Disturbing thread by a concerned young Repub -- recruiting in churches.

[skids]

Just caught this rising up the ranks on technorati. It's pretty disturbing.

Probably there is a source closer to the root, but this is the link technorati had. Sorry if this is a dupe, then I missed it.

http://shlonkombakazay.blogspot.com/2005/02/efficient-version-holy-st-its-fascist.html

[GCP]

1. Wow, what an interesting story

and read some of the comments to his post. At least he had the intelligence to realize what was going on and make compariisons to Nazi Germany - and the guts to own up to what's happening here.

I vote this to the greatest thread page.

[LynnTheDem]

2. VERY Nazi Germany

Hitler's laughing his ass off.

[tom_paine]

26. Don't forget waiting to congratulate the Busheviks in Hell

Hopefully Bush and Rove will room right next to Hitler and goebbels, where they belong.

[TreasonousBastard]

3. Very scary stuff...

and it looks like it's not stopping.

[noonwitch]

4. I give the writer a lot of credit for his clear thinking about it

It's one thing to honor military service people in church, it's a whole different matter to let the military recruit there.

The flags mixing with the images of Jesus should be disturbing to any christian, liberal or conservative.

[ScreamingMeemie]

5. There was a thread on this, but it's been archived, and it's good to

bring this up again. :hi:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=3093154

[Just Me]

6. I don't blame him for feeling both confused and angry.

The whole event is not only disturbing but a clear sign of just how far the present insanity may be carried.

We have got to take back our country!

[NewYorkerfromMass]

7. Hanging the American flag over the cross

this is sacreligous, but hey, they aren't good Christians anyways...

[fishwax]

36. Often they are more Americanist than they are Christian

It's weird how some fundamentalists seem to think Americanliness is next to godliness. America and Christianity seem to be metonymically connected for many of them, somehow, as if one could not exist without the other.

[HeeBGBz]

8. Totally creepy

Did you read the comments on his blog? Wish they'd ship all those morans to Iraq and leave the churches alone.

[oldlady]

9. yowch! that banner...

with the tagline "Men's Night Out: Honoring the US Military - formerly Wild Game Night" ---formerly-- wild --- game ---night??? geez got a taste for a new kind of flesh guys?
sicko

[skids]

10. The "What would Jesus Do?" part was pretty funny...

Just had to point this out for those just grazing:

'Jesus himself only got mad once. It was because merchants were using the church to sell their wares, he flipped their tables, seized a whip, and attacked them. This day the answer to “what would Jesus do?” is grab one of the m-16s laying around and start kneecapping.'

[Ellen Forradalom]

17. That moran needs to read his bible

and get a little historical background.

It was the Temple in Jerusalem, not "the church," and they were moneychangers, not "merchants". Why moneychangers? In Temple-era Judaism there were three pilgrimage feasts. That meant Jews from all over were coming to Jerusalem at that time, and had to exchange money to buy what they needed for their own sustenance and for Temple offerings. Jesus' point of view on this reflected the tension between the Sadducees, guardians of the traditional sacrificial religion, and the Pharisees, the forerunners of modern rabbi, of which Jesus was one. Jesus would not assuredly have not gone about kneecapping people.

Furthermore, if he's that pissed about people using the church to sell their wares, the place to express it is the nearest Christian bookstore or Amy Grant concert.

[aeolian]

28. Way to split hairs and avoid the real point. (n/t)

[Ellen Forradalom]

34. .......Which is?

Care to elucidate?

Historical context is not "splitting hairs."

[NewYorkerfromMass]

35. Umm... the point is Jesus would not have shot anyone

either to try and kill them or "kneecap" them. Got it?

[Ellen Forradalom]

37. Yes, of course.

I was going to put that in my post, but edited it out.

I was mentioning that the guy's idiocy is evident long before you reach his last sentence.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

11. Here's the (ahem) "discussion" thread

the last post cross links this DU thread:

Seems like a normal function to me, we have been having the exact same type of functions for years in the South West. Sometimes it is at a church, or where ever space is available.

As far as invading Iran, Syria, or anywhere else. Time will tell, but the world is not going to let "the bomb" be available to Islamic terrorisst or countries that help them.

Sorry, but I don't understand your concern.

Papa Ray
West Texas
USA
Papa Ray | Email | 14.02.05 - 8:34 am | #

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papa ray: i think the fact that thatere are loads of folks like you who don't think it's wrong is what is wrong.

to the author of the blog: you know, at least when the germans did this you could get a decent beer...
kevin lyda | Email | 14.02.05 - 2:07 pm | #

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You say, "Holy ####, it is fascist picture story time." Yep, I believe you are an islamo-fascist telling a story with pictures. You sure got that right. That is all you got right.

