Reducing your standard of living......

[serryjw]

We were talking on another thread about the future when the dollar collapses.
I was thing how far is Americans going to have to adapt to a new more conservative (sorry) way of living........


Exercise one..How many square feet are you living in( Take total home divided by number of people

Exercise 2...How many cars in the family......3 cars for 4 people? .75 per person.......

Me, I live in 550 sq ft (only person) and have no car.....your turn

[Cleita]

1. I guess I'm going to have to take in a family of elves.

That's all I can fit in here if I downsize, about 350 sq. ft. (Very small mobile).

[serryjw]

4. You and me both

but I bet there are many people that way over 1000 sq feet allocated to them....that's 1000 sq feet that needs to be heated and cooled.

[Cleita]

6. Heat and air conditioning? LOL What's that?

My heater went off after Christmas when I got my last propane bill. Fortunately I live in California so the coldest it gets here is 30 degrees F. My air conditioning is a ceiling fan.

[Lady Effingbroke]

50. Myself, also!

Welcome, elves!

I live in a 30'x8' travel trailer.

Own a 4-cyl. truck, although I am riding my bicycle everywhere I can.

[Cleita]

51. I used to live in a 27' X 8' trailer. I don't think

the elves would fit in yours. I think the only way people like you and I can downsize is to pitch a tent somewhere. I have to drive being there's no public transportation to where I live. Thinking about the bike though. I'm wondering if an old lady with osteosporosis should risk possible broken bones.

[Liberty Belle]

2. 2,800 square feet, 4 people(700 each); 3 cars for 4 drivers

, but one car has a failing transmission and the other is so old it's in its final lifestage. One teen leaves for college and the other will need wheels when he goes, so we're trying to figure out how to afford 3 replacement cars short of taking up bank robbery as a hobby.

Don't suggest public transportation, as there is none where we live.

I should add that about 400 square feet of our home is devoted to home office space, leaving 2400 (600 per person) for our family of four, one large dog and two cats.

We keep our bills down by shopping for clothes, etc at second-hand stores, dollar and $5 stores, or yard sales. As a writer, I do trade-out work for services on occasion, such as dental care.

We also grow much of our own fresh produce, with a 600-square-foot vegetable garden plus 14 fruit trees.

[LynzM]

3. Hrm....

Don't know the exact size of the place we're living right now but I'd guesstimate my square feet to be about 250 of that (4 people, one condo). We have, at the moment, 3 cars for 3 adults and one kid... so is that .75 or 1.0? Either way, I want to get a bike so that I can do my local shopping that way. Unfortunately have to have the car for work at the moment, but if things get bad, quitting my job and staying home with our daughter and learning to cook from scratch starts to sound like an ok plan to me.

[Boomer]

8. Probably cheaper, too

>> quitting my job and staying home with our daughter and learning to cook from scratch starts to sound like an ok plan to me. <<

I've seen calculations by expert penny-pinchers that show just how expensive a second job can be for a family with children. Sometimes it ends up costing more in support services (day care, transportation, dry cleaning bills, fast-food) than it contributes in income. If you love your job that may be an acceptable trade-off, but some families are operating under the illusion that a second job is necessary to pay the bills.

One stay-at-home parent who concentrates on frugal approaches to family economics -- home cooking, checking out yard sales, buying used rather than new, etc -- can create a family lifestyle that works for a single-income.

Something to keep in mind when jobs become scarce(er).

[LynzM]

26. That's a good point...

And probably possible for us in about a year. Right now we do end up with more income having both of us working, but as gas gets more expensive and we both have long commutes, more of that income will go toward gas, obviously.

We already do many of the things you talk about as 'frugal approaches', but we could obviously cut back more. We mostly eat at home, pack our own lunches, neither of us works a job requiring dry-cleaning clothes, and we shop Goodwill and yard sales, and participate in Freecycle. However, we do also buy non-necessities, and that could obviously change.

I would also enjoy having some more time to spend with our daughter than I have right now. We'll see, I guess!

