Where does the bible promote Laissez-Faire Capitalism?

[Lucky Luciano]

I am actually more centrist than most on DU with regard to capitalism, but I do agree that its excesses do certainly need to be checked because we all know what happens when greedy people are left to their own devices.....but still....the bible thumpers seem to behave like Laissez-Faire is what Jesus would want, when in fact, I am quite sure the opposite is true.

Any DUers that could shed some light on this?

[Meeker Morgan]

1. Laissez-Faire Capitalism did not exist back then.

And the RR types don't really want it.

[Lucky Luciano]

2. I know it did not exist...

but many of the Christian Right behave as if it is written in the bible!

[izzie]

9. They keep saying something about free will.

I really am a capitalist but not the laissez-faire type at all. That type just does not fit in with anything JC was saying. But many of these new style Bible thumps has changed the no kill to no murder. You figure that out.OK to kill I guess and it is all double-speak. They set up the rules and we must fit into where they want us. :shrug:

[muriel_volestrangler]

3. Luke 16:1-9 is a puzzling bit

in which Jesus does seem to condone fraud.

The Parable of the Shrewd Manager

1Jesus told his disciples: "There was a rich man whose manager was accused of wasting his possessions. 2So he called him in and asked him, 'What is this I hear about you? Give an account of your management, because you cannot be manager any longer.'

3"The manager said to himself, 'What shall I do now? My master is taking away my job. I'm not strong enough to dig, and I'm ashamed to beg— 4I know what I'll do so that, when I lose my job here, people will welcome me into their houses.'

5"So he called in each one of his master's debtors. He asked the first, 'How much do you owe my master?'

6" 'Eight hundred gallons of olive oil,' he replied.
"The manager told him, 'Take your bill, sit down quickly, and make it four hundred.'

7"Then he asked the second, 'And how much do you owe?'
" 'A thousand bushels of wheat,' he replied.
"He told him, 'Take your bill and make it eight hundred.'

8"The master commended the dishonest manager because he had acted shrewdly. For the people of this world are more shrewd in dealing with their own kind than are the people of the light. 9I tell you, use worldly wealth to gain friends for yourselves, so that when it is gone, you will be welcomed into eternal dwellings.

[Dogmudgeon]

4. My take on this --

I think it was a parable telling early Christians not to be patsies. I can well imagine that the early followers of J.C. were Luftmenschen (translatable as "airheads") who idealized the world, and often got "taken". Whether this parable comes directly from Jesus, or from St. Luke, it was an object lesson to Christians who were a little too keen to imitate the lillies of the field ("They toil not, nor do they reap ...") and therefore were unnecessarily naive and irresponsible.

Of course, I could be wrong.

--p!

[LightningFlash]

6. So they skewed the Bible....

In order to support the fact they can fraud the elections, the nation, and the world.

Amazing! Increase the majority by pure manipulation and subversion :crazy: :crazy: :crazy:

http://www.cronus.com/electionfraud/

[Dogmudgeon]

5. Working and Eating

"Whoever does not work shall not eat."

I don't know where that quote is, but it's often used to justify Laissez-Faire.

The best exegesis probably is from Gary Allen. He is the son-in-law of R.J. Rushdoony, the founder of Reconstruction Christianity, which is also called "Dominionism". Allen published a newsletter called Christian Economics for some years. A Google search should turn up a bunch of PDFs for your enlightenment.

--p!

[hollowdweller]

10. That Quote is in one of Pauls letters

[Wright Patman]

15. I think you mean Gary North

He was most recently among those screaming the loudest about the 'Y2K' problem. Gary Allen died a long time ago. He authored a book called "None Dare Call It Conspiracy."

He still writes columns on libertarian sites such as lewrockwell.com
and is often as vehemently anti-* as most of us here.

This is not to say I agree with his or the late Rushdoony's theories on dominionism. He's basically a wacko, but he is a wacko who has problems with the BFEE, so that's some progress.

http://www.lewrockwell.com/north/north-arch.html

[Dogmudgeon]

16. Yep, you're right

It is Gary North.

I didn't know that Gary Allen was dead, though. He was a big mahoff at the John Birch Society.

--p!

[WillowTree]

7. The bible doesn't ...

....advocate one economic system over another, any more than it advocates one style of furniture over another. But I think you probably knew that.

[Jara sang]

8. It's in the back...

I can't find it right now... It's there though.:sarcasm:

[hollowdweller]

11. The early Christians were more communists

I don't have time to look it up but in ACTS it mentions that they all held their money and posessions in common. It mentions someone who sold some land, and then pretended to give all the amount to Peter but who lied and really kept part. After he lied he allegedly burst open.

Then in one of the synoptic gospels it says the disciples kept a big pot of money they gave to the poor.

[patcox2]

18. "from each according to his ability . . ." is from Acts.

