Stupid question but Why do so many people hate Hilary?

[NNguyenMD]

I was age 10-18 during the golden years the Big Dawg was in charge, how has this group of people (freepers and some liberals) developed such a deep seeded hatred for Hilary Clinton?

Was it because she stood by her husband during difficult periods of time? Or is it because she's a well educated, independent, strong woman with a good mind?

I really just don't get it, even some Bush haters I know can't stand Hilary, but they seem to hate her so much I'm almost afraid to ask them why. I sure as hell can't figure out why. Was "Hilary-Care" really THAT bad?

Second question, can anyone here sum up Hilary's now defunct healthcare plan?

[Onlooker]

1. The more effective someone is, the more the opposition fears them

No one hated Carter or Ford. They were ineffective. Lots of people hated the likes of Clinton, Reagan, Kennedy, Bush II. They were effective. The Republicans truly fear Hillary, going so far as to describe her as the rock star of the Democratic Party. They are doing their best to defeat her candidacy before it even starts. The Republicans are smart to do that because Hillary will be hard to beat. I wish the Democrats would start doing the same thing against Jeb Bush, but the Democratic Party strategists aren't as smart as their counterparts in the Republican Party.

[Canuckistanian]

2. The second reason.

"she's a well educated, independent, strong woman with a good mind"

Scares the Hell out of 'em. She could beat them at their own game.

And then what would they tell the children?

[oldtime dfl_er]

18. right -o

www.cafepress.com/blackoutbush

[intheflow]

3. She doesn't have a penis.

Yet she still voices opinions and dares equality with men!

:sarcasm:

[donco6]

45. I believe you are more correct than not.

Sad to say.

We are neanderthals.

[intheflow]

53. We're not all neanderthalls.

Have some faith, Brother donco6! I feel the tides turning. Nothing is forever, and even the robber barons fell to the unions and women's suffrage. We can overcome this fascist regime. Hell, they're imploding on themselves now that they can't blame the Dems for anything. :) It'll take decades to reverse the damage they've done, but I do believe they're on their way out.

[donco6]

54. I think you're right, actually.

It's just easy to be morbidly cynical. But it does seem more people are beginning to think just a tiny bit for themselves.

[intheflow]

56. "morbidly cynical"

!!! :rofl:

Hey, I see by your profile you're in Denver. How are you surviving the blizzard? I'm dreading shoveling tomorrow! :scared:

[donco6]

58. We've been shoveling off and on

today. It's not been too bad, actually. The streets must have been quite warm, because there are pretty good tracks down to pavement. I'm sure the drive tomorrow will be interesting.

[acmejack]

4. You are partially correct

The third corporatist way offends many on the left. The freepers are pretty much down with the reasons you listed. Plan in a nutshell http://www.aegis.com/pubs/atn/1993/ATN18403.html

[Triana]

5. she's a well educated, independent, strong woman with a good mind

...and most of of ALL, her presence in any position of power, be it the Senate, the Presidency or Vice Presidency, would threaten to change the status quo and threaten to change the structure of the powers that be, such that they do not or cannot benefit anymore in the ways they do now...

Hillary - a woman in a position of power, will mean CHANGE and that is a huge threat to them.

[Lindacooks]

24. Yep, strong women scare the crap out of weak men.

Especially Repuke men, who already have very, very small and inadequate 'equipment'.

[Snap]

51. Skeeerd and Sexist Assholes.

[Triana]

66. they're insecure control freaks...

...women like Hillary scare the bejeesus out of them. It's both disgusting and funny to watch, though...

[Just Me]

61. She moves female competency a step forward,...and THAT is,...

,...challenging to those who still cling to a "status quo".

She is simply a sort of "icon" that represents change,...which most people resist,...but all people must face and embrace, eventually.

[KG]

6. because they were told to,

that has been my impression. all clinton haters i've queried were RW ditto-heads unable to articulate a reason.

[tabasco]

17. Exactly.

My cousin freeper was expressing his disgust at Hillary. I said " all she did to me was try to get me some health insurance, why do you hate her?" He couldn't give one reason.