[amazona]

38. the frugal parent becomes a dependent with no future

These "studies" that claim that women's work (it is always the wife who ends up staying home) is of no financial value conveniently overlook what being out of work for years does to a woman's career prospects. It can erode the value of her college degree -- even make it worth nothing if she's out of the market long enough. So she becomes dependent on her spouse...and she's screwed when she's forty and he trades her in for two twenties.

No woman who hopes to live to be middle-aged should be complacent about living off a man. Something happens to a large minority of men at that age. Some just die -- that's when the heart disease starts to hit and that's bad enough. Others get that middle-aged craziness thing.

Even if working costs the family money -- and I don't seriously see how it does -- then the value of keeping your experience current is too great to pass up if you can possibly maintain it.

The conservation movement is a breeding ground of communists
and other subversives. We intend to clean them out,
even if it means rounding up every birdwatcher in the country.
--John Mitchell, US Attorney General 1969-72

[Boomer]

5. Exercise 3

Exercise 3: How much debt are you carrying?

I just paid off my mortgage and all credit card debts, specifically to prepare for the coming dollar collapse.

You can still lose even a 550 sq. foot house if you're up to your eyeballs in debt. (Which I suspect you're not...)

One of the most important ways to reduce a standard of living is to take the equity from a large house and buy as much, if not all, of a much smaller house as you can.

[LeftyMom]

7. approz2-300 sqft/person (3 people) one car, no credit card debt, mortage

or car note. We do have some medical bills we have no hope of paying, which may have been written off as we haven't heard from the hospital about them in ages.

[seabeyond]

9. 5500 for people, 3 cars 2 drivers

1375 per person. and two of those persons are little.

its my moms house, she wanted me to live her before she died. i dont apologize. where all the family gathers.

the extra car is over two decades and sits in driveway for emergencies. paid a dollar for it

owe nothing on credit card or any other debt, but the house.

and we have a pretty good savings. i dont spend money on squat, we dont wear latest fashion, clothes not important to us, have few needs wants and hardly any desires. things just arent a thing for me

also have a back yard i can fit a horse or two in in case we no longer have oil, and hubby does a pretty good garden every year

i also figure i can stick a family or two in the lower part of the house, if the need arises.

[Clark2008]

10. 1200 square feet (living space)

for two people (600 per).
One car, one driver.
Two dogs.
Acre of land (I have plenty of room to grow stuff! One pear tree, one apple and grape vines). :)

[BamaGirl]

11. We're cramped, but it beats the alternative (high mortgage pymt)

5 ppl in 1300sqft, 260/person. We have 2 cars, both paid for and one rarely driven.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

12. Just a quick comment....when the dollar collapses, so will real estate....

....values. It won't matter how frugally anyone is living at that point, will it?

[vogonjiltz]

14. If you own a home

and the value collapses, at least you still have a place to live. I often thing that people shouldn't look a home buying as an investment as much as it is a place to live. Heck, this apartment dweller is looking forward to a collapse in real estate prices. Rent will go down, I might be able to afford a house then.

[Clark2008]

19. My house payment is less than most apartments of less size anyway

I have two bedrooms, a dining room and a den (which could be used as third bedroom, if the need ever arose) and an acre of land - however, my mortgage is still less than most two-bedroom apartments in my area and they don't have the yard and I couldn't keep my dogs. I have a child, so I'd have to have two bedrooms, eventually, considering he's of opposite sex.
Granted, I'm on a 30 year fixed mortgage because I had to go up from a 15-year mortgage to a 30-year after a divorce and a hard time finding work left me with a meager income. Now, of course, after four years, I'm laid off and, again, having a hard time finding work.
However, this time around, I have unemployment insurance for a bit and some savings.

[pdurod1]

20. If home owners suddenly become renters...

won't rent tend to go up? I thinking these new renters will saturate the market and will ultimately be at the mercy of Apartment owners.

[SoCalDem]

39. Home owners, in a pinch will do what they have always done

become landlords to renters in their home.. I have seriously considered this for my Friend who is on the edge due to her listening to a CRAZY boyfriend. she cares for her disabled brother, and my husband and I have talked about the possibility of eventually having them move in with us. She declared BK a few years ago, and has been less than successful in looking for a place to rent. Right now they are still in her house, but the balloon payment is looming, and there's NO WAY she will get affordable financing on a house that has no equity left in it.:(..

