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So, who forged the Niger docs?

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unschooler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-25-05 09:06 PM
Original message
So, who forged the Niger docs?
I'm dying to figure that one out.

:bounce:
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Proud2BaLiberalMom Donating Member (215 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-25-05 09:08 PM
Response to Original message
1. Cheney?
I say that Cheney is in deep sh*t on this one!
Damn Dick!:nuke:
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unschooler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-25-05 09:09 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. Interesting. He certainly had motive.... Any other evidence?
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Fridays Child Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-25-05 09:09 PM
Response to Original message
2. Michael Ledeen, or someone in his circle.
IMHO, anyway.
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unschooler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-25-05 09:10 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. Sorry. The name's familiar, but who is he again?
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Fridays Child Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-25-05 09:15 PM
Response to Reply #5
11. Ollie North's errand boy. More here...
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unschooler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-25-05 09:24 PM
Response to Reply #11
20. Oh, yeah..... Very frightening fellow.
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berni_mccoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-25-05 09:10 PM
Response to Original message
4. Cheney
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unschooler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-25-05 09:10 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. Tell me more....
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berni_mccoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-25-05 09:17 PM
Response to Reply #6
13. His office is the one that ordered the attack on Wilson
And he was willing to sacrifice a CIA agent and her entire organization that is setup to protect us. He knew what he was doing. He needed to destroy Wilson in order for people not to believe him that the Docs were forged.

Cheney has been wanting to go to invade and take over Iraq since he worked for Idiot Son's poppy.

Papers on his energy panels secret meetings from 2001 have been released to public that have the oil fields of Iraq.

Cheney had the most to gain from an invasion/occupation. Look at Haliburton. Look at Cheney's profits. Follow the money (look at my sig graphic).

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unschooler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-25-05 09:26 PM
Response to Reply #13
22. Good point about him being willing to sacrifice Brewster. That
suggests he was up to his eyeballs in it.

Sorry, but I think they must have pulled the sig lines, because I don't see your graphic.
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WinkyDink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-26-05 01:19 AM
Response to Reply #13
34. Says it ALL.
Treason for profit.
Too bad we WON'T execute Cheney.
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Old and In the Way Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-25-05 09:11 PM
Response to Original message
7. Ledeen and/or Franklin, and/or Ledeen
They were executing on the action items that were developed in Cheney's secret "Energy Policy" meetings....the ones where they were planning the invasion and carve up of Iraqi oil assets.

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unschooler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-25-05 09:27 PM
Response to Reply #7
23. OK. I'm getting caught up on Ledeen, but who is Franklin?
Gotta keep all of these people straight for my screenplay....
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Old and In the Way Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-25-05 09:40 PM
Response to Reply #23
25. Franklin's under indictment for passing secrets to AIPAC
But he's got his mits in this, too-

http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/006827.php

"Remember, too, that Pollari attended the secret Rome meetings in late 2001 arranged by Michael Ledeen and attended by Manucher Ghorbanifar, Larry Franklin and Harold Rhode."

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unschooler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-25-05 09:51 PM
Response to Reply #25
30. self-delete
Edited on Tue Oct-25-05 10:26 PM by unschooler
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annabanana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-25-05 09:11 PM
Response to Original message
8. I thought that was one of Chalabi's talents
(didn't he do something like that before?)
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louis c Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-25-05 09:14 PM
Response to Original message
9. I'm Italian
and I think the Italians did it.

If you have ever seen the forgeries, you have to admit, that my pisanos had to have had too much wine.
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Old and In the Way Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-25-05 09:18 PM
Response to Reply #9
14. What would Italian intel's motivation be?
Edited on Tue Oct-25-05 09:28 PM by Old and In the Way
Other than Berscoulini (sp) was a soul brother to the BFEE. Italy had no horse in the Iraqi invason race. I suspect they were agents for the Bush-Cheney administration.

If you are interested, Talking Points Memo is doing the best research on this very issue...
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-25-05 09:14 PM
Response to Original message
10. Translation of part 1 and 2 of La Repubblica
http://nuralcubicle.blogspot.com/2005/10/berlusconi-behind-fake-yellowcake.html

Double-Dealers and Dilettantes--the Men Behind Nigergate Were All Italians.

