Ever since the day I heard that a carbon fiber nano-tube no bigger

[HysteryDiagnosis]

than a human hair, actually, only a fraction the size of a human hair, had the tensile strength of around 100,000 pounds, yes, that is the weight of a fully laden tractor trailer, I wondered what brainstorms would come of it.... well here you go, a space "elevator", Einstein would be jealous no doubt.

http://www.space.com/businesstechnology/technology/space_elevator_020327-1.html
ALBUQUERQUE, NEW MEXICO -- Make way for the ultimate high-rise project: the space elevator. Long viewed as science fiction "imagineering", researchers are gathering momentum in their pursuit to propel this uplifting concept into actuality.

Still, the mental picture needed to grasp the elevator to space ideawell, you can't be weak of mind.

Forget the roar of rocketry and those bone jarring liftoffs, the elevator would be a smooth 62,000-mile (100,000-kilometer) ride up a long cable. Payloads can shimmy up the Earth-to-space cable, experiencing no large launch forces, slowly climbing from one atmosphere to a vacuum.

Earth orbit, the Moon, Mars, Venus, the asteroids and beyond - they are routinely accessible via the space elevator. And for all its promise and grandeur, this mega-project is made practical by the tiniest of technologies - carbon nanotubes.

Seen as an engineering undertaking for the opening decades of the 21st century

[Abelman]

1. This is pretty big news

the practical Applications of a space elevator for space travel are pretty high.

[vonslagle]

2. Normal elevators

Creep me out. I don't think I'd want to ride on one that goes out into space.

[melody]

4. No kidding. Yikes.

I'd have to put the space elevator on the same level of terror with teleportation (and glass space elevators? Forgetaboutit).

Welcome to DU, btw.

[Richard Steele]

24. Teleportation terror? Reminds me of this old ditty:

"I teleported home last night
with Bob, and Sue, and Peg....

Bob stole Peggy's heart away,
and I've got Suzies leg."

[melody]

25. I love it!

I've never heard that one. There's a short story by Stephen King about teleportation terror that always struck me as very apt. And I always sympathized with Dr. McCoy in the Trek films. lol

[northzax]

46. and lets not forget The Fly

spooky...

[Occulus]

28. Douglas Adams

"Restaurant at the end (sic) of the Universe"

[Richard Steele]

41. Thanks! nm

[Beam Me Up]

43. However that may be: BEAM ME UP!

This planet has gone NUTS. The Chimpansees and their ilk are totally out of control.

[karlrschneider]

49. There once was a fellow named Dwight

Who could travel much faster than light
He departed one day
In a relative way
And arrived on the previous night.

;-)

[iconoclastNYC]

64. The alternative is riding on a 60 foot tower of high explosives.

I'd take the elevator.

[HysteryDiagnosis]

5. Don't look down just took on a whole new meaning eh??? nt.

[mikehiggins]

3. What about wind resistance?

Just imagine a 6 mile high flag pole. Then multiply it by how much? The engineering concepts involved in this stagger the imagination. I really doubt it can/will be done but what a concept!

[Solo_in_MD]

7. The physics is pretty easy and achievable

Think of it as a rock on the end of the sting. The centrifical force keeps it taunt.

Jerry Pournelle and others were writing about space elevators quite some time ago.. The limiting item was the tensile strength of available material. Nanotubes may be enough, or maybe the next generation beyond it. It represents dramatically lower cost to get to orbital space.

[Richard Steele]

8. Not quite correct. Imagine a 6 mile high flagpole....

...which only experiences "wind"
across the bottom 100 feet of it's structure.

99% of the tether would be OUTSIDE the atmosphere.
And the many tons of mass swinging at the top would keep it very stiff
via centrifugal force.

It's my understanding that all these issues were actually
resolved (on paper) decades ago.
We've simply been waiting to develop a material strong enough
to build the cable.

Of course, none of this means that we are actually going to BUILD
such a project.
We COULD HAVE been launching payloads into orbit with EM railguns
back in the 1970s...but we don't.

[Solon]

17. Not that much of a problem, really...

Think of it as a cable, not a pole, first, like a suspension bridge, where it is supposed to flex and bend with the wind. Also, its stabilization would be managed by the Earth's spin plus the counterweight on the other end, centripetal force takes over from there, and most of it length is NOT through atmosphere at all.