Her brother gets a disability check for $960 and she makes about 1800 a month. They are paying 1400 a month now. (interest only), so if push comes to shove, we could save them money, and they would be helping us out if they even paid $800 to live here.. We would be saving $400 a month (our house payment is 1187),she would be saving $600, and they would not have to worry about living in a crappy apartment.

She does not love my cats, but she loves ME :) and I would do anything to help her and her brother :)

[The Whiskey Priest]

21. The bursting of the real estate bubble

will wipe out hundreds of thousands of families. Those with variable mortgage rates will be the first to go, then those who will loose their jobs as the whole economy sinks like a stone...a glut of houses occurs and with it a downward spiral in valuation of housing...as each sector takes a hit, those at the margin go under...it could well precipitate a total collapse of the economy.

[leftofthedial]

13. 1600 square feet for 4 people

3 cars

[pdurod1]

15. Downward spiral...

1400 sq ft finished, 900 unfinished in the basement, 80 year old house, cool neighborhood, just me. Can't make the mortgage payment and may need to go into a cheap apartment soon. So much for the ownership society.

2 cars, 71 nova and a 02 civic, 1 truck, 94 silverado.

The chevy's don't get driven anymore. can't afford to insure and license them. The truck is getting sold to pay the thousands I owe for taxes (401K distributions) good paying IT job went to India, and someones got to pay for the war. Turned off DishNet TV, back to free TV and rabbit ears. No more email/games/IM on the cell phone, just voice. No more home phone. Thermostat is set at 60 in the winter, AC doesn't get used unless I absolutely can't sleep. No more vacations. No more health insurance and dental. No more credit card purchases, cash only. What else can I get rid of?

You know? Fuck these fuckwad corporations. I'm not buying anymore of their products and shit.

[Clark2008]

22. Hell, honey, I've been living that way for years

Home phone is for dial-up, though.
Have a cell for calls, since I'm looking for work.
Basic cable (which is the next to go should the need arise).
Re-fi'ed mortgage.
One paid-for, 11-year-old car (needs brakes).
A sick dog that just cost me $350.
But, the one thing I do have is a kid. I get a lot back on taxes as a result - but I'm living off that since unemployment isn't much.

[pdurod1]

23. This downturn started two years ago for me

Yep, I re-fi'ed, no kids, 2 cats. They'll get put down if they get sick.

Another case:
In January, one of my childhood buddy's, wife and 5 kids just dumped a 4500 sq ft home, a $40K pickup, a business and moved into a rental property. The house is still unsold. I think the mortgage company now owns it.

[really-looney]

16. 1640 Squ feet 4 people, two cars and two drivers.

We just recently bought up from 775 sqy feet and the same four people, and the great thing is we went from 1 to 2.5 bathrooms. I feel like I am living large.

[NMDemDist2]

17. i live in about 550 SF and have half a car

and if the chit hits the fan, I have enough yard to feed my family (as long as the water holds out)

[JanMichael]

18. 700 s/f; I walk to work, she drives p/t 16 miles rt.

our imprint is low by US standards but not nearly low enough.

[conflictgirl]

24. Hmm

1875 sq ft house divided by 5 people= 375 sq ft per person.
2 cars, 5 people = .4 per person.

Somehow I'm not seeing what this has to do with an impending economy crash. Can you explain better what the results of these calculations mean?

[serryjw]

25. Actually we aren't a great example

How many thugs are living in 4000 sq ft and everyone has their own car.....they have a rude awakening

When I posted this exercise I was thinking about my youth living in a (Archie Bunker) row house in Queens NY. There were 4 of us and 1 1/2 bathrooms. I wondered how we all got showered and ready for school/work at the same time. I loved that house. People on the block 'traded up' to a big house but my father was too frugal.We had a one car garage. Mom's car was in a block of ice 6 months a year!