[roguevalley]

31. she tacks to the right when its politically expedient. her voting record

along with many dems is a rightish thing. I want someone who is strong enough to be a dem all the time, not just when its safe. That is why she won't be getting my vote and the rest of my family. its not a woman or a Clinton thing. Its a dem thing.

[saltpoint]

7. I liked Bill Clinton more after Starr went after him for the --

-- uh, 'adulterous affair' with Monica Lewinsky. Tax dollars should not be used to fuel the Right's hatred of Bill and Hillary Clinton and could have been better spent on almost anything else than the president's sex life.

For me, it's roughly the same with Hillary. I'm not hogwild about the moves she's making toward the right side of the spectrum, but when that shithead Rush Limbaugh starts in on her, I'd stand and happily defend her to the death.

I prefer other more liberal Democratic nominees in 2008 but let Limbaugh, Hannity, Santorum, et al start in on her and I feel like kicking their worthless asses from here to Hong Kong.

[xmas74]

52. Exactly how I feel.

She tends to swerve to the right when it seems to be the popular way to go. I prefer someone much more liberal.
OTOH, she's like the brother you cannot get along with very well. You can say all the nasty things that you want to about him since he is your brother, but all hell will break loose if someone else outside of your family says the same.

[Demonaut]

55. more bombs , not broads

as spoken by a KKKoworker

[xmas74]

65. Kick him in the balls next time he says it.

[saltpoint]

63. Yes. The Right's attacks on her are unwarranted.

They're anti-feminist and so a smart and successful woman scares them to death.

[xmas74]

64. I don't want her as my candidate in 2008.

But if she is I will fight tooth and nail for her. I will go door to door here in freeperland and take the nasty comments. Why? Because she would be better than anyone that the pukes can offer up.

[NightOwwl]

8. I don't hate her.

I think she's a phony, pandering politician who doesn't have a sincere bone in her body. She wastes time with non-issues like video games because she believes moving to "the center" will increase her chances to remain politically viable. She puts herself before the good of the Democratic party.

I have no respect for her. I don't trust her. I don't want her anywhere near the 2008 election.

But I don't hate her.

[question everything]

28. Perhaps she thinks that the center is the good of the Democratic Party

After all, this is what Bill did and he won twice and would win again if he could.

Yes, many of us do not like this moving to the center. I did, but no longer, not when the center means "taking another look" at women's right to privacy, or trying to reach the red staters by sprinkling Jesus in one's speeches, or..

And, really, since she did grow up Republican it should not be too hard for her to believe that the center is the place to be and to win.

[kliljedahl]

36. Amen to that

Figuratively, not literally. Add to that the fact that more people dislike her than like her, & she'd never win. More people would be voting against her than for her opponent. I'm speaking for the US as a whole, not the state of NY. Just my $.02. I'd vote for her against any repug, but she'd still lose.


http://www.kliljedahl.net

[NNguyenMD]

9. Just for the record I like Hillary Clinton, but for now I don't believe

that she's the best candidate for 2008. I'd like to see what other future candidates have to say.

[noamnety]

10. The power of talking points

After 50 "news reporters" repeat the phrase, it becomes the truth. Kind of like Kerry being a flip flopper.

[Goldeneye]

11. From what I gather

its because of IWR and her "pandering." To me the pandering seems like she's framing the debate.

I always think its interesting how Hillary is bad, but Bill is always the beloved "Big Dawg." He was president, so that may partially explain it, but their stance on positions is almost the same, so the only thing I can figure is that they don't like the way Hillary presents herself. Maybe I'm way off...

[Virginian]

21. The left is mad at her for that. The freepers really hate her.

They have always hated her. Maybe it was due to her involvement in the Watergate investigation. That may also be why they came after both the Clintons for Whitewater -- retaliation. That may be what started the hatred, the rest of the sheeple just hate her because they were told to.

[yurbud]

12. only because they were told to

There are more manly, emasculating, dominatrix women in the GOP, and nobody says a peep about Libby Dole, or more recently Karen Hughes, who would easily be the toughest guy on any construction crew and would scare the bejesus out of most sumo wrestlers.

