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chaz4jazz Donating Member (304 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-19-05 08:49 PM
Original message
Bush - the chemical weapon madman
Edited on Sat Mar-19-05 08:50 PM by chaz4jazz
By Chris Floyd
Published: March 18, 2005 - Moscow Times

U.S. President George W. Bush often complains about the "media filter" that distorts the true picture of his administration's accomplishments in Iraq. And he's right. For regardless of where you stand on Bush's policies in the region, it's undeniable that the political and commercial biases of the American press have consistently misrepresented the reality of the situation. Here's an excellent example. Earlier this month, the American media completely ignored an important announcement from an official of the Iraqi government concerning the oft-maligned U.S. operation to clear insurgents from the city of Fallujah last November. Although the press conference of Health Ministry investigator Dr. Khalid ash-Shaykhli was attended by representatives from The Washington Post, Knight-Ridder and more than 20 other international news outlets, nary a word of his team's thorough investigation into the truth about the battle made it through the filter's dense mesh. Once again, the American public was denied the full story of one of President Bush's remarkable triumphs.

Dr. ash-Shaykhli's findings provided confirmation of earlier reports by many other Iraqis -- reports that were also ignored by the arrogant filterers, who seem more interested in hearing from terrorists or anti-occupation extremists than ordinary Iraqis and those like Dr. ash-Shaykhli, who serve in the U.S.-backed interim government vetted and approved by President Bush. But while the media elite turn up their noses at such riffraff, the testimony of these common folk and diligent public servants gives ample evidence of Bush's innovative method of liberating innocent Iraqis from tyranny:

He burns them to death with chemical weapons.

Dr. ash-Shaykhli was sent by the pro-American Baghdad government to assess health conditions in Fallujah, a city of 300,000 that was razed to the ground by a U.S. assault on a few hundred insurgents, most of whom slipped away long before the attack. The ruin of the city was complete: Every single house was either destroyed (from 75 to 80 percent of the total) or heavily damaged. The city's entire infrastructure -- water, electricity, food, transport, medicine -- was obliterated. Indeed, the city's hospitals were among the first targets, in order to prevent medical workers from spreading "propaganda" about civilian casualties, U.S. officials said at the time.

Eyewitness accounts from the few survivors of the onslaught, which killed an estimated 1,200 noncombatants, have consistently reported the use of "burning chemicals" by American forces: horrible concoctions that roasted people alive with an unquenchable jellied fire, InterPress reported. They also tell of whole quadrants of the city in which nothing was left alive, not even dogs or goats -- quadrants that were sealed off by the victorious Americans for mysterious scouring operations after the battle. Others told of widespread use of cluster bombs in civilian areas -- a flagrant violation of the Geneva Conventions, but a standard practice throughout the war. The few fragments of this information that made it through the ever-vigilant filter were instantly dismissed as anti-American propaganda, although they often came from civilians who had opposed the heavy-handed insurgent presence in the town. Rejected as well were the innumerable horror stories of those who had seen their whole families -- including women, children, the sick and the elderly -- slaughtered in the "liberal rules of engagement" established by Bush's top brass. Most of the city was declared "weapons-free": military jargon meaning that soldiers could shoot "whatever they see -- it's all considered hostile," The New York Times reported, in a story buried deep inside the paper.

