No, kids aren't dangerous, not at all

[proud2BlibKansan]

10-year-old boy in custody after father shot, killed

By LAURA BAUER

The Kansas City Star


A 10-year-old boy from southeast Kansas is in custody, suspected of fatally shooting his father Sunday night as the man sat on his living-room couch.

Robert D. Hamlin, 42, was found with a single gunshot wound to the back of the head, Allen County Sheriff Thomas Williams said. When police arrived at the home south of Humboldt, the father was already dead.

His son, a fourth-grader at Humboldt Elementary School, was found shortly after the shooting about a quarter-mile from the family's home, Williams said. The sheriff said he could not reveal a possible motive or say whether there had been an argument.

“The boy walked to a neighbor's house and turned himself in to the neighbor,” said Williams, who took the boy into custody about 8:30 p.m. Sunday. “… It's still something pretty hard to get your mind around.”

http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/news/local/11488673.htm

[JimmyJazz]

1. And the ten year old bought this gun where????

:shrug:

[proud2BlibKansan]

17. They live in the country

I would imagine they have guns in their home.

[JimmyJazz]

29. Is it requisite for someone who lives in the country to keep guns where

a ten year old has access to them? I'm not trying to be sarcastic, but clearly if the child wasn't given access to guns, he wouldn't have shot his father no matter how BAD he was/is.

[Goblinmonger]

33. Hey, guns don't kill people

bullets going really, really fast do.

[Bouncy Ball]

2. You think kids in GENERAL are dangerous???

[proud2BlibKansan]

18. No of course not

I just don't like these blanket statements I read here last night that kids are not dangerous.

[Krupskaya]

3. Kids are taught to be dangerous.

They don't come up with that by themselves.

Nice thread title. Sheesh.

[havocmom]

7. Left unsocialized , kids are wild animals who are interested in self

and that is the truth. When we fail to socialize them, they stay that way. For an illustration of my point, look to the White House. There is a grown, not well socilized kid there and he is making a big mess of the world.

There was a story last week about a nine year old who killed his mother.
Not the norm, but getting less uncommon all the time.

Kids will hit, bite, kick, throw naturally to express anger, frustration and/or attempt to exert control. As they get older, they will learn new methods. Unless they are taught skills to redirect these impluses, they will STAY VILOENT. Kids are so sweet and cute, but the fact is nature made them wholey self-serving and without guilt. Fact is, the traits we generally like to associate with kids, sweet, mild, gentle, loving are the learned ones. The tendency to use violence to get what they want is what nature put there. THAT is the instinct. To control others is to survive when you are small and 'helpless'.

[bobthedrummer]

13. No, you are describing a pathological situation, NOT the norm

cross-culturally. The youngest can be the most violent, true, but that's usually a reaction to abuse and/or when they are on drugs.

[proud2BlibKansan]

24. And don't forget what can happen

when Mom drinks or drugs while pregnant.

[havocmom]

28. Nope, the younger they are, the more basic. They want to survive, makes

sense, no? They will kick and fuss. They get needs met and they settle down. Now, as they get older, it is the job of the caregiver to teach them when it is appropriate and when it is not appropriate to kick and fuss. We teach them not to swing wildly at our faces and when they are behaving in an acceptable manner by the tones of voice we use.

A kid is a blank slate and we either parent them to help that slate fill with info which will allow the child to fit in or we fail to varying degrees, which has a correspondence with how well the child will do with others.

If not parented, taught, given consistent feedback, they do not learn. They end up feral.

Now, a lot of social, cultural conditions contribute to how well we do the job of parenting. Am firmly convinced that our present cultural 'norms' are NOT conducive to good parenting. First, we live in a culture which gives lip service to parenting, but really isn't structured so it happens often or well. With the emphasis on working for commerce, parents don't have time/resources to dedicate to childrearing at it's best.

And stats show that kids who get warehoused in crowded daycare from early age tend to be much more aggressive. Gee, why is that? Maybe because they do not get ample one on one attention. They compete and the competition is critical cuz they know instinctively that unless THEY get attention, they will not survive. So they do whatever it takes to get as much one on one attention. That reinforces the notion that they have no limits.

With good one on one attention early on, a child learns limits, boundaries and that care will come in time, therefore they become calmer and more patient. They ARE NOT BORN with that knowledge and skill, it is learned.

