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foreigncorrespondent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-13-05 11:39 PM
Original message
OMG! Creating a Christian flag for God and country
Note to mods: This article actually goes over two pages, hence why I posted a tad more than the four paragraph limit.

COLORA - Marcia Thompson Eldreth sees in the United States a Christian nation, inspired by Scripture and dedicated to propositions conveyed in biblical prophesy. She asks: Why not a U.S. national Christian flag?

"Our nation was based on Judeo-Christian principles," Eldreth said. "Blessed is the country whose God is Lord."

She was sitting in her Cecil County kitchen here the other day, sharing the story of how she came to design and arrange for manufacturing and selling a national Christian flag that since last year has gained national attention on The 700 Club, a religious news magazine television show hosted by, among others, the Rev. Pat Robertson. The taped segment is scheduled to appear on the program for a second time Tuesday, Flag Day.

<snip>

Nothing so generic would do in this case. Eldreth wanted a distinctly American flag. She consulted her Bible, and voices on high.

"I was having a conversation with the Lord, although I was here in my kitchen. I was saying, 'This is your flag, Lord, what do you want on it?'"

The answer, she said, came when she saw in her head a picture of "an eagle carrying a cross."

<snip>

Eldreth is untroubled by the notion of combining American and Christian symbols this way, as she quickly answers yes when asked whether the American purpose in the world is a specifically Christian project. Short of curbing freedom of religion, the U.S. government should not shy from declaring its service to scriptural ends, Eldreth said.

Much more: http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/local/bal-md.flag12jun12,1,938178.story?ctrack=2&cset=true

I have no words for this.
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Kerrytravelers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-13-05 11:42 PM
Response to Original message
1. Dear God,
Hello. I'm a fundy fruitcake with nothing better to do than hate gays and want to kill abortion doctors. I also like idoltry, so I'm thinking about making a new flag for my country (I always admired Betsy Ross for using a true woman's skill and sewing) with your name on it. How do you feel about being the leader of our country when your son, George, gets tired?

Pat and the gang will be in touch soon.

Love and kisses and adoration,
Marcia Thompson Eldreth
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foreigncorrespondent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-13-05 11:45 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. ROFLMAO!
Funniest bloody reply I Have read in ages. Thanks for the laugh. :)
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Kerrytravelers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-13-05 11:51 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. SOmetimes I need to laugh to keep from becoming an alcaholic.
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Zhade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-14-05 02:05 AM
Response to Reply #1
16. Here's her flag!



I made this a while back - never thought I'd have a reason to post it.

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foreigncorrespondent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-14-05 08:30 AM
Response to Reply #16
17. Now...
...that flag says it all. :)

Good job on it, by the way. :)
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Zhade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-14-05 07:11 PM
Response to Reply #17
24. Thanks!
Not my favorite piece, but it fits.

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bobbieinok Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-13-05 11:43 PM
Response to Original message
2. same people who complain about 'the Negro National Anthem'?????
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dbeach Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-13-05 11:44 PM
Response to Original message
3. Waving that Flag that they
NEVER served BUT are willing to let my kids die for..just like their ruthless leader

King George Bush the second = KGB II
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Pachamama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-13-05 11:46 PM
Response to Original message
5. Where's Swamp Rat? I'm sure he sees in his head an image of this extremist
Edited on Mon Jun-13-05 11:46 PM by Pachamama
nut case Eldreth.....

These people are certifiably whacked....they pray to a God that they think "Hates Fags" and they think their God talks to the idiot Sociopath occupying the White House....

God - Why do you hate us so to have created such whackos?
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NAO Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-13-05 11:46 PM
Response to Original message
6. A Rant on Religion, Culture and a plea for a Freethought Revival

Religious Superstition Threatens to Destroy Civilization (Again)


The Religious Right is really OUT OF CONTROL and is exerting a greater and greater influence on our society. They are flexing their muscles in the political process, the economy and our entire culture.

Let us remember that the first time Christianity spread rapidly and gained control of the government (from 200 - 500 AD) it resulted in the utter collapse of Western Civilization and ushered in 1,000 years of darkness, superstition, ignorance and suffering.

Finally, after a millennium of Darkness, mankind began to see the Dawn of The Age of Reason and The Enlightenment. Humanity recovered some dignity, science was freed from the chains of religious superstition and real progress began.

The Constitution of the United States of America was one of the crowning achievements of The Enlightenment, being a document for the Establishment of a government that did NOT MAKE ONE SINGLE REFERENCE TO "GOD". With the establishment of the United States, government as well as science was freed from the domination of religious superstition.

Now, every day in the news there is some story about how the religionists are exerting their influence. Radical Clerics like James Dobson and Jerry Falwell get air time on network news. Religionists are organizing and boycotting businesses that do not adhere to their version of personal morality.

The specter of religious superstition is once again casting a frightening shadow over our world. The ghosts and demons of the Dark Ages, once believed to be banished forever by Reason, are again haunting our culture. Christianity destroyed civilization once before - it could happen again.