If Rush Limbaugh told people their own grandmothers were satan worshipping communist who need to be smothered in their sleep, the life expectancy of old ladies would drop dramatically.

If they said Mother Theresa looked like Boris Karloff, every time she was on TV, dittoheads would make noises like the Frankenstein monster.

[Virginian]

13. I also want to know why they hate her

I asked my wealthy republican cousin, thinking I could get a rational answer out of her and she went off on me for asking. Then she got to the part where she said all the women in the Clinton cabinet were lesbians.
The first female cabinet member I could think of was Madeline Albright. So I asked incredulously, "Madeline Albright is gay?"
That seemed to stop the tirade of venom and bile so I let the topic drop in order to remain on speaking terms with the cousin.

I never did hear why people are supposed to hate her. I just heard the hatred.

I wonder if anyone knows why they hate her or if they are just programmed by Rush Limbaugh and the neo-con clones. If there isn't a reason, it can't be dispelled with logic.

[yurbud]

14. totally unrelaed to her personality, just ambition and spouse

[NNguyenMD]

15. you know what would be a great way to start her campaign for president?

if she went on TV with a few independent voter/Hillary hater and asked upfront why they dislike her.

[bush_is_wacko]

16. Read up about Hillary's most distinguished career

writing legal opinion papers during the Nixon impeachment that virtually mirrored to Nuremberg defense saying that a president cannot be held accountable fro the actions of his subordinates. Read up on her other legal opinion of that era saying that a president is not entitled to cross-examine witness or have legal representation during his own freaking impeachment trial. Read up about how Hillary consistently tells the public about her wonderful "behind the scenes" investigations of various issues while REALLY consistently making a real effort to cover-up whatever is being investigated. For starters try Jerry Zeifmans book "Without Honor." He provides many sources of information from that point.

Hillary is NOT a truthful OR valuable politician. She is a figurehead for others. That is all she will EVER amount to. I have never voted for any Republican candidate in my life, but I might have to consider one of she EVER gets nominated.

Don't let the party lead you astray with regards to Hillary please. If she had done anything of value when her "opinions" mattered I might feel a little differently, but add her "health care" NON PLAN to the mix and I can assure you she isn't likely to ever work her way out of the hole she dug for herself. Hillary would have to release a whole lot of information she has no intention of ever allowing the public to see AND that information would have to disprove all the lies she's tried to use to her advantage over the years. I just don't see that happening.

Republicans and Democrats that paid attention KNOW she is nothing but a hypocrite!

[Pepperbelly]

27. What is your trip, dude or dudette?

That guy Jerry Zeifman is a nutcase touted at Free Republic. I read enough to know that he is possibly clinically insane.

He papers during the Nixon impeachment were fucking briefs ... anticipating all of the arguments and responses to them. I do not know why you are a Hillary hater but if you want to drag Zeifman into the forum, it certainly reflects on your own perceptions regarding veracity, doesn't it?

[bush_is_wacko]

35. I don't tout Zeifman but his sources speak for themselves.

If you want to know the truth you have to be willing to see both sides.

Maybe Hillary needs to offer up an explanation of what she did during the Nixon years. Since she doesn't I get my information from the places I can.

Attempting to call me out as a freeper is really just insane. I have no Republican leanings and I am a dudette. I'm not sure what you read that led you to believe Zeifamn is a nut case, but I can assure you he wasn't on Nixon's side during the impeachment. He was Chief Counsel to the House Judiciary Committee at the time and he WANTED the investigation to go forward. He had a long hard battle because of Hillary and several others who where trying to keep things hush, hush as opposed to Conyers (Yes, John Conyers) who wanted the investigation to go forward and pushed hard for it. Zeifamn and Conyers respected each other very much during those days. They may have been the only two members who fully expected a COMPLETE and TOTAL investigation and disclosure of the criminal actions of Richard Nixon.

I don't give a rats' ass what free republic says about him. Zeifamn was an honest man. Hillary has been far less honest!

[Pepperbelly]

41. Where did I do that ??

I questioned your judgement relying on this person.

And I still question your judgement. Covering up for the Cold War?

Give me a break.

