Help me out and refute RW talking point

[TallahasseeGrannie]

that Joe Wilson's report was "full of lies." I'm on the phone with my brother-in-law the jerk!

[Tennessee Gal]

1. Right wing talking point!

Never mind.

[stepnw1f]

2. Well... What Lies?

It's easy to say somebody is lying, because a person has nothing to address.

[JuniperLea]

8. exactly

ask for specifics.

if there were wmd, then maybe he was lying. everyone agrees there are no wmd.

which is funny... remember all the talk about how they were all transported out of iraq and other assorted lies? man, these people are masochists that love to be lied to!

[stepnw1f]

23. I Do Believe It's a Mental Illness

Their objective is to destroy government, because in their sick minds the ends justify the means.

[madmom]

3. make him prove his statements, why should you have to

prove he is wrong make him prove he is right, if he can't or won't he has no argument.

[booley]

4. ask him what in the report were Lies?

liek most cons he is probably just repeating what he has heard and so doesn't know anything about the subject itself. not to mention cons often make thier arguements vague in order to make it harder to refute.

ask for details, specifics abotu what Wilson lied about in his report.

[wryter2000]

5. Ask him what lies Wilson has told

You can't rebut "he's a liar." You can rebut "he said x, which is a lie."

[Kenneth ken]

6. if he says so

tell him to provide evidence
a) this point in Wilson's report is a lie,
b) and this is the truth that refutes that lie.

[Gabi Hayes]

16. ask him what the White House's immediate response to the Times

Editorial was

make it easy for him and tell him they responded the very NEXT day.

hint: they withdrew the sixteen words

plent o'stuff here, too

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=larry+johnson+wilson+lies&btnG=Google+Search

[Gabi Hayes]

7. try these for starters

http://www.tpmcafe.com/story/2005/10/19/142419/59

http://www.tpmcafe.com/story/2005/7/13/04720/9340

[sandnsea]

9. He hadn't seen the Niger document?

Seems like that was one, and seems like he did say he misspoke on that. There was another one, maybe that Cheney sent him when what he meant was that it was his understanding that he was sent in response to an inquiry by Cheney's office. Petty stuff really.

[moc]

10. The veracity of Joe Wilson's report is not the issue.

Joe Wilson could have stood on his head in the middle of Dupont Circle, buck naked, shouting "The King is Dead!"

It doesn't matter. None of it justifies outing a CIA agent.

To refute the specific "Wilson Lied" meme, go here:

http://www.thinkprogress.org/leak-rebuttal

CLAIM — JOE WILSON LIED ABOUT EVERYTHING: “Virtually everything Joseph Wilson said publicly about his trip, from its origins to his conclusions, was false.”

FACT – WILSON CONCLUDED IRAQ INTELLIGENCE NUCLEAR WAS EXAGGERATED: “I have little choice but to conclude that some of the intelligence related to Iraq’s nuclear weapons program was twisted to exaggerate the Iraqi threat.”

FACT – N.I.E. CONTAINED CLAIM THAT URANIUM EVIDENCE WAS “HIGHLY DUBIOUS”: The N.I.E. “noted reports that Iraq was trying to acquire uranium in Africa but included a warning from the State Department that the reports were ‘highly dubious.’”

FACT - THREE SEPARATE REPORTS CONCLUDED INTELLIGENCE ON URANIUM WAS WEAK: In addition to Wilson’s claims, former US Ambassador to Niger, Barbro Owens-Kirkpatrick, and her staff had already concluded the intelligence was false by the time he arrived in the country. Four-Star Marine Gen. Carlton W. Fulford Jr. met with Niger president in February 2002 to check the security of the country’s uranium. Fulford reported that he was “convinced it was not an issue,” and passed his findings to Gen. Richard B. Myers, chairman of the Joint Chiefs.

