Who endures more "bashing"/ostracism in our society?

[UdoKier]

Poll question: Who endures more "bashing"/ostracism in our society?

Who endures more "bashing"/ostracism in our society?

[ck4829]

1. A DU'er once said that in some states...

Atheists aren't allowed to run for public office. That's pretty serious.

[MindPilot]

8. Yep, seven states...no atheists written right into their constitutions

Arkansas
"No person who denies the being of a God shall hold any office in the civil departments of this State, nor be competent to testify as a witness in any court."
Article 19, sect. 1 of the 1874 constitution
Maryland
"That as it is the duty of every man to worship God in such manner as he thinks most acceptable to Him, all persons are equally entitled to protection in their religious liberty... nor shall any person, otherwise competent, be deemed incompetent as a witness, or juror, on account of his religious belief; provided, he believes in the existence of God, and that under His dispensation such person will be held morally accountable for his acts, and be rewarded or punished therefore either in this world or in the world to come." Bill of Rights: Article 36

Massachusetts
"As the happiness of a people, and the good order and preservation of civil government, essentially depend upon piety, religion and morality; and as these cannot be generally diffused through a community, but by the institution of the public worship of God, and of public instructions in piety, religion and morality: herefore, to promote their happiness and to secure the good order and preservation of their government, the people of this commonwealth have a right to invest their legislature with power to authorize and require, and the legislature shall, from time to time, authorize and require, the several towns, parishes, precincts, and other bodies politic, or religious societies, to make suitable provision, at their own expense, for the institution of the public worship of God, and for the support and maintenance of public Protestant teachers of piety, religion and morality, in all cases where such provision shall not be made voluntarily." Declaration of Rights: Article III

North Carolina
"The following persons shall be disqualified for office: First, any person who shall deny the being of Almighty God...." Constitution Article 6 Section 8

Pennsylvania
"No person who acknowledges the being of God and a future state of rewards and punishments shall, on account of his relifious sentiments, be disqualified to hold any office or place of trust or profit under this Commonwealth".
Declaration of Rights Article 1 Section 4

South Carolina
"No person shall be eligible to the office of Governor who denies the existence of the Supreme Being..."
Article 4 Section 2

Tennessee
"No person who denies the being of God, or a future state of rewards and punishments, shall hold any office in the civil department of this state." Bill of Rights: Article 9 Section 4

Texas
"No religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office, or public trust, in this State; nor shall any one be excluded from holding office on account of his religious sentiments, provided he acknowledge the existence of a Supreme Being." Article 1 - Bill of Rights: Section 4

[bloom]

32. Holy Crap!

:grr:

[Spider Jerusalem]

49. All of those are invalidated by the US Constitution.

Article 6, Section III:

“The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the members of the several State legislatures, and all executive and judicial officers, both of the United States and of the several States, shall be bound by oath or affirmation, to support this Constitution; but no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States.”

[tubbacheez]

2. Depends where you go and which communities you observe.

Society is a big place, and the bashings are not uniformly distributed within it.

[UdoKier]

4. The number of places in this country where atheists aren't ostracized...

Are few and far between. A few tiny islands in a sea of rabid conformity "You WILL profess a belief in God, no matter what you really believe!" ( IE, we are expected to LIE, like most pandering "Christian" politicians do - they're atheists deep down too.)

[tubbacheez]

14. And fancy us bumping into each other here, at a place called Democratic

UNDERGROUND!





There are several minority groups unable to fully come out of their respective closets.

Keep fighting the good fight though. We'll win eventually.

[Sandpiper]

3. I've yet to hear a President say

That Christians shouldn't be considered citizens or patriots.

[MindPilot]

10. of course he wasn't president when he said it

he was still campaigning. For those who don't know, that was Poppy Bush.

[Pushed To The Left]

39. Excellent point!

I had forgotten about that! It's okay for the right wing to say those types of things about minority groups. However, if somebody DARES disagree politically with right-wing politics, they are labeled as "anti-Christian". The right wing has control of all branches of government and the Courts, yet they act like they are victims of oppression if anybody happens to disagree with them on any issue.

[Demit]

5. One group gets told they're going to burn in the everlasting fires of Hell

and the other doesn't.

[GiovanniC]

28. Actually, One Group

Says that the other is going to burn for eternity in a lake of fire, and the other group says "Only according to your bullshit fairy tale".

So obviously, the second group is persecuting the first.