[Demonaut]

27. 1700 square feet, two cars, two bicycles, one person

[bikebloke]

28. 350 sq feet, one bicycle, no debt

Now I'm trying to suss out how to protect my savings with the dollar collapse.

And just in case, I've been thinking what I'd need should I become a latter day Okie. With a trailer for the bike, I could carry spare tires, extra food, survival supplies. Things that wouldn't fit in my panniers. As to where I'd go is for the next intellectual exercise. Though I'm sure there's a bike trail from Northern Virginia to New Zealand.

[Igel]

29. 1200 sq ft, 3 people (one's a toddler), 2 cars, no debt.

Although I think we're in the market for a house.

I think we need the two cars. One's for my wife's commute. I work/study at home, but want a car in case anything happens to the kid. Between the two of us, we drive at most 40 or 50 miles per week.

Downsizing would be annoying: as it is there are 8 full-sized bookcases, 2 half-height bookcases, and something like 15 boxes of books still packed from the last move. Maybe 10 are titles in the public library system.

[BamaGirl]

31. Sounds like us

We don't have quite so many books-5 ceiling height bookcases, 5 3 ft high bookcases. Our local library is big, but rarely has what we want. I am not giving up my books! I have dragged them from one end of the country to the other and back again. We're going to convert our garage to a library/den to get a little more breathing room.

[Horse with no Name]

30. I think we rate pretty good.

I have zero debt.
Everything I touch is what I own.
I have a 2800 sq foot house--5 people. So 560 sq ft/person.
1 car for 5 people--I sold my gas hog and haven't replaced it yet.
.20 per person.
We freecycle, shop Goodwill, yard sales and Salvation Army for clothes. I also buy and sell used clothes on Ebay.
Shop sales when buying new.
We have started eating very frugally. Lots of veggies. Lots of beans.
In the worst of situations, I have spent $35 on groceries for a week for 5 people.
However, my utility bills are outrageous.
I do plan on moving to Arizona next year to be closer to family and to benefit from public transportation--which we have none.
My Mom lives in Phoenix and all of her utilities are cheaper than my electric bill.

[lonestarnot]

32. Well if you're moving here for public transportation, better stay where

you are! Public tranny sucks here!

[Horse with no Name]

34. Phoenix is my hometown

Born and raised a desert rat,lol.
Only moved to Texas in my teens.
You may think that public tranny sucks, but compared to nothing, it can't be worse than that,lol.
Actually am moving to Peoria though.

[lonestarnot]

37. Well there is next to nut'n here so you may be a little better off...

[Horse with no Name]

41. I'll be better off

for that fact that my entire family lives there.
I have a home business so it doesn't really matter if I am here or in Alaska--I have the same clientele one way or the other.
I also have a nursing license in case I want to practice nursing again and Arizona is a compact state with Texas--so no need to even have to apply for licensure in Arizona immediately.
Our family has been there for generations and like I said--I was born there so there is a certain entitlement and comfort to being able to return home.
However, I will have 2 kids who will be a sophomore and a junior in college at the point when I return to Phoenix, so it will be beneficial for them to be able to live at home and I KNOW that there is public transportation to ASU West from where we will live since I already have that part taken care of, so they will be able to take the bus to college(I travel to Phoenix often enough to know this).
We live so far away from everything here, that they both will need cars to travel and will both have to live on campus here, but I do not want to live in the Dallas area again, so moving closer in is not an option.
It definitely is the most economically sound move for our needs and situation.:)

[lonestarnot]

45. Woohooo welcome to AZ fellow DUr and co.!

:party: :toast: :bounce:

[SW FL Dem]

33. 2200 sq ft 3 people

so that's approx 700 sq ft/person. We have 2 cars, both paid off. We have no debt other than our mortgage and our equity in the house is over 50% at this point. We also have savings equal to several months salary in the bank as well as decent retirement accounts.

[cmf]

35. ~900 sqft, 2 cars, 2 people

So we each have 450 ft2 of living space and one car. Cars are fully ours, and the mortgage is nearly paid off. We live in a very frugal manner, and we like it. Living simply has rewards of it's own.