FACT – FINAL WMD REPORT COMMISSIONED BY BUSH FOUND NO URANIUM WAS SOUGHT BY IRAQ: The final Iraq Survey Group report concluded, “ISG has uncovered no information to support allegations of Iraqi pursuit of uranium from abroad in the post-Operation Desert Storm era.”


*****

CLAIM – WILSON LIED ABOUT HIS TRIP TO NIGER: Former Rove deputy Ken Mehlman: “What Joe Wilson alleged was that the vice president, then he said the CIA director sent him to Niger.”

FACT – WILSON NEVER SAID CHENEY PERSONALLY SENT HIM TO NIGER: Bloomberg reported, “Wilson never said that Cheney sent him, only that the vice president’s office had questions about an intelligence report that referred to the sale of uranium yellowcake to Iraq from Niger. Wilson, in his New York Times article, said CIA officials were informed of Cheney’s questions. ‘The agency officials asked if I would travel to Niger to check out the story so they could provide a response to the vice president’s office,’ Wilson wrote.”

[TallahasseeGrannie]

15. Thanks for this

I'm sending it to his email.

Hope it doesn't kill him.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

11. Never mind I hung up on him

Evidently he has been watching TV again. He's 76 and thinks he knows it all.

Now I'm in big trouble with my sister probably.

[stop the bleeding]

18. Sounds like she is the one who is in trouble. N/t

[wryter2000]

12. The main "lie" I've heard

is that Wilson falsely claims Cheney sent him to Niger. He never said that. What he said was "The CIA approached me and said that the VP's office was interested in the Uranium/Niger story."

That's 100% true.

[wryter2000]

17. Plus

His wife didn't get him the job. The CIA asked her if he's be good for the job, and she said yes.

Also, he never claimed to have been an ambassador to Niger. He was ambassador to two other African countries and was well acquainted with Niger.

If bro wonders why he didn't say anything right after the SOTU, the reason is * said "Africa," not "Niger." Other African countries also sell uranium. It wasn't until her learned for sure that * meant Niger that he spoke out publicly.

Wilson knows Niger and knows the exact details of how uranium deals are done in Africa. He was absolutely the best person for the job.

[Elwood P Dowd]

13. The republicans running the Senate Intel Committee

wrote an addendum to the regular report. It was mostly talking points and lies from Cheney's office. Roberts, Hatch, and ? (I forget the other one). Also, Fox/CNN keep repeating the lie that Wilson said Cheney sent him to Africa. Wilson never said that.

[Coexist]

14. Here is a link to a thread:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x5127543

Please see page 39, Section B: Former Ambassador

http://intelligence.senate.gov/iraqreport2.pdf

[never cry wolf]

19. Don't forget the character witnesses

In 1991, President George H. W. Bush called Ambassador Joseph Wilson a "True American Hero."

With fearless insight and disarming candor, Ambassador Joseph Wilson recounts more than two decades in the U.S. Foreign Service under presidents Ford, Carter, Reagan, Bush Sr., and Clinton — from Angola to Iraq to Bosnia to Niger. Whether fostering peaceful democratization in African nations or facing down Saddam Hussein just days before the first Gulf War or accompanying Bill Clinton on his historic 1998 African tour, Wilson vividly chronicles history in the making. And on page after compellingly narrated page, he demonstrates the courage of his convictions in the face of volatile situations, violent conflicts, and vindictive governments.

As the acting ambassador to Iraq, Wilson was the last American official to meet with Saddam before Desert Storm in 1990. He successfully parried the dictator¹s threats to use American hostages as human shields against U.S. bombing and was given a patriot's welcome by President George H. W. Bush on his homecoming. Yet today he finds himself in a battle with his own government.

-------------

(CNN) -- In 1991, the acting U.S. ambassador to Iraq, Joe Wilson, sheltered 800 Americans at the embassy in Baghdad during Saddam Hussein's invasion of Kuwait. Twelve years later, Wilson was thrust back onto the international stage when he accused President Bush of misleading the American people into another war with Iraq.

