I just heard that in British Columbia fathers get sole custody of kids

[HEyHEY]

In only ten per cent of custody cases. What is it like in your area?
Shouldn't this set off alarm bells?

One reason I bring this up is because my father has a sister he's never met. His Dad broke off his first marriage because his wife was an incurable ether addict. Regardless, courts gave her custody. The kid and mom dropped off the face of the earth.

And before you accuse my Grandpa of being a prick bear in mind he raised my Dad and his sister with his second wife, my Darling Grandma Isabelle.


He was sober, owned a business, and was a kind man... and the court gave his kid to an ether addict...

[Zuni]

1. probably similar here

fathers often get dicked over, even when the mother is the bad parent.

[AllegroRondo]

2. Here in Missouri its pretty bad for dads.

The only reason I was able to get custody was because my ex ended up in prison. And this was after my daughter was removed from the house twice for neglect.

[Midlodemocrat]

3. I think this might be a stupid question...but how does a person

get addicted to ether? Is it available over the country in Canada? Forgive my ignorance, but I have never heard of anyone being an 'ether addict'.

[asthmaticeog]

4. He's talking about his grandfather's first wife.

This is obviously many, many decades ago. Ether was once common and widely available.

[Midlodemocrat]

5. I know that, but here in the US, it wasn't available unless prescribed

by a doctor. That is what I am curious about.

[Zuni]

9. Man, if people can get nitrous tanks for parties, then they could get

ether back then

[Midlodemocrat]

11. Lol. True enough.

[HEyHEY]

12. No clue, who knows

[JDPriestly]

6. Depends

in California, the normal test is the best interest of the child.

How that is decided depends on
which parent has the best lawyer;
what judge they get;
what jurisdiction the divorce is decided in;
who really wants the child the most (you'd be surprised on this one);
what kind of support network the spouse has (does a drug addicted mother have a supportive mother who wants her daughter to keep the child?)
and lots of other factors.

I think it is safe to generalize and say that, usually, nowadays joint custody is most common.

[KissMyAsscroft]

8. That's not the case at all.

Judges mindlessly hand over custody to the mother because they are from a different era. Guys are forced to jump through endless hoops. It's a double standard and it's going to take another generation to fix.

[KissMyAsscroft]

7. Pretty sweet how that works out eh?

That's what Fathers For Justice is fighting in the UK.(The group that pelted Tony Blair with that purple stuff and stages all of those crazy stunts..)

It's a huge problem and the PC police won't allow you to discuss it. Fathers are getting dicked over by courts just mindlessly handing over custody to the mother.

I volunteer for a court ordered supervised visitation program and half of the people that aren't allowed custody are women. When I started the program I automatically assumed that it would be neglectful fathers, which really pointed out the need for a change in public image.

The way I see it is not politically correct and I will get reamed for saying this but here goes...

Women wanted equality. Fair enough. But now they want preferential treatment when it comes to child custody. Child custody being awarded to the woman was based in a time where women stayed home to raise children. Now women work full time. That makes the playing field level. Either parent has the same likelihood of being a neglectful parent.

Now if there is abuse or neglect, than obviously that parent shouldn't gain custody. I am talking about garden variety child custody disputes.

We are living in a gap, or a lag time if you will. Women were granted equal status to enter the workforce (they earned it.) but the court system hasn't caught up so they are getting the "best of both worlds" in my opinion. I think women have a pretty sweet deal in America right now, and I will get attacked mercilessly on this site with stats and figures of how they make less, but the fact remains that women get equal status as well as traditonal status AND victim status. They are allowed by society and the courts for some reason to play all three cards interchangeably. There are many organizations devoted to correcting this problem and they are growning in numbers. Expect this to be a public battle in the next 5-10 years.

Now watch as I get attacked by everyone on this site, for stating the obvious and being attacked by women on this site that say that they are not yet "free."

It's interesting that the same women that demand equality will take preferential treatment in their favor when it suits them. (ALL people would...men and women. That's what the courts are for. That's the problem that needs to be addressed but it takes a while for old school judges to be replaced by people from our generation who will truly treat men and women as equals.)

