The "end-times" have been predicted many times before....

[jandrok]

Here's an interesting site that documents some of the failed prophesies.

http://www.sullivan-county.com/nf0/y2k/ccon.htm

My question revolves around the current "end-time" craze currently sweeping through the fundamentalist Christiam community. This "end-time" trend seems to be more dangerous than those of the past simply because those who buy deeply into it have acquired access to some of the highest seats of power here in the US, and are now actively seeking to spread that control to seats of power in other countries.
These "end-timers" seem to be doing everything in their power to actually bring about Armageddon.

My question is this: at what point does the belief in Armageddon begin to lose ground? How long before people within the movement begin to question the authenticity of the prophesy and popular support for the movement begins to atrophy? How long before all of this "peaks" and we can once again begin to plan for the future of this planet?

[Burma Jones]

1. As soon as you have enough money and power

And then you just take advantage of the religious imbeciles.

[Hissyspit]

2. You'd think people would recognize the pattern after a while.

End-of-the-World Predictions: They are zero-for-zero.

[Tux]

3. 2000/2001

Jesus is late and it's caused by the godless liberals.

End times will never go away. They believe it so much some even believe, as my fundie uncle does, that non-Christians must be sacrificed to god so Jesus can return.

If this crap keeps up, we may see the end of our species.

[Melodybe]

4. I thought that those who work to bring about the end times were

those that followed satan.

[InternalDialogue]

5. End-of-times fervor was rampant in 1000 AD and 1666 AD too

Ironically, modern end-of-times proponents subscribe to the same general level of scientific theory doomsayers did back then.

[prodigal_green]

6. typically up to 11 years

There is actually a term for it: Millenial Disappointment

There was a whole conference on it a couple of years ago:

http://www.mille.org/events/2002-schedule.html

[Brotherjohn]

7. My reasoning as to why "end-times" talk is ridiculous... follow me here...

Most Christian faiths believe that when the end time comes... Revelations, Armageddon, Second Coming, etc... you will be judged before God and sent to either heaven or Hell (or Purgatory, if you're Catholic) based on the life you've lived. Right?

Most Christian faiths also believe that at the end of your life (when you die)... you will be judged before God and sent to either heaven or Hell (or Purgatory, if you're Catholic) based on the life you've lived. Right?

Now, End-Timers scream and preach to us that we MUST repent (and basically do whatever THEY say is right), and NOW, because the end times may be coming in YOUR lifetime.

Well...

... if you're going to be judged at the end of your lifetime anyway, then your "end time" is coming "within your lifetime" anyway (just at the very end of it). And no one knows when that will be. Could be 50 years from now, could be tomorrow. In fact, the record of End-Timers predictions shows that Armageddon is likely not going to come before you die.

So my question is, "Why the urgency?" Aren't we all going to be judged at the end of our lives anyway (if you believe)? And isn't that as likely to happen as soon as the "End Times", or sooner?

The answer, of course, is that preaching "Armageddon' is much scarier and likely to convert more people. More fireworks. It packs more punch when you say it's going to happen to 5 BILLION people alongside you. Also, they can increase the urgency by saying "your time" is going to come (End Time), basically, "before your time comes" (your natural death).

But there really is no difference, if you already believe, between the "End Times" and your own "end time".

[jandrok]

13. Logic never seems to be part of the equation. (n/t)

[GiovanniC]

8. My Ex-Girlfriend Went to a Psychic Once

The psychic told her that she was looking into her future... "I see... I see you getting your hair cut. It will no longer be waist-length... you will get it cut shoulder-length. And you are going to break up with your boyfriend."

The next day, she went out and got a haircut and broke up with me. Why? Because, according to her, "This is what the psychic said would happen." Self-fulfilling prophesy indeed. She wanted to believe in psychics so badly... so she set about proving the psychic correct.

Fundies are the same way, but even more so. They want to believe in their religion and their Bibles and their Revelations soooo badly that they set about setting the conditions to make those prophesies come true.

[Richard D]

9. Well . . .

. . . The only problem I see is that for the first time, so many forces are coming together in such a way that the end times scare might just turn out to be "the end." I'm speaking of the current ecological political climate nuclear insanity we are living with now, any one of which could easily, actually is actually changing the face of the entire planet as we know it.

[jandrok]

11. Yeah, I see that, too....

But I also see a counter-movement that could delay the situation long enough for common sense to rear it's head once more. The problem is, how long will that be? How much time do we have before someone finally pushes the button? I hate to believe that so many forces are in motion now that things can't be stopped.

[natrat]

19. what counter movement ?

some greens in germany? a few in seatle....full speed(in evolutionary terms) train wreck

[jandrok]

21. No, I was speaking more of the Sojourners style

of progressive Christianity. More focus on humanitarianism and mysticism as opposed to a fundamentalist, literalist approach to the religion.

