George_S]

32. Provincial and proud.

Yawn.

[Redleg]

33. You don't do sarcasm?

LOL

[George_S]

34. You can't answer the question...

... move along. Nothing to see here folks.

[Redleg]

35. The question is not for me to answer.

Not all moderate Dems believe the same things. The same is true for moderate Repubs. Why lump them all together?

Look at some of the responses on this thread by "moderate Dems."

[wyldwolf]

55. LOL, what's the difference between a far leftie and a far rightie?

Not much.

[wurzel]

36. I really meant who is a "Moderate Democrat" in Congress.

Lieberman?

[JohnKleeb]

46. Lieberman is yeah somewhat

He's really not as conservative as most people think he is, now, do I like him? god no but there are more conservative dems than him. He's most conservative on foreign policy issues, and more of a moderate on social and economic issues.

[Andromeda]

57. I'm a moderate on most issues....

of policy and economics and liberal on social issues. I don't like to be labeled because most of us are a combination of liberal and moderate. Maybe some of us are conservative in other respects.

Moderate Democrats and moderate Republicans are NOT alike as some people think.

[I_Love_Oregon]

21. Jack Kennedy

Is my model for a moderate Democrat. He was staunchly anti-communist, and believed in low taxes. Those could be considered his "moderating" beliefs in relation to his party. Most of his other positions are more to the Left.

[GRLMGC]

2. I don't mind them either n/t

[rwenos]

3. "Moderate" Dem's Covers a Lot

There are several gradations of moderate Democrats. Believe it or not, the south used to be full of them. They carried the balance of power in national politics. Bill Clinton realized this, and stayed close enough to the center of the electorate to keep them in the fold. After two straight liberals (Al Gore and John Kerry), we seem to have forgotten the good ole' moderates.

As a longtime moderately-liberal Dem, who doesn't consider himself anywhere near the Pub's, but does believe in a strong defense and regulating the corporations, I would argue that the DNC needs to expand its mind about "moderate" Democrats.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

4. There are "moderate" Democrats and then there are

"ask the Repubicans for permission to exist" Democrats.

I can't stand the latter.

I am also more sympathetic to Dems who fudge on personal behavior issues than I am to Dems who play poodle to corporate interests. I doubt if advocating for NAFTA wins a lot of votes in the South.

On the matter of a "strong defense," the voters need to be told that the U.S. military is already--even with Clinton's alleged cutbacks--larger than the next six put together. That's right: larger than Russia and China and the next four countries put together. (Something like Ben Cohen's Oreo demonstration might be helpful there.) Yet most of it is going not to the troops but to the military contractors. It might be helpful to get past this knee-jerk militarism and teach the voters what actually makes the U.S. strong and what just enriches the fat cats.

[rwenos]

8. You Mean colmes, Right?

Amen to disgust for Dem vendido's who steal their salary from Faux News. I couldn't look myself in the mirror if I took a regular salary from those sphincter muscles.

[Wonk]

10. and then there's the Zell Miller type of "Democrats"

:crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy:

Moderate isn't the right word for them, though they may try and affix it to themselves.

[intheflow]

5. I don't even mind moderate Republicans.

I mean really moderate ones, the ones who are still deluded into thinking the Republicans stand for smaller government. If I didn't get along with them, I'd be completely estranged from 85% of my family.

So--moderate Dems? Right on! I'll take anyone who's willing to work with us to get chimp & co. out of power.

[Just Me]

6. Personally,...I embrace diversity,...

,...but have developed little tolerance for those who have no tolerance.

The "label" thingy,...is a total right-wing, neo-fascist-con development that is totally intolerable in a civil society that embraces democracy.

People are too textured to label like that.

[crispini]

9. I'm a moderate democrat!

But I live in Texas so I have the impression that I am an ultra leftie pinko liberal commie! ;)

Actually, that's true. IRL by the standards of everyone around me I am a big ol hothead radical. Around here, I'm pretty mild.

Just ignore people here who rag on moderate dems. IMO this board is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay left of the D's as a whole. Part of the continual fodder for the merry-go-round, that's all.

Go visit your state forum, you'll find it's slower there and a lot more mellow. :D

[Pirate Smile]

11. You aren't the only one. What would a fiscally "conservative" or

fiscally responsible person who is progressive on social issues be classified as because that is me, Howard Dean, John Kerry and a huge proportion of the Democratic Party?

