Fundies have to agree, O.J. was innocent

[MichaelHarris]

They look to the bible to justify their hatred of homosexuality, they choose a leader who lets God tell him who to invade, and they want our children taught from a 2000 year old fable.

Let's take that text then and apply it to the O.J. case,

"If a damsel that is a virgin be betrothed unto an husband, and a man find her in the city, and lie with her; Then ye shall bring them both out unto the gate of that city, and ye shall stone them with stones that they die; the damsel, because she cried not, being in the city; and the man, because he hath humbled his neighbor's wife: so thou shalt put away evil from among you. Deuteronomy 22:23-24

For the average troll let me break it down, Nicole, the damsel was married to O.J., Ron Goldman, the man had lain with her. So we have O.J., not knowing where the gates of the city were and not able to find any rocks stabbing them to death. At best O.J. would be guilty of a misdemeanor, not using stones as prescribed by the ancient text.

Tell me fundie, how the Bible you use to condemn others based on their sexual preference and allows Deanna Laney to stone her children to death works. Using your logic Deanna Laney should be free right? After all the Bible says,

" For every one that curseth his father or his mother shall be surely put to death: he hath cursed his father or his mother; his blood shall be upon him. Leviticus 20

She only did what your Bible told her to do. As a fundie, how do you look at yourself in the mirror knowing you are picking and choosing words from a 2000 year old text just because you want to hate? You can condemn O.J. Simpson and Deanna Laney, going against your revered text for their actions but not let something as non-threatening as homosexuality go. It's really about time you recognize your feelings are based solely upon hatred and not on Biblical verse. Your picking and choosing of laws to follow has nothing to do with faith, it is purely fear and hatred that guides your life, not the word of God.

Michael Harris

On edit, is that why you're so angry over Bushes Supreme Court choice? After all the Bible says,

"Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression. Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing. 1Tim.2:11-15"

Can Harriet according to the Bible even hear a case involving a man?

[mestup]

1. You can't argue with fundies.

They are a giant cult in need of deprogramming.

You have to hit them back with the SAME LEVEL OF ABSURDITY they throw out, lest you go insane.

For example, if they express their hatred of abortion to you, just agree with them and do them one better.

"You're right. In fact, I think we should just kill the mothers. The fetus is going to die anyway, why not let it go down with the ship?"

[MichaelHarris]

2. but with them Pro-Life ends

when the water breaks. When children die in poverty all over the world that's their problem, they can't seem to part with their tax dollars to aid the poor. When the elderly need better medicare or Medicaid that's not a Pro-Life issue, that's a less government issue. When a governor of Texas puts more people to death than all the other states combined that's good governing. The fundie pro-life movement really has only one thing to guide them and that's fear, and maybe Fox News.

[mestup]

3. I so agree. But getting angry at them just fuels their hatred.

They feed on our arguments because they know we're right. Denial is a very terminal disease, and it takes many prisoners.

I've decided that making fun of them is the best way to protect myself from the evil they exude.

[MichaelHarris]

5. I totally agree

that's why I'm going to start selling Y3K computer patches. You ever wonder why they stock-piled twinkees and bullets? My guess was to shoot Jesus when he returned if he tried to get their Twinkees.

[mestup]

7. Thank you for that! It's been weeks since I've had a belly laugh!

:rofl:

(They'd crucify that poor bastard all over again.)

[MichaelHarris]

9. LOL

yeah it was cool after the God and Y2K thing, for months afterwards they went to flea markets and tried to sell their stock-piled Vienna Sausages. Speaking of stock-piled food, would they have offered Spam to Jesus when he returned? I mean it's pork right, or at least pork-like. Would they have shown their Passion of the Christ DVD to Jesus when he returns? Would he really want to see himself all smacked around?

[mestup]

10. Hey, Vienna Psychiatrists started this whole thing!

The middle class thought they were happy until then.


:rofl:

(Stop it! I am in so much pain from laughing!)

[MichaelHarris]

12. was the Vienna Sausage a

experiment by Vienna Psychiatrists to see if we would eat pig lips?

