Last night I tried to do a good deed. Just a simple nicety. I was on my

[NoSheep]

way to check out at the grocery store. A woman and I approached the check out ALMOST about the same time-if I'd gone in at a normal pace I'd have beaten her for first in line. But I don't "race" in the grocery store, y'know? I'd rather let some jackass in front of me than be reduced to that social darwinist shit. Besides, I was turning left and she was turning right and I thought I should give her the right-of-way. She had about the same amount of items as me-7 or so. No big deal. I said: "You go ahead." "Well, Thank You!" she said and she "went right ahead".(like they do) So I start checking her out and she's carrying a pocketbook she probably paid 3 thousand bucks for. Really nice shoes, she was tan, trophy wife type (sorry, trophy wives) and had the "hairdo" that sugests weekly visits to the salon for the "works". I'm thinking: 'fuckin' republican'. SO I couldn't help myself (I'd had a coupla Bass Ales) As she was leaving she said "Thanks for letting me in front of you" and I said "You're welcome...I hope you voted for a democrat" and she said "OH-NEVER!!!" then I said "I guess your tax cut is too important for you to think about all those folks dying in Iraq?" The cashier and the people behind me BUSTED out laughing. The lady practically ran to the door to get out. SHAME 'EM I say!!! SHAME 'EM in PUBLIC! :mad:

[indy_azcat]

1. Ha! That's awesome.

:toast:

Thanks for being an Army of One!

[NoSheep]

7. Power To The People!!!!!!

:rofl: :patriot:

[Radio_Lady]

170. This thread has a life of its own. NoSheep, you're excused already!!!

I think you did the right thing, but I might not have done it in the same way. I don't know why people are all burned up about this.

Different strokes for different folks.

[tanyev]

2. BWAHAHAHA!

:yourock:

[babylonsister]

3. As they say, "I'm

loving it!" I wish I had your nerve! :applause:

[movie_girl99]

4. i almost spit my coffee out when i read this

thanks for the chuckle, i needed it today. Way to go!!!!

[shadowknows69]

143. The daily show was wrong my friend

it is you that has HUGE balls. right on. :hippie:

[Warpy]

5. Sometimes that works

but more often it just makes that type that you described so nicely cling to her position even harder. I mean, how TACKY to bring up politics in a checkout line! How terribly UNMANNERLY! No wonder her people loathe the working class.

Don't worry, though, the cognitive dissonance is getting to them, and you'll be a hero to all the folks in that market who work to keep it running.

[Name removed]

6. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[TalkingDog]

8. I'm with you. Sounds like he gave up Social Darwinism...

for class bigotry and condescension.

[MsAnthropy]

10. Right, if we start behaving like the other side, "they've won"

I'd like to think we're better than that.

[FreedomAngel82]

60. And you think

they haven't already won? Uh did you forget the patriot act and real id act?

[NoSheep]

66. Help me here...where am I ? Am I on DU?

[Cha]

167. DUer here!

You're amazing! I like Guts..and this IS War!

[Tsiyu]

104. Behaving like their side? Like Zombies you mean?

Walking around without a care in the world? "War? What war?"

Sorry, their side is more concerned with MJ and the runaway bride and how to get more and give less.

Our side confronts issues that matter. That's what we do and who we are.

And it's long past time for a lot more of us to grow some spines.

[Name removed]

Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Carni]

179. OMG Get a room already--

The guy (or woman) that posted this thread was very tolerant...

I would have clubbed her with my purse when she tried to cut in front of me and said get the F out of the way idiot.

[Dorian Gray]

17. Agree

MsAnthropy. I don't get this kind of behavior, but that's just me. If someone confronted me like that, I'd roll my eyes and not respond in the first place. Of course, in my hood there aren't too many Republicans around.

[ArkDem]

9. I'll bet you have a lot of friends!

[Tsiyu]

102. Not everyone lives on AllRed Road

Many of us live with good Democrats surrounding us. We can ignore the Repukes if we like.

Sorry if you have to socialize with those sorts or have no friends. That would TOTALLY suck.....x(

[livinginphotographs]

215. For once, we agree.

He acted like an ass.

:eyes:

[graywarrior]

11. I did sort of the same thing at my college

Everyday, a yellow Toyota with my schools sticker and a Bush sticker would cut in front of me at the light. She'd always get to the parking lot ahead of me.

One day, we pulled in next to eachother and when we got out of our cars I said, "Morning, nice car."
She said, "Thanks"
I said, "Just so you'll know, Toyota donates mostly to democrats. Hey, have a great day."
She sputtered something...I may have been rude, but sometimes you just have to say something.

[FizzFuzz]

13. Good for you! When people are flaunting it, like the OP story and yours,

I have no need for "politeness".

Politeness is what keeps us silent, so many times. (And I'm not against all politeness, for the record. But when the truth is being suppressed, the powermongers really appreciate the power of manners to keep people quiet.)

And, I WISH I could come up with these perfect lines, like you and the OP did.

:applause:

[Cha]

168. Oh yeah, that was real "rude"..

NOT!

You were merely informing a no nothing bushlover who makes her car.

And I learned something, too :patriot:

[LeftHander]

12. Rude? Maybe not...

What it shows is that the undercurrent of anger in America is beginning to grow. That anger and frustration is starting to manifest itself as behavior that is striking out at the symbols of our decadant, selfish society.

The "trophy" wife described above represents a very visible symbol of "McMansion" TV-Culture that many are seeing as the reason a ass-clown like Bush was elected.

I say go with your gut. Nice playtime is over. People are dying because of the needs of shallow empty shells that pose as human beings.

Dehumanizing? Demonizing...?

Why not turn the tables on these fucking puke sacks and try to shock some humanity back into them....tell them to stop watching TV and get a REAL life. I say start framing the debate by exposing the immorality of selfishness, greed and comsumption.

Ridicule them for stinking up the checkout line with foul smelling cologne, make up and hair spray. Tell them to take the cell phone outside and that you don't want to hear about hyper parenting, American Idle crap.

He may not have her as a friend...she could care less if he was kind to her. But she sure as hell will remember when someone calls her on being a black hearted Republican.


End rant...

[FizzFuzz]

14. and a very good rant it was.

:thumbsup:

[merbex]

15. I'm with you; this story about what happened sounds like the

pendulum is finally swinging

It seemed stuck there for awhile

[omega minimo]

16. Your left/right brain verbal talents make a case for snark attacks

quite poignantly........................................

There are ways and there are ways. We can make our points without attacking people in public, which ends up looking an awful lot like the aggressive obnoxiousness of the Dittoheads.

What do we know about these people? They are drugged with luxury and deluded with denial.

And what if her brother/sister/mother/cousin/uncle was killed or maimed in BushWar I or II?

Maybe dad was in Korea or Viet Nam; maybe she's a recovering army brat and THIS CLOSE TO FREAKING OUT AS IT IS.

We can reinforce the cliches of US against THEM. The McMansionites seem so un-Earthly and out-of-touch, we could also work toward another form of contact that will get them to SNAP OUT OF IT.

Maybe if we treat them like human beings, they'll start acting as if they ARE.

:evilgrin:

note: she was human enough to THANK YOU. Next time she'll probably think, "Fuxx this sucker-- probably a Democrat."

[knitter4democracy]

114. I agree.

When she said "Thank you," I might've responded, "And I'm a liberal--see, we aren't all evil," and left it at that. I prefer to try to reach out to people and undo the massive messages out there dehumanizing us.

I can totally understand why he did it, though. Some days, I'm just so angry! It makes me want to call all the Republicans I know and rant and rave, but that would just convince them that I'm really crazy.

[uppityperson]

124. 'Maybe if we treat them like human beings..."

They'll start acting human if we treat them like human beings? I think the problem is they have gotten too much slack, been treated too open mindedly and too much like they are humane beings and they have run roughshod over us. Time to start being blunt.

[LeftHander]

133. Treat them like the spoiled brats they are...

Chiding people for being self absorbed TV culture clones to me is an act of kindness.

mouths hang open and they stare....blinking with big stupid wet eyes.

Simply stating to the Low Price-McMansionites that television at one time reflected culture....but now projects a culture onto the masses is enough to make them stop and think....

It sticks. they slowly think that maybe their whole life is a fraud.

The pursuit of luxury and status...based on television commericals.

Myself, when I first realized it I almost vomited.

I can't bear to watch television anymore it makes me physically ill.

[omega minimo]

218. ...I’ll bet you find creative and/or humorous ways to do it

and with your dual-hemisphere-synch you got my “there are ways and there are ways.”

You nailed it in your first post:
“What it shows is that the undercurrent of anger in America is beginning to grow. That anger and frustration is starting to manifest itself as behavior that is striking out at the symbols of our decadant, selfish society.”

...and starting to manifest itself here, in the argument over “rude” or not. It's not etiher/or.

I am all for inducing awareness but know that you can’t impose enlightenment. I will deal with strangers-who-need-a-reality-check in public and find a way to do it that is more subtle than “rude.” Non-verbal cues, visual proselytizing, passive/aggressive monkeywrenching....baldfaced pranks on the clueless. I did it last Sunday in the news shop.

