Please DU, go to war on the bankruptcy bill - THIS IS WORTH THE FIGHT ....

[moggie12]

The Washington Post had a front page story today showing what a hypocritical piece of CRAP the bankruptcy bill is.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A10361-2005Mar5.html

Please DUers, can you please help defeat this horrendously unfair bill?? It's coming up for a vote on Tuesday. The Republicans -- joined by Joe Biden and 3 other turncoat Dem Senators -- spent last week defeating amendments that would've made this bill more fair, including amendments that would have given some measure of protection to people whose indebtedness was caused by huge medical bills, identity theft, or the need to care for a sick family member!! They even voted against a so-called "homestead exemption" that would've helped the elderly and those driven to bankruptcy by medical expenses keep their homes! Meanwhile, they voted to allow wealthy people facing bankruptcy actions to continue to use "asset protection trusts" to shelter their money!! Does this not seem hypocritical and unfair? There are more amendments coming up this week, including Kennedy and Santorum's minumum wage amendments and Schumer's abortion-related one, which has killed the bill before and may do so again if the Dems can get enough votes. All is not yet lost!

THIS IS A JOB FOR DU!!! DU helped convince Barbara Boxer to stand up and contest the vote, helped get dozens of Dem Senators to vote against Gonzales, and helped get Howard Dean installed as DNC Chair. Didn't all three of them look like lost causes at the outset?? But the grassroots got organized and raised holy hell and made things happen. WE CAN DO THE SAME ON THE BANKRUPTCY BILL. And what the hell, it's better to do something than nothing! We shouldn't sit here whining about the corporations running America and then not try to do something about it: This goddamn bankruptcy bill was WRITTEN BY THE CREDIT CARD COMPANIES -- Ted Kennedy said so right on the floor of the Senate!!

PLEASE TAKE THE TIME TO DO THE FOLLOWING:

1) Fax, e-mail and call Joe Biden and tell him he's got no chance in hell of winning the Democratic nomination if he keeps actively pushing this bill (he's a backer because MBNA and other credit card companies are headquartered in Delaware). Senate contact info: http://www.senate.gov/general/contact_information/senators_cfm.cfm

2) Get on the case of the other 3 turncoat Dem Senators -- Tom Carper (Delaware's other Senator), Tim Johnson of South Dakota (Citibank's operations are headquartered there, as well as other credit card companies), and Ben Nelson of Nebraska.

3) Fax, e-mail and call your Senators -- whether Republican or Democrat -- and tell them how strongly you feel. The Republicans have been voting en masse against all the Democratic amendments -- even moderate Republicans like Snowe, Chafee, etc. (Jeffords, to his credit, has voted with the Dems). How can these people have voted not to protect those faced with enormous medical bills, identity theft or old people forced to care for a sick spouse?? IT'S FREAKING MIND-BOGGLING that these Repubs voted against these very reasonable amendments!!! Call them on the carpet for it!!!! Turn up the heat on these guys!!

4) If you haven't already e-mailed your Senators, this is an easy-to-use site that let's you e-mail both Senators and your House Rep at once: http://ga3.org/campaign/senateindebt Another sample e-mail is below. Please e-mail, but also please consider making phone calls on Monday!!


Please DU, spread the word to your friends & e-mail lists -- and keep this post kicked so people see it!!! Thanks!!


********

The rest of this is additional info about, 1) turncoat Dems votes on Dem amendments, 2) a sample e-mail for you to use, 3) background info sites if you want more info about the bankruptcy bill:

1) On the 11 Democratic-sponsored amendments:

-BIDEN voted "No" to 7, "Yes" to 2, and was "absent" for 2
-CARPER voted "No" to 10, and "Yes" to 1
-JOHNSON "No" to 8, "Yes" to 3
-NELSON voted "No"to all eleven

Note: All four of these guys voted against the Dem-sponsored amendment to protect soldiers and veterans facing bankruptcy but FOR the Republican's version of the amendment, which passed.

Will post full details of which amendments Biden, Carper and Johnson voted for and against in the Delaware and South Dakota state forums.