[bush_is_wacko]

42. Ummmmmm, NO not covering up for the cold war!

Where did I mention cold war cover-up? the implication is that Hillary was covering up information about certain political figures in the White House at the time and just previous to the Nixon administration.

Question MY judgment all you want. I'm a big enough girl to take it, but I suggest you question your OWN judgment from time to time too.

Read up on the woman. It is clear you have fallen prey to the rhetoric about her. You aren't even willing to consider that she is NOT a pillar of the community.

I can assure though the contingent of "anyone but Hillary" is FAR larger than the party is willing to admit and we are far more aware of the truth about her than you are willing to admit.

Hillary is the end for MANY. I could go libertarian or green, I suppose. I have never attempted it, but I have looked into some of the contenders. Hillary as a nominee might just lead to a third party in this country but it sure as hell won't lead to a successful bid at the White House for the Democratic Party.

I don't know who you think you're playing with, but I am no dummy and it seems to me Hillary would be THE best candidate for the Republican party to get the nomination!

[Pepperbelly]

44. that was what HE said ... nt

[bush_is_wacko]

47. Who? Zeifman? Not anywhere I read! Link? n/t

[Pepperbelly]

48. and the more I rad about this guy ... he jumped aboard the Ken

Starr Special, you know...

Whatever. Drag this fucker around all you want but HIS motivations in the matter seem clear.

[bush_is_wacko]

84. Link? and what makes you think Starr didn't have information that needed

to be investigated? He may have been an asshole, but that doesn't mean there wasn't enough information to require an investigation. the fact that he didn't uncover enough doesn't mean there wasn't any. Unfortunately, his goal was to impeach Bill and all he could come up with was a blow job! When Hillary's closets are looked into, she isn't going to come out smelling the same.

If the party wants to take back the WH they have to provide a better candidate than Hillary!

It never ceases to amaze me how many people think just because someones a Democrat they aren't corrupt as hell! The DNC damn well KNOWS better! I can name at least three, off the top of my head, that are stuck in la la land for the duration of their political careers because they are too corrupt to go any higher than they are right now. None of them have reached Hillary's level because they weren't married to a president. The DNC threw them to the wolves the minute enough Dems got together and told them they knew the truth about them. They ought to take a lesson from the same page over Hillary!

[ProgressiveConn]

19. I don't hate Hillary but I do think she is Republican-Lite.

As others mentioned she has a strongly authoritarian view of the law. And she is a part of the Corporate-DLC wing of the party. She did not stand up for us when she needed to most: Iraq and the Patriot Act.

I might be able to accept her as a VP Candidate but surely she wont be getting my primary vote. =)

[smirkymonkey]

71. That's how I feel as well.

She seems too beholden to corporate interests. And Bill schmoozing with the Bushes has me suspicious.

I consider my self a hardcore liberal Democrat, and though I don't dislike the Clintons, I don't trust their motives either. I think they care way too much about power to be an effective antidote to the criminal right.

I would support her over a Republican any day, but I want to see our party stand up for it's principles instead of selling out for the sake of the "mainstream vote". Although if she'd sweeten the deal with a promise of national health care for all I would vote for her without holding my nose.

[cidliz2004]

20. It all started when Bill was campaigning and he said that by electing him

we would get 2 - meaning he was bringing Hillary in and actually admitting that she had more to offer than tea parties and one "emotional" seemingly "female" cause to head. Also, the Jennifer Flowers thing was going on and Hillary was being interviewed and asked about the allegations and she basically said that she wasn't Tammy Wynette and wouldn't "stand by her man" if he were cheating on her.

When Bill Clinton took office, he made good on his campaign promise that Hillary would take an active role in his Presidency. Well, the outrage broke. "Who does she think she is?" was the common remark as was ," we didn't vote for her!!!!!!" - - - The truth is that the people who were protesting the loudest were right. AND I mean that on both fronts, they were mainly Republicans and they DIDN'T vote for Hillary, because they didn't vote for Bill Clinton. If they had voted for Bill Clinton, they would have done so knowing what he stated were his intentions for Hillary's role. The Health Care was not her finest hour, but no matter what, she was doomed and put back into the corner. The American people as a whole weren't ready for the "break" from the traditional role of the 1st Lady. Too revolutionizing for them. The focus was all on that and some of the missteps of Bill Clinton early in his presidency. Hillary was moved to the background and Bill Clinton learned how to play the game in Washington.