[silverweb]

6. The stuff of imagination!

Arthur C. Clarke wrote a very good book called The Fountains of Paradise, first published in 1978, which was based on this very idea. If you enjoy science fiction at all, it's a great read and certainly seems a plausible idea for the future.

[TheWraith]

10. Clark was also arguably the inventor of the communications satellite.

He was, as I recall, the first person to propose placing a satellite into a geosynchronous orbit for use as communications platform.

I can't wait for the day when using a space elevator is going to be as common as a commuter flight from DC to Boston.

[tridim]

11. If I remember correctly, wasn't his cable made of diamond filament?

Although that might have been from 2063.

I need to read his stuff again.

[silverweb]

13. I don't remember.

I just know his cable was also so fine as to be invisible and the story was well put together. I get a real kick out of seeing the technology in old scifi novels becoming reality, though.

[Tesha]

19. Correct. (NT)

[tridim]

9. I'm trying to figure out how they'll "drop" the cable

No doubt they've thought about it already, but imagine unreeling the cable from the craft in orbit. Some lucky crew will get to be on the ground waiting to grab the cable as it drops from the sky. It's going to be really freaky to watch.

[HysteryDiagnosis]

12. Imagine it's wet and a million joules worth of lightning takes a bite

out of it.... now that's scary.

[Occulus]

31. The material conducts electricity

So could a strike be stored? Would it fry the ribbon?

[silverweb]

14. Very, very carefully.

:D

See Clarke's novel (post #6, above) for one version of how it could be done.

[Wilber_Stool]

40. As I recall

several attempts have been made to unreel a cable from a spacecraft. All have failed. They always break. I don't think anyone knows why either. I'll have to google it later.

[lumberjack_jeff]

51. If memory serves

The plan is to blast the 65k mile long reel of "cable" into space and unreel it in two directions simultaneously; down toward the earth and out to maintain centripetal force. The counterbalance then is used to aim the dangly end of the cable for anchoring.

Once the hair-thick cable is anchored, additional fibers are sent up the cable to reinforce it, and the counterweight moves in or out to maintain equilibrium.

Once the whole deal is built, interplanetary trips are a piece of cake. Since everything interesting in the solar system is on essentially the same plane, Just hop off the end of the cable at the right time carrying enough fuel to decelerate when you get where you're going.

Then Build down elevators on mars and the moon. No atmosphere so much easier.

Pretty cool. Makes you want to live to be 200.

[Richard Steele]

52. I'm guessing they'll need to design a specialized "reentry vehicle"...

..to hang at the bottom of the cable and steer it with thrusters as it descends.

All the math in the world wouldn't be enough to
simply unreel that thing in free-fall.
Any tiny variable could result in that unbreakable
cable whipping across the earths surface at 1000
miles an hour.
(That might actually make for some good "disater" SF stories.)

I'm also guessing they would do it in stages- land the
SMALLEST cable that could support its own weight,
then use that to lower (or lift?) additional strands.

That might actually make for some good "disater" SF stories.

[liberati]

15. Ummm..not that it's not still a cool idea or anything ...

but that article was written over 3 years ago.

But I agree that it's a fantastic idea. I just hope someone has what it takes to get it "off the ground" (so to speak!)

[HysteryDiagnosis]

16. Welcome to DU liberati.... hope you enjoy your stay.... :) nt.

[newyawker99]

18. Hi liberati!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[OxQQme]

20. In addition

the nano-tether could be 'collecting' the free electrons in our atmosphere and routing them down to a 'resevoir' and routed into the power grid for an un-limited supply of electricity.

[HysteryDiagnosis]

26. There you go thinking again..... shame on you!! Great idea.... nt.

[cantstandbush]

21. How about using it to resolve transporation problems here on earth? n/t

[Warren DeMontague]

34. How about using the $200 Billion we've blown in Iraq for that?

piddling little is spent on peaceful space exploration-- and it pays off like gangbusters in the long run--- but for some peculiar reason the mere mention of it always makes some people clutch their wallets.

[formercia]

22. To a geostationary orbit point

that's a long way without taking a pee.

[Loonman]

23. Space elevator is the way to go

Tons of fuel is wasted launching a ship from the surface.

[Johonny]

27. Why is this new news?

The idea has been around forever. It is not likely to ever happen.