2) Sample e-mail/fax to Republican Senators (and the turncoat Dems):

Re: Senate Bill 256

I am appalled by your votes against amendments to the bankruptcy bill now under consideration by the Senate. The bill as currently written sweeps away protections for worthy and unworthy debtors alike: Senior citizens who have huge medical bills are treated just as harshly as 30-year-old yuppies who run up their credit cards for no good reason! Instead of rectifying this glaring defect in the bill, you voted against amendments designed to protect those whose financial difficulties occurred through no fault of their own, for example, those whose indebtedness was caused by huge medical bills, identity theft, or the need to care for a sick family member!! At the same time, you voted against an amendment that would have limited the amount of money wealthy people can put into trusts to shield their assets from bankruptcy. You also voted against the so-called "homestead exemption", which would have helped the elderly and those driven to bankruptcy by medical expenses keep their homes. Meanwhile, wealthy people facing financial sanctions can legally shield their money by buying huge homes in Florida and Texas, states whose laws protect homes, regardless of the value, from being touched by the bankruptcy courts!! Your votes appear to me to be extremely hypocritical and unfair. Every last cent will be wrung from average Americans who've encountered severe problems, while those with substantial assets are allowed to shelter them?? Fat-cat executives who've driven their companies into bankruptcy will get to keep their mansions and their money while hard-working Americans who have had the misfortune to become sick or had some other tragedy befall them will be treated like irresponsible spendthrifts?? I can't understand how you could have voted against these amendments. How could you have voted to treat your fellow citizens this way?


3) Links:

Good general background piece:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A15399-2005Feb10.html

WP editorial:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A64440-2005Mar1.html

Article about the one financial company not in favor of the bill:
http://www.delawareonline.com/newsjournal/business/2005/03/05ingheadbankrupt.html

[Nothing Without Hope]

1. I would suggest you change your title to add what it's about

This is definitely worth a fight, but you'll miss a lot of people by not being more specific, in my opinion.

Good luck in this!

[liberalhistorian]

2. I agree, changing the title

would be a good idea. And thanks for posting, I'll bookmark the thread to keep all the info together. Nothing has riled up DU like this horrendous, unbelievable bill and I think if you change the title more people will respond and we can get a good groundswell going.

[moggie12]

7. done - thanks for the suggestion

I put "Bankruptcy bill" in there. Actually, I was originally going to title this, "Are Joe Biden and three other Dem Senators gay?". Then in the text I was going to say, "Not that I know of, but Biden and three Dem Senators (blah, blah, etc.) I figured more people would look at the post, but then I decided they'd probably just get mad at me. Previous posts I've put up about taking action on the bankruptcy bill have only gotten 20 or so responses, so I was getting desperate.....

[FlemingsGhost]

3. Pppffffttt ... Let Americans sit in their dirty diaper.

At least gays can't marry, right?

Tough love.

[slor]

4. I want to fight it...

but there is also a part of me that says, let the people suffer (yes, I know it may be me someday) so they will know that their vote is NOT to be taken lightly. That when selecting the President of the friggin' country, one need not worry about gay marriage or abortion, or any other dumbass reason people found to vote for what was so obviously the wrong fucking choice.

[moggie12]

8. yeah, it would serve them right, but will they make the connection??

Ppart of me also says let the country go to hell in a handbasket and then they'll wake up, but I think the GOP propaganda machine will somehow make it look like the Dems fault!!! I think this bankruptcy bill is the kind of economic populist issue that it's worth raising hell about -- those hypocrites voted against letting rich people shelter income!! Jeesshhh!!

[Hardrada]

10. When did they last make a connection about anything?

When did the White Sox last win a pennant?

[moggie12]

11. Yes, I agree, they're too dumb (& uniformed) to see what's going on

It doesn't help that the bankruptcy bill has barely been covered on the TV news. The papers have been covering it, but most people don't read newspapers anymore.

When the middle and lower classes fall into complete economic distress, which they inevitably will given Bush's policies, will they be smart enough to figure out why? I doubt it.

[liberalhistorian]

26. Actually, that's not true.

Someone posted a Free Republic thread yesterday where, to our amazement, most of the posters said the exact same things we're saying about it, especially about how most bankruptcies are due to medical bills or job losses and how angry they were about it. And one even said that if consumers are put on the hook like that, then there should be no "golden parachute" for companies, no government bailouts. Perfect! And most conservatives I know are furious about this and letting their reps know that.