It sounds like you are creative with this and somehow able to “chide” people and “Simply stating to the Low Price-McMansionites that television at one time reflected culture....but now projects a culture onto the masses is enough to make them stop and think....” How do you find the opportunity? Do you know these people or how do you get them to listen to you? Probably not by getting up in their face and hating them.

DUers could look at ALL the different ways we can achieve the goal here, which really was communication, as “blunt” as it was. (A prankster might have shown an unseemly interest in what a fanTASTic handbag that was and was it vintage and did you find it at the THRIFT store?) :sarcasm:

There are so many wrapped-in-plastic types running around now (and infesting my rabidly gentrifying neighborhood) that appear unreachable but may be human-- its up to them. There's such an oppressive atmosphere of mass delusion in the country now, why not consider behavior as much as appearance? What's really scary is the prevalence of the zombified TV stare of strangers in public. PRETTY VACANT. The woman in this story had the courtesy and humanity and REALITY to thank the person who let her go ahead.

People are so paranoid and disengaged that it is easy to break thru the insane pretense that we are all invisible in public. A light touch can work as well-- sometimes more effectively-- than a heavy hand. :evilgrin:

[Carni]

180. Excuse ME but WHO IS IN CHARGE?

Would that be THE DITTO HEADS?

Uh..YEAH!

HELLO? POLITE DOESN'T WORK ARE YOU GETTING IT YET?

All that *polite* has brought us is bush for eight years.

[Norquist Nemesis]

19. Well said!

IMO, there comes a point where backing down to the bullies only proves you're a whimp. We passed that point long, long ago.

Now it's time to (metaphorically speaking) punch the bullies in the nose.

[evolved Anarchopunk]

98. My kind of thinker.. my kind of feeler..

.. what else is there? Rant on LeftHander...

:evilgrin::smoke::applause::smoke::evilgrin:

[lonestarnot]

18. ABSofuckinglutely! Shame 'em I say too! And good for you!

[NoSheep]

20. A general note to those who see this as rude:

I don't begrudge anyone their wealth as long as they get it honestly. I was taking a chance guessing that she didn't get hers honestly and it turns out I was right. I feel republicans are at base, immoral and selfish creatures. I think it's time we started telling them that. The same way we send messages to society about any social taboo. I think it should be taboo to have the gall to support a government that not only doesn't give a rats-ass for the little guy, but is now ruining an otherwise fairly decent country and killing people to keep money where they want it. I appreciate the idea that we have to represent ourselves well in order to get respect. But I don't really need her respect. I wanted to make her think about what a selfish bastard she is.

[TXlib]

32. I don't follow

I don't begrudge anyone their wealth as long as they get it honestly. I was taking a chance guessing that she didn't get hers honestly and it turns out I was right.

I didn't see anything in your story that explained that she got rich off making fur coats out of puppies.

How do you know how she made her money?

[NoSheep]

57. She voted for a war criminal, didn't she?Or are you on the wrong board?

:shrug:

[Selatius]

59. You judged a book by its cover.

If she looked like a working class person, would you have zeroed in on politics with her?

There's a way to get people to realize things without attacking them about it. Sure, go ahead and try to engage her, but ridicule, especially in front of others, isn't the way.

[NoSheep]

67. And I was right about the book, wasn't I? That's the point.

Wherever you encounter the bastards, take them out. Maybe you've got the rest of your life to sit around watching people die over this crap, but I'm gonna stand up and yell. Stick your head in the sand. Go right on and do it.

[Selatius]

129. That's the same kind of logic Maher used to justify war

Well, sure, the initial act of war was unjustified, but it is folks like Bill Maher who would argue that if the outcome of the war is good, then it's okay. Well, it's not okay in that situation, and I don't think it's okay here.

No, my head isn't in the sand. I just disagree with you over how to do things.

[NoSheep]

75. Wouldn't have needed to.

[Blue Belle]

111. I agree... It was a book cover judgement.

Regardless of whether the assessment is correct... that's a lot of assuming to be made from her choice of handbags and footwear.

I had an interesting discussion with my boyfriend's Republican father the other day based on the same type of behavior. He made similar assumptions of a woman in the check out line in front of him - only she was over weight, had some chubby screaming children with her, had a cart full of groceries (all fattening - nothing healthy) and she paid for them with food stamps. I then had to listen to him go on a tirade about welfare and how these women sit around and live off the system and not make a honest days living.

My question to him was, "how do you know how she lives? You're just making an assumption based on by how she presents herself at the grocery store... but do you honestly know anything about her? Do you know if she's trying to get a job? Do you know if those kids are even hers? Do you have any idea how she lives her life?". And then he had to admit that he really didn't.

I can just imagine how people would assail my life if they were to make assumptions on my purchases and by how I wear my hair... half the time, I'm running in wearing sweats and buying a bottle of wine, or some other ingreadient that I forgot but desperately need for whatever I'm making (like cumin, or paprika). No one knows why I'm buying these things, or asks - I just assume they have better shit to do than worry about how I live my life, or how I vote. If people are going to assess my character based on the products I buy or what I happen to be wearing at the grocery store, I'm going to start doing my shopping on-line. This is ridiculous.

[uppityperson]

125. What if this woman had said "yes, I vote democrat" or green?

Then she could've had a good talk about politics rather than having the woman running away in embarassement at being called on her support of Mr.bush. We all make assumptions based on various things. Everyone of us does, all the time. What you need to do is realize this and try to work with it.

[Blue Belle]

127. I'm confused at your post...

"What you need to do is realize this and try to work with it."

What do I need to realize... that you can't judge a book from it's cover? I think I supported that in my post.

Or am I to realize that the perfect place to size someone up about their politics is in the grocery line after I allowed her to cut in front? And the perfect time is to ask if they voted Democrat is after she thanks me just as she is leaving? Then by all means, call me crazy for opting to not act like an insulting asshole.

[uppityperson]

131. We agree and differ

We all prejudge people. When we look at someone we notice their sex, color, hair, clothing, stance, behavior, etc and judge them. Talking with someone based on a prejudgement is ok. It is a way of finding out who they really are, double checking your assumptions, calling yourself on your assumptions. I am agreeing that you cannot judge a book by its cover, but we all notice the cover and the cover affects us. What if this woman had said yes, she voted democrat, and the OP was faced with her prejudices being srong than being correct?

I do not see how asking someone how they voted, and telling them the consequences is acting like an insulting asshole. Accusing me of calling you crazy for holding a different opinion is more insulting.

[Blue Belle]

135. There's nothing wrong with asking how people voted...

It is wrong, when they are being set up for humiliation. You may have handled the situation differently... but if I am to read the original post correctly, this person was appalled by this woman's being before she could defend herself. He wasn't looking to be proven wrong, he wanted to be right and to make a fool out of her. That is where I find the fault.

I'm not accusing you of anything... other than wanting your opinion to be the right one.

[Protagoras]

139. Dress well, be insulted by random people at the store

Yeah I'm having a hard time swallowing this. How about, browse the high end section of the wine isle get yelled about...

The idea that an incredibly minor gesture somehow then allows a very rude and intrusive exchange befuddles me. I suspect if there was a crowd witnessing this we'd have lost a lot more support than we'd have gained. But I'm sure that the deep sense of satisfaction that some get from insulting some random lady is well worth the loss or lack of credibility that is estabilished as a consequence.

[Blue Belle]

144. "How about, browse the high end section of the wine isle "

yeah... I know. Purchasing wine that isn't pink, doesn't come in a box and costs more than $15... sure sign of an "Elitist Liberal".

Sheeze. At what point did we start stooping to pigeon-holing people?? :eyes:

[TXlib]

151. heh heh

<sarcasm>

I don't care how many grapes had to die, just get me my wine!

</sarcasm>

[Blue Belle]

154. We need a "Wine Toast" Smiley!

So instead I'll use beer. Here's a nice IPA to ya!

:toast:

[TXlib]

156. Lagunitas IPA?

I'm a homebrewer, which means I'm a dedicated beer snob.

[Blue Belle]

157. Beer Snob??

I'm from Portland... that's all we do here. My IPA of choice is Bridgeport (if you can find it in Texas, you should try it), but I'd be up for tasting any brand. :-)

My ex-roommate was a home brewer. I learned A LOT about Beer that year. :-)

[kath]

188. Umm, the OP said she had a purse that cost about $3K, so she's mega-rich.

And let's face it, a very large percentage of the mega-rich *selfishly* vote Repuke. ("hey, gimme my tax cut. Fuck the poor! Let them die and reduce the surplus population.") It's always been that way - I learned at my dear old Grandma's knee that the Repubs. are the party of rich people.

So, the orig. poster was playing the odds -- someone carrying a $3K handbag, wearing very expensive shoes, etc. is quite likely to be a Repuke.

It's not just "dress well, be insulted"...

like the orig poster, I'm not feeling particularly charitable towards Repugs. these days. They've given us so, so, so much death and destruction.

[Rabrrrrrr]

235. Yes, but a judgment NoSheep didn't act on until it was confirmed

by her admitting that she votes republican.