This country is still not accepting women as equal to men. If a woman even dares to show strength and doesn't act demure and traditionally female, way too many people - men and women both get very uncomfortable and subconsciously if not consciously object and respond negatively. Women's rights still has a long way to go.

That is why Hillary will never be elected into the WH in 08', and if the Democrats are stupid enough to run her, then they are asking for another loss. Like it or not a woman will not be electable. As sorry as I am for that fact, it - is - fact. I personally would love to see it - if for nothing else but maybe to see the Republicans move to Canada.


The other most obvious but none the less important reason is that she is Bill Clinton's wife.

[InfoMinister]

22. The Healthcare Plan Is The Reason I Always Hear

A lot of people got angry about that healthcare plan because people said they couldn't go to their doctor they'd been going to for years.

[Pepperbelly]

29. Which was a scurrilous lie ...

but the lies make it half way around the world before truth gets it's socks on.

[Bouncy Ball]

40. AND that healthcare plan didn't pass, so what do they care?

I mean, it never DID affect them at all!

[seabeyond]

23. because she and her husband play the game so well, and we see

how well they play the game. and we say, we see you pplaying the game. damn tired of the game., quit fuckin playing it and acting like we cant see and do your damn job

or me anyway

[earth mom]

59. Exactly-she changes positions with the wind!

I was pretty neutral about her until the Monica scandal. Any other woman would have kicked Bills' ass to the curb for such a public humilation-but NO-not Hillary! Instead, she was ever the politician and pretended it was no big deal. Sorry, but I had zero respect for her after that. Since then she & Bill have proven themselves to be rethug-lite by aligning themselves with * and his evil regime. Both of them should be running in the opposite direction, but instead they are playing suck up to get what they want. It's disgusting! :puke:

[seabeyond]

76. i dont see she changes position in the wind

i dont blame her for her behavior for what bill clinton did. i think that is just horrible. here she is first lady in whitehouse and you want her to what, throw a little fit. have a catfight for all the males to get all excited about. i think she handled herself extraordinarily good during that really hard time for her. where she did nothing wrong. and would never attack her because of her husbands behavior

so you agreeing with me, lol lol doesnt make me feel good. not at all what i was talking about

i feel to often she goes along with bush and doesnt fight him. she plays politics too well

[earth mom]

79. Oops...looks like we aren't on the same page here...

Though it sounded like you thought she was too much the politician who would do ANYTHING to get what she wanted.

I guess I'm just one of those people who wouldn't sell my soul for love, money, power or fame. So it's difficult for me to support or respect those who have and will sell their souls for such empty reasons. Again, Hillary staying with Bill after his unfaithfulness was the turning point for me with her. She stayed with him for political reasons which is being proven out in everything she and Bill have done and said lately. I don't call what they have love and certainly wouldn't want that in my own marriage, but hey, that's me. I realize that no one is perfect and that maybe faithfulness isn't for everyone...but then why stay married if that is so? :shrug:

Bottom line and something Hillary & Bill may not realize is that many people DO see through the hypocrisy and b.s. of what they are all about.

[seabeyond]

81. in another thread someone suggested democrats

didnt support clinton during time of trouble and why he went to the dark side. democrats did. they re elected him. he has high approval, and it was because of what the repugs were doing. but i had to hold my nose doing it. i dont approve of clinton behavior with women at all. as far as the marriage, i wouldnt have it in mine either. but i am not living theirs, and i just cannot decide what it is about because i dont know. all thru the thing i said i wouldnt be friends with these people, but then they dont have to be my friends. not what we elect them for

but by 2000 people had had enough. that was gores challenge. people wanted to clean out the whitehouse. bill created that

[B Calm]

25. She won't show them her vagina, and thats why they hate her.

[Disturbed]

33. a well educated, independent, strong woman with a good mind

So are Boxer, Polosi and a other female Congress persons that are liked by most Dems. I do not feel that is the reason. I believe she is not liked by many Dems, especially progressives because many feel that she is a mere opportunist.