[Hardrada]

28. Excellent since then the politicians

Will find themselves vulnerable on this issue vis a vis their relections!! And perhaps will vote in the public interest.

[Terre]

27. Excuse me?

Let the people suffer?! I certainly hope you put that part of yourself away, and QUICK!

Just curious, but does that part of you feel that it includes those of us that voted for Kerry?

Even if it may be "you someday", for me it's a NOW issue, and not because of credit cards, but because we are uninsured, and looking at over $11,000 in medical bills that we cannot afford to pay.

I wouldn't want anyone to go through the stress of living day-to-day, trying to make ends meet, while having collectors at your throat non-stop - be they Repub or Dem.

So - FIGHT IT!!

[liberalhistorian]

36. THANK YOU!

Couldn't have said it better myself. I cannot believe there are people here who would want everyone to suffer just for political advantage.

And some advice, from a paralegal who prepares bankruptcy petitions-file NOW! There's still time before the House passes it and before it takes affect, several months probably, so you need to file NOW, ASAP. And as for the fucking collectrolls-notify them in writing that they are NOT to contact you by telephone anymore, period, and they must comply with that in accordance with the Fair Debt Collection Act. If they don't, they're subject to fines and penalties and they don't want that.

[Terre]

37. And Thank YOU!

I had thought of filing myself, but have decided against it since we also are employees of our own tiny S-Corp construction business, and I'm sure that will complicate matters.

I did not know that I could personally write to the collectors and tell them to stop calling - I thought that only an actual filing or letter from a bankruptcy attorney could do that. I will write up the letters this afternoon, after I try to get our only source of transportation running again.

Ain't LIFE grand?!

[liberalhistorian]

39. Yes, you can definitely

notify creditors to stop calling you and they must comply if they don't want the feds breathing down their necks. Most of them do. Here are some things to remember:

Your request MUST be in writing, it's not valid if it's made over the telephone.
You must send the written request to each creditor separately, referencing the account number and balance. Remember that the request is only good for that particular account; if you have multiple accounts with the same creditor, you must make a written request for EACH account.
I would strongly suggest that you send each letter by certified mail. I realize that might be a bit expensive, but it's worth it since you can prove that they actually received it if they continue to bother you by phone. A less expensive alternative would be to fax the letters and then keep a copy of the fax transmittal letter that showed they received the fax.

[moggie12]

38. I'm sorry for your situation, Terre

I hope things work out okay for you.

[Terre]

45. Thank you again

To moggie for your good wishes.

And to liberalhistorian for your invaluable help. Just got home so I'll write the letters and get them out tomorrow, and after that start thumbing through the phone book for an attorney nearby.

Ya know what's so funny - if it wasn't actually sad, I really wanted to pay these bills, albeit slowly - but because of this pending law, am I now going to take action in filing.

My credit is screwed anyway. I'll hold back, and not include one credit card for emergencies. The only other CC I have a balance on is about $500 to MBNA. I wasn't going to include them when I first pondered a medical bankruptcy, but now they are #1 on my list.

Good Luck to anyone going through the same thing, and for those that are not - be prepared.

[Nothing Without Hope]

5. Thanks for changing the title - Recommended! n/t

[The Whiskey Priest]

6. The BR Bill is only one jaw of trap being baited for the Middle-class

the other is the non-responsibility bill limiting punitive damages for defective services, products and goods.

The Upper class is bent of breaking the middle-class and reducing the nation to serfdom.

The working people must rethink consumerism, or else, condemn themselves to a life more brutish than it currently is and will become.

[Just Me]

9. kick

[mcscajun]

12. Done, and done. And recommended. :)

I gave Joe Biden hell and told him we won't forget who does this to us if this bill passes.

Right after I sent the form e-mail to my home senators (Corzine and Lautenberg).


Thanks for the post!

[demnan]

13. Put a face on this issue

To me, it's the elderly lady I bought my condo from. She went into partial bankruptcy, but because property values had increased so much, she was able to sell her condo and get some money out to make a fresh start. We're talking about a 70's widow paying off her late husband's medical bills while helping her adult daughter and two kids. She missed a few payments on her mortgage (I suspect she has early Alzheimer's too, just from talking to her). And that's how she ended up in bankruptcy. Frankly I don't care whether she's Democrat or Republican but seeing her situation just makes me think.

