first long term project liberals should undertake? war cuts

[More Than A Feeling]

(aka defense budget, but per a suggestion down below it is now the war budget)

A long term strategy for cutting the war budget is the first thing progressive think tanks, grassroots, and netroots should undertake. I think there are many here that would agree that, short of raising taxes, the only way to find money for the programs and agencies that would use it effectively and desperately need it will be found in the bloated war budget.

Now, the Republicans started back in 1983, planning to destroy social security. We can do the same with building support for war budget cuts. As an added bonus, cuts in the war budget would force the government to think long and hard about starting a war.(well, not this administration, but a theoretical administration in the future)

My own suggestion would be to push targetted legislation barring contractors who waste x amount of taxpayer money from bidding on contracts for x years, and we could push that via framing, astroturf and grassroots groups, and so forth. Build a constituency for this the long and hard way. Locate the interest groups would benefit from this (corporate rivals to the wasteful contractors?) and make common cause with them under an umbrella organization.

On edit: also, make it clear that the countries defense need will still be met, and make the distinction between that amount of money, and the amount beyond that that we would cut.

[cynatnite]

1. Wouldn't you say that getting troops out of Iraq would be a good start? nm

[More Than A Feeling]

3. and this is how we do it. Didn't congress shut off funding for vietnam?

The troops are going to be there longterm. I think a lot of us would agree with that. So if we are going to save them as soon as possible, we had better start work on killing the funding for this war.

Until we make it politically palatable to oppose, congress will continue to vote for these budget supplementals for the war.

[asthmaticeog]

2. I disagree - breaking up media consolidation is job one. n/t

[ThoughtCriminal]

4. Agree - nt

[More Than A Feeling]

6. If you have a concrete strategy for doing that, I would be glad to hear it

I believe that defense budget cuts won't happen on their own. Media consolidation breakup will happen on its own as more and more people get their news on the internet and other sources. Remember, blogs piss Rupert Murdock off. Why? because they undermine his consolidated power. So we can see, that media is already becoming diffuse, and it will continue to do so. Besides, the infrastructure built for budget cuts could easily be put to other uses

[asthmaticeog]

11. Concrete strategy: reinstate the antitrust laws that governed media

and restore the fairness doctrine.

[More Than A Feeling]

15. Ok, and how do we do that

The media will fight that strategy, because it targets them specifically. People will never hear about it, it will be painted in the most negative light possible, all the usual tactics.

My way, we don't antagonize the medium we need to carry our message. Besides, people already distrust any media that doesn't reinforce their bias. Restoring trust in the media would have to be the first thing, and that, I think, would be much harder.

[asthmaticeog]

24. OK, it'll never fucking work, then.

So uh, with a right-biased corporate dominated media, how do the Dems sell their defense cuts, Mr. Brilliant Tactician?

[More Than A Feeling]

27. Using the tactics I have outlined.

Groups formed specifically for this, framing, message discipline, blasting reporters who don't use our terminology, think tank studies. Use the blogs and activist groups to expose media that is opposing us to their competitors. Basically, full scale operations that target the media as an intermediate to our ultimate goal, not threatening the media itself. Otherwise known as exactly what Republicans have been doing for the past twenty years.

I am not trying to make anyone angry here. I am just defending my proposition, that attacking media consolidation does not have to be our main focus. I am not attacking you personally.

[Selteri]

29. Alright, then give Media an ultimatum

Either accept the antitrust laws and fairness doctrine being revived

OR

Face charges from the CEO and Ownership down of libel, sedition, interfering with the fair election process of the country, propoganda laws, publishing and divulging the name of a CIA agent, wreckless endagerment of troops... and anything else a smart DA can think of on the local, state and federal levels.

And the first person to be charged would be, Rupert Murdock.

Somehow I suspect at that point the news media channels would be complety behind the reinstatement of the anti-trust laws, fairness doctrine and adding in a few laws requiring that they actually be truthful.

[More Than A Feeling]

30. Now that would be interesting...

*pictures a reporter on tv saying "yesterday, the ____ administration threatened us with criminal charges..."*

[Selteri]

33. I'm sure O'reilly, Limbaugh and all those other

armchair fascists would then be forgetting all their criticism about the free press and going after whoever threatened them.

Look at Limbaugh and his constant attack against the police who are charging him for *gasp* buying and selling drugs illegally, when he has and might as well have admitted it with the actions he took afterwards.

[gmoney]

5. "SPITBALLS! SPITBALLS!!"

I'm not so sure the defense budget is the way to go... universal health care sounds like better bet.

[chlamor]

13. Nothing-Nada-Zilch

will/can be funded or is even on the radar until the Pentagon has DEEP cuts in the budget. More to the point your survival depends on it. This issue is so far out in front of every other issue nothing comes to a close second. Forget political expediency.