[Pithlet]

13. You're wrong about the cause

Things aren't balanced in favor of fathers. But it isn't because of the feminist movement. Look at the real cause. Women are and have been considered primary caregivers of children. Things are changing in that regard (because of the feminist movement!), but it's going to take some time for the courts to catch up. Many judges were raised in a time where women stayed home and had children. It wasn't uncommon for a father to have never even touched a diaper. My grandfather, father of 5 children, never once did.

So, don't go blaming the feminist movement. In my years of involvement, I've never once met one who thought women should get custody of children by default. If anyone things like that, it's the right wingers. Don't take this issue and use it as an excuse to attack the equal rights movement. A movement that would more than likely be your ally in this fight, than an enemy. Look at the real cause. Side with the progressives, not the conservatives.

[KissMyAsscroft]

14. Than where is the feminist outcry?

Where are the feminist weblogs trying to right this wrong?

I don't see any.

It's amazing to me that women will demonize men who won't stick up for their rights, yet women will not stick up for men's rights.

[Pithlet]

15. "Women don't stick up for men's rights"

Total, utter bullshit. The fact that men sometimes get shafted in family court is a product of the system that feminism is fighting against. What is so hard to understand about that? Just because women aren't couching the issue like would like it to be doesn't mean they aren't fighting for you. Just because they aren't paying you lip service, and calling it "men's rights", doesn't mean they aren't fighting for you. If you stand to gain from the fight that women are fighting, I don't know why you would want to sabotage that by insulting the women's movement. Makes no sense.

In short, the vast majority of us don't hate men. Most of us want justice and equality for all. You, and those like you, who attack us in that fight, claiming that we don't care about men, and that our fight only hurts you, are doing nothing but alienating your allies. Painting US as the enemy won't get rid of that old sexist bias that women are the caretakers of children. And you will continue to lose your children in court because of it.

[KissMyAsscroft]

16. You are obviously suffering from the "false consensus" effect.

I don't recall N.O.W. coming out and sticking up for men in family courts. I don't recall them trying to bring attention to this issue at all. Feminism is not about equality at all. It's about PAYBACK for a perceived injustice. It's about moving WOMEN forward. Which is why it is called FEMINISM.....(see, they even made it easy. They put the word feminine in there so it was really obvious.)

What you are is a person that wants everyone treated equally. That isn't the common definition of a feminist.

That's like me associating myself with a Fundamentalist church and than getting upset that people think I am intolerant.

Unfair? Probably. But that's the way it is.

Show me ONE feminist website that expresses any concern over the struggles that men face in American courts. Where is the outrage over the men that kill themselves because they can't see their children?

You won't. They will all be devoted to the "glass ceilings" and "patriarchy."

Once you seperate your camp into men vs. women, you forfeit the right to deny that it is a biased movement.

[Pithlet]

17. You completely missed my point.

It isn't the fault of women's groups that men lose custody of their kids So, why on earth would you attack them? Start with the judges who cling to old fashioned views. Your fundamental church analogy doesn't hold. Because many fundamental churches actually ARE intolerant. So, it would be entirely fair in that case to put the blame where it belongs. What you're doing to the feminist movement is the equivilent of someong blaming the fundies for the weather. Fundies don't control the weather. Feminist groups didn't plant the notion that women make better mommies. Get it? You're blaming the wrong people.

You are the one who is insisting that it is the women's rights groups fault that fathers lose custody of their kids. And your proof is that you've never seen anyone from NOW speak out about it? Please. You honestly think that the notion that women are naturally better caretakers of children is spread by NOW? I've spoken out about fathers unfairly losing custody. And I'm as feminist as they come. And I'm not alone!

The common definition for feminist is someone who wants equality between the sexes. Because you don't think that doesn't make it so. You seem to want to cling to the "definition" that the right wingers love. Go ahead and continue to cling to that notion. You are obviously so threatened by the femninist movement that you feel safe siding with conservatives. They want people to believe we are the enemy. Makes it easier to quash us. Then the judges in family courts can continue to give custody to women But, if the men's rights movement wants to side with the enemy and shoot themselves in the foot, then what can we do about it? We all tell you we're not the enemy till we're blue in the face, and then we get "patriarchy" thrown in our faces. Just like you just did to me. Someone who is on your side, for God's sake. Keep on telling me that feminists hate men and don't want to help them if it makes you feel better. But, it's still inaccurate.