Amen Papa Ray. This is nothing but an Islamo-fascist ranting against Christianity and our great Christian Nation, which incidentally, is the light of Liberty for the rest of the world. Amazing that they speak against it, don't you think?

We are the last bastion of true Liberty, yet they tear it down in the name of democracy. Democracy is our demise. We are a Constitutional Republic, a Christian Constitutional Republic, like it or not. A republic is rule by law while a democracy is nothing more than mob rule which always leads to tyranny, which we are ovserving right now. Personally, I hope that Christian churches worldwide pick up the "standard" and take down the enemy. Let the games begin, heh heh heh.

"So shall they fear the name of the Lord from the west, and his glory from the rising of t
Mario | Email | 14.02.05 - 7:42 pm | #

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"So shall they fear the name of the Lord from the west, and his glory from the rising of the sun. When the enemy shall come in like a flood, the Spirit of the Lord shall lift up a standard against him." --Isaiah 59:19
Mario | Email | 14.02.05 - 7:44 pm | #

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Mario - we are a Constitutional Republic. We are not a Christian Constitutional Republic. You may come after me - and the author of the original post, and anyone else - with slurs of Islamo-fascism, and even with a gun. But you'll still be wrong. And you'll still be a reactionary crypto-fascist thug.
Matt | Email | Homepage | 14.02.05 - 10:26 pm | #

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You don't hang ANYTHING over the crucifix. It is the focus, not an inconvenient bit of wall ornament.

The U. S. form of govornment is not particularly relevant to this - there are no laws apparently being broken, this does not appear to be an official govornment function.

This is a matter of aesthetics, more than anything. And it is very, very ugly.
Nax | Email | Homepage | 14.02.05 - 11:16 pm | #

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I find this use of the church rather disgusting. IMO it is desecrating the God they claim to worship.

I am not even religuous and it bothers me. God is supposed to be bigger than any one single nation, how dare they utilize Him!
Sophie Amrain | 16.02.05 - 1:02 am | #

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Seems to me that calling this a Men's Night Out, gearing it towards fathers and sons, and getting everyone worked up into a religiously violent fervor all so the sons will be compelled to join the military, either by their own emotional reaction or pressure from their fathers, is not only deceptive (what the f*ck else is new though?), but also should be an insult to everyone with any ounce of respect for churches and what transpires inside.

p.s. to the ignorant jarheads calling people fascists: fascism is a CONSERVATIVE movement, not liberal. The Islamic terrorists have much more in common with your worldview than they do with liberals. Both of you hate democracy because it could lead to a society where your extreme set of morals are not codified into law. You're all fascists cut from the same cloth.
s1rkull | Email | Homepage | 16.02.05 - 5:35 pm | #

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Simmer down. It was a "Men's Night Out" with a theme of Military Appreciation. Nobody who went into this thing was unaware of this fact. Even the author was aware. So anytime someone has a function to honor the military, it's a sinister recruiting tool? Give me a break.
J.P. | Email | 17.02.05 - 9:55 am | #

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Thanks for an enlightening article. While it's encouraging to see a good Christian man who is as appalled as I am at the invasion of our churches, it's very depressing to see people calling you an "Islamo-fascist" for daring to speak out against our government.

It's never easy being right. Keep the faith and God bless you.
Liane Bianco | 17.02.05 - 3:31 pm | #

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to the ignorant jarheads calling people fascists: fascism is a LIBERAL movement, not conservative. The Islamic terrorists have much more in common with your worldview than they do with conservatives. Both of you hate democracy because it could lead to a society where your extreme set of morals are not codified into law. You're all fascists cut from the same cloth.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x3128024
GDL | Email | Homepage | 17.02.05 - 4:38 pm | #

http://www.haloscan.com/comments/liminal/110828983332470478/

[jhain]

12. 5 th annual!!

Let's see- that means the 1st Annual was in 01.



http://www.pmbcmensnightout.com/

[skids]

13. BTW, this reminded me of some lyrics.

A Perfect Circle's album "eMOTIVe" is pretty unique. Covers by a metal band of songs that normally wouldn't be played in that genre, along with a couple originals with extremely <i>scary</i> lyrics. They purposefully held off releasing it until after the election. If you haven't heard it, check it out.

Anyway, this link is the lyrics to the song it reminded me of.

http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/aperfectcircle/letshaveawar.html

[bloom]

15. That's what I was thinking.... but it used to be

more of a Hunting-type wild dinners Men's night.

I think this variety is fairly recent - might be the 1st. :shrug:

[jdj]

14. amazing, ridiculous, unbelievable.

fuckin-A.

thanks for posting.

kind of takes your breath away.

Onward Christian soldiers indeed.

This is what they have been waiting for their whole lives.