If this bill had been in place last summer, this poor soul would have lost everything, probably ending up as a dependent on one of her other daughters.

We all know someone who is one or two paychecks away from bankruptcy. How many paychecks are any of us away from bankruptcy? I'm going to do everything I can to see that this evil bill does not pass.

[moggie12]

17. Yes, you're absolutely right -- DUers have posted some of their stories

And they break your heart. Illnesses of family members, job loss, and divorce seem to be the major causes of bankruptcy. Some of the job losses were due to outsourcing, which is cruelly ironic: Lose your job due to corporate greed and then become an indentured servant to the credit card companies. Nice, huh?? Great country we live in these days....

[Deja Q]

14. Bidet proving he's a DINO again, eh? Man, our system is headed toward

annihilation... :-(

[madmark]

15. Letters have been sent to my senators

If a Senator actually read the bill and spoke to a bankruptcy judge (including republican ones) they would realize awful the bill is and vote against it. That was the jist of the letters.

[Nothing Without Hope]

16. A group of Christian lawyers is saying the law would violate the Bible

see this thread:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=1287415

They say it goes against the precepts of forgiveness of debts.

To me, it smacks a bit of bringing back DEBTORS' PRISON. Possible loss by default has always been part of the loan process and the excuse for the profit margin in it. And the ability to start over when brought low by insurmountable troubles has good reasons for support.

[autorank]

18. My letters to Allen & Warner - one excellent line for your use/amusement

Dear Senator Warner:

I believe that people need to show personal responsibility and that bankruptcy is a last resort. However, the bankruptcy bill before congress is a 1/2 measure. Credit card companies give out lines of credit that are often unsolicited. My daughter, a student, gets offers of $5-10 thousand dollars several times a year. These companies need to be restricted and held accountable in the legislation. The way things are now with the bill it's like a drug law that punishes only users while ignoring the dealers.

I'm sure you will do your best on this bill.

The Hon. autorank

---------------------

BTW: These guys are quite conservative, which explains the 'ass kissing as opposed to my generally abrasive tone. I do when I write them. They always respond and they can't rule me out as a DUer (haha) or something.

[moggie12]

20. That's so true -- the pushers are being rewarded,

while their victims are being punished -- every damn last nickel squeezed out of those who already hurting -- boy, this bill really pisses me off!!!

On a lighter note, I hope you are enjoying the "Honorable" title I conferred on you late one night here on DU (although I still shudder to think what you would have demanded if you had won more than "Honorable Mention" in my "Name the New Tucker Carlson Show" contest). Still and all, you deserve it, for among other reasons always being among the first to respond to whatever activist-oriented post anybody puts up here on DU. You know what they say, if the title fits, wear it.

[autorank]

21. Honorable moogie12

:hi:

[moggie12]

22. That's great ,but you spelled my name wrong

Figures.

Oh well, at least I got the "Honorable". :)


On edit:

BTW, your letter to Warner talked about your daughter getting credit card applications -- my 15-year-old son got one Friday hawking some kind of "student credit card" -- had to rip it out of his hands while he was feverishly trying to sign-up.

[autorank]

23. HAHA...car, x-boxes galore, lots of dvds, cds...you're too strict

[salin]

24. Point being... since when did the US government

get in the business of reducing risk for businesses? If businesses act in an irresponsible way, offering huge lines of credit to poor risks - then they should deal with it the old fashioned way - count it as a cost of doing business. The predatory lending practices are a CHOICE of businesses to pursue. If they believe that the benefits (profits) outweight the risks (and losses - due to lending to people who are big credit risks), then so be it - they calculate that into their business plan. If the costs are too high, then they should stop offering credit and loans to poor risks. In the bills scenario there is 100% personal responsibility (understood), but worse than zero corporate responsibility (eg they get the force of the govt to underwrite - and encourage their extending of - credit/loans to poor risks). Frankly, this will just make the lenders be even more irresponsible - and will worsen the problem.

[Jacobin]

41. That's it in a nutshell

One of the biggest welfare programs for business in the history of the country.

Credit card lender no longer need to do underwriting. They don't need to find out of they should lend money to anyone.

And if someone defaults on a credit card or other debt THE GOVERNMENT collects the money for them with a Chapter 13 Trustee!!