[amazona]

6. it isn't even close

I won't live long enough to see an openly atheistic president elected, even though our founding fathers were atheists and Deists who were horrified by Christian superstition. We have been completely assimilated by the borg. :-(

The conservation movement is a breeding ground of communists
and other subversives. We intend to clean them out,
even if it means rounding up every birdwatcher in the country.
--John Mitchell, US Attorney General 1969-72

[Bill McBlueState]

7. this again?

I like what the responses say so far, but do we really need another 300-post religion-themed flamefest?

I guess if people want to talk about this, they should, but I think it's getting old.

[Postmanx]

9. It's pretty clear

which group endures more abuse on DU.

[Touchdown]

13. Yeah, gays!

Rove is gay, Ashcroft is gay, Gannon and Scotty, Bush is gay. Gannon has a "daddy" in the WH, etc.:eyes:

[Warpy]

11. Just yesterday there was a thread here where the poster

implied unbelievers were somehow defective for not having faith. That's the kind of garbage we put up with in our daily lives, along with idiotic statements about how athiests can't possibly be ethical or compassionate because they've never known Jesus.

It's hard wired, folks. You're not going to convert us, and we're not going to convert you. We're just different. Some of us know scripture better than you do because we wanted to make sure we hadn't missed anything. So back off. Stop making assumptions. Treat us the way Jesus told you to, with tolerance and respect, and we'll pay you back in kind.

[ProgressiveConn]

12. I'd like to extend a big

fuck you to anyone who voted that Christians are bashed more than atheists. I'm neither but the reality of it is that Christians dominate the country in every aspect and "Christian persecution" in America is hogwash designed to further a theocracy. If you don't let a large portion of the Christian community do exactly as they want and let them impose their beliefs on everyone than you are somehow persecuting them. Screw that anyone who voted for Christians above is obviously out of touch with reality.

[mopaul]

15. ME!

and ahm tarred uvvit

[Deep13]

16. "With God, all things are possible."

State motto of Ohio.

When people say it, which is not very often, I respond with, "Yeah? Try dribbling a football."

[jonnyblitz]

17. christians? PLEASE. they are the majority who do the bashing

of everybody else. that is a hoot people would think THEY are the ones being ostracized. Reminds me of the republicans saying straight white men are the ones who are oppressed. unbelievable. :eyes:

[Walt Starr]

30. Some "Christians" feel that the existance of non-christians is proof of

persecution.

:eyes:

[mattclearing]

18. Self-delete

Sorry, I misread it to read, "Who DESERVES more bashing/ostracism?"

My bad.

[Az]

19. A small list of personal experiences

I keep bumperstickers on my car. Magnetic backing so I can change what stickers or emblems I have on. Nothing to outragious. Just positive expressions concering my atheism and support of evolution. Its primarily there to let other atheists know they are not alone. But I also get other reactions. Here are some of them.

Countless tracts and notes informing me I am going to hell.

WWJD bracelet wrapped around my wipers.

3 key jobs.

3 complete set of stickers stolen (which is odd considering the thou shall not steal thing).

1 set of stickers removed from the bumper and placed on the side of my car.

Countless middle fingers extended in my direction.

Followed into parking lots and evangelized on 2 occaisions (both did not turn out how they thought it would).

10 bibles dumped on the trunk of my car on one occaision (NT only, sect is apparently trying to distance itself from the OT).

A friend with just a Darwin fish on his truck was forced off the road by someone screaming epithets concerning his ultimate destination.

In highschool after an open discussion concerning the origin of life where I was nearly the only one defending evolution I found a note stuck in my Chem book claiming I should "Believe in god or else".

I have been exorcised in public by a street preacher and online by a group of fundamentalists.

At the DC Godless march there was an entire phalanx of believers along our path extolling us with the horrors of hell that awaited us.



So when I say there are those in our society that attempt to oppress people based on their lack of belief it is not something I am merely making up. This is just a list of my experiences. I am just one atheist. We have no openly atheist elected officials. No one speaks in our name in this society. When we do speak up we are a bunch of whiners. Frankly some of us are a bit sick of it. So we make noise. We demand to be heard. And people continue to tell us to shut up, sit down, and stop complaining. You can well imagine what we feel about such suggestions.

[LdyGuique]

23. You had me shaking my head . . .

I was living in Pennsylvania up until a year ago. One of my daughters was living in NC -- her hubby was active duty Marines. When I got my truck a few years ago, I decided that it needed "hexes" in both the traditional sense of Pennsylvania Dutch, but with a twist, to protect my truck, especially when rolling down into the South for visits.