There's a big difference between a "book cover judgment", which never bothers to find the facts (like your father-in-boyfriend-law (I dont' know what the hell they're called?)), and a gut instinct that is proven true.

[Blue Belle]

244. So by this lady admitting she didn't vote democrat...

(so we can only assume she's a Republican) that was the green light to attack. Seems logical... I think Bush used the same logic to attack Iraq.

[Rabrrrrrr]

246. No, Shrubby logic would be more like the woman said she voted

republican, so NoSheep attacked the customer in the aisle next door. Or even more accurately, attacked the produce guy.

:7

[NoSheep]

249. You clever devil!

:+

[Blue Belle]

251. Nice!

I stand corrected! :+

[lonestarnot]

Well so what if they think it was rude! Things are going to get much more

than "rude".

[uppityperson]

85. Exactly. Being thought "rude" is not the end of the world

We are taught so well to not be "rude" that we let people run roughshod over us all. Sometimes bluntness is called for. Good response.

Edited for spelling error.

[TXlib]

21. Just out of curiosity...

Do you do or say much that doesn't have political undertones?

I live in a predominantly red area. If I made everything about politics, I'd have no friends at all.

I couldn't give a fig if my homebrewing buddies voted D or R... If they brew good beer, I have something else to talk about.

How would you have felt if she let you go first, and then after sizing you up, and pre-judging you, said, "Get a haircut, hippie, and lay off the bong!"

[NoSheep]

22. I have lots of friends and many NEVER discuss politics. I think they are

all very liberal though. I don't hang out with folks who can ignore the realities of what it means to be republican. My friends, they may not all be very political, but they know when they vote for a Democrat, they're doing a better thing by the rest of the world than by voting for a republican (in most cases) If she'd told me to cut my hair and lay off the bong (neither of which would apply in my case) I would tell her to mind her own goddamn business. As long as my tax dollars are paying for an illegal war that her party supports, her vote WILL ALWAYS be my business. I truly used to not give a flying fuck who anybody voted for, but that was when I was 16. As a 42 yr old, I've learned the difference.

[in_cog_ni_to]

23. EVERYTHING with me is about politics. If they vote repuke,

that is not anyone I would EVER want as a friend. They're disgusting human beings. They hate anyone who isn't white, Christian, heterosexual, rich, and they are the most SELFISH, hateful, GREEDY group of people I've ever seen. AND they are ANTI-CHOICE! WHY the hell would I want to be friends with someone who stands for everything I hate? That just doesn't make sense. I have NO repuke friends and never will. I can't stand the very ground they walk on and they are all a waste of oxygen. :grr:

[TXlib]

29. Do you enjoy anything in life?

You really need to let go of the anger.

[in_cog_ni_to]

40. The only anger I have is aimed at repukes and they deserve every bit of it

Thank you very much. I have a VERY joyful life. Know why? I DON'T HANG AROUND REPUKE ASSHOLES! That's why.

[TXlib]

44. I enjoy my life, too. You know why?

Because I don't spend time obsessing over whether my buddies in the astronomy club, homebrew club, or carnivorous plant club are dems or repubs. My neighbors have some fantastic block parties. They may mostly be repubs, but they do a mean barbecue.

[in_cog_ni_to]

45. I don't care how good their barbecue may be,

They can keep it. I would not be able to stand on the same ground if they were repukes. I certainly wouldn't trust them not to poison the food! ;) Those people you barbecue with want to take away your Social Security, take away your overtime pay, take away your unemplyment benefits, take away the 40 work week (slave labor) they have made your grandmother pay MORE for her meds to where she has to choose between food and medicine, they care NOT if you have a job or health care or food or a home. They would be pleased as punch to see your ass living on the street just so they have their stupid tax cut that they are TOO STUPID to know they paid back a LOOOONG time ago because they now pay higher gas prices, higher utilities, higher grocery bills and higher insurance costs.

I don't "obsess" over political parties. If they are repuke, they get no more of my time or attention. Period. End of subject.

[TXlib]

46. hmmm

I don't "obsess" over political parties. If they are repuke, they get no more of my time or attention. Period. End of subject.

Apparently so, because all you have are stereotypes, it seems to me.

I have many republican friends who are just a little right of center, whereas i am a little left of center. They may be one-issue voters, just like many dems are. They certainly don't agree with everything the republican party stands for.

Do you agree with EVERYTHING your candidate does?

[in_cog_ni_to]

51. I'm RADICAL Left and proud of it.

We got in this situation because of the "moderate, just left of center" crowd. Stereotype? A repuke is a repuke! LOOK AT WHAT THEY VOTED FOR! These people are ruining our country, in case you haven't noticed. If you want to call it stereotyping, go right ahead. I call it looking at people for what they are....vile, greedy and hateful and not making them a part of my life.

I DID agree with everything my candidate stood for. That was Wes Clark.

And why in the hell are you defending repukes? They ARE the enemy, you know. Are you sure you're in the right party?

[NoSheep]

68. What undeclared said.

hmph.

[NoSheep]

61. A poster after my heart!

No, really, I've just been ruined by a repuke boss who's a sociopath. It's a long story, but I have NO sympathy, and I didn't have any before. It's just too close to home for all of us now. No Mercy Dammit.:woohoo:

[malmapus]

113. Hell yeah

My life was practically ruined because of Republicans, and I'm still in recovery financially. Being out of work for just under 2 years off and on out of the first 4 that Chimp was in office, and having to hear bullshit from the TV and freakin repugs on the street that the economy is getting better???

The fact that they so blindly followed in line behind this fuck that got us into this war thats sending good soldiers home in flag draped coffins. I'm still waiting for the day that a name I know comes up.

I haven't even spoken to my family members who voted for * in 2004, and barely tolerate my fiancee's (her sister was staying with us the other night, I think I spoke maybe 3 words to her, and refused to see her other sister and her family when they drove out here from TN).

Anyone who proudly calls themselves a Republican and proudly stands behind Bush / Cheney can all go fuck themselves for all I care. Personally I'd rather see them in Iraq.

[Carni]

182. My repuke relatives won't speak to ME

I was very tolerant about three years ago of repukes...

I did the whole "wink wink" about Clinton and his BJ and all of that to appease them.

I tried to march right along with their drummer at family gatherings because I didn't want to get written off or look like <gasp> a Democrat.

Guess what? When the facade came down prior to the last election because I said I was voting for anybody but Bush I got shit canned.

I am supposed to fell "compassion" for bush devotees?

I think not- you will not sway them and they count on the "minority" to stay silent and polite while they bend us over.

[NoSheep]

55. I don't spend my time obsessing either, but you're being

fairly obsessive right now about your vitriolic response to my vitriolic response. (just sayin'):hi:

[FreedomAngel82]

64. I have

family members and friends who are republicans. All in all they're pretty good people but they just are misguided with their politics. They think about one issue like abortion or gay rights and not the whole picture. They don't get how abortion is tied with the economy. Why would you vote for someone who is irresponsible with money? According to planned parenthood the number two reason is for money issues. I can enjoy being around rpeublicans as long as we don't talk politics because I'm a very passionate person when it comes to it. In my family we made a mutal agreement not to talk about politics and/or religion because we all are different. As far as I know I'm the only democrat (but I wasn't the only one who voted for Kerry thank goodness).

[TXlib]

89. Perhaps you should look up "vitriolic"

I don't think ANY of my responses in this thread could be called vitriolic. Not by a long shot.

[NoSheep]

99. Vitriolic means something of a caustic quality. Virulence of feeling

or speech. Virulence is signified by mean spirit. (I'm a word person) However, I wouldn't count on the efficacy of my grammar. ;)

[Name removed]

77. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[NoSheep]

81. Well folks, there you have it. Any Questions?

:kick:

[TXlib]

90. I discuss politics plenty with my republican friends

It's not like I avoid the issue altogether.

I find, however, that if you have a base of friendship to begin with, political discussions are easier to manage -- and you're more likely to have a point stick.

You're not going to convince anybody they're wrong by screaming in their face. But when you're friends, and relaxing over beer and BBQ -- there's a chance.

Three families, BTW, on my street have family in Iraq right now. They all voted R, and they all know full well what dangers their loved ones face. I can tell you that tax cuts had nothing to do with their vote -- they voted single-issue on national security, and they felt this was the best proposed plan to go about it. I disagree with them, but I'll knock anybody off his pedestal who suggests these individuals voted for selfish reasons.

I believe i have more in common with my republican neighbors than i do with the top politicians of either party. Plutocrats, and pork-barrel spenders, all of them, too entrenched in preserving the status quo. What politicians MOSTLY do, and what they campaign to do, are two totally different things.

[Tsiyu]

100. AS long as things are "easier" for you

That's what matters, right? EASY!

Okie Dokie......................:popcorn:

[woo me with science]

119. that was an unimpressive reply

to a very thoughtful post.

[LuPeRcALiO]

122. brevity is the soul of wit.

Basically, the "thoughtful" post is defending American exceptionalism on a local level -- the idea that as long as I can put gas in my SUV, I don't care how many people died getting it to me.

That's what is unimpressive.

[TXlib]

138. If you're referring to my post

I don't see HOW you could have interpreted it that way, if you in fact actually read it.