Yup, the cetral tenet of communism, "from each according to his ability, to each according to his need" is paraphrased from the new testament.

[Montauk6]

12. I'm not so sure that these Dominionists truly embrace LFC

After all, what's more entrepreneurial than prostitution? Yet, these guys would do everything in their power to keep it illegal (wouldn't stop them from participating, mind you). Same with other commodities that challenge morality (interesting that they would allow free trade in guns though).

Incidentally, where is the precedent for strict, down-the-line, 100% LFC anywhere in history anyway? The US is disqualified, one would think, because throughout her history the government in some form or other participated, whether directly or peripherally, in commerce (in fact, one of Congress's powers from day one is to regulate commerce, which by LFC standards means constitutional sanction of socialism, does it not?).

[Selatius]

13. If anything, Jesus struck me a someone closer to socialism than capitalism

To be a capitalist means to own resources or control the means of production that others need to survive as well.

For the people to use my resources and my means of production for their own purposes requires that they compensate me for the privilege using what I own to help themselves. It gives me great advantage and control over everyone else, and lesser people are corrupted by this power.

[JHB]

14. Matthew 25:11-31, I think...

11 Afterward the other maidens came also, saying, 'Lord, lord, open to us.' 12 But he replied, 'Truly, I say to you, I do not know you.' 13 Watch therefore, for you know neither the day nor the hour. 14 "For it will be as when a man going on a journey called his servants and entrusted to them his property; 15 to one he gave five talents, to another two, to another one, to each according to his ability. Then he went away. 16 He who had received the five talents went at once and traded with them; and he made five talents more. 17 So also, he who had the two talents made two talents more. 18 But he who had received the one talent went and dug in the ground and hid his master's money. 19 Now after a long time the master of those servants came and settled accounts with them. 20 And he who had received the five talents came forward, bringing five talents more, saying, 'Master, you delivered to me five talents; here I have made five talents more.' 21 His master said to him, 'Well done, good and faithful servant; you have been faithful over a little, I will set you over much; enter into the joy of your master.' 22 And he also who had the two talents came forward, saying, 'Master, you delivered to me two talents; here I have made two talents more.' 23 His master said to him, 'Well done, good and faithful servant; you have been faithful over a little, I will set you over much; enter into the joy of your master.' 24 He also who had received the one talent came forward, saying, 'Master, I knew you to be a hard man, reaping where you did not sow, and gathering where you did not winnow; 25 so I was afraid, and I went and hid your talent in the ground. Here you have what is yours.' 26 But his master answered him, 'You wicked and slothful servant! You knew that I reap where I have not sowed, and gather where I have not winnowed? 27 Then you ought to have invested my money with the bankers, and at my coming I should have received what was my own with interest. 28 So take the talent from him, and give it to him who has the ten talents. 29 For to every one who has will more be given, and he will have abundance; but from him who has not, even what he has will be taken away. 30 And cast the worthless servant into the outer darkness; there men will weep and gnash their teeth.' 31 "When the Son of man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne.

But they take it literally, not as a parable for generosity and faith, and somehow manage to disconnect it from the next part:

32 Before him will be gathered all the nations, and he will separate them one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats, 33 and he will place the sheep at his right hand, but the goats at the left. 34 Then the King will say to those at his right hand, 'Come, O blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world; 35 for I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, 36 I was naked and you clothed me, I was sick and you visited me, I was in prison and you came to me.' 37 Then the righteous will answer him, 'Lord, when did we see thee hungry and feed thee, or thirsty and give thee drink? 38 And when did we see thee a stranger and welcome thee, or naked and clothe thee? 39 And when did we see thee sick or in prison and visit thee?' 40 And the King will answer them, 'Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brethren, you did it to me.' 41 Then he will say to those at his left hand, 'Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels; 42 for I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not welcome me, naked and you did not clothe me, sick and in prison and you did not visit me.' 44 Then they also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see thee hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to thee?' 45 Then he will answer them, 'Truly, I say to you, as you did it not to one of the least of these, you did it not to me.' 46 And they will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."

[patcox2]

17. In Acts it is said "they held everything in common," no private property.

The communist expression "from each according to their ability, to each according to their need" is a paraphrase from the Acts of the Apostles (the second book of Luke).

Early on in the Acts of the Apostles it explains the lifestyle of the early christians; when one joined, one had to sell everything one owned, the proceeds were then pooled and all held in common, "each contributed according to their ability."

One of the prominent miracles attributed to Saint Peter, and the only instance of the death penalty being inflicted by a christian leader that I can recall from the New Testament, involved a couple who joined the sect, sold their house and possessions, but held back a portion for themselves. Peter invoked the the Holy Spirit, which struck them dead on the spot, for the sin of not sharing.

So much for capitalism and the new testament.

[Deja Q]

19. The Bible condemns greed far more than it does homosexuality.

But it doesn't matter. Those in power will pick and choose which verses are the "only" verses.