I was pro-Afghanistan War and anti-Iraq War.

I always pick moderate Democrat on the Zogby polls for where I am on the political scale.

[lwin]

37. I consider myself to be a moderate dem too

Fiscally conservative, socially liberal, except I do believe in the death penalty for certain crimes. And yes, I know the system is not perfect and that's a real problem.

The first person who dares to call me "republican lite" to my face is going to find out just hard a 5'5 woman can punch. :evilgrin:

[sandnsea]

12. Except when they don't get it

I suppose everybody annoys me, to tell the truth. Anyway, I think different points of view are necessary on everything because I suspect if we stuck to any one ideology, it wouldn't work, no matter what ideology. But when moderate Democrats or Republicans just don't get that the Republican corporatist is truly only for corporatism, then I have no use for them. That is their philosophy, anything that isn't pure capitalism is communism. They really did think FDR was a communist for implementing all those programs. And these type of Republicans really will stop at nothing to destroy what they perceive to be communism and they are currently in control. So people who refuse to understand that and think they can negotiate or something, well they make me mad.

[Laelth]

13. Most people in the US should have voted for Kerry.

Take a look at this chart:



Look at where John Kerry is, politically, based upon his 2004 campaign (and not based upon his true political beliefs, I pray).

Then take a look at where I am:



If you'd like to see where you fall on this chart, go HERE and take the quiz.

Personally, I look forward to the day when you guys who call yourself "moderate Democrats" are, in fact, Republicans and my political opposition. Most of you seem quite reasonable, even if we don't agree on a number of issues. The fact of the matter is that this country has lurched way to the right over the past 30 years, such that I, a real liberal, am a minority in my own party. Heck, I'm more liberal than even Ralph Nader according to this quiz.

It's not that I dislike moderate Democrats. Not at all. I like reasonable, fiscally conservative Republicans. It's just that the people who now call themselves "moderate Democrats" are really reasonable Republicans who vote for Democrats or who, wisely, have switched parties because the current incarnation of the Republican party is patently insane. As opposed to this near-Nazi-nightmare we have now, I would prefer a political system that featured a reasonable Republican party and a real, liberal alternative.

no offense intended to anyone here ...

-Laelth

[George_S]

19. I've taken that test before

And am about where Ralph Nader is. I wish I knew of a forum that is right in there somewhere.

There is too much support for the police state here for my taste. Worse, I don't think many here realize that fascism is impossible without a strong police state, but at the same time they talk about Bush's fascist regime as if there isn't any connection.

[annabanana]

14. Mod Dems are fine.. as long as they don't think we lost n/t

[Fla Dem]

15. What's A Moderate Democrat?

I always considered myself a moderate Dem. But I guess I'm not sure what that means any more...and what's the tipping point that takes you from moderate to way left of center? Here's where I stand on some major issues. OK here goes......

I believe we have to have a strong military to protect our interests and assist in peace keeping around the world.

I do not and did not support the preemptive war in Iraq, but I did support us going into Afghanistan to get rid of the Taliban, eliminate al Qaeda, and kill OBL.

I personally do not believe in abortion, but do not feel the government has any right to interfere in a woman's decision concerning her own body.

I support environmental protection policies. I think we should participate in the Kyoto agreement.

I support research and development into alternative fuels.

I support stem cell research.

I am opposed to government funded faith based initiatives.

I support some type of health care reform that provides all children with basic health maintenance and coverage for catastrophic illness.

I do not think two same sex people who care for one another and want to form a legal union should be denied that right. And that civil union should be given the same legal recognition as any man and woman civil union.

Every child should get an equal education in government funded (state, local, or federal)schools. Where you live should not determine the quality of education you receive. No child should be disadvantaged because of where they live.

I believe the government should have a balanced budget, and live within that budget.

I'm sure there are other issues, but this gives some insight to my leanings. So where does the conventional wisdom of this forum pigeonhole me?


:shrug:

[George_S]

20. I agree with all of that.

EDIT: The fundies would think you a flaming liberal though.

[Laelth]

22. Fla. Dem ...

You sound like you're a little bit left of moderate to me.