The military intervention in Iraq was justified by two revelations: Saddam Hussein attempted to acquire unprocessed uranium (yellowcake) in Niger (1) for enrichment with centrifuges built with aluminum tubes imported from Europe(2). The fabricators of the twin hoaxes (there was never any trace in Iraq of unprocessed uranium or centrifuges) were the Italian government and Italian military intelligence. La Repubblica has attempted to reconstruct the who, where and why of the manufacture and transfer to British and American intelligence of the dodgy dossier for war.

They are the same two hoaxes that Judith Miller, the reporter who betrayed her newspaper, published (together with Michael Gordon) on September 8, 2002. In a lengthy investigative piece for the New York Times, Miller reported that Saddam could have built an atomic weapon with those aluminum tubes. These were the goods that the hawks in the Bush administration were expecting.

The "war dance" which followed Judith Miller’s scoop seemed like "carefully-prepared theater” to an attentive media-watcher, Roberto Reale of Ultime Notizie (The Latest News).

Condoleezza Rice, who was then White House Security Advisor, said on CNN: We don’t want the smoking gun to look like a mushroom cloud. A menacing Dick Cheney told Meet the Press that We know with absolute certainty that Saddam is using his technical and commercial capacities to acquire the material necessary to enrich uranium to build a nuclear weapon. This was the beginning of an escalation of fear.

26 September 2002: Colin Powell warns the Senate: The Iraqi attempt to acquire uranium is proof of its nuclear ambitions.

19 December 2002: The information on Niger and the uranium is included in the three-page President’s Daily Briefing prepared each day by the CIA and the Department of State for George W. Bush. The ambassador to the United Nations, John Negroponte, added his stamp of approval: Why is Iraq dissimulating its purchase of Niger uranium?

more


http://crookedtimber.org/2005/10/25/la-repubblica-scoop/

....

It’s a fact that on the eve of the Iraq war, and under the supervision of the diplomatic advisor to the Foreign Ministry, Gianni Castellaneta (today ambassador to the USA), the director of SISMI organized his agenda in Washington with the staff of Condoleeza Rice, who was National Security Adviser to the White House at that time. La Repubblica is able to document this two track process between the government and Italian intelligence. At least one of these ‘barely official’ meetings of Pollari’s was, according to secret service agents, the ‘creation of a system’ that would bring together government, intelligence and public affairs .

To summarize: Nicolo Pollari’s SISMI wanted to substantiate the the Iraqi acquisition of raw uranium to build a nuclear bomb. The game-plan was rather transparent. ‘Authentic’ documents relating to an attempted acquisition in Niger (old Italian intelligence from the 1980’s) were the dowry of the second-in-command of CISMI’s Roman headquarters (Antonio Nucera). They were bundled together with another fabricated document … through a simulated burglary on the Nigerien embassy (from which they had gotten headed notepaper and seals). The documents were shown by Pollari’s men to CIA station agents, and at the same time, a SISMI ‘postman’ by the name of Rocco Martino was sent to Sir Richard Dearlove of MI6 in London.

turning to the second chapter of the Great Swindle, organized in Italy, to build the case that military intervention in Iraq was necessary. … the Italian report on uranium …

… The CIA analysts thought the first report ‘very limited’ and ‘without the necessary details.’ INR analysts in the Department of State assessed the information as ‘highly suspect.’ … The immediate impact on the American Intelligence community wasn’t very gratifying for Pollari … Gianni Castellaneta advised him to look in ‘other directions’ too, while the minister of Defence, Antonio Martino invited him to meet ‘an old friend of Italy’s.’ The American friend was Michael Ledeen, an old fox in the ‘parallel’ intelligence community in the US, who had been declared an undesirable person in our country in the 1980’s . Ledeen was at Rome on behalf of the Office of Special Plans, created at the Pentagon by Paul Wolfowiz to gather intelligence that would support military intervention in Iraq. A source at Forte Braschi told La Repubblica : “Pollari got a frosty reception from the CIA’s station head in Rome, Jeff Castelli, for this information on uranium. Castelli apparently let the matter drop . Pollari got the hint and talked about it with Michael Ledeen.’ We don’t know what Michael Ledeen did in Washington. But at the beginning of 2002, Paul Wolfowitz convinced Dick Cheney that the uranium trail intercepted by the Italians had to be explored top to bottom. The vice-president, as the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence tells it, once again asked the CIA ‘very decisively’ to find out more about the ‘possible acquisition of Nigerien uranium.’ In this meeting, Dick Cheney explicitly said that this piece of intelligence was at the disposition of a “foreign service.”

