HUGE: Secret CIA prison in Europe!!!! (from Dailykos)

[shraby]

WaPo is running this five columns across the top of page one. Great story. Not on their Web site yet:

WASHINGTON--The CIA has been hiding and interrogating some of its most important al-Qaida captives at a Soviet-era compound in Eastern Europe, according to U.S. and foreign officials familiar with the arrangement.

The secret facility is part of a covert prison system set up by the CIA nearly four years ago that at various times has included sites in eight countries, including Thailand, Afghanistan and several democracies in Eastern Europe, as well as a small center at the Guantanamo Bay prison in Cuba, according to current and former intelligence officials and diplomats from three continents.

(more)
<http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2005/11/1/223740/436>

[IChing]

1. crap.... more from the kos....scarey shit

The Washington Post is not publishing the names of the Eastern European countries involved in the covert program, at the request of senior U.S. officials. They argued that the disclosure might disrupt counterterrorism efforts in those countries and elsewhere and could make them targets of possible terrorist retaliation.

The secret detention system was conceived in the chaotic and anxious first months after the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks, when the working assumption was that a second strike was imminent. Since then, the arrangement has been increasingly debated within the CIA, where considerable concern lingers about the legality, morality and practicality of holding even unrepentant terrorists in such isolation and secrecy, perhaps for the duration of their lives. Mid-level and senior CIA officers began arguing two years ago that the system was unsustainable and diverted the agency from its unique espionage mission. ``We never sat down, as far as I know, and came up with a grand strategy,'' said one former senior intelligence officer who is familiar with the program but not the location of the prisons.

``Everything was very reactive. That's how you get to a situation where you pick people up, send them into a netherworld and don't say, `What are we going to do with them afterwards?''' It is illegal for the government to hold prisoners in such isolation in secret prisons in the United States, which is why the CIA placed them overseas, according to several former and current intelligence officials and other U.S. government officials. Legal experts and intelligence officials said that the CIA's internment practices also would be considered illegal under the laws of several host countries, where detainees have rights to have a lawyer or to mount a defense against allegations of wrongdoing.

[gordianot]

8. Why not become what we used to fear the most? n/t

[FreedomAngel82]

17. This is really scary

If you haven't you should watch the film "UnConstiutional". It shows on the Sundance Channel off and on and I think you can see it at http://www.informationclearinghouse.info This is really scary indeed. Remember the torture flights? People said that wasn't real and I was called a consperiacy theorist on another board. This probably all links together.

[IChing]

25. the swedish govt is investigating it now.

http://www.thememoryblog.org/archives/000405.html

[RevolutionStartsNow]

2. Not a secret anymore, is it?

Scary.

[MetaTrope]

6. Maybe Novak knows who they are?

[spindrifter]

3. Doesn't this fit in with the rendition

program. This is not really new info. They purposely have established locations for interrogating or stashing prisoners where they do not have to be very careful about human rights.
This is the most dangerous legacy of the neo-con artists a la PNAC. Americans should absolutely not allow our government to participate in this kind of behavior. They have read way too many spy stories.

[lovuian]

12. Maybe Barbara Olsen is in one???

:nuke:

[alittlelark]

16. She's somewhere... or her body is.

Wasn't She Ted's 3rd younger wife?

[tritsofme]

20. What kind of remark is that?

The women, as reprehensible as her politics were, was killed.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

26. There's no proof either way, is there? Like to question my remark, too?

[dchill]

29. Only to say...

you beat me to it.

;)

[tritsofme]

35. By that logic there is no proof any of the people on that flight are dead.

Maybe they were all transported to another planet as part of the cover?

[shanti]

39. could be...

:shrug:

[DoYouEverWonder]

41. There weren't that many people on Flight 77

and very little if any of their remains were found at the Pentagon. Odd? Even on Flight 800, which crashed into the ocean, remains were eventually found for every passenger.

[Tuesday_Morning]

56. Not a lot of people

on that flight...but an interesting bunch.

Some worked for military industrial corporations. Raytheon was one. Some retired military brass and former intelligence folks. Barbara Olsen. She had just finished her book slamming the Clintons.

Very few civilians.

[goforit]

47. My friend, there wasn't any debris from the plane either!!!

But yes there are some who still believe the planet Earth is Flat!

[Catherine Vincent]

55. Did you guys see this movie called "Millennium"?

It's a futuristic movie where these characters go back in time to change the outcome of their future. There was a scene where they purposely crashed an airplane but before it crashed they saved most of the people and brought them to this holding place (the future).

The Pentagon crashing remind me of this movie.

[Monkey see Monkey Do]

58. Plus there's the mystery location of cats like

Khalid Sheikh Mohammed & Ramzi bin al-Shibh. Robert Baer (ex-CIA) has also said that he's been told they are using Egypt & (have used) Syria to torture suspects (indeed, IIRC there was a Canadian guy who spent time in a Syrian jail at the behest of the US).