[LuPeRcALiO]

174. Not in my subject line, no.

But yes I read your post. And no, living among Bush-voting neighbors doesn't let anyone off the hook. Complacently eating their barbecue and refusing to challenge their political delusions simply helps keep their children in Iraq.

That's just the way it is right now. It's nothing personal.

[uppityperson]

176. Agreement here.

Challenge those who believe war is peace, the "patriotic act" is at all patriotic, and accepted the tax cuts as their due.

[Name removed]

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[LuPeRcALiO]

243. Where you say "everything I do is for my own benefit"?

I've read them.

[Name removed]

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[Carni]

184. Amen Buddy Holly

I feel the same way.

*Effecting change* might have sounded nice in the 90's when Clinton was more right of center than some liberals wanted on a particular issue but today there is no such thing.

I am not going to tip toe around morons because I might offend them.

They are not interested in the preservation of Democracy they are interested in lining thier pockets.

I am DONE with the polite silence.

[Violet_Crumble]

197. Tip-toing round morons...

The only problem is that I think someone who bails someone up in a supermarket line based on nothing more than how they're dressed is the moron. And probably if I'd been in that supermarket line I wouldn't have tip toed round the moron - I would have laughed at them, not with them..

Then again, I also think those who throw around huge stereotypes can be a bit on the moron side as well. Only problem is at DU I've learnt we've got to tip toe round them :)

Violet...

[uppityperson]

199. Yet you prejudge the OP by sex?

I think OP acts rude, drank beer, must be male?

[Violet_Crumble]

203. Nope...

I just can't be bothered to click on the profile. Believe me, I've drunk beer and acted rude and I'm female. But why would it matter to you seeing you don't appear to have any problems with the OP judging the woman in the queue based on how she was dressed?

Violet...

[uppityperson]

206. judge not that you may not be judged

Just pointing out that you complain she is prejudging yet you do it. You have an easy fast way to see if this person is male or female, yet you can't be bothered to click on the profile? ok.

[Violet_Crumble]

209. I wasn't interested in the gender of this person...

How hard is that to understand? What's the vital importance of the gender in this 'story' anyway? Not knowing someone's gender on the internet is not prejudging, btw. Just the same as I've got no idea what gender you are and care even less...

Violet...

[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

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[uppityperson]

234. Yes and no. We all judge each other, then go on from there.

Of course we all judge each other. The trick is not letting that judgement rule how you feel and act towards someone. We judge by sex, clothes, age, height, glasses, reminder of someone else, etc. I judge and have been judged. But I also talk with people who don't meet the standard to find out things about them. Especially at this time in history I talk about politics with everyone. The repub guys at the feed store. The grocery clerk. The elderly little old man with the anti-bush stickers and the elderly little old woman with the pro-bush stickers.

Yes, she prejudged someone, asked a question of her, pointed out a negative part of her beliefs. The shopper was embarassed because she realized something she had voted for turned out being wrong and someone, a stranger even, had pointed it out to her. If shopper truly had no remorse, she wouldn't have felt bad about it. I do not have a problem with this whole thing. finis

[Name removed]

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[Violet_Crumble]

207. Leave where?

I'm sure that made some iota of sense to you somehow, but weren't you the one arguing that one must confront morons wherever one finds them and not let them win? So why would you then want someone to run from morons when they encounter them?

Violet...

[Name removed]

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[Violet_Crumble]

240. Carni, are you typing faster than yr thinking?

It's just that yr responses are making less sense each time...

Not sure at all what my location has to do with anything, nor why you'd be telling me to leave anywhere...

As fate would have it, I am paid by the Australian govt. Not to prop up bush and his followers, which would make no sense considering I'm opposed to all that Bush stands for, but to sit and do what passes for work. If you think pointing out the silliness of some weird incident in a supermarket line is 'propping up bush and his followers', then wait till I break the news to you that not all progressives march in lockstep when it comes to opinion.

But I've really got to thank you for the, uh, question. It's not quite up there with being asked 'so how long have you been an anti-semite for?' for daring to criticise Israeli policy in the OT, but it's not far off it for amusement value :)

Violet...

[Bouncy Ball]

189. I can't get past the blood on their hands.

It grosses me out, always dripping everywhere. Blech.

[NoSheep]

53. There ya go!

:-( Sad but true.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

24. IMHO, you better start catching on to the fact that EVERYTHING is....

...moving toward a "we vs them" situation. You have nobody to blame if you don't start taking a stand for what you believe, outnumbered or not.

[TXlib]

30. I do stand up for the things I believe in.

I'm just not a binary type of person about it.

[Name removed]

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[NoSheep]

54. Amen, and amen.

:P

[Tsiyu]

101. And the sad part?

*****Oh where is the smiley that shows a CONCEPT flying right over and past someone's head?*****

Some people just. don't. get. it.

I cannot be friends with these sorts. I can be civil, businesslike, professional if I MUST deal with them, but friends? With self-centered, sit-on-your-ass-and-make-nice-while-the-ship-goes-down types? I'd rather eat broken shards of glass...washed down with bleach. :thumbsdown:

[Name removed]

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[Tsiyu]

116. If you have the time, good for you

I don't have time to educate ignorant, lazy people and I don't want to be friends with them. Ignorant,lazy people are ignorant and lazy due to the fact that they care ONLY ABOUT THEMSELVES. They take the easy way out of everything.

My guess is that NoSheep had a gut reaction about the woman and expressed herself accordingly. We weren't there and don't know the true spirit of the exchange. I suspect the exchange had less to do with this woman's attire than her demeanor. And it isn't as if she threw tomatoes at her or cursed her. She asked a question and backed it up with another question.

If you want to sit every Repuke down and explain American History 101, Civics, Politics and Economics to them, be my guest. But the rest of us are not rude, blind or unproductive because we don't care to do the same.

[Name removed]

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[uppityperson]

126. Sometimes being blunt, thought of as rude, opens conversations

Sometimes it makes people think. I don't see this situation as belittling people in the grocery store or screaming at them, but asking a question, getting an answer, and responding to it. Pointing out the consequences of someone's support is not belittling. It is ok to be blunt and straightforward and not be so concerned with making other people comfortable. What can be more important is openness and educating them by pointing out that voting republican raises taxes and sent people to war. This is educating them.

[Blue Belle]

128. Oh yeah...

I'm SURE she was open to conversation. If she was, then maybe she would have stayed to discuss the topic further. But, just as you would have done if someone made an off-handed comment about your political leanings, she left. Blunt is all well and good (and I think Howard Dean is right to be talking bluntly about Republican leaders) but there's a big difference between educating someone, and "schooling" them.

[uppityperson]

132. Do not assume you know what I would have done

I think you are prejudging me and attributing behaviors to me based on that prejudgement. People make offhand comments about my political leanings and I do not leave. I have had some interesting discussions with people from all sorts of political ideologies.

Again, in my opinion asking a question, getting an answer, and responding to it by pointing out the consequences of someone's support is not "belittling", or "screaming", or "schooling".

[Blue Belle]

134. I'm attributing your behavior based on your response to my post.

I made a judgement based on the opinionated information you provided... and I'm sorry if it is incorrect. See how offputting it can be when someone makes a broadbased assumption? I don't know anything about you, but I've obviously offended you. Ooops.

If you want to simplify what the original poster did and call it "poiting out the consequences of someone's support"... that's fine. My point - which you've completely overlooked - is that now that this woman has been humiliated, the chance of her changing her mind about Democrats are slim to none. Well done. Way to keep the nation divided.

[TXlib]

153. Yeah, it makes them think.

It makes them think you're an asshole, and then they discount anything you had to say.

It's very hard to educate through intimidation or scorn, and damn near impossible if you've put the other person on the defensive.

[uppityperson]

178. So I should never challenge anyone because they might get defensive?

I should never challenge anyone's beliefs or actions because they might get defensive or think I'm rude? People can learn and think, even if they are embarassed about their previous actions, or having the falseness of their actions pointed out to them. I do not think that pointing out negative behavior is bad. You do. I do not think having someone be uncomfortable with their beliefs is bad. You do. Why do you argue by insult and scorn?

[Name removed]

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[TXlib]

150. Bingo.

It is better to light a candle, than curse the darkness.

But certain people would rather froth at the mouth in impotent rage.

Those same people will shake their head any say you & I just don't get it, because we are unwilling to cast the D/R thing as total war.

[Blue Belle]

158. It would be nice to have the luxury...

of writing off Republicans as friends, but I can't do that - and I live in a Blue State!! Just because we can maintain a friendship with those of differing politics, doesn't make us Dem-light. It's called living in a divided America. This "Fuck Em if they don't think like us" attitude will get us no where. :eyes:

[Name removed]

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[Blue Belle]

171. Hmm..

Weird how you couldn't get your message through to Republicans... what with your high tolerance for differing opinions and all. :eyes:

[Name removed]

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[Violet_Crumble]

193. Dingdingding! Great to see Godwin's law brought into this...

n/t

[Tsiyu]

256. It's best to read the whole thread before critiquing

a person's methods. If you'll look through the whole thread, you'll see that I said I could cooperate and be civil and professional. I just cannot spend my precious life educating grownups who have the full mental capacity and the resources to research their government on their own.