Yet the ash-Shaykhli team -- again, appointed by the Bush-backed government -- confirmed the use of "mustard gas, nerve gas and other burning chemicals" by U.S. forces during the battle. Dr. ash-Shaykhli said that survivors -- still living in refugee camps, along with some 200,000 former Fallujah residents who fled before the assault -- are now showing the medical effects of attack by chemical agents and the use of depleted uranium shells. (American officials have admitted raining more than 250,000 pounds of toxin-tipped DU ammunition on Iraqis since the war began.) The Pentagon has acknowledged using white phosphorus in Fallujah, but only for "illumination purposes." It denied using napalm in the attack -- but, in the course of that denial, it admitted that its earlier denials of using napalm elsewhere in Iraq were in fact false. And individual Marines filing "After Action Reports" on the Internet for military enthusiasts back home have detailed the routine use of white phosphorus shells, propane bombs and "jellied gasoline" (also known as napalm) during direct tactical assaults in Fallujah.
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lenidog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-19-05 09:05 PM
Response to Original message
1. Not that I doubt that the Bush Regime
would stoop to the use of such weapons but the story seems very fishy especially if anyone knows anything about chemical weapons and military tactics. Also what the hell is a propane bomb?
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chaz4jazz Donating Member (304 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-19-05 09:10 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. Propane Bomb = Daisy Cutter
February 27, 2003: The U.S. Air Force is developing a new, 2nd generation, ten ton large, low air burst bomb. It will replace the older "Daisy Cutter" 7.5 ton bomb developed during the 1960s. This was a 7.5 ton bomb using a semi-liquid explosive for clearing landing zones in the Vietnam jungle. The terms "Daisy Cutter" actually comes from the four foot probe at the bottom of the bomb which triggered the explosion without creating a crater (helicopters don't like to land in craters.) The probe was later replaced with a radar altimeter fuze, but the nickname "Daisy Cutter" stuck. The official designation was BLU-82 (or "Big Blue"). Until the BLU-82 came along, the biggest non-nuclear explosion obtainable was with a FAE (Fuel Air Explosives). FAE works by dropping a bomb that is actually a large aerosol dispenser. When the FAE "explodes" it first dispenses a large cloud of flammable material (anything like gasoline or propane will work).
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KT2000 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-19-05 09:17 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. thanks for this info
always wondered what the Daisy Cutter was. How awful
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lenidog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-19-05 09:51 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. That what threw me off
because as I understood it FAEs where aerosoled (sp?) gasoline again another weapon that I doubt would have been used in this battle.
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dzika Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-19-05 09:05 PM
Response to Original message
2. just sickening...
Yet the ash-Shaykhli team -- again, appointed by the Bush-backed government -- confirmed the use of "mustard gas, nerve gas and other burning chemicals" by U.S. forces during the battle. Dr. ash-Shaykhli said that survivors -- still living in refugee camps, along with some 200,000 former Fallujah residents who fled before the assault -- are now showing the medical effects of attack by chemical agents and the use of depleted uranium shells.
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HawkerHurricane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-19-05 09:30 PM
Response to Original message
5. While I don't doubt that BushCo would do such things...
I would like more information about...

<confirmed the use of "mustard gas, nerve gas >


You see, if U.S. Troops used mustard and nerve gasses, that would be in direct violation... the U.S. always claimed that white phosphorus, napalm, depleted uranium rounds and 'daisy cutters' (fuel/air explosive) are NOT 'chemical weapons' or 'WMD', mustard and nerve gasses ARE by every definition there is, including the U.S. Bush Government.
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lenidog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-19-05 10:01 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. Also add in the fact
Edited on Sat Mar-19-05 10:45 PM by lenidog
that you are fighting small units of insurgents in a city not mass groups of infantry in the open field which chemical weapons were designed to be used against. Also how were they dispensed since all the chemical weapons delivery systems are artillery shells, bombs or aircraft just spraying them out of tanks not exactly a surgical weapon especially in a city fight. Then to top it off you have to provide your troops with NBC clothing which degrades their efectiveness normally and doubly so in a desert climate. I could see the troops possibly using tear gas or CS, a violation of the laws of war but one weapon that would be far more managable than mustard or nerve gas and non-lethal to our troops. The war is utterly totally wrong and should be stopped but after reading this story I come to the belief that its an out an out lie. That the author sat down and thought of the worst weapons (illegal ones too) and came up with a story of how we used them to gain public support against the war. Which could backfire if anyone sat down and showed it to be a lie. Knowing they MSM the would get that story out and cast a shadow over real reports and damge the credibility of those trying to stop the war.
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HawkerHurricane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-19-05 10:30 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. You said...
what I was thinking.

But I didn't want to be that confrontational.

I'm a wuss tonight.
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lenidog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-19-05 10:51 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. That is not me being confrontational
I simply hate lies and I don't care who dispenses them. If I believe someone is feeding me or others a load of BS I will call them on it. I could see the use of Willie Pete shells, hate to say it but they are damn effective for clearing out a building in one shot. Though under the Geneva Convention they are illegal to use against people. I could even see DPU being used though this is really doubtful. DPU rounds are used against armor and incredibly expensive and since the insurgents had no armor they wouldn't be used because they are basically useless against infantry because they have no explosive charge.
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HawkerHurricane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-19-05 11:04 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. Please, do not take offense.
I was commenting more on how wishy washy I was being than anything else.

We never signed onto the Geneva Conventions. We probably never will.