Largest contributor to greenhouse gasses and habitat destruction is BY FAR US Military

[Atman]

7. Can you say "political suicide?"

Every republican's campaign commercials would lead of with footage of planes hitting the Twin Towers, and then "DEMOCRATS DON'T CARE ABOUT YOUR SECURITY!" Never mind the minutia, I hear you. Gutting the waste, yeah, yeah, cool, we've heard it all forever. Sorry, I'm just playing Devil's advocate. If I were media adviser to any republican, I tell them to use it against us. It's a super easy target that American's will think they understand, and about which can be easily mislead.

[chlamor]

9. Can you say "Destruction of Planet Earth?"

Omnicide

Our country is now geared to an arms economy bred in an artificially induced psychosis of war hysteria and an incessant propaganda of fear.

– General Douglas MacArthur

[Atman]

16. I don't disagree with you

But we have to keep our eyes on the prize. And this is actually getting back into power. And once there, staying there. The republicans WILL use terra and security as an issue against dems should we make CUTTING DEFENSE our top priority. The American people want to be protected from Bush's terrorists, whether we DUers think they're imagined or not. Dems need to be FOR something, and health care and jobs and issues which HELP them will draw support. You can argue that you'll be paying for all the health care and education and jobs with saved defense money, but in the meantime, the republicans will be portraying us as week on defense at a time when terra is everywhere.

It is just a crazy strategy, IMHO. Be FOR something positive and good that will help Americans and make them feel like something is happening that will actually benefit them and improve their lives. Closing bases, cutting waste at the Pentagon? Huh? What's in it for me?

That's all I'm sayin'.

[More Than A Feeling]

20. Even if we get back into power, there will be no support for cuts

unless we create it. Once its there, our politicos can run on it and then retake power. Otherwise, we will gnash our teeth about "spineless politicians" yet again. We have to take control here. Our elected officials will only go where we lead them. We have to create the momentum to make this happen.

on edit: also, getting back into power is a short term goal. Not what I am talking about.

[wuushew]

21. Just do like they do with domestic programs

spending does not grow in relation population or GDP growth. Technically a postive increase in absolute dollars is not a cut.

[More Than A Feeling]

22. are you proposing we link it to GDP or population growth?

That's an interesting idea, if that is what you are saying.

[Atman]

31. Call it the Defense Of Defense Act

Then you can gut the hell out of it, just like Bush does with his Orwellian-named "initiatives."

[chlamor]

25. Here is what is in it for Them/Us

And you explain the connection between these social programs that are lost and the bloated Pentagon budget which is actually apprx. $800 bill/yr and folks get it. This is the prize. I think we can see here why politics is considered by many as an obfuscation. When planetary survival plays second fiddle to political strategy we are in deep shit. We are in Deep Shit. The Pentagon budget has been rising through all Admins. Dem & Reps.



Where Do Your Tax Dollars Go? NPP's latest publication shows how the average household's tax dollars are spent for every state and 193 cities, towns and counties.

To the right you will find a running total of what taxpayers are spending on the Iraq War. This total is based on estimates from Congressional appropriations

The War in Iraq Costsxx


$165,254,096,003



See the cost in your community:


Compare to the cost of:

PRE-SCHOOL

KIDS' HEALTH

PUBLIC EDUCATION

COLLEGE SCHOLARSHIPS

PUBLIC HOUSING

WORLD HUNGER

AIDS EPIDEMIC

WORLD IMMUNIZATION

http://www.costofwar.com/

[More Than A Feeling]

10. That's why it won't be an official party thing.

It will be an activist thing that they can easily distance themselves from until it takes on a life of its own and becomes too powerful to ignore.

[chlamor]

8. Nominate-The most important

issue in the world is the dismantling of the US Military Machine.

The worlds biggest polluter



www.warresisters.org

[DerekG]

26. You've done your homework, chlamor

William Blum. Michael Parenti. David McGowan. These names are familar, aren't they? After pouring over their works, I'd have to conclude that America has been the leading terrorist state since 1945--whose national security apparatus has undermined or crushed many a democratic movement across the globe.

Folks, don't even talk about "progress" if you think the defense budget could just use a little trimming.

[iconoclastic cat]

12. Go ahead and flame me, but I do not agree with your argument.

Reform, but do not dismantle.

[Fenris]

14. I agree with your phrasing somewhat.

The rhetorical target should not be the military budget, but delinquent contractors.

[More Than A Feeling]

18. Precisely, and getting rid of them would be a good opening to say

well, we've got all this extra money, lets cut the budget and send that money elsewhere.

[ProgressiveConn]

17. Its not defense its war. Until progressives reframe the debate

there is no way we can ever hope to fight the military industrial complex.

[More Than A Feeling]

19. "War budget cuts"...I like, I like!

Exactly the sort of strategy I am talking about.

[Massacure]

23. The military is filled with porkbarrel spending.

The costs could be cut without significantly effecting its size.

[DerekG]

28. Kick

From one who has the creeping suspicion he's been living on the Death Star all these years.

[chlamor]

32. The Empire