Antidote to Fundamentalist Nut-Cases is a Revival of the Freethought Movement


I think what we need is a Freethought movement similar to what the US had around the turn of the 20th century. Robert Ingersoll was touring the country, lecturing on secularism and exposing the claims of revealed religion to be false. Unless something breaks the stranglehold of religious fundamentalism in the US - and in the world - I think we are going to continue the slide into Theocracy and destruction.

- Freethinkers could produce TV ads that exposed the claims of Christianity to be falsehoods.

- Freethinkers could form an 'anti-Gideons' and leave copies of Thomas Paine's "Age of Reason" and Robert Ingersoll's "Why I am Agnostic" in hotel rooms.

- Freethinkers produce tracts and pamphlets showing the contradictions in the Bible and exposing the rip-off of dozens of pagan beliefs and their incorporation into Christianity.

We could have a Second Enlightenment, a Second Age of Reason? We could re-secularize a world gone mad with religious superstition.

Robert Ingersoll's "Why I Am Agnostic"
http://www.infidels.org/library/historical/robert_ingersoll/why_i_am_agnostic.html

Thomas Paine's "The Age of Reason"
http://www.infidels.org/library/historical/thomas_paine/age_of_reason/index.shtml

*****

From "The Age of Reason" by Thomas Paine (1795)

EVERY national church or religion has established itself by pretending some special mission from God, communicated to certain individuals. The Jews have their Moses; the Christians their Jesus Christ, their apostles and saints; and the Turks their Mahomet; as if the way to God was not open to every man alike. Each of those churches shows certain books, which they call revelation, or the Word of God. The Jews say that their Word of God was given by God to Moses face to face; the Christians say, that their Word of God came by divine inspiration; and the Turks say, that their Word of God (the Koran) was brought by an angel from heaven. Each of those churches accuses the other of unbelief; and, for my own part, I disbelieve them all.

When I am told that the Koran was written in Heaven, and brought to Mahomet by an angel, the account comes to near the same kind of hearsay evidence and second hand authority as the former. I did not see the angel myself, and therefore I have a right not to believe it. When also I am told that a woman, called the Virgin Mary, said, or gave out, that she was with child without any cohabitation with a man, and that her betrothed husband, Joseph, said that an angel told him so, I have a right to believe them or not: such a circumstance required a much stronger evidence than their bare word for it: but we have not even this; for neither Joseph nor Mary wrote any such matter themselves. It is only reported by others that they said so. It is hearsay upon hearsay, and I do not chose to rest my belief upon such evidence.

It is, however, not difficult to account for the credit that was given to the story of Jesus Christ being the Son of God. He was born when the heathen mythology had still some fashion and repute in the world, and that mythology had prepared the people for the belief of such a story. Almost all the extraordinary men that lived under the heathen mythology were reputed to be the sons of some of their gods. It was not a new thing at that time to believe a man to have been celestially begotten; the intercourse of gods with women was then a matter of familiar opinion. Their Jupiter, according to their accounts, had cohabited with hundreds; the story therefore had nothing in it either new, wonderful, or obscene; it was conformable to the opinions that then prevailed among the people called Gentiles, or mythologists, and it was those people only that believed it. The Jews, who had kept strictly to the belief of one God, and no more, and who had always rejected the heathen mythology, never credited the story.

It is curious to observe how the theory of what is called the Christian Church, sprung out of the tail of the heathen mythology. A direct incorporation took place in the first instance, by making the reputed founder to be celestially begotten. The trinity of gods that then followed was no other than a reduction of the former plurality, which was about twenty or thirty thousand. The statue of Mary succeeded the statue of Diana of Ephesus. The deification of heroes changed into the canonization of saints. The Mythologists had gods for everything; the Christian Mythologists had saints for everything. The church became as crowded with the one, as the pantheon had been with the other; and Rome was the place of both. The Christian theory is little else than the idolatry of the ancient mythologists, accommodated to the purposes of power and revenue; and it yet remains to reason and philosophy to abolish the amphibious fraud.


Consider a Freethought PAC to Run Attack Ads Exposing Religious Superstition on TV


I think what we need to counter this type of crap is a Freethought PAC - One that would run aggressive attack ads on TV. "Freethinkers for Truth", or something along those lines, to debunk religious superstition using 30 second TV attack ads. They could feature "Great Moments in American Secularism and Freethought" with "Great American Freethinkers" like Thomas Paine and Robert Ingersoll.

If TV stations would not run the ads, we could pull the same, "help, help, I'm being repressed!" crap that the fundies are always whining about. And of course the refusal to run the ads would draw attention to the works of Paine and Ingersoll, which are in themselves a very effective antidote to religious superstition.

The Freethought Zone
Science and Reason Over Religion and Superstition

http://freethought.freeservers.com /

Freedom from Religion Foundation
http://www.ffrf.org /

Secular Humanism
http://www.secularhumanism.org /

Secular Web
http://www.infidels.org/index.shtml

Thomas Paine's The Age of Reason - Online
http://www.infidels.org/library/historical/thomas_paine/age_of_reason/index.shtml

Complete Works of Robert Ingersoll - Online
http://www.infidels.org/library/historical/robert_ingersoll/index.shtml

Dominionism's Theocratic Designs and Radical Clerics


Fundamentalist Radical Clerics such as Falwell, Dobson, and Robertson are not merely medieval throwbacks or misguided religious hacks. They are part of a well organized subversionary movement known as "Dominionism". Dominionism constitutes a serious threat to American Democracy. These Radical Clerics have developed and are executing a detailed plan to gradually replace the free, secular democratic society of the United States with a Theocracy.

