Protecting people from themselves - a liberal thing to do?

[bee]

I just read this in a thread about the evils of gambling. Now Im wondering... Is this statement true? Maybe Ive been living under a rock but Ive never heard this before and Im pretty confused. It seems hypocritical to me that liberals would support this line of thinking in general. For example, do liberals feel that smoking should be illegal for the sake of protecting smokers from themselves? Is it a liberal belief that whats best for someone should be dictated by someone else? Because if thats the case then Ive been wrongly calling myself liberal all these years. It doesnt make sense to me. I always thought that kind of thing was fundie rationale. Maybe theres something Im just not getting? Like I said, Im confused. But I do know that I dont subscribe to this line of thinking. Not at all. So, if that means Im not liberal.. then what the hell am I? :banghead: Can anyone clarify?

[TahitiNut]

1. Use the tax revenues to fund comprehensive education in Mathematics.

:shrug: Any attempt to criminalize behavior that a sizeable minority of people engage in is doomed to either fail or result in a police state. This applies to drugs, alcohol, contraception, prostitution, gambling and other "victimless" vices. Informed choice is the sole ethical approach of a liberal democratic society.

There is little or no virtue in behavior that's coerced.

[bee]

4. thank you for expanding your response. It was a bit cryptic to

me at first. :) And I completely agree with your view, which I guess is why is was so surprised that liberals would advocate such a thing.

[BurgherHoldtheLies]

2. IMHO, both sides have the "we know what's best for you" causes

but today the Democrats seem to be the less intrusive.

[melody]

3. I was raised by a compulsive gambler

And I still don't want gambling outlawed. I'm all for government programs to curb gambling addiction, but to outlaw it is as pointless and ill-advised as outlawing marijuana and prostitution. I'm fine with not letting smokers smoke in public places (I don't choose to smoke, so I shouldn't be made to), but the other prohibition-style tactics are dumb and useless, imho. Adults should be able to dictate the limits of our private lives, so long as it doesn't impact others.

And I'm a liberal, so yeah, I think you're a liberal, too, in the traditional sense.

[bee]

7. phew! thank you Melody. I was having a poliltical identity crisis

for a minute there over this. And I do smoke, but I am also fine with smoking outside even in the cold and rain.. because its my choice. I have the right to chose to smoke, and you have the right to chose not too and as long as we're respectful of each other... we wont have any problems. We also agree on prostitution and marijuana - which I understood as the general liberal view. Thanks again for the clarification. :bounce: I feel much better now.

[ken_g]

5. liberal authoritarian,

I think most Liberals are of the Liberal libertarian species.

<http://www.politicalcompass.org/>

Take the test, I found it interesting.

[bee]

10. very interesting indeed. It appears that I do infact fit that description

Im just a little south of the Dalai Lama... Cant be all that bad. :)

Economic Left/Right: -4.75
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -7.18

[seabeyond]

6. yes bee, the battle i have with the liberal

as the repugs dictate our behavior thru spirituality, dems protect us from ourselves, because after all, if i chose to be stupid, i lose all rights in decision making, and automatically should be handed to someone more responsible. to protect me from me

a lot of hypocrisy on this dem that we are. but i have faith. the threads i have seen that project this attitude overwhelmingly have people that refuse to allow the democratic party becoming our mommy. whereas the repug wants to be our daddy. further, repugs have even stated bush is our daddy, oh dear.

[bee]

8. lmao. now I understand perfectly.

and I have the urge to shout
"hey youre not my REAL mom and dad so I dont have to listen to YOU" :rofl: I digress.

[seabeyond]

9. lol lol lol

yup yup yup. hear me roar. i dont have to listen to you. i like

[bee]

11. Its like.. theyre not the boss of us. Jeez'm Chrole. ;-) n/t

[Bigmack]

12. I tell people "I don't want to control...

... your life. I just don't want you to screw up my life with your shitty choices."

I don't think you should smoke... not because it will kill you - that's your choice. I just don't want a whole pile of US medical care pissed away during the process of you killing yourself. Dying of cancer costs us all.

I want you to wear a helmet when you motorcycle... not because I truly care if you smear your cerebellum all over I-5, but because if I tap you accidentally with my car, the accident turns into a fatality, instead of an owwie. Lots of social and financial costs there.

If you choose to drink sewage.. fine. Just don't expect me to drink yours. We make rules about keeping sewage and drinking water apart. It's really restrictive sometimes. Tough shit.

Everybody is better off if society gathers around and makes some basic rules that protect the society. Some of those rules are restrictive. If you don't like it.... Well, you know the expression... America, love it or leave it.

[bee]

13. Well, you wont have to pay for my cancer my friend,

because I dont have any insurance. I dont get to go to the doctor... So, your rates wont be effected by my death.

But did you know that obesity costs $123 billion in healthcare per year? We should probably start punishing them too. right? And if they dont like it.. well.. tough shit?

[Bigmack]

15. Who said punish?

Not me! I said just don't punish ME with your screwups.

Don't smoke.... and the government should discourage it with all it's powers, not give subsidies to tobbacco farmers.

I never talked about insurance rates, either. Lots of people die of smoking related diseases and don't have insurance. We ALL pick up the tab, tho... medical and social costs.

[SlackJawedYokel]

16. Not trying to fan flames or anything

but it occurs to me that few people actually "choose" to smoke cigarettes.
The product sold by Big Tobacco has been systematically and deliberately designed, over the past 100 years, to be more potent and more addictive.

The original tobacco leaf native to North America wasn't nearly as chemically potent or addictive.

I often wonder how many smokers would continue to smoke if what was available was akin that original leaf?

A question more related to your answer here... if you are diagnosed with lung cancer late in life will you not go to the doctor?
Just curious.

But did you know that obesity costs $123 billion in health care per year? We should probably start punishing them too. right?
Have you read Fast Food Nation yet?
Yea, in fact, I'd love to punish the fast food industry by making all of them and their stockholders eat nothing but their product for a year.

One of the points made in FFN was that it is the food industries job to sell calories, period.
And in America, where we want the best deal possible... the most for our money, they oblige by selling us the least nutritious, least healthy possible filler.

The marketing industry exists for a reason, ya know?
If we didn't have billions of dollars thrown at us daily selling their crappy products, we'd eventually stop buying them.

Food for thought.(sorry, couldn't resist :D)

Peace.

Cletus

[William Bloode]

17. How about other risky actions?

Like bungi jumping, or rock climbing, lets say skiing, or swimming. All these are risky actions that can cost us all, but none would ever consider banning such choices.

We have to let people choose how they want to live whether we agree or not. Participating in risky behavior is a normal human condition.

[htuttle]

14. I think you're confusing 'liberals' with 'the insurance industry'

The vast majority of all those 'rubber baby buggy bumper' laws are pushed and lobbied for by the insurance industry. Injuries, 'elective' hazards like smoking and drinking, etc... all contribute to higher insurance payouts. In their case, "protecting people from themselves" comes down to higher profits.

Then the right wing turns around and blames the whole thing on the few token 'liberals' sometimes recruited to put a face on these lobby efforts, when the whole effort comes bought and paid for by Big Insurance. The 'liberals' in these cases are nothing but beard -- a paper mache front.