[mestup]

13. Yeah. We'd just been repressing the desire to do so.

[MichaelHarris]

14. I looked at the ingredients once

on an off brand can, it had pork anus as the 2nd ingredient. See that just doesn't sit well on a cracker.

[mestup]

15. Stop it! Name brands like Spam would NOT include pork anus.

LOL! What is your major malfunction?

(Actually, I live about 10 miles away from Fuhrman.(sp) By the time he got here the Skinheads were pretty much gone. Lacking the intestinal fortitude to set up in Compton, they too pretty much disappeared.)

[MichaelHarris]

16. I live on the

border between Washington and Idaho, I've driven through that north Idaho area, there are some crazies up there and I bet they eat Spam.

[mestup]

17. The difference in the metropolis I live in...we cook the Spam first.

Thanks for a rollicking good time here tonight! I'm new to DU and just finding my way.

But hey, as a kid I used to wonder why those anti-black skinheads set themselves up in a white utopia. Policing the area from things they'd never encounter. Seemed to me if they meant business they'd relocate to an inner city suburb in Chicago or LA or something.

[MichaelHarris]

19. well welcome to DU and

watch out for people bearing gifts such as potted meat. I've seen meat in a can that I know for sure never came from an earthly animal. My guess is they found big foot and they are processing him.

[greyl]

4. are most fundies black? - no

Leave the O.J. case out of this.

[MichaelHarris]

6. huh?

[greyl]

8. The Simpson/Goldman murder criminal verdict was correct.

Over 80% of blacks believe that O.J. is innocent.
You are acting as if it's a given that he was guilty.
You are probably white. right?

Just saying...:)

[MichaelHarris]

11. I'm not even making this a black and white thing

I'm just saying according to the Bible O.J. was within his right to croak his wife. If they condemn homosexuality because of the Bible why don't they use the bible in the O.J. case. I'm just showing the hypocrisy of it all.

As far as the O.J. case and it's verdict I could care less, the real question about a fair trail and racial issues can be answered with this:

If the lead detective was NOT racially motivated then why did he retire to a white supremest compound in Northern Idaho?

That alone is enough reason for me to believe the investigation was driven by a racist.

I'm not going to be baited into a black and white issue, my article was solely written to show hypocrisy within the fundamental Christian movement.

And yes I'm white it that's important for your statistics.

[greyl]

23. So there's no reason to bring up O.J. then.

It only confuses the issue. ;)

[MichaelHarris]

24. ummmm

ok

[greyl]

26. ok :)

on with the show.

[annarbor]

66. I'm black.....

And I know that OJ was GUILTY as hell! Most all of the black folks I know agree. Where exactly did those stats come from?

The prosecution may have screwed up the evidence, but that doesn't mean he didn't kill his wife and Ron Goldman.

Ann Arbor

[sam sarrha]

18. it is amazing that anyone survived the bible

[MichaelHarris]

20. George Bush did

but then again he is the antichrist

[jaded_at_best]

21. this putrid book

is behind every major human disgrace in history. Anyone with brains can see that its a tool to control the ignorant and ignite hate.

[MichaelHarris]

22. it's not the book that is a disgrace

it's actually a pretty good book. What is a disgrace is the people who hide behind it and spread hatred.

[jaded_at_best]

25. good book? ? lol

The disgrace is not only the people who hide behind it but the people who WROTE IT. The Bible is simply the most evil and vicious piece of writing in human history. A few examples:

"When men fight with one another, and the wife of one draws near to rescue her husband from the hand of him who is beating him, and puts out her hand and seizes him by the private parts, then you shall cut off her hand; your eye shall have no pity."

Christian god-Deuteronomy 25:11

Why would your god specifically command such a horrific punishment? Should we enforce this law today? If not, why not?

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Now therefore, kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman who has known man by lying with him. But all the young girls who have not known man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves."

Moses-Numbers 31:17

Why does Moses, your god's right-hand man, command his warriors to slaughter women and children and then to abduct all the young virgin girls who have just watched their friends and families butchered? Why doesn't your god speak out against this repugnant bestiality? Why is this found in the Bible, your god's perfect word?