[Trajan]

26. Hillary scares the bejeezus outta the GOP ...

Because she can win .... She can triangulate and maneuver like her husband, she is articulate, witty and intelligent ...

Men fear their own little penises when a strong women questions them intellectually .... They must smash down the source of that fear ...

[Placebo]

30. Liberals feel threatened by her.

They know she'll overshadow all other candidates in the Democratic primaries and win the nomination in 2008. That pisses them off because they know none of their preferred leftovers from 2004 have a chance.

They've bought into the Republican-produced propaganda that she's unelectable, too liberal, Karl Rove's wet dream, a sure loser, blah blah blah...

I say again: why would the Republicans pick now to start telling the truth? Of course they're not going to admit they're scared of her, they'll do the exact opposite, acting like she's a dream come true for their party.

Now I hear people saying that she has no right to be the first female President (these are liberal democrats, btw) since she would have only gotten there because of her husband. I say that's insulting to Hillary. It's like saying she would be nothing without her husband. She did have a life before Bill Clinton, and I'm convinced she would have gone on to public office even if she never met or married Bill. And I say to them: What would JFK have been without his father? What would Al Gore have been without his father? These are great politicians and great American leaders who might have gotten a head start by way of some family member, but nevertheless went on to be their own person. Is Hillary somehow less deserving?

[Lexingtonian]

32. Frank Luntz has said

-and he's a Republican pollster- that the explanation is: "She reminds men over age fifty of their first wife."

For the anti-Hillary faux frenzy, you have to understand the New York Republican Party. It is a mix of multigenerational upstate WASP or German descent white rural conservatives, including a bit of Religious Right, combined with reactionary whites from more recent immigrant groups mostly Catholic and patriarchal, e.g. Italian-Americans and (more recently) Irish-Americans and some Orthodox Jews. The whole is run by a small set of wealthy, Wall Street-centered New York City folk, mostly quite reactionary and resentful, generally WASP and to some degree neocon Jewish and with some mix of others.

Hillary is all the things these groups resent- female, educated and accomplished (high status), WASP but increasingly flexible and accepting of liberal/Modern Jewish approaches and views, and very intelligent- plus, able to put up a good and principled fight when challenged, which is what they viscerally fear.

They fought Hillary among Democratic voters by trying the carpet bagger thing, and lost. They fought Hillary among nonpartisans via Rick Lazio's challenge, and lost. Until her appearance, they felt New York to be up for grabs. Now their party is starting to lose its last control of the state government- the politically dead governor and their rapidly declining hold on the state Senate.

What's happening now is that Hillary has solid backing of Democrats and nonpartisan voters- and her support (approval %s in the 60s) is starting to cut into what NY Republicans considered solidly Republican electorate. Basically, Republican women are ending their hostility and even going over to support for her. That has their Party scared that the bottom is going to fall out for them in '06 when Hillary campaigns. So far Rudi Giuliani has been something of a counter, but the Republican followup- and Bloomberg isn't even counted as such- on 9/11 has been so weak that his popularity is now a mile wide and an inch deep.

So what they're doing now is logical. The results are at best temporary, though.

[Malva Zebrina]

34. I don't hate Hillary

I just will refuse to vote for anyone who voted to give an insane, adolescent and stupid man, the go ahead to do what he and his insane. lying buddies wanted--and that was to wage pre-emptive war on Iraq.
And further to justify the doctrine of pre-emption.

Sorry, I will not, and cannot do it. Single issue? You bet. I will not participate any longer in war mongering, and murder and killing and invading a country to get their stuff. I will not participate in supporting anyone who used the lives and the certain deaths of innocent people,many of them children, because they were thinking of the future political consequences to THEMSELF.

I will not.

An unexamined life is not worth living.

[housewolf]

37. Because they despise feminism

and they see her as feminism's "poster child."

Some also can't stand her "shrillness" which, I must admit, occasionally grates on my ears as well.