[Occulus]

29. the only missing link to the engineering and construction process

was the manufacturing of the sheets of nano tubes. That's only recently been dealt with:

http://www.nature.com/news/2005/050815/pf/050815-8_pf.html

And so, the space elevator very likely will be something you or your kids will see. This was, according to some, the last great hurdle to be jumped.

(I can't begin to tell everyone here how huge an advance this is. If you think otherwise, just watch the video at the link.)

[northzax]

47. what's interesting about the Texas A&M work

is not the elevator, per se, there are 500 other applications I can think of on earth that are more reasonable and practical. The stuff is photovoltaic! imagine blinds on your windows that generate solar power, or even a nano covering on your entire house (it would be transparent, that can so the same. Your wall can become a HD screen, showing anything you want. Your car can generate enough power to augment the hybrid system to get you 150 miles to the gallon...imagine nano-device delivery of chemotherapy or radiation to tumors, and only to tumors...

of course, we have to get the stuff longer than a meter before then. it'll happen, eventually.

[Johonny]

48. Well

My kids are unlikely to see a nanotube long enough in their life time. It's simply easy to make nanotubes in a large jumble. It's much harder to make a single long isolated nanotube. But even if you could there are a lot of other problems associated with such a concept. We will be lunching using conventional rocket fuels long into the future.

[Tesha]

39. And if man were meant to fly, he'd have wings! (NT)

[Warren DeMontague]

60. If man weren't meant to fly...

God wouldn't have invented the Airplane.

[nolabels]

30. The Tower of Babel has raised it's foolishness again

What the hell do we need to go to outer space for, we can't even get along on earth :shrug:

[Warren DeMontague]

33. Yeah, shit, why did we even come out of those caves?

Why bother to leave your house? Why get out of bed in the morning? Why ask questions? Why explore? Why be alive?

And clearly, the way forward is the way back.. 3 Billion neo-luddite fundamentalists of every science-hating stripe can't be wrong... right? Man, all we need is candles, burquas, butter churns, and enough professional inquisitors to minister vice and virtue... and we could really return to that paradise which was the 14th century.


But, since you asked... HERE'S THREE VERY BIG REASONS (although not the only ones) WHY WE NEED TO GO TO OUTER SPACE:

Knowledge

Understanding

and

Perspective

[nolabels]

37. Mostly I don't leave my house much (he he)

Knowledge is only good if you can understand how to use it

Understanding is only good if you worry about your surroundings

Perspective is only good if you perceive yourself not be the ruler of the universe you perceive

The guy foisted as the POTUS really to me just seems a figurine that symbolizes global corporate control. He seems impervious or immune to all three of them ideas or reasons being searched for. Which leads me to conclude something has been missed and unaccounted for. Forgive me for the presumption but it seems the ancient greek philosophers had much up on us when it comes to reason

It's been said that hammer can be destructive or constructive, a tool, weapon, a collectors item or even thing of drudgery to the slave or prisoner conscripted to busting rocks. The perception you, I or anybody else has may or may not be the same, that is what makes the challenge not the rocks in the sky

on edit, I am not too good with that first person - third person English stuff

[Warren DeMontague]

59. Something has certainly been missed AND unaccounted for

it's called critical thinking, and the gang in charge doesn't trust it- just like they don't trust science.

I'm all for 'solving our problems here on Earth', but I find it interesting that the agitation to do the same only seems to come up in conjunction with discussions regarding peaceful exploration of space.. (ever notice that EVERY news story about NASA comes with a price tag? like, the "thirty million dollar space telescope needs more repairs". Funny, when they talk about stealh bombers ($1 Billion each) or cruise missiles ($1 million each) blowing people up they somehow always forget to include the taxpayer cost...)

I dare say we could go a long way towards solving some of those problems if we re-prioritized. Stop spending ten times as much as everyone else combined on a bloated military industrial complex, Stop blowing 40 billion a year to keep people from smoking pot, to name a couple, and you might go a long way towards being able to fund a SPHC system or a manhattan-style project to develop clean, renewable energy sources... For a moment, lets look at some of these things in terms of investment and return. The returns on our investment in, say, the highest rate of incarceration of non-violent offenders in the industrialized world, or our investment in the Iraq war, have been abysmal- unless you count massive amounts of human suffering as the desired outcome. The return on our -comparatively meager- investment in the Hubble Space telescope, in contrast (or, actually, in any scientific, knowledge-gaining venture brought to us by NASA) is incredible by comparison. In terms of real-world, tangible results (remember what I was saying about clean, renewable energy?) the Space Program has brought us hydrogen fuel cells. Microprocessors. Satellite communication. In a more esoteric sense, I posted a picture of the Earth because I believe images like that- and the perspective which allows people to instantly grok that we all share one tiny, fragile, living globe, have done more to unify the mind of man than thousands of years of religions obstensibly preaching 'peace' which are all too often excuses to kill large numbers of people while hectoring them about their sex lives.