Accusations he claims cost his CIA-operative wife her anonymity and her job.

After he left Baghdad, Wilson was nominated by President George H.W. Bush as ambassador to Gabon. President Bill Clinton later named him to the National Security Council in charge of African affairs.

---------------

And here’s what he said in a handwritten note to Joseph Wilson on January 30, 1991 (in the midst of Desert Storm, the first Persian Gulf War): “Dear Joe — Both Barbara and I appreciated your note of Jan. 25. Even more we appreciate your service to your country and your courageous leadership when you were in Baghdad. Good Luck. Many Thanks. George Bush”
Secretary of State James Baker wrote this to Wilson on a photo of the two of them seated on a couch in the Oval Office briefing the President and his top advisors on January 14, 1991, 48 hours after Wilson had lowered the flag at the American embassy in Baghdad, and 36 hours before American bombs began Desert Storm: “To Joe Wilson, with deep appreciation for your outstanding service to the nation — and with warmest personal regards. Jim Baker”
And President George H.W. Bush wrote this to Wilson on a photo of the two of them walking and talking on the White House grounds that day: “To Joe Wilson - with respect and best wishes. George Bush”

---------

sorry, various quotes and snippets taken and unlinked except all came from the top 10% of a simple google search page: http://www.google.com/search?q=%22george+h.w.+bush%22+wilson+iraq&sourceid=mozilla-search&start=0&start=0&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official

there's alot more out there, this guy is a hero and a patriot

[styersc]

20. If Wilson's editorial was full of lies...

...why did Bush sheepishly retract and back away from his State of the Union comments concerning African uranium as a result of Wilson's editorial?

[Ksec]

21. Immaterial my dear watson

This isnt about what Wilson did. This is about the WH outing Valerie Plame. It has nothing to do with this case.

[Carolab]

22. The Italian press knew the Niger documents were a lie BEFORE Wilson went

That's the story that 60 Minutes never got to run because of Rathergate.

Coincidence? Don't THINK so!!!

http://www.commondreams.org/cgi-bin/print.cgi?file=/headlines04/0923-02.htm

{snip}

The delay of the CBS report comes at a time when there have been significant new developments in the case—although virtually none of them have been reported in the United States. According to Italian and British press reports, Martino—the Rome middleman at the center of the case—was questioned last week by an Italian investigating magistrate for two hours about the circumstances surrounding his acquisition of the documents. Martino could not be reached for comment, but his lawyer is reportedly planning a press conference in the next few days.

Burba, the Italian journalist, confirmed to NEWSWEEK this week that Martino is the previously mysterious “Mr. X” who contacted her with the potentially explosive documents in early October 2002—just as Congress was debating whether to authorize President Bush to wage war against Iraq. The documents, consisting of telexes, letters and contracts, purported to show that Iraq had negotiated an agreement to purchase 500 tons of “yellowcake uranium from Niger, material that could be used to make a nuclear bomb. (A U.S. intelligence official told NEWSWEEK that Martino is in fact believed to have been the distributor of the documents.)

Burba—under instructions from her editor at Panarama, a newsmagazine owned by Italian Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi—then provided the documents to the U.S. Embassy in Rome in an effort to authenticate them. The embassy soon passed the material on to Washington where some Bush administration officials viewed it as hard evidence to support its case that Saddam Hussein’s regime was actively engaged in a program to assemble nuclear weapons.

But the Niger component of the White House case for war quickly imploded. Asked for evidence to support President Bush’s contention in his State of the Union speech that Iraq was seeking uranium from Africa, the administration turned over the Niger documents to the International Atomic Energy Agency. Within two hours, using the Google search engine, IAEA officials in Vienna determined the documents to be a crude forgery. At the urging of Sen. Jay Rockefeller, vice chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee, the FBI launched an investigation into the Niger documents in an effort to determine if the United States government had been duped by a deliberate “disinformation” campaign organized by a foreign intelligence agency or others with a political agenda relating to Iraq.