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"But if the thing is true, that the tokens of virginity were not found in the young woman, then you shall bring out the young woman to the door of her father's house, and the men of her city shall stone her to death with stones..."

Christian god-Deuteronomy 22:20

Why does your god demand that women who do not appear to be virgins on their wedding nights be stoned to death? What is the point of this and why is it not done to men as well? Did your god really command something so barbaric or could this be the idiocy of ancient men that was put into the mouth of a god to give it legitimacy? Should we enforce this god-given law today since it is found in your god's perfect instruction manual? If not, why not?

[MichaelHarris]

28. sheesh

all I said was good book, I mean 2001 A Space Odyssey is a good book and HAL didn't make me do shit.

[jaded_at_best]

29. you're not comparing the impact

on humanity of 2001 A Space Odyssey with the impact of the Bible, are you?

No one concerned with justice, intelligence, equality could ever call the Bible a "good book".

[MichaelHarris]

31. maybe I should

have used an L. Ron Hubbard book. In any event find someone else to argue religion with, I just wanted to show the hypocrisy of the religious right.

Let's see, my score tonight with this post:

pissed off someone because of the perceived racial tone of the article

pissed off someone over the religious content

do I at least get credit for the Spam humor or did I also piss off the Spam contingent?

[jaded_at_best]

32. I didn't have a problem

with your original post, but with your calling the Bible a 'good book'.

It's a corrupt book from beginning to end and I could list thousands of examples.

[MichaelHarris]

33. well if it will make you feel better

I guess I could give you my address so you could beat me up.

It's a shame that anger and hatred sits on both sides of the aisle.

[jaded_at_best]

40. no anger and hatred on my part

just common sense.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

47. i think most people reading your posts would disagree

as you obviously have issues with the text since it is corrupt from beginning to end (per your previous post). You conveniently ignore the parts of the book that won't support your 'assertion' and then claim that you are only using common sense...thanks for the laugh...

subjectProdigal

[ProdigalJunkMail]

34. but i guess the thousands of examples of love

and kindness and caring for the poor don't count? Michael was pissed about cherry pickers...find just the verses to make their point and ONLY their point whilst disregarding the rest...seems like you are pretty good at that as well.

subjectProdigal

[MichaelHarris]

35. am

I still gonna get beat up? :)

[jaded_at_best]

42. if the Bible had ''thousands of examples of love"

like you claim, the book would not be the source of justification for so many religious wars, prejudice against minorities, torture, mass-murder, even slavery.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

45. i guess you can only read the parts that justify your point

never mind The Beatitudes or the Love Chapter in Corinthians...just keep on hunting and pecking...you prove the OP's point...just in a way I don't think he intended...

subjectProdigal

[jaded_at_best]

48. ok

can you name one single unique GOOD that has come out of the Bible?

And could this good erase all the division that it has created through history, all the ignorance, prejudice, torture, crusades and slavery?

[ProdigalJunkMail]

49. ok...let's play your game

ignorance...comes from the bible
prejudice...comes from the bible
torture...comes from the bible
crusades...no one has ever fought a war that wasn't religious
slavery...from the bible

You can twist the actions of people...but to blame it on a text...yeah...that makes lots of sense when in the text it says to love your neighbor as you love yourself...

Makes sense to me...blame all the ills of people on a text that a bunch of people never read...

subjectProdigal

[jaded_at_best]

51. you still haven't

named one single GOOD that's come out of it.

And I didn't blame the Bible for ignorance, prejudice, torture, crusades or slavery. I didn't blame Bush for Katrina either.

But Bush made Katrina much worse, the same way the Bible made all those MUCH worse.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

52. and that is because you fail to look at the people

who live what is taught in the Beatitudes and other scriptures that preach love...there are myriad churches out there that do good things...christian, jewish, muslim AND non-judeo-christian sects and millions of people who take those words seriously...you look at what you want. Don't bother to ask or even see the people that have been helped by the love and charity that is preached in the portions of the bible you don't read.