JMO, of course.

[Solon]

38. Actually, there are many things that a space elevator, or more than...

one, hopefully, can accomplish to actually improve life on Earth. First things first, our traditional way of reaching space is horrendiously expensive, it costs upwards of 10 to 20 grand for a single kilogram of material to be sent to Low Earth Orbit on Titan and other heavy lift rockets. A LOT more money on a Space Shuttle. A space elevator can reduce the cost 10 times or more, and as such, you can lift loads that are many times larger, for a cheaper cost, and more frequently as well.

A couple of uses I can think of right off the bat, being able to transport into geosyncronous orbit, satelites to power our electrical grids, the Japanese are already experimenting with orbiting solar panels that would orbit over a single point on Earth that would power electrical grids for entire continents. Another service such elevators could provide is cheap, easy, access to the Moon, where there is an abundance of He3, an Isotope of Helium that will make fusion reactors much easier to fuel. Other things could also take place, especially in space, that are hard to do here. For example, the construction of orbital factories for constructing spaceships, fabricating electronics, chemicals, and other things, without worrying over enviromental effects in the vacuum of space.

The possibilities are endless, and worthwhile, other things that could be helpful include food production, mining of materials from Near Earth Objects, along with harvesting hydrogen, water, and other elements from comets and other celestial bodies. etc. etc.

[nolabels]

42. Humans are horrendously inefficient at managing resources

or improving the management of them resources. If the knowledge and technology that the world already has was applied to our present food, housing and transportation production the need to many our ills in society could be solved. We all have that genetic disposition for conflict and wars for resources are more for control than the actual elements for them. Our markets our structured on scarcity and not efficiency or effectiveness at the goods or services sought.

I am not sold on that one magic bullet for anything for we already have many and most of them have been steadily brushed away for some new one for a variety of reasons. One of these strong traits for brushing things aside is that it is not sexy or alluring being cooperative and cohabited. There are many others to be sure but to make the point that it is more emotion that drives us than it is rationality of getting it done.

I am not no fundie but their is much logic to be gleamed from all realms and philosophy's of life. Religions have many facets and reasons for their being, harnessing the human spirit and survival are just a couple of them. The idea of feeding masses with a few loaves of bread and a fish or two is that belief in itself that efficiency can fill all our bellies is not lost but often misunderstood. If science were the single correct answer we should be getting close to nirvana just about now.

I share idea of needing efficiency, it's just we are not even using the implements of efficiency we all ready have

[Greyhound]

55. How about the long term survival of the species?

Forget all the incredible things that are discovered any time we do pure research for some 'impractical' project. Even if *Co. doesn't destroy our ecosystem it is inevitable that the earth will receive another dinosaur killer impact or similar other terrestrial disaster.
We are explorers. Always have been, always will be. It is necessary to our mental well-being. If we're still stuck in the cradle we will die, period.
Or how about the manufacturing potential of zero gravity? The construction materials and pharmaceuticals that can only be produced outside of the influence of the gravity well? Cheap access to unlimited energy? The list is endless.

[Skelington]

56. If nobody had ever got into a ship, the world would still be flat.

If nobody had bothered to explore space, it is very unlikley that you and I would be talking on the "internets".

[Warren DeMontague]

32. ...But to believe that, you not only have to accept the Devil's "science"

You might even have to call into question the flatness of the Earth.

And won't Jesus be mad when a big, honkin' elevator full of astronauts rides up on a bunch of nanotubes into his holy angelic board meeting?.. (you know, the one where he's planning his smiting of Dover, PA-- for kicking God out of Science Class?)

[symbolman]

35. The one model I had been introduced to as a kid

and I don't know who the scientist was, but it was mathed out, etc..

was a "Walking dual cable" with an axis in space and two ends that would "stride" across the earth as the unit rotated on it's axis up there somewhere..