[bloom]

16. Nazis and the Church...

This inspired me to do some research and I found this. (There is quite a long essay if you go to the link).


It was especially these "German Christians" who pushed for a national church under one bishop and one Fuehrer. Once Hitler consolidated his power in the course of 1933, their influence grew tremendously. They had members in every provincial church-governing body and were openly supported by members of the Nazi party, many of whom now joined the church. It was the patriotic thing to do. The church was not only a religious body, but also a bulwark of morals and of German traditions. Storm-troopers and Hitler Youth came to church in full uniform. What an impressive sight to see more than a hundred young men march to church on Sunday in uniform and sit in the front pews. Mass marriages were rigged; army bands in SS uniform played. The spectacles drew many to the churches.


http://spindleworks.com/library/peet/german.htm

[Ellen Forradalom]

18. And thus the source of Dietrich Bonhoeffer's trouble

He was deeply opposed to this and founded the opposition, the "Confessing Church." He eventually paid with his life for this.

[bloom]

24. Yes -the essay discusses "confessing churches" also....

In 1934 opposition in the churches began to be united. It was the year of the free synods and of the establishment of confessing churches. Free synods were assemblies that came together without the permission of the official church-governing bodies and bishop Mueller. These synods were first held separately on behalf of the three groups constituting the Evangelical Church: Lutheran, Reformed, and United. Later, with Barmen II in May 1934, the three groups joined together in one synod.

Free synods appear to have been organized primarily to protest the dictatorial acts of the Reich bishop, and to protect the purity of the churches' doctrine as stated in the Old and New Testament and summarized in the Lutheran and Reformed confessions of the Reformation. The reassertion of the old doctrine was directed not in the last place against the religious policies and ideas of the ruling Nazis and those of the "German Christians."

Member churches of these free synods were called confessing churches. The intention of the confessing churches was not to separate themselves from the official national church body; they maintained that they, and not Mueller's establishment or the "German Christians," were the legitimate continuation of the old churches. In fact, of course, there were two church bodies: the confessing one, and the official one that was under the supervision of the Reich bishop and the government. (There were also mixed churches, where some of the members were "confessing" and some were not.)

The "confessing church members got together and came up with the:

"Barmen Declaration" Thesis 5 read:

We reject the false doctrine that the State . . . should and could become the single and totalitarian order of human life, thus fulfilling the Church's vocation as well.

We reject the false doctrine that the Church . . . should and could appropriate the characteristics, the tasks, and the dignity of the State, thus itself becoming an organ of the State.


...Even so, the Barmen Declaration was not a political manifesto. Political issues were avoided, and Hitler's crimes were not mentioned. Not a word was said, for example, about the Jews. This was a terrible omission in many of the pre-Barmen declarations as well as in Barmen itself.

<snip>

During the war the pastorate of the confessing churches was spread dangerously thin. The letters and stories of imprisoned Christians provide a moving tribute to the few but dedicated church members who withstood not only false doctrine, but also a diabolical regime.

[BanzaiBonnie]

20. Hey bloom, can you send

that quote and the link to the young man who posted those pics?

It would be confirmation that he is right in feeling squeamish about this spectacle.

[Lisabtrucking]

19. I put my two sense into that one. Just another reason not to go too church

[PST]

21. they're carrying machine guns inside a church

I'm sure the good Lord Jesus would appreciate that.

[PA Democrat]

22. Maybe this church will receive an extra share of

funding for "faith-based" initiatives for helping to promote Bush's militaristic agenda.

Even more frightening were some of the comments on that blog from the creeps who approve of this sort of mixing of religion and state.

[NNguyenMD]

23. hypocritical reaction if you ask me, the Kid's both a supporter of the war

and Shrub yet he reacts this way to a recruitment stunt, sounds like he just doesn't want to die to me.

[GCP]

25. No, I think he's losing the blinkers after that little demonstration

Gott mit Uns.

[tom_paine]

27. Yep. VERY nazi Germany

It's coming, people. Like th brief coppery taste of rain before a summer thunderstorm, can you feel it, smell it, taste it?

It may be in a Kinder and Gentler form or not, but it is COMING.

Orwellian Totalitarianism mixed with Medeval Feudalism.

A bad combination.

And it's COMING.

[MADem]

29. Yep....get ready to do one of three things

1. Fight back.
2. RUN!!!
3. Be assimilated.

Who ever thought it could happen here? It's a very sad and dangerous era for democracy.

[Swamp Rat]

31. !

[EFerrari]

30. This is what "faith based initiative" means, decoded. Good catch. nt

[NewYorkerfromMass]

32. Fucking nuts

This is now bumped off the greatest page, but I want more to see it.

[DU GrovelBot]

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