[Bouncy Ball]

38. I have no idea why anyone hates her.

She never did anything to me. But I noticed, as with Teresa Heinz, right wingers, both men and women, do NOT like wives who speak up and speak their minds. In fact, they don't like WOMEN to do that, period.

So maybe that's a big factor. I don't hate her, but she's not my favorite Democrat, either.

[proud2BlibKansan]

39. She's a bright articulate highly intelligent woman

That is a threatening idea to conservatives. They want their women sittin at home bakin cookies.

[Clark2008]

43. I don't hate her. I just don't think she can win in this environment.

For one thing, we'll still be a country at war in 2008 - with someone because that's how blivet likes it - and in many parts of the "red" country and even in some of the "blue" states, left-leaning moderates and independents still won't vote for a woman for president while we're at war. It's a sad, but true statement on how little women have come since the Women's Movement began (and I'm female).
Secondly, there's the issue of media control. I realize that in larger cities, there is more access to a variety of media and more points of view are told. However, this is not the case in the South and mid-West. One has to note that, even many of the cities in these "red" parts of the country, went blue in 2004, but there simply aren't as many cities there as there are in Northeast and West Coast. Without access to anything besides Rush, Hannity and Savage, commuters will only hear about who "librul" and "self-serving" Hillary is.
Finally, there is the Dem base, who seems not to like Hillary much because of her hawkish stance on the Iraqi war and what is seen as her pandering to the right.
I don't hate her, but she's not even close to my ideal. I probably won't vote for her in 2008 should she be the nominee because, in my state, at least, she won't garner more than 38 percent of the vote, so I might as well vote for someone I REALLY like, whether that's a third-party candidate or a write-in.

[Bluebear]

46. Oh it's not deep-seated hatred....

When she started her faith-based preaching last year she lost me. Not because I am agnostic but because it rang hollow to me all of a sudden.

[Lilith Velkor]

68. She lost me on the war vote

Before that, she was indifferent-to-OK. Now I despise her.

[RAF]

49. my opinion

I'm a life long Democrat and truly loved the so called golden years under Bill Clinton.

In the case of Hillary, I first think there many more qualified people to represent us as president, Wes Clark being at the top of the list.

Secondly, I have found it pretty despicable how she has deliberately and openly swung right for the sake of political positioning.

I'm fed up and sick to my stomach with business as usual politics. We need and outsider with integrity to reshape this country from ground up. Someone to reunited a fractured populace. Someone, no matter what party you belong to can rally around. I see Wes Clark filling the bill on all the above.

[UdoKier]

50. Elizabeth Dole is also a well-educated, independent strong woman

with a good mind. (pro-choice to boot!)


But I don't like to vote for republicans, and Hillary is too close to them ideologically for my taste.

I don't hate (nor do I hate Dole). But I'd be much more excited by a Boxer or McKinney candidacy, or even a Pelosi candidacy than Hillary.

As for HillaryCare, the right hated it because it might have helped some poor people get health coverage. The left hated it because it was a huge giveaway to health insurance companies who should have been excluded entirely in favor of a single-payer system.

[Adelante]

57. I don't hate Hillary

I admire her. :hi:

[Piperay]

60. I myself love Hillary

I just don't want her to run for President because she will be defeated by those legions who hate her so much, she's lightening rod..:banghead:

[paineinthearse]

62. Hillary just LOVES India

Working hard to send our middle class jobs to Bangalore.

[RPM]

67. Men fear her; Women resent her

all because "she's a well educated, independent, strong woman with a good mind"

sad statement on society it is.

[Erika]

70. I don't resent her, in ways I admire her

but she has turned into Bush lite. It's not her gender I have problems with, it's her politics.

[RPM]

77. i don't know enough about your background, but

I do know a bit about my mother-in-law and her friends' backgrounds. They are, age-wise, contemporaries of Hillary.

They resent her because they stopped working and raised kids - they are offput by the fact that she has accomplished great professional success as well as raising a good daughter. More often than not, they seem to agree with her political stances - yet they dislike her because she did what they thought they would do in the 60s, only to become 50s style housewives in the 70s....