[BurtWorm]

4. Not to change the subject, but I wonder why Cheney wanted to exempt

the CIA from McCain's prison abuse bill. :think:

[IChing]

9. That was not a change of subject but one of the subjects that this

article brings up in its revalidation ....good point.

[BurtWorm]

15. (I was being ironic.)

;)

[FreedomAngel82]

19. Maybe this is why

And why Bush threatned to veto that bill. Did that bill ever get anywhere?

[BurtWorm]

21. If it had been vetoed, we'd know about it.

[Warren Stupidity]

5. Rape rooms and torture chambers

in a secret gulag deliberately placed outside our national boundaries so that they avoid constitutional scrutiny by uppity judges. Meanwhile we sneer at our treaty obligations. We are a lawless super power run amok in the world.

[walldude]

7. See, it's those damn liberal CIA guys, trying to make Bush

look bad :eyes:

[SnowGoose]

10. It's not the America I grew up believing in.

Well, it was great while it lasted.

[gordianot]

13. Your right it was special, or at least we thought it was special.

I wonder?

[Beam Me Up]

32. The America we grew up believing in was a FANTASY.

We wanted to believe it and we still do want to believe it. We want to believe that we are a Democracy and that people count and that this nation and its global polices are an expression of the will of the American people.

Is it?

How long has it not been?

My personal history goes back to Keenedy and the Vietnam war era. The national security state apparatus, of which the CIA is a part, has been doing some very ugly things both here and abroad for a very long time.

The "cold war" has morphed into a "war on terrorism."

THE QUESTION IS, WHO ARE THE 'TERRORISTS' ª

And another question: Why doesn't our government--including most of the Democrats--and the media--why don't they want to get to the bottom of who perpetrated 9/11 and how they pulled that off? They've offered essentially NO EVIDENCE to back up their explanation of events. People who used fear of terrorism to invade a foreign nation and transfer hundreds of billions of dollars from our treasury to their war machine based on lies. They want us to TRUST them.

I don't trust any of them further than I can spit.

edit:typo

[lovuian]

11. The Bush regime is acting like the KGB more and more!!!

this is exactly what communist Russia had sattelites!!!

[I_Make_Mistakes]

18. Let's call a spade a spade. The SSS is alive and well in the US

The whole world sees the comparison, the American's are waking up slowly.

I think of all Bush's mistakes, the torture, was the beginning of his (our) down fall. We have no moral ground to talk to anyone about any Human Rights Abuse issues, now.

If you lower yourself to the enemy, you have become the enemy. The MSM may try to divert OUR attention, but we are only a fraction of the world pop., and they all got the message.

It is amazing to to me, how low a supposed free society can sink in 5 yrs.

[muriel_volestrangler]

48. 'SSS'? Could you expand the acronym?

Otherwise you're calling a spade an 'S' ... ;-)

[Skip Intro]

14. And Gitmo is the "smaller" one. WTF are we (US under bush) doing?

WTF are we doing? We started doing this nearly four years ago. Secret prisons. In the name of freedom.

Hitler comparison, what Hitler comparison?

[femrap]

23. I wonder what country is the next 'sex trade' hub?

With every War, the Brothel Industry thrives....with Vietnam, it was Thailand. And look at Thailand today....'sex tour industry' has flourished.

So is it Turkey? Eastern Europe? Where is the 'R & R' for the soldiers in Iraq?

War is a disgusting business that mutates humans.

[druidity33]

49. smaller Gitmo...

i believe there is a smaller facility within Gitmo that deals with "closed session" prisoners as was the case with Abu Ghraib... probably run by MI too...

[bettyellen]

22. Wasn't the deadline for the abuse photos reset for this week?

oh heck, now i gotta dig it up.
it was today or wednesday. anybody hear of an appeal?

[shraby]

24. Someone on dailykos found this:

The government asks for an enlargement of time, beyond the thirty three days already given, within which to consider whether to file an appeal or to comply with the Opinion and Order of September 29, 2005. As I previously discussed, time is of the essence in a FOIA case. Am. Civil Liberties Union v. Dep't of Def., 339 F.Supp.2d 501, 505 (S.D.N.Y.2004) (Opinion and Order of September 15, 2004) (citing Ettlinger v. FBI, 596 F.Supp. 867, 879 (D.Mass.1984)). In my discretion, I grant one further enlargement to the government, to November 15, 2005.
SO ORDERED.
S.D.N.Y.,2005.
American Civil Liberties Union v. Department of Defense
--- F.Supp.2d ----, 2005 WL 2842071 (S.D.N.Y.)
END OF DOCUMENT

<http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/11/1/18481/7491>

It's almost at the bottom of the discussion.