And you quite clearly said "this putrid book is behind every major human disgrace in history." Sounds like blame to me...

subjectProdigal

OnEdit : Bush is a man...not a religion. The Bible can inspire good or evil...it is the man that decides...not the book...

[jaded_at_best]

53. it is the man that decides...not the book?

Who do you think wrote the book? Men.

You can't separate the author from the message, and you can't separate the message from the impact on readers, especially on religious men.

Of course in order to be more efficient, the message has to be sugared with "love", "peace" and "tolerance", the same way Bush sugars his rhetoric with "freedom", "patriotism", "compassion".

[ProdigalJunkMail]

54. it is obvious that you will hear nothing

of what I have said. You take from the book what you wish. You can see the evil done by men and blame it on a text...that is fine. You see what you will. And you can called it 'sugared' if you wish...but the word Love is used over 550 times in the NIV...hate is used only 80 times...hmmmm

subjectProdigal

oh yeah...peace is used 249 times but I will give you tolerance :-) it is only used once to my knowledge somewhere in Romans...

[jaded_at_best]

55. please read

this massive list of Bible contradictions, absurdities, cruelties and atrocities. Maybe one day you will see how wrong and brainwashed you are, no disrespect:

http://members.aol.com/bbu84/biblicalstupidity/responses2c.htm#Since

[ProdigalJunkMail]

56. well, calling me brainwashed is a bit of disrespect to my

cognitive abilities, but that is ok. I can see your point.

The fact of the matter is, that while the bible does have contradictions thrown in throughout and there certainly is evil displayed in the bible, there is also a lot of good in the bible. You can own up to that or not...it is no skin off my nose. I choose to believe that there is a God out there...and Jesus is the personification of that God for me. He came and taught love and little else. Jesus never lashed out at anyone except hypocrites. There is also evil in the Bible...what man has done to man and what man CLAIMS God told him to do...and Jesus literally wept over this.

You can cherry pick good or evil from the Bible. It is not difficult to do...I am certain any six year old can do it. But you seem to focus only on the evil contained there and it shows your agenda.

I am sorry you see people who believe differently than you as brainwashed. It will not serve your goal of convincing them that there is no God... You can have intelligent discourse with a believer...but it requires respect on both sides (a terribly difficult thing to find, indeed).

subjectProdigal

[jaded_at_best]

57. believing in God

should not have anything to do with any books.

You can be spiritual and believe in a supreme force, it's your choice, and still reject the Bible, which has been used for centuries as a tool to brainwash, inflict guilt and fear.

There's no evidence that God or Jesus had anything to do with the writing of any scriptures, unless you believe in fictional characters like the one created by Charlton Heston. I personally think Mel Brooks did a far superior job!! lol

[ProdigalJunkMail]

58. whilst Mel did an admirable job of characters

it is merely your opinion that belief in God SHOULD NOT be based on a book. The God I believe in IS described in a book...you can choose not to believe that but telling me what to believe is no better than some 'whackjob fundy' telling YOU what to believe...

It is apparent that your desire is to do nothing more than discredit the Bible (or at least get others to disown it). For people who see as you do (only the negative aspects of what is there) that should be fairly easy. But people who CAN see the good in the teachings contained therein will be able to reject your negativity with ease.

And while we're at it, there is no evidence of God at all...let alone that He had anything to do with scripture...that's why it is called faith. I believe in biology and physics...I have faith that there is a God...and He is certainly more than you see.

subjectProdigal

[jaded_at_best]

59. you are free to make choices of course

and I am free to have an opinion of such choices. I too had faith once that there was a Santa Claus, I really did.

To me all religions are superstition, even though I respect spirituality, which has nothing to do with religion.

And the way I see it, the Bible doesn't need me to discredit it, it's been doing a fine job on its own for centuries. I am giving you the last word, it has been a pleasure.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

60. it HAS been a pleasure; I appreciate the polite chat

and I hope that you can someday come to a respect of religion and not just of spirituality. There IS good to be found there, but I will certainly concede that man has f*cked it up pretty well (to include the religious texts).