[Clark2008]

82. I don't resent her. I'm glad she's made to where she is.

It speaks volumes about her ability to land on her feet.
My only issue with her is that she won't flip any red states and I am actively trying to get my fellow Southerners (and the folks in the mid-West) to look past the person and toward the politics they keep voting for to see how it's ultimately harming them.
With Hillary, they won't get past the person - a person who's been vilified in the red states for 12 (and by 2008, 16) years. You just cannot undo that kind of damage in 24 months.
Give me a Clark or a Warner - I can work with a candidate who could inspire red staters to look at the policies and not the party.

[expatriate]

69. A lot of reasons why people might hate her are given here

and I think a lot of them are accurate. The reasons vary, as the individuals who dislike her vary.

I do have a question though - does anyone here truly think that Hillary Clinton or any woman would ever be elected President taking into consideration the present political and social climate in America? I think she'd have an iceberg's chance in hell - for no other reason than that many Americans simply will not vote for a woman for the office of President. I don't think they're justified, but I think that's a pretty accurate summation of what would happen.

Personally, I feel that anyone qualified should, in the perfect America, have a fair go at becoming President, regardless of ethnicity, gender or faith - but I just can't see America, at this point in time, voting in a female President - or, for that matter, a Jewish President, or a President of color.

It's a sad thing to say, and is a sad indictment of the social atmosphere in the USA. No matter how hard I try to rationalize it and be as pragmatic about the issue as I can, I just can't see it happening - not right now. Maybe twenty years from now, once some of the current voters in the US have aged and died off and been replaced by younger voters who were raised in different times, but not right now.

[Dees]

72. Go bake some cookies Hillary and on your way

back home get your husband off of the BFEE's lap. When you both feel like becoming Democrats again I'll consider voting for you.

[trogdor]

73. The right has succeeded in smearing her, that's why.

The methods used come right out of your high school psychology textbook. You hear the same thing often enough, for long enough, and you start to believe it. Think Pavlov's dogs. Now, all you have to do is say her name, and you get some people barking about her. Nominate her, and the bit with the Swift Boat Vets will seem like a polite misunderstanding.

[Erika]

74. Agreed

She has been smeared but she also has turned into Bush lite. That aside, she is an amzing woman. I just don't want her as the nominee.

[patricia92243]

75. As usual we let the Republicans tell us what to think!

[Princess Turandot]

78. She had a 'think tank' assembled of 'experts' in healthcare..

including a lot of academic types. In the end, they came up with a convoluted system which would have allowed groups of people to form 'buying groups', which would then negotiate with insurance companies/HMOs to get better rates. I was doing healthcare financial & consulting work at the time at a very large firm, and our first publication on the topic had a rather remarkable fold-out diagram of overlapping circles, arrows, lines, footnotes et al. We couldn't really make heads or tails out of the proposal, but knew if it went forward, we'd have a new line of consulting work.

I honestly do not recall whether there were any price controls involved on anything, or mandated coverage: I think the free market was supposed to take care of those matters.

Just IMO, it was a catastrophe. I think it enhanced the notion that an uncomplicated national health system was not possible, continued to put healthcare dollars into insurance companies and perhaps worse of all, gave much more attention to 'managed care' as a panacea for America's health troubles. (This was before it became clear to many people that managed care often meant rationed or no care.) I think that foray set back the possibility of universal healthcare a great deal.

Of course, the underlying reason for the system which they developed had to be married to one principle: 'thou shalt not remove the insurance companies from the healthcare process.'

I loved Bill Clinton, but the Hillary healthcare project was a fiasco IMO.

[Kimber Scott]

80. Hillary's my President. nt

[bunkerbuster1]

83. You'd hate her too, if you believed what the noise machine says.

That's 90% of it--she's a threat to the RW, so they've issued a fatwa going back to 1992.

Me? It's taken about 12 years for me not to cringe when I hear her speak; maybe she's improved her delivery, or maybe I've just grown accustomed to her stage presence, which makes John Kerry look like Mick Jagger. I don't know if she's our best shot for 2008, but I'll be damned if the noise machine is going to tell me she's not.