I'm with you on most of the issues you listed. You and I part compnay only on these four things:

1) I believe in a strong military, but I think we spend too much money on ours (as much as the next 10 greatest military powers on earth combined, I've heard). I'd prefer to see a larger military force (more jobs) and fewer cool toys for which we the people pay outrageous prices (welfare for the military-industrial complex).

2) I thought the Afganistan invasion was a bad idea, and history has proven me mostly correct. Opium production is way up and the country is under the control of local chieftans, again (not that the Taliban government was good, but there are a lot of bad governments on the planet and I don't think we have any business using our military to change that fact). Personally, I think that terrorist hunting ought to be the business of the CIA and not the US military.

3) I think that gays ought to have the right to marry. Why continue to penalize gays psychologically with a semantic jesture (calling it a civil union)? If it confers the same rights, then why not call it the same thing? I wouldn't force Churches to perform the ceremony, of course. Nobody's suggesting that. Besides, the ceremony is purely symbolic. It's the actual marriage contract that matters, legally, and if it confers the same rights, I see no reason not to call it the same thing.

4) Finally, I think the budget ought to be balanced when Republicans are running the show. That's what they're supposed to be good at, anyway. I might cut the government some slack when the Dems. are in charge because I trust them to spend the money wisely.

Don't know if that helps, but that might give you a sense of how your positions look from the left. ;)

And, you're right. In the current US political climate, to most people, you probably are a flaming leftist. Sad, really.

-Laelth

[flying_monkeys]

38. Can I sit next to you?

I fall on the charts just about where you are, and I am wondering if this poster thinks those positions are "moderate", then what is a REAL lefty-lefty supposed to support? I am pretty far to the left and I can't think of what would possibly make people call me a Moderate...

Is it the balancing budget part that makes people want to lay claim to the "Moderate" name? I don't get it...

[Laelth]

40. LOL!

Please, pull up a chair and have a seat. :hi:

Yes, that's what I was thinking. Most of Fla Dem's listed positions are on the left. There were only a few issues where I was further to the left. If you want my take on this, I think people are just afraid of the "liberal" label. Lots of Americans hold lots of liberal views, but the word "liberal" has been smeared for so long, people are often afraid to say they're liberal, even when they are. Same goes for the Democratic party. Just watch Fox for a good illustration. On Fox, Democrat=idiot. Moderate Democrat=just a little warped.

Very, very sad.

-Laelth

[flying_monkeys]

42. Yes, I agree

They are afraid of the "liberal" moniker and shy away....

I mean, to be left of me one would have to believe in what? I have many socially liberal friends IRL who voted for * even tho he went against everything they believed in (and they aren't rich, which is at least something I could sink my teeth in as a reason). I can't understand how so many are so afraid of the "L" word....

[Fla Dem]

49. Sorry not afraid of the Liberal moniker.

Honey, I was probably a flaming liberal before you could speak the word. Marched in anti-war demonstrations during the Vietnam war, was part of the women's movement in the 70's and worked on Teddy Kennedy's campaigns.

I have NO problem with the term Liberal. My positions seem to me to be reasonable and compassionate. My thinking that I may be a moderate has more to do with some of the discourse here on the forum. Discussions that all government is terrible, all military is evil, and that the USA is a horrible nation. Sorry, those are positions I cannot accept. We make mistakes, we are not perfect. We elect the wrong people to positions of power for the wrong reasons. We have shortcomings in our systems and programs. But at the end of the day, we do more good than any other nation and I wouldn't trade my country for any other. We'll get through this nightmare with GWB, just as we have with other miscreants who were elected to office. Hopefully our side will be stronger as a result.

:pals:

[Fla Dem]

50. See my response to Flying Monkey. n/t

[Fla Dem]

48. OK, maybe I didn't nuance by positions enough. Everything isn't B&W.

I really just wanted to get a sense of where I stood in relation to others on this forum. So didn't add a lot of detailed analysis of each of my positions. But let me respond to your points.


1.) I agree. I also think we spend too much on the latest toys. There is duplication and triplication of many weapon systems and support services. One of the issue brought forth in the 9/11 hearing was that there are multiple intelligence agency within the Dept of Defense with no coordination. Why does each service need several intelligence operation. Do we really need all those bunker busting bombs? Do we really need star wars?