DPU rounds are pretty useless against infantry (armor or no), as they are intended to penetrate tank armor... however, some aircraft weaponry (the GAU-11 of the famed A-10 Thunderbolt) only carry one type of ammunition. Also, when you start running low on ammo, you'll fire what you have, even if it's only marginal in effectiveness. While a 120mm HE round is prefered against PBI, a DPU round can be used against men in 'hard' cover (like buildings)... you blow through the brick wall and send lethal fragments of brick and DPU into the next room.

But, as I said... the real question is the use of 'lethal chemical agents' like mustard gas (easily defended against, not terribly lethal but extremely painful and causes lifelong handicaps) and nerve agents (very lethal, often for years afterwords).
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lenidog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-19-05 11:17 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. No I don't take offense
If I had really been confrontational my remarks on the article would have been a little more fearsome or biting. Actually we have signed and ratified the Geneva Convention just not some of the addendums over the years. Like I said its possible that they used DPU and I don't discount it. Its just doubtful. You are correct the real problem is whether they used Chem weapons. I just can't see it being done because of all the problems involved in using them is such a way not to mention the politcal fallout.
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madeline_con Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-20-05 02:55 AM
Response to Reply #11
17. What political fallout?
Everyone here is sitting around talking about this like it's something new, while people all over the world have known about it for months.

Yes, there's evidence of mustard gas, napalm, cluster bombs, shooting anything that moved. All of it.

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LynnTheDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-20-05 02:29 AM
Response to Reply #10
13. "We never signed onto the Geneva Conventions."??? HUH???
Yes, actually, we did. In 1882, signed by U.S. President Chester Arthur and ratified by Congress shortly afterwards. The USA was the 32nd nation to sign.

The US has signed ALL Geneva Conventions, and ratified ALL of them, with the exception of the two protocols of 1977.
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madeline_con Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-20-05 02:52 AM
Response to Reply #7
16. FYI
>>>>> you are fighting small units of insurgents <<<<

Before the battle (if you can call it that) started, the people of Fallujah appealed to the U.N. for help, saying there were no insurgents. They mentioned Zarqawi specifically and sadi 'if he even exists', he is not here among us.

It's suggested in some circles that the whole thing was a brutal act of revenge for the death and mutilation of the contractors on the Fallujah bridge.
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chaz4jazz Donating Member (304 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-20-05 02:16 AM
Response to Reply #5
12. I'm only posting the report
I have no idea if this is all true or not. Maybe it's all bullshit. In any case, we owe it to ourselves to be informed about all reports. Certainly the American press has fallen down on the job and because of that- they, the US Government, are responsible for us not trusting what we read, or can't read.

Who knows, the Russians may have gotten this one right.

Yes, it would be nice to get more seconding of this material from other sources.

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madeline_con Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-20-05 02:46 AM
Response to Reply #5
15. Aljazeera
has info and pics from Fallujah. Be warned, they're graphic and a lot of the wounded and dead are kids.
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madeline_con Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-20-05 02:40 AM
Response to Original message
14. This is not new.
Venezuelan Prez Chavez is telling us that he has prroof of the atrocities in Fallujah, and is now a 'dangerous guy' according to Washington sources and Fox News.

Italian journalist Sgrena claimed it was her knowledge that caused the alleged U.S. attack on her car near the Baghdad airport.

You can go here if you'd like some pics of Fallujah.

http://itsacrime.proboards42.com/index.cgi

There are allegations of mustard gas being used as well as napalm. Survivors tell of an apple like odor when they were being gassed.

The remains of some of the houses were trucked out, and the surrouinding soil was also removed. In other places, this wasn't done. It suggests that there was something the US forces were trying to hide.

Water trucks were said to have been brought in and the streets hosed down, another indication of mustard gas cleanup.

When we liken the Iraq war to Viet Nam, this is our Mai Lai massacre, only on a much larger scale.
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madeline_con Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-20-05 04:13 PM
Response to Original message
18. Fallujah, the shame of our nation...

A man was trying yo get his old mother to safety in Fallujah as US troops moved in.


<>





This is heartbreaking. This child is kept in prison with his father so interrogators can be more 'persuasive'!!!!


<>
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madeline_con Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-20-05 04:14 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. sorry
about th illegal code, guys
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madeline_con Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-20-05 04:38 PM
Response to Original message
20. Here's the man and his mom...
Welcome to Fallujah...


<>
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