[all.of.me]

36. 1800 sq ft, one acre, 3 people

3 cars, all paid for. one belongs to the kids' dad for when he visits. the other two are mine - one 89 pick up truck for gardening and wood, one 91 4runner for driving kids and hauling stuff to the flea market.

house is paid for.

no debt. i'm a cash girl.

grow a lot of our food.

living as simply as possible. it's all i've ever done for the last 35 years!

[amazona]

40. I don't understand the question

The dollar has already collapsed against the euro, and you are already living in 550 square feet and have no car. You have no "fat" in your personal situation to liquidate if you have a financial crisis. I guess I don't understand how you think you are helping yourself. You want to stockpile a lot of dollars that are at or near historically weak levels?

Compare that to a person with 2,000 square miles and 2 cars. There's a problem in that person's personal finance, and they can sell one of the cars and maybe get a roommate to help with the rent. So it looks like me that they're ahead of you.

What is your objective in not having any possessions? I just don't get it.

The people who have more now will have more in event of an economic collapse because they will have more options for barter, getting roommates, stuff to sell, etc. If you have nothing, after collapse, you'll still have nothing or even less.

The conservation movement is a breeding ground of communists
and other subversives. We intend to clean them out,
even if it means rounding up every birdwatcher in the country.
--John Mitchell, US Attorney General 1969-72

[Tracer]

42. 2,000 sq. ft. 2 people.

1,000 per.
Mortgage: PAID
2 cars: PAID
Credit Card debt: NONE
Purchases: Only what I need.

The downside? Super high property taxes, high utility bills.

Oh. And have no clue as to why we have 5 televisions for 2 people. (Not my purchase)

[Lydia Leftcoast]

43. 800 sq. ft. (part of which is home office)

One 1990 car, just saved $25 a month on phone bills by switching to Vonage, just saved $25 a month by cutting back on my cable service. Buying few clothes and at clearance sales only.

My struggles to get out of debt keep being stymied by things such as car emergencies and dental emergencies. :-(

[Bouncy Ball]

44. About 1800 square feet, three people.

That's 600 square feet per person.

Two vehicles, three people (the third person is too young to drive).

Now what are we doing with this information?

[ikojo]

46. I have no car and live in an efficiency apartment

I don't know how many square feet it is but it's tiny.

[ramblin_dave]

47. How many earths needed for your lifestyle?

Ecological footprint quiz:

http://www.earthday.net/footprint/index.asp

Answer questions and find out how many earths would be needed if everyone lived like you do.

[serryjw]

52. I've taken the test before

ATEGORY ACRES

FOOD 5.4

MOBILITY 0.2

SHELTER 3

GOODS/SERVICES 3

TOTAL FOOTPRINT 12



IN COMPARISON, THE AVERAGE ECOLOGICAL FOOTPRINT IN YOUR COUNTRY IS 24 ACRES PER PERSON.

WORLDWIDE, THERE EXIST 4.5 BIOLOGICALLY PRODUCTIVE ACRES PER PERSON.




IF EVERYONE LIVED LIKE YOU, WE WOULD NEED 2.6 PLANETS.

[Ilsa]

48. About 410 sq ft per person (4 people). 2 cars.

We need our AC here in hot and humid south texas. I usually can do with little heat in winter. I'm careful about running ac versus oven in summer. I shut off the heater in winter when I cook.

One primary income. Good savings. Very manageable mortgage with about ten years left. We could pay it off with retirement funds if we needed to. One car loan, almost paid off. I bring in enough money on the side to buy my stuff, and i always look for sales. I made my own drapes for our living room this year. My husband built new beds for the kids versus buying them, and he put up our fence himself. I cook most of the time.

I still consider us to be "poor" though. I grew up worrying about money, and I doubt that will ever change.

[LWolf]

49. I just sold my house and doubled

the square footage on the new place. 900 miles away, taking a 30% paycut. Of course, I have extended family moving in with me, so I won't be living by myself anymore.

When the dollar collapses? We'll be paring down, anyway. I'll be on a well, growing much of my own food anyway.

We'll be ok.