Have a good eve,
subjectProdigal

[tx_dem41]

44. Yeah...that whole "Sermon on the Mount" section....

absolutely vomit-producing. :eyes:

[Montauk6]

27. Yeah, but wouldn't they just find a passage that would "justify" their

hatred of interracial marriage and use that as an override?

Oh, and btw, I guess I'm in that 20% bracket who thinks he did it (no big deal, he's certainly not the first person, celeb or average joe, ever to get away with murder). On the other hand, IMHO, I think the jury got a bum rap for returning a not-guilty verdict. The limelight-struck prosecution team was HORRIBLE, they let the defense swift-boat them (before swift-boating became a concept), and they paid for it. You can't penalize the jury for that, they did their job and .

[MichaelHarris]

30. If

they can find Jesus in a piece of toast they can find a reason for hatred anywhere.

[Pacifist Patriot]

36. Interesting. Yesterday morning my sermon was how Biblical abuse

has been used to generate and justify homophobia. Fundamentalist hypocrisy with respect to use of the Bible...excuse me... misuse of the Bible was just part of it. It's not just cherry picking that is the problem.

Mistranslation, whether inadvertent or deliberate, is another factor. Historical-sociological ignorance is yet another. Mythology is a product of it's time and it's culture. Religious writings from thousands of years ago in primitive languages which are essentially dead dialects and only exist in original fragments if originals exist at all are hardly directly applicable to the present era. At least not literally.

I do think the Bible is a library in which some books are better than others. Some books or passages are wonderfully comforting, uplifting and inspirational. Others are bitterly oppressive and destructive. The books are what they are. How people choose to use them in this day and age makes all the difference in the world.

I can't say the Bible is "putrid" as someone suggested above, but surely the way it's been used is horrifying at times.

[MichaelHarris]

37. I agree

I think someone got an extra hard Grape Nut this morning and decided to Bible bash in general. It's not the words, it's those that use the words in destructive ways that is the problem.

[Inland]

38. Except that OJ and Nicole were divorced, not betrothed. nt

[MichaelHarris]

64. would they been

divorced during biblical times?

[Inland]

65. There was divorce, but I don't know the details. nt

[alcibiades_mystery]

39. There's no evidence that Ron Goldman had any relationship with Nicole

He volunteered to return her glasses to her house because she left them at the restaurant where he worked. There's no evidence he slept with her or had anything but a passing acquaintance with her in the past. Wrong place. Wrong time. So much for your theory.

[tx_dem41]

41. Can you point out where it was proven that Ron Goldman

had "lain" with Nicole. I don't remember it that way.

[Coexist]

43. So then Ann Coulter should be a good woman and STFU, right?

I only wish they would practice what they preach.

[truebrit71]

50. No kidding.....

:rofl:

[Hotep]

46. That's what I say.

Why bring up the OJ shit so often? Many white women are murdered by their husbands/boyfriends every week. The US justice system was at work, and motherfuckers still can't sleep because of the verdict. How many of you are upset over the Robert Blake case?

[MichaelHarris]

61. Never Mind

I thought I could use an example to show the "hunting and picking" of biblical verses to show right-wing hypocrisy, I didn't realize O.J. was off limits. At the time I wrote this I didn't even see a black/white issue, I still don't.

As far as the O.J. verdict goes I could care less except for the fact that it gave rise to a media that sells fear, a media that makes it's fortunes off the suffering of others, and a media that lets a murderous president pass while we look for missing white teenagers. That is the real tragedy of the O.J. verdict.

[tx_dem41]

62. Not off limits IMO. The mistake was that you made a huge misstatement..

in your arguement. There was never any proof of Ron Goldman and Nicole Simpson sleeping together. A few people pointed that out to you.

[MichaelHarris]

63. so if they had

would he have had the biblical right to stone his wife? Remember, in the bible divorce would not have been an option. I don't know if they did or not, heck for all we know the Bible would have allowed their stoning just for "stepping out". All I meant to show was the hypocrasy of picking and choosing bible verses to condemn others.