Lovely, no?

[salin]

47. Check out what I got in the mail today...

Opening line (Their text in Blue):

Dear ____ (aw they use my first name as a nice personal touch - to make me think that they know someone who knows me personally),

When your home loan was funded, you were qualified to recieve up to XXX or more in cash. Our low interest second mortgages require No Equity (their emphasis) and you may borrow up to 150% of the appraised value of your home. The application can be completed with an Easy 5 minute phone calll....

(further down)
Special features of our NO EQUITY loan program includes:

*No Equity Required
*Apply by Phone (No Cost)
*24 Hour Pre-Approval
*Quick Funding
*May Be Tax Deductable
*Loan Amounts to $100,000+
*Less than Perfect Credit is OK!
OK to Pay Off Existing 2nd Mortgage
*Income Verification May Not Be Required
*Consolidate Debt and Lower Payments
*Pay Off Deliquent Tax Bills
*1st, 2nd & 3rd Mortgages Available.



Some background. I bought a home within the past year. An old fashioned sorta person - I bought the home outright - NO MORTGAGE. So note their first lines again. Assumes I was financed, tells me that AT the time of financing I was qualified to take out a whole lot more, and that even if I don't yet have a penny of equity in the house they will loan me money in excess of what I paid. The use of the assumption of knowledge of info per when I was financed - may give a reader the sense that they really have some inside info. Since I didn't get financing it is clear that they used records (purchases? new property tax payers?) to get my name (back to that first name use - aw - how nice).

Tell me that this isn't foolish as a business practice... 24 approval, proof of earnings not necessarily required, no equity required (they emphasize this in huge type all over the letter), and willingness to offer this sorta deal for 2nd and 3rd mortgages.

If this lender wants to take on that risk - let them figure the risk into their business plan/costs.

Fortunately, as an economist's daughter - I am somewhat financially literate. This cr*p doesn't strike me as a "great deal" that can get me needed $ right now. Heck my investment plan was to alleviate $ going to a mortgage and put it instead into investments. It has taken more than a few years to get myself into this position - and I found an incredible deal on the house (probably got it for more than 30,000 less than its value - and having put some $ into it - I probably paid less than half I could get for it today, less than a year after buying.) Given my mind set (no debt... lower monthly living expenses in order to save) there is nothing I could do but derisively laugh when receiving this letter (from Texas, btw). But if one were in rather desperate financial circumstances, I could see how some might fall for it. IMO some predatory credit practices need to be illegal - NOT enabled as is current law, and certainly not encouraged as the current bill would do.

[Jacobin]

48. Millions of people will be stuck with those things

and no way out.

the trap has closed on middle americans who haven't been cautious and prudent.

the fun is about to end.

[salin]

51. Makes me very sad

I wish I could sit in judgement... ha ha I was wise and you weren't... but that isn't true.

I just chose low paying nonprofit work out of college and got used to living on very little money. As friends began to buy, and I learned that their "new" car would end up costing them several thousand over the sticker price due to financing... I felt a little bit better about not being able to buy new in the first place (at the time I thought, I might have to buy used, but at least I am not going to end up paying several thousand more...) I then watched my peers buy houses, that in my financial range (still working nonprofits, and later back to grad school) was something I couldn't even consider. Then by the late twenties (just before going to grad school) hearing some of the same peers almost lamentfully comment that they regretted that they weren't financially able to pursue work that they would really like (always said in a very slightly condescending tone - to their poor friend who was doing very rewarding work and loving it) because they were already in such a financial trap that they had to keep to their jobs just to make payments... All that put together - along with the pride of getting through a very good, but very expensive grad program with NO debt - let my depression era father's lessons sink in. Long way of saying, a slightly different turn or twist in life earlier - and their for the Grace of God go I...

One of my siblings and her family are perilously leveraged. As are many of my friends. I hope my fears of some very harsh economic turmoil in the future, that could knock those on the edge over, are unfounded. But the attempt to kill SS and the numerous economic initiatives from bushco and the right (not the least being this abomination of a bankruptcy bill) suggest that if such turmoil comes - there will be very little to protect many, many americans.