It was a cool concept, from our vantage point we would see something approaching and fill it (like a freight container) up as it moved across the earth and then it would move back up and out into space while we waited for the next "end" to enter the docking area..

Nice to make a "pinwheel" like that so that there'd be a series of "rooms" or "containers" to be filled up continually as they swept through the atmosphere..

according to what I was reading they wouldn't be moving that fast, so as to avoid friction, so you could load them up and then sit back and wait for the next one..

shit, I'm 53 and all I've ever wanted to do was see the whole planet with no fences or lines all over it, a living breathing Gaia - a lot of the first astronauts were about my age when they went into space and hell, if an nearly 80 year old man can do it I guess I still have time :)

THIS is what WE are supposed to be doing, not killing each other over DIRT.. maybe something this small can create a larger, more nobler path for humanity.. we're earth SEEDS and are supposed to spread across the universe, not sit here and ROT..

Like Arthur C. Clarke once said, "we should move all the factories into space, and turn the Earth into a PARK.." :)

[Warren DeMontague]

36. What they obviously don't realize

is that, in this country, at least, it's not the "21st century".. Too many people here are mentally stuck somewhere between 1310 and 1963.

[Beam Me Up]

44. Politically, you are correct. But they understand the need for control of

the ultimate "high ground." They are militarizing space. Why worry about the soldiers necessary to occupy 'nations of interest' when you can put their populations and leadership under the threat of pin-point bombardment from an unassailable orbiting platform?

Reduce the global population. Establish an economic cast system society maintained by fear and superstition. Control all forms of communication.

Welcome to the Evil Empire of the 21st Century.

[jokerman93]

45. Uh-Uh...

not gonna happen. Not at this juncture...

--Poppy

;-)

[Beam Me Up]

53. :thumbsup:

[jokerman93]

54. Hey!

I like yer art man.

[pitohui]

50. well i gotta an engineering project for em

right here on earth

if we can't even rebuild a city built in the 1600s may i humble suggest that we don't have the resources to worry abt getting into outer space where every aspect of the environment would have to be provided

the dutch and german engineers have come, they have said the only problem w. protecting new orleans is political, because the technology is there to do it, the dutch prime minister said that the return on such an investment would be huge and the ultimate cost to the taxpayer would be pennies on the dollar returned for the investment because of the oil and gas, port, and other industries

i posted a link to the story and it sank to the bottom like a stone

so sell me no space elevators to nowhere

we can't even do what the dutch did in the 1950s because usa is freakin too cheap to make a smart investment, we have a potential to protect trillions of dollars in future industry, we have the example of the dutch who have done it and can show that the pennies they pay for levee protections pay back dollars...and congress is still sitting on its thumbs

[Fescue4u]

57. 62,000 mile elevator trip

Heck even at supersonic speeds, its still a 62 hour ride.

This will be done eventually, but it'll decades, proably centurys away and when completed it'll be greatest engineering feat in the history of mankind.

IMO, this sort of technology is essential for any large colonization efforts on Mars or the moon. Put an elevator on both planets, and then send shuttles designed only for interplanetary travel. Since they wouldnt need to leave or enter the atmosphere, such shuttles could be very efficient and could be designed to accomodate long duration trips (think spinning wheels etc)

[unpossibles]

58. cool article

while I understand the idea of "let's fix things here first" we should also not turn our backs on technology and the fact that one breaktrough can lead to many others.

[Mutley]

61. Cool! Sounds a bit like the space elevator in

Space Odyssey:3001 (except that was made with diamond :silly: ). I'd ride it, and I'm afraid of heights!

[OxQQme]

62. Get your kicks on Route 66

GoogleEarth:

35d 06' 37" N 111d 58' 15" W = Grand Canyon

35 05 15 N, 101 43 29 W = Amarillo

35 09 47N, 103 42 54W = Tucumcari

35 00 58N, 110 41 44W = Winslow

35 53 07N, 96 06 34W = Tulsa

38 36 41N, 90 12 01W = St. Louis

[OxQQme]

63. We wouldn't be having this conversation

without technological advancement.
I grew up in Los Angeles pre-freeways, pre-deisel trains, pre-bus, lol even pre-McDonalds.
What a long strange trip it's been.
MagLev trains would be a better right-now investment than a space elevator. But I hope the researchers don't stop expirimenting with nano's. Perhaps nano will be the foundation of the 'rails'.

nanoo nanoo