So, I found some neato Chinese dragons, Ying-yangs, that sort of thing and put them on my truck as protection (mostly a jest, but hey -- who knows?). Anyway, I never received a single comment on them in either PA which can be freaky, nor anywhere along the way to, in, from NC. I didn't even receive a single comment on my long trek across country and up the Alcan when I moved to Alaska last June.

So, one can conclude one of several choices:

1) People are friggin' blind;
2) People are friggin' ignorant and have no clue what the dragons/ying-yang symbology is all about; or
3) People are more tolerant than previously believed.

[Az]

24. Ignorance

There isn't as much threat to their belief systems from eastern philosophies. They are not particularly confronational to Christian thinking and their lack of familiarity with them means they just think they are pretty designs.

The atheist vs Christian issue is much more threatening to the fundamentalists. Atheists are in their imagination the source of much of the "corruption" in society. We support the science that tears at their foundations. We support progressive social policies including acceptance of homosexuals. The very fact that we question their doctrine is threatening to them.

[libhill]

40. But -

this is the Land of the Free, and the Home of the Brave, with freedom of expression, and separation of Church and State, right? What a load of fucking propaganda. These right wing religious freak assholes are making me ashamed of my country, and that pisses me off to no end.

[Mojorabbit]

20. You forgot

wiccans, witches, neodruids, and other pagans. They have got both christian and agnostics beat by a good mile as far as ostracism goes.

[Deep13]

22. I don't know.

These non-monotheists can basically say to Christians and Jews, I don't believe what you believe, but I believe something and accept the role of divinity on our personal lives. An atheist by being one is essentially proclaiming, your are all fundamentally wrong because there is no divinity.

[TNDemo]

21. No category for southerners?

:)

[libhill]

41. LOL

Maybe there should be - thanks to these right wing religious freak weirdos, a lot of people are beginning to get the idea that all Southerners are a bunch of uneducated hillbillies, sittin' around on the porch swillin' beer, and cleanin' the gun, while Daisey Mae goes to her church meetin' in skimpy shorts and barefoot (and ah packin' the fourteen young 'uns with her). Please - we're not all morans down here. And for the record, Bush is no Texan. He's actually a Yankee from Kenebuckport, wherever the hell that is. Maine?

[TNDemo]

54. 'Scuse me while I go slap Jethro upside the head.

He keeps letting up on the bicycle and how am I supposed to have power for this here computer with him slacking off?? I'll check the varmint trap while I'm out there. It's getting hungry in here.

[libhill]

55. While yer at it

Tell him ta lay off the moonshine, an' save some fer me. I tain't had none in a- while. An', ifn you all's havin' possum tnite, I might fall on by thar in my pick em up truck. Ain't got no moe time ta read them posts on that thar commie demycrat website.

[Lone Pawn]

25. Atheists in general, but Christians on DU.

I sense this poll is an excuse to Christian-bash here.

[republicansareevil]

26. exactly n/t

[skygazer]

27. Well, quite honestly

In some ways and at some times, DU is starting to sound like the Religious Right.

I respect people's spiritual beliefs. I believe that for most religious people, their faith is a major part of what makes them who they are and I respect that. However, in life and also to a great extent here at DU, I've seen very little respect for people's beliefs when those beliefs are that there is no god.

There have been several threads that have stated variations on the theme of "it offends me when you speak ill of christianity". This is a message board with 60,000 members and I'm sorry, but some of us feel that a great many of the world's ills have stemmed from organized religion in general and christianity in particular. And there's no reason we should not be able to express that view here.

Why should every other subject be open to debate and discussion but saying anything negative about christianity not be? Don't like it? Well, I'm offended by many things I read here but I recognize people's rights to their opinions and that is all this is about. Opinions. The subject of religious belief should not be off limits nor should the stating of negative opinions in regards to them. Certainly, personal attacks and flaming should be dealt with in the same manner it is with other subjects but I get so sick of hearing about how persecuted christians are here at DU.

Don't like those statements? Ignore them. Don't read those threads. Grow a thick skin which is what those of us who happen to be among the minority in this country have had to do. I am bombarded with christian claptrap every bloody day - I bet you don't have to deal with atheist music on the radio or blaring at the mall. I bet you don't have to put up with all the decorations for the atheist holidays that your tax dollars help to pay for.