2.) I stand by position that we should have invaded Afghanistan. al Qaeda attacked our country and killed our citizens. OBL's headquarters were there and was supported by the Taliban. Where we failed was diverting our attention from OBL to invade Iraq. Had we kept our troops there, gave the right effort to helping them rebuild a solid society, preventing the reconstitution of the Taliban, etc thing might have been different. I'm not sure what we could have done about preventing the growing of opium. That has historically been one of their crops, as evil as it is. Only the crackdown of the Taliban stopped it's production. But then if I have to choose between the oppressive governance of the Taliban vs opium production, I would choose the lesser of the two evils. Perhaps once the government became viable, new industry could have been substituted for the opium farming, or the producers could have been paid not to produce it. But they have to survive and for them it's a cash crop.

I also agree we cannot use our military might to change every oppressive government in the world. But I do think we should do something when you have genocidal situations like what is occurring in the Sudan. How can we as a compassionate country turn a blind eye to that suffering?

3.) I am having a hard time getting all worked up over the term marriage. It is a convenient one size fits all word that covers any type of legal joining together of two people, whether it is done by a priest, minister, rabbi, Justice of the Peace, ship's captain, Elvis impersonator in Las Vegas etc. But the one thing they all have in common is the legal standing granted by the state. To me marriage is the ceremonial aspect of the union. Call it marriage, tying the knot, getting hitched, joined, wedded, wedlock etc, it all has to be officially sanctioned. To me that is the issue.

4.) Hmmm OK for us to spend outside the budget, but not the other side. Sorry, I applaud your faith in the Dems, but I guess what is good for the goose is good for the gander. I trust the Dems to spend more wisely and for the betterment of all people, not just those who will contribute to your next campaign.

It's OK if I am a flaming liberal. I am from Massachusetts after all. I just got the impression from many of the discussions on this board that my positions were more to the center than to the left.

Thanks for your response and giving me the opportunity to clarify my thinking.

[Laelth]

53. Good morning!

Thanks for your reply, and I'm glad to hear you're not afraid of being labeled a liberal (because your stated policy positions seem pretty liberal to me). My point stands, however. I think a lot of "moderate Democrats" are people with mostly liberal ideals who merely shy away from the word. I think that's too bad.

And I don't buy the right-wing noise that says liberals hate America. If we hate it so much, why would we even bother to work so hard to make it better? Why would we fight so hard for the ideals expressed in the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution? Personally, I feel that I love America best when I criticize her. That's how we on the left push America to live up to her ideals. That's how we strive to insure "liberty and justice for all."

And thanks for clarifying your policy positions. It's clear we're on the same side. BTW, did you take the quiz I linked to above? You might find the results interesting.

:)

-Laelth


Edit:Laelth--idiom.

[Redleg]

31. Right on, dude. You are welcome in my Dem party.

EOM

[Andromeda]

56. Umm, that should be 'dudette'

I think. :)

[GraphicQueen]

54. I consider myself a MODERATE Dem!!

I do not consider myself a moderate Republican at all. The difference? I think it has to do with being more liberal when it comes to social issues. But the main place where I tend to stray from the Democrats and, it seems, the majority of Republicans, is about the immigration issue. Since I live close to the border of Mexico I see the problems that ILLEGAL aliens cause the country, but most especially the cities and the healthcare problems. I would like to see illegal immigration stopped and I mean close the border by whatever means is necessary. I have no problem at all with LEGAL immigration but the illegals must be deported and the border must be safe from the illegals, which include, people smugglers, drug runners and heaven knows what else. There have been prayer rugs found in the trash left by illegals that have crossed the border on a friend's property along with the other trash the illegals leave. I am tired of my tax dollars going to pay for the education of Mexican citizens, yes I said Mexican citizens. I can take you to a few places right on the border that children cross the border legally every day to catch the school bus to go to school in our country, but their parents don't even live in our country, nor do they pay any taxes here except what sales taxes they would pay from buying products here. This is happening in Texas, Arizona and New Mexico. I wouldn't be surprised if it is also happening in California but I haven't seen it there like the other states.