… Forte Braschi says that “Pollari was incredibly cunning – he knew that it wasn’t enough to rely on the CIA to push the uranium story. It was necessary to work, as Palazzo Chigi and the Department of Defence had indicated, with the Pentagon and with the National Security Adviser, Rice. … An administration official has told La Repubblica “I can confirm that on September 9 2002, General Nicolo Pollari met Stephen Hadley, the deputy to the National Security Adviser, Condoleeza Rice.”… SISMI’s ‘postman,’ Rocco Martino contacted a journalist for a weekly newspaper – edited by Carlo Rossella – to sell her the documents at issue. … Panorama had a worldwide scoop. Title “The War? It’s already begun,’ it spoke of ‘half a ton of uranium.’ … The government asked. The intelligence service gave. The media spread it. The government confirmed it. It was an old disinformation technique from the Cold War. Exaggerate the danger of the threat. Terrify and convince public opinion of it.

more
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stillcool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-25-05 09:19 PM
Response to Reply #10
15. my first readable look at this...
what a difference a few words make!! Thanks!
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Old and In the Way Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-25-05 09:25 PM
Response to Reply #10
21. Thanks SLAD!
I hadn't seen it fleshed out so clearly. I still think this administration was the prime mover for getting the Italians to make it happen. They needed "proof", irregardless if it was true or not.

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unschooler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-25-05 09:32 PM
Response to Reply #10
24. So what was in it for the Italians? Just currying favor w/ *?
Or are they getting a piece of whatever it is we're stealing over there?
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tocqueville Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-25-05 09:15 PM
Response to Original message
12. check here
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unschooler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-25-05 09:46 PM
Response to Reply #12
26. Oh my God. I am speechless.
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hiaasenrocks Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-25-05 09:54 PM
Response to Reply #12
32. THANK YOU!
That is one of the most interesting and informative things I've read in a while. I wish everyone would take the time to read that. Wow.
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lovuian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-25-05 09:19 PM
Response to Original message
16. It was a group Ledeen Chalibi & Goti
thats who it was!!!
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Birthmark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-25-05 09:20 PM
Response to Original message
17. Me.
Sorry. I just got to fuckin' around with photoshop and my new scanner and thought, "Maybe I can turn a buck forging documents implicating Saddam. The Neocons (soon to be regular cons) just love that kinda crap." They'll pay 20 bucks a pop for one of them.

Alas! It was not the novelty I intened, but instead led to a war. But how was I to know? I put FAKE NAMES on the damned thing! Sheesh!

Okay, in all seriousness. I'll be quite interested to see if we ever get an answer to your question. I, too, think the answer is important.
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unschooler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-25-05 09:48 PM
Response to Reply #17
27. Sorry you didn't make that $20 bucks. Maybe you could try selling
driver's licenses to underage kids.
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Birthmark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-26-05 12:36 AM
Response to Reply #27
33. Nah. That would be illegal.
:)
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tocqueville Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-25-05 09:22 PM
Response to Original message
18. juan cole here
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Warren DeMontague Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-25-05 09:23 PM
Response to Original message
19. This guy:
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unschooler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-25-05 09:50 PM
Response to Reply #19
28. Isn't he with the American Enterprise Institute?
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Neil Lisst Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-25-05 09:51 PM
Response to Original message
29. All roads lead to Cheney and pass through Miller
Chalabi was one of her big prewar contacts. Who set that up?

Judy Miller was in bed with the Bushies in 2002! A year before the nefarious events of May-July 2003.

Cheney got the forgies done, then he told the CIA to send someone to look for them, but they sent Joe Wilson, and he sniffed out the rat. The whole thing backfired on Cheney, so the White House went ahead with the claim of the yellow cake, figuring they'd never hear about Wilson's report again.

When the first article appeared in May in the NYTimes, they first had to figure out who the source was, and may have suspected Wilson then. Someone confirmed the source was Wilson. I submit it was Judith Judas Miller.

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unschooler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-25-05 09:53 PM
Response to Reply #29
31. Probably so.
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