[Jacobin]

19. Can you believe that the Credit Union association is supporting this?

I am outraged and amazed at this:

http://www.cuna.org/newsnow/05/wash030305-5.html

These people are normally not so RW. Anybody know what's up with that?


Here's my email to Biden:

Dear Senator Biden:

I urge you to speak to JUST ONE bankruptcy judge before you vote on the bankruptcy 'reform' bill before congress. JUST ONE. IN fact, ask the most right wing bankruptcy judge you can find what he thinks of this bill.

YOu know what? He will tell you that it is bad in so many different ways that you shouldn't vote for it. There is not enough time and space to describe the provisions that are counter-productive, mean-spirited and wrong about this bill.

Pleae, before you vote for this bill, ASK JUST ONE bankruptcy judge what he thinks about it.

I'm exceedingly disappointed that you have taken the position that you have, and can tell you that any presidential aspirations you might have will be hurt BADLY if this bill passes with your vote. The blowback will be enormous over the next two years.

ASK ONE, JUST ONE bankruptcy judge what he thinks about this bill.

Apologizing for my repetitiveness, I am,
yours respectfully

ME

[moggie12]

42. Great e-mail -- that the bankrupcty judges think this stinks is telling

Of course, the Senators beholden to the credit card industry care not a whit about that.

I'm astounded that the credit unions joined in on this -- apparently, no financial institution except ING has their head on straight on this issue. There was a great artcile about ING (where I may be switching my accounts!!) if you're interested:
http://www.delawareonline.com/newsjournal/business/2005/03/05ingheadbankrupt.html

[Nothing Without Hope]

25. Great REPUBLICAN JESUS CARTOON on the bankruptcy bill

From the always-excellent progressive satirical blog, Jesus' General (http://patriotboy.blogspot.com), Saturday March 5 post -- scroll down

[moggie12]

35. LOL - Ain't that the truth! n/t

[superconnected]

29. the fact that we need to influence our congressmen instead of them already

having a brain on this is so bad it's beyond words.

I suspect they will do what the cc companies lobbiests pay them to do.

It's making me green.

[KT2000]

30. Done, done and done

this is a nightmare bill.

[Hissyspit]

31. Indentured servitude and debtor's prison...

This country is going f'ing insane. This one is still being flown in under the radar, folks.

[dray178355]

32. Just FYI

Josh Marshall as devoted a special section of his blog to the Bankruptcy bill. Here is the link. I hope I'm not duplicating, I read throught the thread and didn't see it. http://talkingpointsmemo.com/bankruptcy/

I lost my sister to illness two years ago and it destroyed us financially. It's a long, long story but we lost our house too. Filing for bankruptcy was the last thing I ever thought I'd do. I've been on my own since my parents died when I was in my teens. I've never taken welfare, or foodstamps or anything I could have gotten. I worked hard and paid my bills. But the big "B" gave me a chance at a life I didn't think I'd ever have again....and I'm not talking financially...I'm talking peace of mind. It sounds stupid but it's true.

edited for link

[moggie12]

34. Talking Points is a widely-read blog so that's great!!

Elizabeth Warren's comments on there are excellent -- too bad Congress and the media don't listen to experts who actually KNOW SOMETHING (but of course, that would get in the way of passing the credit card industry's bill...). The personal stories of people who have had to file are like many I've heard -- tragic.

[Jacobin]

33. We have one day left to try do something

[madmark]

40. kick

[Itsthetruth]

43. Filbuster: That Will Kill It!

That's what the filibuster is for. The Republicans wouldn't hesitate using that weapon against progressives.

[Joe Chi Minh]

44. What with

their intention to plunder social security and now this bankruptcy bill, it seems like they can't think of evil enough measures to satisfy their malice. The way it's going, surely, before long, you're going to have to put your Mom's under permanent armed guard, and watch out for poisoned applie pies. How to win friends and influence people...

[Jacobin]

46. Any updates from today?

[PassingFair]

49. Got a form email from Biden,

thanking me for calling him out on the impending credit card disaster. Says he only responds to his Delaware constituents. Told him I'd find a way to pull the rock all the way off and expose him utterly to the light of day.

[Jacobin]

50. Yeah. I got the robot response too

He's been bribed in a very major way and his jaw is set and he'll go over the edge on this one.

It'll come back to haunt him in two years when everyone gets fucked by this bill.