[lagged_variable]

10. Never

The belief in Armageddon will never lose ground. Christianity is an eschatological religion. The whole point is that the end times will be great (once the whole nasty Armageddon thing is over with). I'm not sure about people believing in any given doomsayer, but the general craze will never leave; it's pretty much the hope and goal of the religion!

[jandrok]

12. Very true, but Christianity also has a lot of adherents.....

...who don't buy into Armageddon at all. History tells us that religious cycles are a lot like other cultural cycles, they tend to wax and wane over time. When does the cycle once again begin to turn moderate as opposed to fundamantal?

[lagged_variable]

14. well

That's a much better question. And obviously, I have no idea.

[elehhhhna]

15. Was s'posed to happen in mid 1976 (IIRC) per my holyroller relatives...

My mom & her older sister called their bro (Mister Holy) the next moring at 5 a.m. to scream into the phone "We're still Heeeeeeere! HAHAHAHA!"

Good times...good times...

[Cleita]

16. I picked up a paperback back in the early seventies

that I thought was a fictional story about a huge earthquake and tsunami that was supposed to wipe out mankind.

To my surprise, the author was serious and wrote a book on how the rapture would happen. In the belfry of his mind, since giant tidal waves as disasters were the popular fear of the day providing California's San Andrea fault does it's job of splitting off the coast, he tied those fears in with the end times.

Although, as a Catholic, I had been familiar with the Biblical, last days and Ressurection of all who had ever lived on the earth dogma, this was the very first time I had heard of the fundie version. Wow!

[Mizmoon]

17. Hal Lindsey - The End , 80s Style

I remember one of his books suggested that perhaps the little remaining time before Rapture would be best spent preparing for the End Times rather than wasted in college. :crazy:

[natrat]

18. i'm not even a whacko and i think its end of times as we know it

[Solly Mack]

20. a religion that can give you a "better world" in the "here after"

will never ever lose the belief of "end of times"

It can't and survive. If you're looking forward to dying and going to heaven, you kind of need the end of times scenario ...it justifies your goodness...it "proves" your faith (read God) was "right" and it grants you a reward...

com'on now...everlasting life? that's a big draw. immortality is the stuff dreams are made of...

the suffering you do on earth is nothing to the great reward of the "here after"???? On my, such a promise could keep people toiling away in misery for eons...(and has)

(disclaimer: not all believers adhere to the same dogma and beliefs...some believers even find some brands of Christianity to be distorted and not above reproach and most certainly not every believer adheres to the particular belief structure I am describing (which DOES exist..I know..I grew up around such believers in my town)... I fully recognize that not all Christians are alike...for some Christians it's a path you walk as a follower of the teachings of Jesus and not some holy quest for the rapture and end of times. Some people see a merciful God and some people see a vengeful God..and there is a difference. Again, I recognise that. I am ONLY speaking of the "end of timers" I've run across in my time. Also: It's not just Christians that have some sort of an end of time reward scenario.)

now to continue:

this man dies on a cross for you...so that all your sins can be forgiven and wiped clean...that you can enter heaven...with streets of gold and angels everywhere.....where you can see your loved ones again...where "life" (more or less) continues...

and all you have to do is to believe it's possible...(and adhere to these rules and regulations).. though loopholes do exist...(once saved always saved...even on your deathbed you can be forgiven and go to heaven...to name but a few)

with the added bonus of the smiting of your enemies.. who are cast down into the fires of hell...an eternity of burning...( one day you'll get yours)

I rather seek justice one earth, personally....but that's just me

Honestly, with a deal like that, end of timers will always be around...their suffering will be over..and a better life ahead..their enemies punished....and all they have to do is die.

Like another poster said...the end of timers are more vocal and more visible at certain times..and then it cycles back around and they are less visible and less vocal...but still there...always there.

they are more vocal during times of uncertainty and great distress in the world (war,bad economy, bleak outlook for the future)...a lot of suffering with no sign of relief can make a person long for a higher power that doles out justice to right the wrongs...to be free of suffering once and for all.....when you feel helpless to change the environment around you, (all that suffering you see and are experiencing) you look for a higher power to aid you and comfort you.. and if your belief carries with it the end of all your suffering through death and being reborn...well, bring on the end of times!

(again, I rather seek that justice on earth...I rather right those wrongs on earth...but that's just me)

[jandrok]

22. Lotta food for thought, there. Well thought out response. Thanks!

And I certainly don't disagree with your posting. I'm just thinking that religious movements wax and wane much like other social mechanisms do. Invariably, given enough time and the right mix of social forces, the fundamentalists will lose momentun and the more moderate adherents to the faith will once again gain ground.

Will we see that this time, or will the fundamentalists run things so far into the ground that they basically acheive their goal of Armageddon?