I would say your criticism comes closer to the model of "cooperation is evil" because you view what the OP did as some horrible, cruel, painful thing. She just asked a question. And then another. She did not disrupt the woman's day unless honest questions are now seen as disruptive.

We won't get anywhere if we can't ask these questions and if we can't get the clueless to at least wake up to the pain all around them.

[Name removed]

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[Tsiyu]

253. Where did I say I spew hatred at people?

Just because I refuse to shop at WalMart and believe they are evil and don't care to engage the local manager in a discussion as to why does not mean that I stand outside Walmart screaming obscenities.

I just don't waste time on selfish, lazy people.

:rofl: I guess that really bothers you. Perhaps you are tired of them yourself and you don't even know it....

[NoSheep]

254. I'm truly amazed by this.

Some of these posts have more hatred in their little pinkies than I do in my whole body! I'm confused. Attack, Attack, Attack. I was trying to point out to someone on the other side that their vote is killing people . Now look at this. Attacked by our own people. I..I just don't know what to say.

[Tsiyu]

257. Not all that glitters is gold

If'n you know what I mean. ;)

[Name removed]

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[Blue Belle]

208. I'm not speaking for the die hards...

that will always be content to lick Bush's boots. I'm speaking of those who have become disenchated with Bush and now want to do something about it. You said it yourself... 85% poor Approval. How are we supposed to impeach, if we don't educate these people in their options. How are we supposed to fill Republican house an Senate seats with Democrats in '06 if they don't know what's really going on?? This tough love thing - no matter how much we want to rub their noses in it, and how justified we are in doing so - is just going to keep them voting Republican.

[Name removed]

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[Tsiyu]

164. Do you grow any carnivorous plants

big enough to eat people? Just wondering.

I don't have time to build an Empire State Building out of toothpicks, either, but I will talk to people who understand that Repukes are evil. I just don't waste my time talking to your kind of human- the self-absorbed repuke. It gets one nowhere, it's futile; it has nothing to do with difficulty and everything to do with efficacy.

[TXlib]

239. well...

It gets one nowhere, it's futile

Yes, it's futile, if your method is to scream at them.

Like I said earlier, if you frame your political argument in the context of friendship, they are more likely to be receptive to your points.

[rinsd]

161. Fur us or agin us.....

Fucking rightwingers have won the day already...

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

26. are you rebutting this for your own benefit or the benefit of others?

[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

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[TXlib]

35. No, no coincidence at all.

Yes, I reply to a number of threads here that I found elsewhere. But to assume I am doing it for somebody else's sake is wrong. I do it because i am just as annoyed by my own side acting like a bunch of rhesus monkeys flinging poo as I am by the other side doing it.

Posting on a conservative site, I became sensitised to bullshit and hypocrisy. I hate it when i see it there, and paying attention to it there has made me more aware when my own side is doing it. It irritates me no matter WHO is flinging poo. I think the politics of anger is a big part of what is wrong with our country now, and we're just as much to blame for that as anybody else.

I think it is far more productive to assume that my republican neighbor has, ultimately, mostly the same goals as i do, but a different way of going about achieving them. If you can at least agree on that much, then you are much more likely to come to a valid compromise.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

37. Except that by doing it that way, you reward one set of poo flingers

And can you cite any valid compromises on their part in the past five years?

[TXlib]

39. I punish poo flingers equally.

I am karmic TP.

[NoSheep]

71. Oh good grief this one is making me sick.

:-(

[uppityperson]

86. "politics of anger" is not what is wrong.

What is wrong is why there is so much anger and what to do about the cause of that anger. The problem is not that so many of us need to supress our anger, but that we need to get to the root of it. While you are having homebrew with your neighbors, think of my son trying to figure out how to keep from dieing in their war, of my husband trying to keep from losing his job from their economics and of me trying to figure out how to pay for my health care from their lack of affordable health care. Their goals are not the same as mine.

[Name removed]

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[TXlib]

42. I have never hid that I post at multiple sites.

On what am I busted?

[Name removed]

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[NoSheep]

62. hmmmmmmm?

:freak:

[Bouncy Ball]

187. Well now I rarely ever talk politics in person (believe it or not)

but the reality is that a LOT of our lives are controlled by politics.

So, yeah, things ARE about politics, whether you choose to acknowledge that or not.

[Jara sang]

25. I'm down with that!

Fuck them, they don't deserve a free pass, I agree, shame the living hell out of them.:applause:

[Bethany Rockafella]

27. You were very nice to let her go first but to me I wouldn't have

asked her if she voted Democrat after she thanked you. That was unnecessary.

[ComerPerro]

33. good setup

[KansDem]

34. Sometimes when you start out to do a "good deed..."

...you end up doing a "gooder deed."

...And here's to Bass Ale! :beer:

[BigBearJohn]

36. LOVE IT

[stanwyck]

41. Let them know we're here

it's amazing how surprised people are to find out there are so many of us. Liberals. Everywhere. You never know where we'll pop up. At the grocery store. At the office. At a cocktail party.
I want us all to make our politics known.
Too many of the hateradio crowd intimidate by just acting as though everybody agrees with them.
Speak up.
Let them know there is a huge group, smart and articulate, who opposes their views. You'll be amazed at the number of people who chime in. They're just being polite and stifling their feelings.
No more.
Let them know they're not the majority they think they are. You'll find you have a very appreciative audience.
Well done, NoSheep.

[NoSheep]

52. Thanks. It's time to speak. No holds barred.

:bounce:

[uppityperson]

87. I was too quiet and polite pre-November.

Now I am not. And I have gotten much more positive responses by being blunt than I thought I would. Time to speak up more and more and more. If they are embarrased or think me rude, tough. At least being blunt and forward will get them thinking.

[Glenda]

47. That's great!

You're awesome. You made my day !

:pals:

[Obamarama]

48. Shame em' indeed! Thanks for the laugh!! :-)

n/t

[steve2470]

49. I understand why you did what you did.

When I was 16, I was a very liberal Democrat and gutsy enough to support the most liberal Democrat in the primaries for the '76 election. Of course, most of my classmates laughed at me. I tried to stay away from Republicans. Maybe I'm hopelessly naiive, but I'd like to think, as txlib does, that with reasoned political discourse in a good forum that some of them can be won over. Let's save the hardball tactics for the scum in Washington, and in the statehouses. The typical Republican (not all of them) probably has no real clue what is going on in Washington and how it really affects us. I'd like to give them that much benefit of the doubt. If I get to the point where I think all Republicans are out to fuck me over, then I will seriously consider moving to Canada or Australia. I just think most of the Republicans are sheep being led to the slaughter as we are, and the rich Republicans will laugh their asses off until the neo-Nazis come for them.

[Tsiyu]

106. Okay, if they have no clue,

whose fault is that? If they want to be lazy citizens who need me to pre-chew everything for them, I simply don't have time.

If someone can see how the War in Iraq is "not" going, if they can see how the economy is "not" going, and they don't have the strength or the motivation or the intellect to figure out why, I don't believe they can ever be reached.

I don't make excuses for laziness at a time like this. Inform yourself or be left behind, I say.

[iwantmycountryback]

50. Nice job!

:toast: :applause:

[Stirk]

56. I'm sorry- but that just seems very rude to me.

I don't see anything in there to suggest that she provoked a confrontation of any sort, much less a political one. And why fault her for going in front of you? You *did* invite her to, correct?

[NoSheep]

63. Yes I did. Read the whole thread. You may get a sense that some

of us are MAD AS HELL-AND WE'RE NOT GONNA TAKE IT ANYMORE!!!!!:*

[Guaranteed]

222. Yeah, but you made the judgment offhand, on your own.

Yes, you asked her if she was a Republican- but you made the judgment, and felt the anger, beforehand. That's how the politics came up.

I don't think it was the right thing to do. You attacked her out of nowhere.

[FreedomAngel82]

58. Nice story!

Yep, they deserve it. Thinking of themselves is so selfish. :mad: "Party of values" my ass!

[friesianrider]

65. You're my hero!

[NoSheep]

70. This world is just making me nuts! Believe me...

I don't want to fight, but the situation calls for it and I've been speaking my mind and buckin' the numb for as long as I can remember. It's just in my nature to let people know what I think. What do we have to lose at this point? I cry when I'm experiencing my best times because if they knew what that was like, maybe they wouldn't be so damn selfish and hateful. I've seen my gay friends drink themselves to death, my depressed friends lose thier livelihood, and other good people, working everyday to try to make it and basically getting taxed because they are honest! Now, the death...there's no turning back. Either you're part of the solution or you're part of the problem.