Too often, it is not taught so the kids just escalate the inappropriate behaviors as they get older and the stressors change/increase. By the time they hit school, too many simply have never learned to do self calming, to realize that help will come in time, to be patient and 'wait their turn'. If they don't learn those things before school, how will teachers teach? How can we expect a teacher to do with 30 kids, 6 hours a day what parents did not do with one child, 24/7?

Then toss in the social construct that no adult other than the parent is allowed to correct the child. Hmmm, gee, and mom is at work. She will get fired if she picks the kid up from school... So we just pass the problem down the line.

The root is that parents are not supported, taught, encouraged TO PARENT in our society. One generation after another of this and we have some serious trouble.

Babies need to be socialized. Gentle behavior modification done with voice and the giving or withholding of attention will reinforce behavior. What we respond to is what gets reinforced. If we give in to screaming tantrums in a tot, which might seem easier than just ignoring a tantrum, will seem easier right now, but what it teaches the child is going to get harder and harder to deal with. And it will make the child unlovable, which is the saddest thing of all, because babies ARE born loveable. When they become little brats, that is our fault.

[bobthedrummer]

36. Ever hear of Abraham Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs theory after

raising a couple of your own children? That's been my experience.

[Demit]

11. The OP forgot to attribute the quote, is all. It's by "Strawman"

Who says a lot of ridiculous things nobody ever quite catches him saying.

[Goblinmonger]

34. That's funny

I don't think a lot of people got it, but I'm laughing!

[BigMcLargehuge]

4. MUAHAHAHAHAH my plan is coming to fruition!!!

[Neshanic]

15. Paul Lynde singing "What's the matter with kids these days?"

[Pithlet]

5. Anyone with a gun is potentially dangerous

I'm not sure what you're saying. You think kids are dangerous?

[proud2BlibKansan]

19. Most are not

but it is unwise to say that ALL kids are not dangerous.

[Pithlet]

23. Who says that?

:shrug:

[proud2BlibKansan]

25. Several comments on the

handcuffed 5 year old story.

[ihaveaquestion]

6. We never had a gun in the house,

because my daughter looked so scary when she sleepwalked - like one of those kids in the movies who stare and don't blink. :o


Just kidding! We didn't have guns cause we just never liked having them around, especially with kids.

Not kidding about my daughter's sleepwalking - she really looked like one of those kids. Creepy! :scared:

[proud2BlibKansan]

21. We don't have them in our house either

But I think it's fairly common for folks who live in rural areas. At least, the people I know who live in rural areas have guns.

[seabeyond]

8. what the F* do you think happens to kids............

when they live in a world of war and violence. when they see only violence and abuse of power on screens all day long and into the late night. a world where the adults are in such outrage and anger and hate. killing everywhere.

what is going to happen to these kids

what is going to happen to the kids in a failed economy, less money, more stress, hunger, fear,.......................

what is going to happen to the kids in repression of being. the total power and control of cops and society and religion to control of a being, to sexuality to spitting on the fuckin streets

we be creating this for them

i am telling ya

and as a responsible adult, with kids, and value of all man.............i own it

and this is just a tip of the iceburg

[Dervill Crow]

16. It's true, kids are born egocentric to survive.

They need to learn how to live in society, and society these days is reinforcing the worst of the human traits we are all born with.

[seabeyond]

26. worst of the human traits we are all born with.

comes with the best of human traits we are born with too

The Two Wolves

An old Cherokee is teaching his grandson about life. "A fight is going on inside me", he said to the boy. "It is a terrible fight and it is between two wolves. One is evil - he is anger, envy, sorrow, regret, greed, arrogance, self-pity, guilt, resentment, inferiority, lies, false pride, superiority, and ego.

The other is good - he is joy, peace, love, hope, serenity, humility, kindness, benevolence, empathy, generosity, truth, compassion and faith.
The same fight is going on inside you and inside every other person too".