[bettyellen]

27. excuse me, an enlargement? as if they ain't already snorting viagra.

they gonna explode from the next enlargement.
:rofl:

oh yes, thanks! i had heard it was this week.

[dchill]

28. If Bush grew a Hitler moustache...

and started wearing a swastika armband, the Republicans and the media would pooh-pooh any Nazi comparisons as shrill and manically overblown.

[sandnsea]

30. My leak's better than your leak

The CIA doesn't appear to be fuckin' around with old Georgie.

[RobertSeattle]

31. It up on Wapo Now

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/11/01/AR2005110101644.html

CIA Holds Terror Suspects in Secret Prisons
Debate Is Growing Within Agency About Legality and Morality of Overseas System Set Up After 9/11

By Dana Priest
Washington Post Staff Writer
Wednesday, November 2, 2005; Page A01

The CIA has been hiding and interrogating some of its most important al Qaeda captives at a Soviet-era compound in Eastern Europe, according to U.S. and foreign officials familiar with the arrangement.

The secret facility is part of a covert prison system set up by the CIA nearly four years ago that at various times has included sites in eight countries, including Thailand, Afghanistan and several democracies in Eastern Europe, as well as a small center at the Guantanamo Bay prison in Cuba, according to current and former intelligence officials and diplomats from three continents.

In Afghanistan, the largest CIA covert prison was code-named the Salt Pit, at center left above. (Space Imaging Middle East)

Detainees Database
The Pentagon has declined to identify the detainees at Guantanamo Bay, most of whom were captured in Afghanistan during and after the 2001 war there. The Post has compiled a list of names made public thus far, encompassing 434 men whose identities have appeared in media reports, on Arabic Web sites...

The hidden global internment network is a central element in the CIA's unconventional war on terrorism. It depends on the cooperation of foreign intelligence services, and on keeping even basic information about the system secret from the public, foreign officials and nearly all members of Congress charged with overseeing the CIA's covert actions.

[fooj]

33. OMG!

:cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:

[Jara sang]

34. Damn... that is fucked up.

[Oilwellian]

36. Wow. The dam of information is breaking

The powers that be are pissed. :D

[Stephanie]

38. Truth is busting out all over.

Remember that Novak column a few weeks ago where he complained that when he was at a double super top secret special meeting in Aspen, opinion had turned against the Chimp, and only noble Novak rose to defend him.

It's the economy, stupid. They can't let him run up these many bills. They had to cut the rope.

[eridani]

37. Was there some particular reason we fought the Cold War?

Because those damn Commies tortured their subjects, who had no legal redress, or something like that?

Not just Saddam's prison, but the gulags as well--Now Open Under New Management! What in heaven's name are we becoming?!?!?

[Elidor]

53. Oddly enough, when Francis Gary Powers was captured

He expected to be tortured by the Russians, but they treated him quite humanely. Obviously they were pissed about his mission, but they never beat him.

[Cults4Bush]

40. I believe one of those countries is Poland.

It would sure make sense regarding why Poland took to the Iraq war like it did.

42. cheney must admire the KGB

since they are emulating their practices. Ex-President Carter said on the Today show this morning that this administration is breaking practice with all other previous administrations of the last 100 years with its policies, pre-emptive war, destruction of environment, helping the rich and squashing the middle class. He said it isn't liberal versus conservative. It is this administration versus all previous administrations.

He has a new book "Endangered Values". The conservatives have sold their soul to the devil. Very Faustian.

[goforit]

46. He and H.W, are the KGB!!!

I do believe Past history has shown possible evidence of this.

[converted_democrat]

43. Holy crap, this shit just never ends............n/t

[Just Me]

44. Gulag?

shit x(

[goforit]

45. Hmmm......I wonder where the address is?

[spanone]

50. America is not MY America anymore......We must dump Bush*s

We have become the Taliban of democracy.

[Junkdrawer]

51. Front page image:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/print/asectionfrontimage.html

52. the ceiling looks like a halo over Reid's head n/t

[muriel_volestrangler]

54. Bush's lawless administration

They just don't think any rules or laws apply to them. They argue that there should be no restraint on the President for the sake of fighting a mythical 'war on terror'; that international law doesn't apply to them for invading Iraq; that they can expose their own country's agents and organisations for the sake of a partisan piece of name-calling, and it's just 'business as usual'; they can kidnap people from Asia, Africa and Europe and lock them up for ever where no-one sees what is done to them. They claim that neither Cuban nor American law applies to Guantanamo Bay.

Every member of the administration belongs in prison. Except we'd give them a fair trial, and allow independent officials to check they're not being sodomised for the guards' (or their bosses in the White House) kicks.

[atommom]

57. What a disgrace. We've GOT to get these criminals out of power.