Why don't you show me a prominent feminist who supporst that that women should automatically get custody of children? Show me where NOW supports that men should never get custody of their children?

You can get outraged by your perceived lack of caring by feminists when you stop looking at the feminist movement as anti man. Stop listening to the Falwells of the world. Start working against the real problem. The courts that are stuck in the 1950's.

[KissMyAsscroft]

18. You need to take a hard look at what Feminism is doing.

Feminists want equality? Than why call it FEMINISM? Why differentiate the sex? Why not call it "The Equality Movement?" Because it isn't about equality. It's about righting a "wrong" that doesn't exist. Males and females were always equal. Yes. I said it. Read it over and over. THEY WERE ALWAYS EQUAL.

Feminists need to differentiate between equality and "sameness" You can not make a cat a dog, no matter how hard you try. They have different strengths and different purposes in life. You cannot pass laws that will make them the same because that just limits everyone and causes conflict.

Did you not see the feminist blogs that were spewing venom about men in regards to the California Bill (forget the name. was the one regarding child custody.) that didn't get passed. (I will dig up info and post it if you would like.)

Feminists like to point out suffrage for instance, claiming women were oppressed and not given the right to vote. Was it wrong? Of course it was. But MALE non-land owners were not allowed to vote either. Is that fact even cited? No it isn't, because they are looking through a biased lens.

It's the differentiation between the sexes that causes your argument to collapse. What your movement causes is strife between the sexes.

Anytime a crime is committed by a man there are millions of feminists screaming "see! men are bad!!!" You can deny this all you want, but it lends to a culture of men=bad, women=caring and loving and good. There are web logs all over the internet dedicated to feminism. You should read them sometime. They spout garbage like this all the time.

Lawyers that IDENTIFY THEMSELVES as feminists will take on women's cases for free to get them custody. There are free services to women, and not to men in order to get custody of their kids. There is a built in bias in the court system against men. Are feminists personally handling the cases? No. Are they helping to create a culture that men are somehow not caring enough to raise kids? Yes.

Ever heard of Fathers For Justice? They are the UK group that pelted Tony Blair with that purple powder. This is what they are protesting. Every feminist blog on the web attacks this group.

Anytime you turn on the television, you see a shrieking WOMEN'S RIGHTS advocate (they call themselves this, don't blame me) advocating stringing some man up for some crime.

Maybe you are a tireless crusader for human rights. But I doubt it. Otherwise you wouldn't have aligned yourself with feminism. You would have aligned yourself with a human rights group. The fact that of all groups you chose to affiliate yourself with, you chose the one that identifies itself based on gender is pretty telling.

"Women's" groups are just causing problems for everyone. They are dividing up the sexes and turning them against each other, they are driving people away from the Democratic party, and they aren't accomplishing anything because the major glaring wrongs have been solved. (Voting, maternity, etc. REAL injustices...) yet they still perpetuate "glass ceiling" myths and other nonsense. Young males look at the Democratic Party and they see pissed off women who hate them. (I am in college right now, and the general consensus among young Republican males is that democrats are feminists and they hate men. I hear this ALL the time. These aren't religious kids. They are secular normal kids and feminism is what drives them away from the party.)

Is all of this your fault? No. Is it Tom Cruise's fault that Scientology is viewed as a joke? No. For him it might be a great thing, but it has a hell of an image problem.

When is it going to be enough for feminists? When are they going to be equal enough? What is left to fight against?

Gays and Lesbians, now they have a legitimate beef. Their rights are being dismissed. That is utter bullshit and I will fight that.

But women? Good God. Just drop it already. WE ARE ALL ON THE SAME SIDE!!!!

[seabeyond]

10. my brother fought 7 years, 200k later for his daughter

the first trial, the mother wasnt that good, the father great,......but the mother wasnt that bad. didnt beat or starve the kid. appellate court ruled case was a mess but not strong enough to over turn. brother then had to pay for his psych test, mothers and daughters, counseling for all for two years.....another couple attorneys, all the while the mother had free asst from state

he finally got daughter 7th year, due to a kidnapping and dropping child off in a troubled kids home for a weekend

yes the courts are unjust to fathers