[stevans_41902]

80. TXlib, understand where you are coming from...

I also live in a very conservative state (KS) and have a couple repblican friends, though they do not have the characteristics of a typical repuke. I am fairly young so you have to understand I was friends with these people before I started to really care about politics, so although I DESPISE their political beliefs I know its just the bs they have been fed by their parents. Within the group of friens I hang out with, most are very liberal but there are a couple conservatives. I know even the most liberal ones in the group would see it as immature of me to say "i'm not hanging out with you guys anymore b/c you allow a republican in our group." Personally I could never be in a serious relationship with a republican, though - I would find it impossible to dedicate my life to someone who goes so far against my beliefs and supports the immoral bush presidency. Also there would be WAY to many arguments for it to be a healthy relationship...
I thought it was hilarious to read the post about telling the girl w/ the bush sticker on her toyota where her money was going. I have considered doing the same thing w/ the republicans I know when I see them purchasing something thats high on the buyblue rating list, but I've come to stop myself b/c of the chance that they would no longer support that company. I love to see it though, rare as it may be, b/c so many of the chains are giving $$ to help republicans.

[really annoyed]

69. That Is Funny, But....

I could never do something like that in public. It seems a bit rude to me.

[NoSheep]

72. Face your enemy, oh really annoyed.

:7

[really annoyed]

159. Naw, I'm Too Polite For That

Like I said, I thought the story was REALLY funny.

I'm just saying I would never have the guts to act like that in public.

That is just me though! :)

I don't expect other people to be like me. We need bold people, for sure!

[uppityperson]

88. So? Telling someone you disagree or have opinions otherwise is ok

You don't always have to be the polite one, always looking out for others feelings, not being embarassing or thought of as "rude". It is ok.

[really annoyed]

160. Yeah, I Know

But with my experience, when I try to be bold, I always get in trouble. :evilgrin:

I have to err on the polite side.... Because when I get angry, I get VERY angry, haha.

[Violet_Crumble]

73. Maybe they were laughing at you, not with you...

I know I would have been. It'd be hard to tell with those Bass Ales in ya, y'know...

If a republican pulled this stunt in a supermarket, there'd be howls of outrage from the peanut gallery about how obsessive and wankerish the republican was and how we can't even go to a supermarket without being harrassed by the freepers...

Violet...

[NoSheep]

79. I assure you, being laughed at I got over about 30 yrs ago.

Perhaps you are in the wrong forum?

[Violet_Crumble]

84. That's nice to know, but irrelevant...

If you didn't know someone was laughing at you, you wouldn't need to get over it...

Nope, just did a quick check and I'm in the right forum, though I/P is more my pace. Why? Is that some sort of 'witty' comeback for those who don't think the way you acted was funny? You judged a woman based on how she was dressed, made what for many is an already painful trip to the supermarket more painful by carrying on uninvited about politics, and imo, made a bit of a fool out of yrself with some immature behaviour. Me, I would have told someone asking me about my politics to fuck off and leave me alone...


Violet...

[Dorian Gray]

107. You rock, Violet!

Love your name, and love your attitude! :)

I would feel the same way if I were accosted by someone who had obviously done his fair share of drinking while I was shopping in the supermarket.

Not only was it rude, but it could have been construed as threatening. I'm assuming (maybe mistakenly) that the OP was a male.

[Violet_Crumble]

185. Thanks!

For me the supermarket is the place I get in and out of as quickly as possible while talking to as few people as possible. It's only slightly higher on the scale of things I want to do than going to the dentist. The only time someone's tried to discuss politics with me in that sort of setting was recently at a petrol station at Grafton, and then I didn't mind because I was wearing a 'Free Palestine: End The Occupation' tshirt and he wasn't picking a fight, but just pointing out that my tshirt was wrong because the Americans were in Iraq, not Palestine. I thought that was kind of cute :)

I think most normal people understand that politics doesn't overwhelm our lives 24/7, and that work collegues, friends, and family don't necessarily share our political views. Weirding out on them and calling them the enemy and refusing to have anything to do with them is just a bit on the extreme side. I mean, do these people give everyone they come into contact with a questionnaire on their political views and summarily exorcise those who fail from any part of their lives? It's all kind of immature...

Violet...

[Carni]

195. Threatening?

Oh my call the police!

Someone threatened you! <GAG>

[Violet_Crumble]

201. A question for you...

So if this had been reversed and a republican acted that way to a woman in the supermarket, you'd think it was acceptable?

And you have a problem if someone were to call the police because they were being threatened? Some moron got in the face of my elderly mother recently at a theme park and my equally elderly dad did go and fetch a cop that was nearby. I'm failing to see what problem you'd find with situations where people feel threatened looking for help...

Violet...

[Name removed]

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[Violet_Crumble]

220. Try answering the question you got asked...

Which wasn't 'Hey, how about you throw insults at me and do you think any dem or independent who wasn't a shrinking violet would reply?'

My question was if the situation had been reversed and it was a republican behaving that way towards a woman in a supermarket, would you think it was acceptable? It's not a difficult question, is it?

Violet...

[Name removed]

229. Deleted message

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[Violet_Crumble]

233. Yr not making any sense now...

Hello?? You answer *a* question. It certainly wasn't the one I asked you...

And knock off the clumsy attempts to bring sexism into this while defending someone who judged a woman based on nothing more than how she looked. And the fact it was a woman in the OP should make it obvious why I sited (btw, it's cited) a woman. And, d'uh. I did use the magic words 'if this were reversed'. Most people with an ounce of nouse would work it out from that. So stop feverishly searching for reasons to attack people when none exist, okay?

Violet...

[Carni]

217. BTW you need to update your blog

The last entry is 2005...and additionally I have to live and work under this mother fucker Bush.

I am not just posting comments from Australia about our state of affairs (funny how actually LIVING HERE UNDER BUSH has tendency to wear a person down and make them fucking combative)

But carry on with your wordly commentary because I find it very insightful...

[Violet_Crumble]

231. Sorry. I missed the answer in yr post...

Oh, that's right. That's because there was no answer to the question there! Yep, instead I find a gentle chiding about how being an Australian, I wouldn't know about the state of affairs in the US. Well, that's news to me, what with the way the foreign policy of Bushco affects us elsewhere in the world in ways that you can only begin to imagine. That we're not aware of the dangers of Bush and his cronies? Y'know, you don't have to live in the US to know how fucking dangerous Bush is. And so what if you have to live and work under him? I have to do the same for our conservative leader, and that's no great bundle of laughs, but it hasn't affected me that I'd weird out in a supermarket line or anything...

But thanks for reminding me about my sadly neglected blog whose only real visitor was the obsessed Blitz the Likudnik. If time and attention span permits I might bring it back to life with a bit of a meander about how those on the right who paint all on the left with the same brush are no worse than those on the left who do it to the right...

Violet...

[Carni]

238. Maybe you should

And then maybe you should explain why Australia is our so called ally that won't pull out of Iraq because they are so in bed with Bush...you know? (just saying)

While you're doing all that...maybe you should send a few missives to your own government instead of lecturing the original poster about our *grocery stores* and our right winged patrons.

BTW do they call them grocery stores in Australia?

How did you become so familiar with our yuppie GOP bent repukes anyway?

[Violet_Crumble]

242. I've already put something on my blog about the Aust/US relationship...

It's one of the first entries. But if you genuinely want me to explain the Australia/US relationship to you in all its pathetic detail, I can. If on the other hand, yr trying to make out that I have no right to comment on someone acting like a twit in a supermarket because the govt of my country is in Iraq, I'd be telling you to go grab the biggest mirror you can find and go take a good, hard look in it....

Grocery store. supermarket. Woolies. Coles. That's what we call them...

Where did I say I was familiar with republicans? And what does that have to do with pointing out that the actions of the original poster were pretty silly?

Violet...

[Dorian Gray]

250. Nobody threatened me.

Personally, I do not give a crap! I'm just stating my opinion like the 100 + other posts on this topic are doing. So, sue me! <GAG> Once I'm out of this topic, I'll forget all about it until it comes up again as either I got a response or it appears on the front page on GD. That's all. :)

[uppityperson]

202. Why do you assume OP is male?

check out author's profile. Does having OP be female make you look at the situation differently? Does this perhaps make you look at your own prejudices?

[Violet_Crumble]

205. You've already asked and been answered in the thread...

Instead of repeating the same thing to every one of my posts, hows about YOU try and answer the questions I asked in the post?

Seeing the gender of a poster is completely irrelevant to their 'story', I'll refer to it as *it* in future to keep you happy. Okay?

Violet...

[uppityperson]

211. I asked Dorian Gray this here, not you.

You I asked elsewhere. I am assuming that it is ok to ask different people the same question, and assume that the person I ask will respond. Why are you following me and answering this again when it is directed at another poster? I got your answer above, but this question was for DG #107 as indicated by the "reply to #107" in the top right corner.

[Violet_Crumble]

216. I would think the question would be obvious...

I'm not following you around. The way the threads are laid out it looked like you'd replied to my post, and I was mistaken. Do you have a problem with that?

But while yr here, how about you answer my question:

So if this had been reversed and a republican acted that way to a woman in the supermarket, you'd think it was acceptable?



Violet...

[uppityperson]

227. Yes and yes

Mistakes happen, apologies are accepted when given gracefully and not with "do you have a problem with that" attached as this is not any sort of apology or acknowledgment beyond the best defense is a good offense.