It is critical that people become aware of the extreme agenda these people have for the United States and ultimately for the world. The results of the 2004 Presidential Election were not a fluke or something that was drummed up over a period of months. It has been in planning for over 20 years, and what we are seeing take place now is, in the words of Katherine Yurica, "the swift advance of a planned coup".

The Swift Advance of a Planned Coup: Conquering by Stealth and Deception - How the Dominionists Are Succeeding in Their Quest for National Control and World Power
http://www.yuricareport.com/Dominionism/TheSwiftAdvanceOfaPlannedCoup.htm

The Despoiling of America: How George W. Bush became the head of the new American Dominionist Church/State
http://www.yuricareport.com/Dominionism/TheDespoilingOfAmerica.htm

Video on the Christian Reconstructionist Dominionist Theocratic Agenda
http://www.theocracywatch.org/av/video_dominion.ram

The Rise of the Religious Right in the Republican Party
a public information project from TheocracyWatch.org

http://www.theocracywatch.org

The Religious Right - An Anti-American Terrorist Movement
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article8816.htm


Evolve Fish - Your One-Stop Shop for Freethought Materials
http://www.evolvefish.com

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jeff30997 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-14-05 12:06 AM
Response to Reply #6
9. Wow! Your post is longer to read than the bible.
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NAO Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-14-05 12:30 AM
Response to Reply #9
11. Yes, but my post is not full of atrocities, contradictions and absurdities
like the Bible.
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jeff30997 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-14-05 12:39 AM
Response to Reply #11
12. I couldn't agree more.
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WillyT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-13-05 11:52 PM
Response to Original message
8. Crap... This Is Worse Than The 'I Found It!' Bumper Stickers !!!
Remember those???

Then the some Jewish folks came out with the 'We Never Lost It!' bumper stickers.

Then some non-believers came out with the 'I Just Stepped In It!' bumper stickers.

Ah those days of innocence.

We just called 'em 'Jesus Freaks' back then.

How'd it come to THIS!!!

:nuke:
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Djinn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-14-05 01:31 AM
Response to Reply #8
14. where I live
they still get called jesus freaks - and that's the polite term

"I was having a conversation with the Lord, although I was here in my kitchen. I was saying, 'This is your flag, Lord, what do you want on it?'"

The answer, she said, came when she saw in her head a picture of "an eagle carrying a cross."


say that in public here and you may well find a psych crisis response team on your doorstep
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foreigncorrespondent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-14-05 08:31 AM
Response to Reply #14
18. ROFL
say that in public here and you may well find a psych crisis response team on your doorstep

That is very true, mate. :)
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jeff30997 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-14-05 12:07 AM
Response to Original message
10. Nuts.
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NMMNG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-14-05 01:19 AM
Response to Original message
13. When you talk to god it is called prayer
When he talks back it is called schizophrenia.

"I was having a conversation with the Lord"

I bet she was :crazy:






"Our nation was based on Judeo-Christian principles," Eldreth said.


Everybody say it with me: the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion (George Washington, Treaty of Tripoli)

When are these revisionist-fundies going to get it through their hard-a$$ed heads???
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elperromagico Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-14-05 08:51 AM
Response to Reply #13
20. If the Founding Fathers had been so dedicated
to creating a Christian nation, why didn't they state that explicitly in the Constitution?

George Washington was likely a Deist.

Ditto Benjamin Franklin.

Ditto James Madison.

Thomas Jefferson took a razor to the New Testament, removing all references to the divinity and miracles of Jesus, and produced the Jefferson Bible. Hardly an action that would leave the evangelicals jumping for joy.

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NightOwwl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-14-05 01:54 AM
Response to Original message
15. Why is it people who talk to God...
are taken seriously, but people who talk to the Devil are called insane?
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elperromagico Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-14-05 08:40 AM
Response to Original message
19. A flag is an idol, is it not?
"Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me. And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments."

So why would Christians need or want a flag?
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DemBones DemBones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-14-05 09:00 AM
Response to Original message
21. As I keep pointing out, there already IS a Christian flag.

Google "Christian flag" and see for yourself. It's been around a long time and you may well have seen it without knowing what you saw. Ever been somewhere where there was an American flag and other flags on flagpoles standing near the stage (or altar, in a church)? Do you know what the other flags were? Could well be one of them was "the Christian flag."
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dbeach Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-14-05 05:32 PM
Response to Original message
22. HAPPY FLAG DAY 6/14
bush has wrapped himself in it since 9/11
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ComerPerro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-14-05 05:34 PM
Response to Original message
23. I was hoping they would do this.
At least the Nazi party had the decency to introduce their own symbols and imagery.

Maybe this "christian" flag will become the new swastika.
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