The health care problems are another issue. The federal government does not pay the cities and the hospitals the proper amount to continue taking care of the illegals and the ones that are allowed to cross the border specifically for hospitalization. I have personally seen American citizens turned away for certain treatments and told they had to go a city that was over 200 miles away because they weren't illegal or poor enough to receive the freebies that the county hand outs. These people were not even middle class at all but are just a step up from being called poor. I am sorry but this is not fair at all. Mexico needs to take care of their own or start sending tons of money over to us to pay for their people.

Most other things I agree with the Democrats on. These are the two issues I am constantly fighting for because they are what I have to deal with on every day, day in and day out. Does that make me less of a Democrat than others? I don't think so, but I will say that the Democrats are not the same party I registered with 40 years ago. And yes, maybe it is time for them to start thinking about what they stand for. I am totally against Neo-Cons and what all they stand for because they wish to take away social security in its entirety, in my opinion and they wish to take away most social services that help people. I just want to see these same social services only given to American citizens or to people who are legally in this country. We can't afford to take care of all countries and all people of the world.

So you tell me...Am I a terrible person?

[stavka]

17. Hope not, I consider myself one!

[Lone_Wolf_Moderate]

18. Well, I'm a moderate Democrat,

so I'd have to say no, you're not alone.

[mandyky]

30. I like moderate Dems and Repubs

Lincoln Chaffee is great! John McCain can be okay. I like moderate dems unless they are like Zell Miller. I would not elect a moderate, like Joe Lieberman, for Prez though.

I think what folks dislike here at DU is when moderates call people like us the crazies of our party. It's bad enough when the GOP says we're not mainstream, it is even harder to hear that from someone in your own party.

[robcon]

39. I'm a moderate Dem, aka, a Clinton Democrat.

I LOVE Bill Clinton, and would vote for him a dozen times if he could run. I hope Hillary runs in '08.

[jamboi]

41. I'm a moderate Green. I believe in working together w/ reasonable people.

I think extremists on either side like to fight w/ all who are less "pure" in their ideology than themselves, and are therefore basically impractical.

[bvar22]

43. I am ABSOLUTELY AGAINST...

...any policy that transfers more wealth to the already rich.

I am ABSOLUTELY AGAINST any policy that gives more political power and less accountability to Corporate Management.

I am ABSOLUTELY AGAINST any policy that promotes Corporate Profits over the Environment and Human Rights.

The people that support these policies are my political enemies.

[Bucky]

44. Thanks for bringing this up, DemGirl7

I'm a liberal about some things, a moderate about others. On the subject of balancing the budget I'm damn conservative and George Bush is the bleeding green liberal. Labels are crap. Some people want to run others out the Democratic Party for not being pure or ideological enough, but I think those people are very few.

I'd wager that most of the inflammatory anti-moderate and unthinking posts made round here are by Freepers and ConUndergrounders who are trolling to keep us attacking each other. If not all, at least a preponderance of liberals are really quite open-minded about how big and successful they want their party to be.

[JohnKleeb]

45. as long as they share my common principles and main goal

We're cool. A lot of the people who are dems I know in class are self described moderates.

[loyalsister]

47. I'm with you

I like the moderates very much. One thing that people on the sidelines are not aware of is that it's all about deal making. I do this at the state level, so I can speak from experience.
Moderates are great! They know all about walking a fence, and they know how to make a conceptual juxtaposition come together in legislation. Usually it will need eventual tinkering, but it often serves an excellent immediate purpose.
In the current climate, we're clearly not going to get everything we want. Kicking and screaming doesn't get the job done in politics. If we had beem obstructionist, we might have blocked something allies on the other side wanted. Then, we have screwed ourselves with spite politics.
The job of our moderates is to carve out deals with the moderates on the other side.
Last time around, it was judges. They actually helped us block some judges. We had to give up plenty, but we accomplished more than I ever hoped. This time will be more difficult.

[tx_dem41]

51. Now is not the time to divide ourselves.

If someone calls themselves a Democrat, and does not attack the Democratic party or its platform (I'm talking about you, Zell), they are welcome in our party. I would hope at this moment in time, we would all agree with that. If not, move aside, and let others lead.

[Q]

52. I have no problem with 'moderate' Democrats...

...but I'm not so sure the angst against them is because of their moderate stances. It's their appeasement of totalitarian policies and illegal, aggressive wars that's the problem.

What's disturbing is that many conservative, moderate Democrats mask their Bush* enabling in attacks against those who call them on it.