Persecuted. Give me a break.

[sniffa]

31. does this crucifix make me Look fat?

great post.

[Name removed]

33. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

35. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Lone Pawn]

36. Um...yes, you did assume I was Christian.

You told me to grow a thicker skin just like atheists had to. But hey.

And ignore? Oh no! I thought we were for freedom to insult religion! Did I insult your freedom to insult too harshly? :nopity:

[TygrBright]

38. Actually, Buddhism...

...has a VERY bloody history, especially in its earliest days. Various Buddhist sects tried their damndest to exterminate each other in the 3rd century CE.

Even as recently as the 16th Century in Japan, various groups of Buddhists embarked upon pogroms to wipe one another out based on their "heretical" interpretations of various Buddhist tenets.

The magnitude of good done by humanity in the name of the Divine is equalled only by the magnitude of evil done by humanity in the name of the Divine.

What part of "Thou shalt not kill" is it that's so damn' hard to understand?

amazedly,
Bright

[libhill]

46. Religion

not money, is the root of all evil. Most of it, anyway.

[Dave Reynolds]

44. Thank you for that.

I have been starting posts and then not posting them because I have not been able to put those thoughts into comprehensible language.

You very nicely summed up my thoughts on the matter.

[bloom]

34. I don't think the goal is to show the Christians

how much the atheists are "bashed" just so the score can be evened.

I think it's an educational thing.

I think Christians (having grown up one, myself) don't have a clue how easy they have it in general - in society - as the majority group.

[Lone Pawn]

37. I understand that as a point.

Unfortunately, whenever I see this argument, it's usually followed with "So get used to us bashing Christianity, because we get bashed by other Christians." I don't think either is acceptable.

[Siyahamba]

29. 3rd option: Liberal Christians

Get it from both sides.

[Blue_In_AK]

42. It sure looks that way. n/t

[Dave Reynolds]

43. I am considered an athiest.

If anyone tries to witness to me I am now at the point where I have to just curtly state that I do not discuss things of that nature. In the past I would just state that I did not believe. I quickly learned that did not help me, as they redoubled their efforts to talk to me.

[libhill]

45. Don't even try

to point out contradictions the Bible to them, they won't believe you. I once pointed out to a Fundy who was trying to convert me, that he should explain some of Jesus' harsher comments to me, such as the remark that, "I come to bring not peace, but a sword". And the remark he made to his followers, telling them to sell their cloaks to buy a sword, and several other inconsistent remarks of that nature. The guy went ballistic and told me I was making all that up. If they want to preach, they should at least have some familiarity with the text they're preaching from.

[Dave Reynolds]

48. Yeah, I tried that a couple of times recently.

I was accused of never having read the bible. I in fact did read it, along with a chunk of the Koran and the Torah. I liked the idea of reading the "literature" so I could dazzle folks with my knowledge. I was an idiot to think that.

I think from now on I'll just pick my nose while they speak to me.

[libhill]

50. lol

That might be your best bet - let 'em think you're one of them, shout "praise Jaysus", start speaking in toungues, and send them on their merry way.

[Dave Reynolds]

52. Yes,

I think it may be a plan.

[zanne]

47. My fundie sister once complained that it's so hard...

being a Christian. I said "You should try being an atheist". That shut her up.

[adwon]

51. Rat's asses

They just don't get any respect.

[bpilgrim]

53. not the tall white guys, many of whom are 'CHRISTIANS'

that's fer sure, but don't tell them that cause they're likely to LYNCH ya a$$ or get/pay a possie to do it for'm :evilgrin:

peace

[morgan2]

56. I think Christians get more vocal bashing

because of actions of some of their members. There is more of a general disdain/dislike of atheists. Atheists are under more pressure to hide their beliefs, but by sheer number of comments Christians take the cake.

[libhill]

57. Atheists

Get a lot of bad press because of the more vocal Madeleine Murry O'Hare types, who are sort of a non-believing version of the loudmouthed evangelistic Fundies in Christendom. I know that Ms. O'Hare has "passed on", but there are still a lot of her ilk out there. I think that the majority of us, believers and non believers alike, just want to make it through our frickin' day, and don't really give a rats ass about making ourselves annoying, or forcing our views on others.

[Technowitch]

58. Name ONE self-identified atheist in Congress or other high elected office

Just ONE.

There aren't any. And that's not right.