Yes that would have been OK if a repub had done it. I have had it happen to me, and I have been embarrassed and gotten better prepared for the next time (for instance now I carry enlistment application for the guys at the feed store for next time they go on about Mr.bush and the Iraq invasion). I do not back down from random political comments and talking with strangers about politics, even in public. I too have had someone I thought was repub turn into a dem after talking with them. It is fine with me.

[Violet_Crumble]

245. But I wasn't apologising to anyone...

I read the thread and mistook a response as being to one of my posts. I explained it to you even though in hindsight it should have been obvious that I mistook it as a reply to my post. End of story...

See, at least yr consistant. I wouldn't have thought it was okay if a republican did it. And if you have had someone change their views after talking with you, you'd be the first to know that acting in an accusatory manner and putting people on the spot in an attempt to humiliate them doesn't get anywhere near as much success as talking to someone constructively and working out from their reaction how far you can go with jibes and stuff. And I do feel a bit bad for the OP, who obviously posted its story here expecting to earn nothing but praise, only to find quite a few people think it wasn't the cleverest thing to have done in a supermarket line. I won't even get into what I think about letting people who look like they're racing get into line in front of me!!


Violet...

[Dorian Gray]

247. I think that,

regardless of the person's sex (which I stated I assumed was male, though I could be wrong), it would be unpleasant and threatening for someone to attack me in the line of a supermarket if they had been drinking.

Trust me, I have many family members who drink a lot, including a sister-in-law. Her behavior can actually be more threatening to those she doesn't like than her partner, a male who drinks just as much as she does.

Look, what it comes down to is that I think we should make our voices be heard, but I do not personally want to offend people so much that they just dismiss me and my point of view. I try to be reasonable, and I try to realize that just as much as someone may disagree with me politically, they do not necessarily a bad person make.

Sometimes that is true, sometimes it is not. I would NOT want to stand in line in a supermarket and be accosted by a drunk conservative. Male OR Female!



ETA: Realizing that the OP is female, I'm actually a little bit more disheartened. It's painful to me to see that a fellow female would prejudge another woman by how she looks. Maybe that's why I assumed that the OPer was male. I don't judge what political party a woman might vote by her skin color, let alone the purse she is carrying or the shoes she is wearing.

[Name removed]

93. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

183. Deleted message

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[NoSheep]

74. Gosh...I didn't know there were so many gentle folk in our midst!

Seriously. If you knew me, you'd know I'm the fairest person ever when it comes to judgment. But I've frankly had it. This behavior, this selfish, self-centered, meeemeeemeeee crap has got to go. The VOTE IS GONE PEOPLE!!! The election has been stolen twice. Grass roots attack on all levels is the only choice we have left. I'd like to know how many folks that were offended by my original post are "well off"? Is THAT what it's all about for you? That I pegged her as a republican because of the way she looked? I pegged her because she was racing me to the damn lane in a grocery store, then I saw that she was obviously wealthy.
Add it up what do you get? An asshole. Call them out. Make them accountable for their ignorance. Those troops don't have the luxury of waiting while they GENTLY get a clue!:banghead:

[smartvoter]

76. Way to stick it to 'em!!! nt

[Rainscents]

82. I,m glad, you spoke up! Way to go!

[NoSheep]

83. Let's all break the silence. That is, unless you are confused

as to where you stand.:shrug:

[expatriate]

92. I've thought about this thread for a while before responding.

My main question is - what do you think you've accomplished by doing this? What did you want to accomplish?

If you just wanted to humiliate someone publicly, you probably succeeded. But do you think your actions did anything that might make this woman change her vote in the 2006 elections? Did your actions make her think more kindly of Democrats, or will your actions make her more amenable to listening to a Democrat's point of view?

Somehow, I can't quite imagine being open to the point of view of someone who humiliated me in public. Now, if you just don't care about her potentially listening to your point of view, and just wanted to hurt and humiliate, I guess you could consider this a triumph. I guess it's a matter of whether you hope to reach some Republicans and get them interested enough to listen and perhaps change their votes come 2006 - or whether you just want to shame them in public and make them even more determined to vote Republican.

Word of mouth is something else again. This woman will tell this story to dozens of other people, they'll pass it on. By the time the story makes the rounds for a while, you'll have been foaming at the mouth and threatening to kill her. Not a great advertisement for the Democratic Party.

Of course, you can always rationalize by saying that no-one like this woman will ever change their vote, that she's obviously a Republican and not worthy to be breathing, etc, so humiliating her in public is a great thing. However, you don't know her. You don't even know if she's a Republican. For that matter, you don't even know if she's an American citizen. Might have been from Canada, or Europe, visiting - those people would have not voted Democrat in the last election either. She might be a non-voter. There are options other than her being Republican. You decided she was Republican by her appearance - perhaps if you saw me when I'm dressed to meet a client, you'd think I was a Republican too, rather than a Socialist Democrat. I don't carry a $3000 handbag, but otherwise, I clean up really spiffy. I wear really nice shoes, and a suit, my hair, though I do it myself, looks like I went to a salon. I make jewelry, so I have what looks to be a lot of expensive baubles. My mother is a lifelong staunch Democrat and hates the Bush administration, and she looks as you described this woman, except that she's seventy-three. Looks don't mean squat.

And honestly, I have to say that other than satisfying your urge to be angry, lash out and hurt someone, you didn't accomplish much by what you did. You might have hurt someone who really didn't deserve to be hurt, and you might have alienated someone who might, just might, have listened to your side, under less adversarial circumstances.

I'd direct the anger into something more productive, like fighting for voter verified paper ballots or another form of activism.

[Name removed]

94. Deleted message

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[stevans_41902]

95. Well said expatriate...

and I think its kinda sexist to see a well dressed made-up woman with expensive tastes and instantly think shes a "trophy wife". Who are you to say that she doesn't make more money than her husband? I own a Coach purse, and someone who didn't know anything about them might think it cost $3000, not $100 on ebay. Although she was (most likely) a repub, she could have also been an independent who voted for Bush on a single issue. I don't think she will be inclined to vote democrat anytime soon, though.

[TXlib]

96. Ding Ding Ding -- we have a winner.

[NoSheep]

97. Thank you for your thoughtful post.

I see I must have struck a nerve. :-)

[Sparkman]

108. This is the place to review public exchanges, political barbs. Practice...

makes perfect. One on one is good for educating everyone we know and meet to our causes. If you're just goofing around, what you did is fun, and even inspiring, but only to others OF LIKE MIND. BUT, facts are the key, and as the Repubs dig themselves deeper and deeper into the quagmires of Iraq, the debt, healthcare costs, the no kid left behind budget crisis, our civil liberty losses, etc., we can't afford to alienate onlookers or moderates. We choose our battles wisely, and save the embarassing attacks for humiliating politicians from the other side, and deal with their minions less combatively. BECAUSE a business environment will not fare well if it's Repubs take their business elsewhere. Meant with my sincerist, constructive intent.

[NoSheep]

109. Point well taken.

[Blue Belle]

146. Welcome Sparkman!

Welcome to the DU! :-)

[expatriate]

177. Meaning?

What do you intend to insinuate?

I've been in situations very similar to the one you described - as the person being "shamed". I live in and am a citizen of another country, and my American accent has gotten me more guff and public humiliation than I care to remember. There are those who think that, just because I have an American accent, I must be a gung-ho George Bush supporter - and they also seem to think that I have some direct connection with him, and have something to do with his policy making.

Being judged solely on one's appearance, or in my case, one's accent, is extremely frustrating. I can tell all the folks who think they're being politically astute by deriding me, as an American, for George Bush's policies that I do not agree with him, that I did not vote for him, that I put in hundreds of hours actively campaigning against him in both 2000 and 2004 - it doesn't matter. They hear an American accent, and their hatred of Americans just pukes right out of them. They aren't interested in what I have to say - only in their preconceived notions of what I must be, because of the way I speak.

If you feel you struck a nerve because I must be a Republican, you're really on the wrong track. You struck a nerve because I've experienced the humiliation of being bullied by people in public simply because of my appearance (which is outside the norm) and my way of speaking. It's a terrible feeling, being vilified in public - and it's even worse when the vilification is not deserved.

[woo me with science]

118. beautiful post nt

[Blue Belle]

123. Well said.

:-)

[Protagoras]

141. Thank you expatriate

you said it better than I could.

[converted_democrat]

103. I think it's great!!!

When someone comes up whining to me about their economic issues, I point blank ask who they voted for. If they voted Democrat I find sympathy, if they voted Republican, I let them know politely it's their own damn fault. Oddly enough, most people who voted for Bush are now having buyers remorse.

[put out]

117. If I read the OP correctly, she wasn't whining about anything.

She didn't ask to go first, the OP invited her to. She said "thank you."

Now, it can be real easy to judge someone on their appearance. Some people on this board are big or small or young or old. Some are women and some are men. I imagine we dress all different ways, sometimes in the same day. Some women and men like expensive clothes, and others don't care or can't afford to (and some really grungy clothes are expensive, I can't always tell). Some people spend money on their hair, some don't, some people wear makeup, some don't. Some folks shave, others don't. Some people drive a van or a truck or a small car or ride a bicycle use public transport or they walk. I fail sometimes, but I try not to project my preconceptions on others. I have been mistaken, on more occasions than I like to admit.