The grandson thought about it for a minute and then asked his grandfather, "Which wolf will win?"
The old Cherokee simply replied, "The one you feed"



thru experience i have learned, i easily see lite wins over dark, literally and certainly spiritually. love always wins. whenever and always when done in love with children, we have all honored the best of who we are

and yes

it is what we are fed and talk, that we will create in our own lives, to live

[Dervill Crow]

38. Beautiful story and very true.

I would like to think it is because of my exemplary parenting skills that my kids have turned out so great, but it really comes down to each individual and how they internalize what happens to them that shapes them.

My kids are all more knowledgeable, if not wiser, than I was at their ages. I don't know if that's good or bad. It does scare me that innocence is lost so early and there's not much that parents can do (or maybe even should do) to prevent that.

[seabeyond]

27. has conversation with 7 yr old last nite, always demanding and angry

from birth. for real. lol lol. yet the power of his love, he so is an energy baby, feeds on it. so full of love last couple days, not only sucks it out, throw it at people.

we went thru a huggin lovin session. i love you he says, as always,......we laugh and say at same time, i/you love EVERYonE.

i say, you love even the bad, before i could finish, he says, no one is bad, before he could finish, i say, ya i know, no one is bad.............in all his bad.

[H2O Man]

9. "I believe implicitly

that the child is not born mischeivous in the bad sense of the term. If parents behave themselves while the child is growing, the child will instinctively obey the law of truth, and the law of love. ... From my experience with hundreds of children, I know they have a finer sense of honor than you and I have. ... Jesus never uttered a loftier or grander truth than when he said that wisdom cometh out of the mouth of babes. I believe it." -- Gandhi

[Goblinmonger]

10. Sounds like O'Reilly on the radio yesterday

He said that kids need constant supervision and control by adults. He cited Lord of the Flies as a great example of that being true. Funny, I always thought that book was an allegory about the evils that were present in government.

**on edit--I'm a gigantic turd and typed Rings when I meant Flies.

[Ilsa]

12. Help me out here...

O'Reilly said that about LOTR? How is LOTR a literary example of that?

(Thanks.)

[Goblinmonger]

14. I'm a turd

you can check my edit. I shouldn't type when thinking about other stuff.

[Ilsa]

20. LOL.

Gob, you are no turd! We have no turds on DU! :) Thanks for the clarification.

[Goblinmonger]

32. I meant turd in the sense of

Mr Hankey. Kinda cute, but still excrement. Not the vile kind of turds that are in the Republican party.

[proud2BlibKansan]

22. I never got that from LOTF either

but then I am not bill o'lielly. I like to think before I speak.

[Goblinmonger]

30. Billy Boy

Of course, in the same segment he said that he was a good teacher because the students "feared" him and so they worked harder. I know exactly the type of teacher he was; some like him are teaching down the hall from me. He needs to know that they didn't learn more from him, just thought he was an enormous ass--and they were right!!

[nonconformist]

31. A kid with a GUN is dangerous

To himself and to others, whether they intend to be or not.

This is so sad. I have a son in 4th grade myself, it's impossible for me to fathom.

I don't fear that boy. I weep for him... I weep for how easy it was for him to get his small hands on a loaded firearm, I weep for whatever it was that made him do this, I weep for his future, and I weep for the guilt he will feel when he is older and more completely understands the enormity of what he did.

I'd fear a TODDLER with a loaded handgun. This is about guns. It's also about what is causing such rage in young kids and the enviroment they're growing up in... but it's about guns. Let's not kid ourselves here.

[Goblinmonger]

35. I'm with you.

This kid did not just "decide" to kill his dad. Maybe there is a 0.001% chance that he is just a sociopath, but people would have seem that before (assuming he was in a school system). There is much more to the story than we know. Let's not jump and blame this on the kid.

[Protagoras]

37. Actually it's estimated that perhaps as high as

10-15% of the general population has some sort of personality disorder, with a 1-2% rate for Antisocial personality disorder aka sociopathy.

Then again...you can't receive a diagnosis of antisocial personality disorder as a child. :D

And correct...we don't know much about this story at all. We do, however, know that there are some kids who are terribly harmed or twisted for whatever reason (abuse, drugs, genetics?) and the question a lot of people have a hard time answering honestly is...

What would I really do if I were the single adult standing in a room while that kid pointed a gun at me...charged at me with a knife...were trying to bite me...was flinging poo at my head, etc.

It happens. Theorizing about ideal responses is great...but it sometimes falls short of reality.

Happy thoughts :D