That said, if some patron in the grocery store had inquired, loudly, as to how I voted, I would have felt like they had yelled "Are your tits real?".

She might not have been scurrying out in shame. She may have been looking for someone to make sure she wasn't followed and further accosted in the parking lot.

[converted_democrat]

148. Excuse you? I said I think it's great. And I do. Then I went on to say

what what I had done in a different situation. I didn't claim that there was any whining in this persons situation, just mine, you got to that conclusion all on your own. Jump off. Kay? I'm sorry that you have such a big problem with this, but it's your problem not mine. Democrats have a problem with backbone, that's why we are losing.

[underpants]

105. They should be shamed and reminded about being lied to

and supporting those lies even after they should have known they were lies.

They have blood on their hands-remind them of that too.

[Name removed]

110. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

121. Deleted message

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[ArkDem]

136. The whole thing was probably brought on because the OP

was envious of the woman's attractiveness.

[BurtWorm]

145. The things that push your buttons, ArkDem...

;)

[Name removed]

155. Deleted message

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[DanCa]

112. You know what they say

The road to hell is paved with good attentions. But dont sweat it that much you did a good thing and maybe somewhere shell remember a democrats kindess and from that who knows? I liked your punch line it was pretty funny.

[Mad_Dem_X]

130. WOW! Kudos for having the nerve to do that!

:yourock:

[Catherine Vincent]

140. "You're welcome and I hope you voted for a Democrat"

If it were me, I'd give you a WTF look. :-)

[stevans_41902]

149. If someone approaches you complaining about the economy

you definately SHOULD tell them that it is their fault for voting Bush. Of course most of them will just say something totally brain dead like it was Clinton's fault or it would get even worse if Kerry were president. They are great at blaming Clinton for EVERYTHING I have noticed.
I don't have a family to take care of, so I can find the time to get my hair cut once every 2 months or so. Don't think this makes me a REPUngant whoreB-)

[NoSheep]

152. um...it's not about the hair man.

[Guaranteed]

224. Seriously.

Upon just meeting, that's a dealbreaker.

[proud patriot]

142. Huzahhhh

:toast:

[dean_dem]

162. You know, there are plenty of foaming-at-the-mouth Republicans...

...who would gladly do the same thing to you. Of course, then you'd be on DU bitching about how you got harassed by some freeper.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: this whole world would be a lot more pleasant if people weren't so intent on going out of their way to be complete assholes to each other.

Something along the lines of, "just remember, not all liberals are as horrible as you think they are" would have been sufficient. Just being nasty is not going to get the point across.

[Ilsa]

169. Where do you live? I wanna move there. If all those people thought

you were spot-on with talking about her choices, then I wanna spend more time with them. Where I live, people assume you vote GOP unless it is obvious otherwise.

[Mr_Spock]

172. Very nice indeed - VERY NICE :D

I like your style :D

[Dukkha]

173. You do what you want. FUCK the etiquette police!

It's always a pleasure to see someone have some convictions and stand up to the enemy. It always upsets me too to see so many so-called progressive leftists bend over and take it from the enemy. Like it or not your repuke friends ARE the enemy. We ARE at war with these most vile disgusting human filth in world history and should not be giving an inch anymore. Do not support the enemy by association!

[Name removed]

181. Deleted message

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[uppityperson]

194. Click on "authors profile" and you will find "he" is "she"

I am soooooooooooooo tired of everyone assuming the OP is a guy. Look at the poster's profile before assuming and prejudging them by their sex. Please. Judging someone's behavior by sex is the same as judging them by their clothes which is what most people here are yelling about.

Asking someone about politics is OK. The shopper chose to get answer, to get upset and run out when negative parts of what she supported were pointed out.

[Violet_Crumble]

248. We've been there, done that...

we've put the burning issue of the gender of the OP to bed now, with a compromise that due to my lack of interest in what gender they are, I'll from now on refer to them as *it*..

I think yr reading a hell of a lot into the performance, btw. You *know* why the woman in the queue left?? My guess would be that she left quickly because she was worried she was in the presence of someone a bit on the weird side, and if you refuse to see that the performance was nothing but an attempt to humiliate someone who *it* had prejudged to be a republican based solely on how she looked, then I think yr being selective in what yr reading. Bottom line is that there were surely thousands of more productive ways of approaching someone about their politics than this, and I'm not sure why we're all expected to be patting them on the back for doing something that some of us probably think was a bit counterproductive...

Violet...

[Bouncy Ball]

186. Try to get past appearances.

I'm not tan, I don't look like a trophy wife, but I dress pretty conservatively and my hair cut and color is very expensive. But worth it, in my opinion.

You might look at me and think "republican" and you'd be VERY wrong.

As for your comments.....eh. Not my style. But I'm ok with people getting angry enough to start saying stuff openly to total strangers. In fact, considering what's been going on in this country in the past few years, it's somewhat inevitable.

[Name removed]

191. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

192. Deleted message

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[NoSheep]

210. Dear, the reason I said that is because everyone that dislikes my remarks

seems to be hung up on the fact that I described her looks. The point of the whole piece was that she was racing me in line and I pegged her for a selfish republican and by golly I was right. And I think she, and all of those like her, need to know that we're here, we're sick of their complacency about the war and the state of our country and some of us are gonna call them out. That's all. Really. That's all. I'm a humorist and I like to write and I like to talk and be funny and if these folks knew me, I think they'd get it. But...they don't. I have enjoyed your posts so much, that's why I'm responding to yours, but frankly my dear, I don't give a damn what these middle-of-the-roaders think and I certainly don't mind calling out a republican. Peace.

[Bouncy Ball]

214. Well, I'm certainly no middle of the roader.

I'm just tired tonight. I saw these two white guys, old guys, driving a beat up old pickup with a gun rack in the back and I automatically took them for republicans, but then they honked at me and gave me big thumbs up for my bumper stickers (VERY anti-bush) and one yelled "That's RIGHT!" and I thought "I could NOT have been more wrong about them."

I know in your case you were right, but my situation forced me to think more about appearances, etc.

Anyway, I feel like I'm rambling, need to go to bed.

[NoSheep]

221. Goodnight BB. I get your drift.

:hide:

[Violet_Crumble]

252. I'm a middle-of-the-roader??

Boy, that's going to come as a shock to the likes of GP and Gimel, who had me pegged as being part of the extreme radical left!

fwiw, NoSheep, seeing as you don't care what this middle-of-the-roader thinks. I felt bad for you when I read this thread today. Not in a looking down on you sort of way, but a genuine feeling bad way. You did something you thought was a good idea and would amuse everyone and you and more weirdly, one or two others have gotten a bit defensive when it's backfired a bit and some DUers have pointed out it was a bit of a silly way to act at a supermarket. I wouldn't like it if I was you, anyway. I hope you do think about picking yr moments for trying to discuss politics with those of different political views and next time you do it in a way that won't be seen by anyone as an attempt to humiliate someone just going about their business in a supermarket or wherever. That way there's a chance the person yr talking to will go away and actually think, rather than possibly harden the views they've already got...

Now I'm heading off to be MOR and listen to some Bread and the Eagles!
Violet..

[uppityperson]

196. Whom?

called who a bitch? Bouncyball or the shopper or whom?

[Clark2008]

200. Fuckin' hilarious!

:rofl:

Next time, you get in front of me at the grocery store!

[Name removed]

213. Deleted message

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[Bouncy Ball]

223. I do think there are bush voters

who were and are simply VERY uninformed/misinformed.

SOMETHING about bush et al appealed to them on some level. Or they could be the type who just votes republican no matter who it is. I know a woman like that--she votes republican because her parents did. That's her ONLY reason, nothing else. The republicans could run a poo-flinging monkey on the ticket and she'd vote for it if it had an R after the name. She's not necessarily evil.

[livinginphotographs]

226. Hey Bouncy

I agree. My mom votes Republican just because she always did. Even my dad didn't vote Republican since Reagan (only libertarian), yet she still does. And idiots who fly off the handle at them are doing no good for "the cause."

I try to educate my mom, but she's older and will only listen to so much from her twentysomething son, but I'm not going to scream at her about it, and I wouldn't tolerate for a second some yahoo trying to prod her into a fight like OP did.

We can scream, "This is war!" all we want, but if we end up acting like lunatic freepers, we're no better than they are.

[NoSheep]

228. My family is full of them. I suppose I need to leave my sense of humor

in the lounge. But I live in a city where the rich are VERY aware of what they do. They aren't share croppers with no education. They aren't small town, working class folks just trying to raise kids, keep their mortgage and go to church. They're very well aware of what they have and how they get it.

[Rabrrrrrr]

230. ROTFL!!!!!!

NoSheep, you are AWESOME!!!!

[NoSheep]

236. I'll be sneaking on back to the Lounge now where I belong.

I'll kick any body's ass in pool too. Rack 'em up!:bounce:

[NoSheep]

255. Power to the People.

[Moderator]

258. Locking

This thread has become a flame-fest.

DU Moderator