Just watched Fahrenheit 9/11 for about the 5th time.

[Tim4319]

I remember a lot of rethugs were saying it was all propaganda, and how things weren't true. The question I have is, how can this be all propaganda, when Michael Moore presented a lot of video footage to support is findings?

[BrklynLiberal]

1. As the time goes by and more is revealed , you see how much of it is

true!!
Just as when you watch "Bowling for Columbine" you realize how right he was about this administration ruling by fear!!!

[proud2BlibKansan]

2. It tells a story they don't want to hear

That's all there is to it.

The only criticism I heard that made any sense was about a newspaper headline he showed. Turns out the story portrayed in that newspaper headline wasn't on the front page, as depicted. But it was still in that paper and Michael Moore hadn't changed it at all.

Other than that, their complaints are not legit.

[DougieZero]

3. I'm a fan... but

I understand some of his critics... some of his tactics are suspect. I like his films, but I think of him as a satirist and like an op-ed put on film.

I'm from the area where he grew up and have met him before. I own all his books and films.

[Tim4319]

4. Just curious.

What was it about his tactics you find suspect? Not trying to be a "smarty pants" just curious to find out what was so suspect about the information he used in his film.

[gumby]

5. I understand some of his critics too.

They are a bunch of LYING, cheating, thieving totalitarians who will say ANYTHING to destroy any issue or any fact or anyone who stands in their way of total world domination by any means possible.

[La Coliniere]

9. You got that right, Gumby!

I'd also call them fascists. I'm equally disturbed by Dem whiners who don't approve of Moore's editorial skill. Like, what's up with that? I consider Moore a true Freedom Fighter.

[LostinVA]

18. Yup, a bigger bunch of liars and side-steppers I've never seen

And my BIL is one of them...

[earth mom]

10. Wow...your post sounds straight outta freeperville...

:grr:

BTW...the freeper argument that Moore slanted anything or made up anything is PURE & TOTAL B.S. :puke:

[DougieZero]

11. oh stop it...

michael moore isn't my personal freedom fighter... i can think for myself.

listen... i'm not going to play the opposite game. if the freepers and neocons deeply hate michael moore, i'm not going to praise and defend him no matter what... i've been a fan since the 80's and have read and watched ALL of his work.

some things don't pan out for me... he has taken some creative licence to explain a point (IE: Vietnam plaque in Bowling, various edits). other liberal critics like roger ebert have pointed this out, but still given great reviews.

i generally like what i see and agree with him most of the time.

/chill

[earth mom]

13. EVERYTHING in Fahrenheit 911 rang true to me...

that was my gut reaction. This isn't about praising Moore "no matter what". I don't play that game. I didn't agree with your "satirist/op-ed" comment whatsoever since it struck me as something I've heard before from rethugs at a mixed board I used to post on before I came to DU.

Before 9/11, I cared less about politics and so I'm not on a mission about taking sides and all that jazz. I'm more interested in ethics-aka right and wrong. Sure politically I'm on the left, but I've often spoken out about the corruption on both sides of the political fence around here. Corruption that needs to be exposed or we will never get anywhere and the middle class and poor will continue to get the shaft from the elites in DC and Corporate America.

Michael Moore is doing just that. And the elites on both sides of the fence don't like it one damn bit.

[WilliamPitt]

32. Crap post

Boo.

[earth mom]

35. Exactly what are you talking about?

That it's not okay for me to point out that I think that guys post was freeperish? Did you even read what I posted in reply to him the second time? If you agree with him, I guess that means you feel that Fahrenheit 9/11 was pure satire or an op-ed instead of a documentary. Sorry, but I consider Moore an American Hero. I'm not gonna sit around and watch some guy come around and slam him just like they do at freeperville 24/7.

Hope your post to me made you feel better, since I really think it was personal rather than you siding with that guy. After all, such a good writer as yourself-and I do believe that even though we have different points of views on many topics around here-should be able to do a lot better presenting your point of view than the short mean spirited post you sent my way.

[WilliamPitt]

36. Any post made

that terms something you disagree with as freeperish is, by definition, a crap post.

It didn't deserve more than that. Still doesn't. Do better next time.

[HysteryDiagnosis]

6. I like MM and his work.... he exposes what "they" don't want you to

see/hear. I hope he continues to work on projects that need to be done.... go MM... you are an asset to the community.... don't ask what this is, you don't want to know.

[B Calm]

12. Damn... why did you post the picture for. Now I have to know

what the hell it is!

[HysteryDiagnosis]

14. Let's just say that it is YOUR TAX DOLLARS at work in South

Florida... and it doesn't seem as if they were well spent now does it.

[B Calm]

16. What are they using to brace that yellow pipe up? Looks like

what truckers use(load locks)in the back of their semi trailer to keep the product from falling over during transport.

[HysteryDiagnosis]

17. Let's just say that I helped install all that crap, they are conveyors

which are supposed to haul all the "shrubberies" that grow in the canals (mainly due to the fact that there is so much FOOD in the water for them to eat) (which is mainly due to the fact that the pump stations move the gd water at such an amazing clip when they are running full ahead) and the best thing they do is get clogged up with stringy frigging "water shrubberies".

Try pulling them out of these contraptions for a full day and see how your back feels.... standing on the rungs, pulling on a potato rake handle for all you are worth... ahhhhhh the utter frigging nonsense I have been witness to and subjected to by the enlightened minds of so called "engineers". Morons.

[B Calm]

19. Another engineering marvel, ha ha.. Have you heard...

An engineering student was riding his new bicycle around campus. He stopped to talk to a friend who was another engineering student. His friend asks, where did you get the new bicycle? He replies, oh you’ll never believe it. Yesterday this beautiful blond came up to me riding this new bicycle. She jumped off her bicycle, took off all her clothes, and says to me, take whatever you want. So I took the bicycle. His friend replies, good choice, the clothes probably wouldn’t have fit you anyway....

[HysteryDiagnosis]

33. Ahhhhhhh..... now that's funny, good one!! Thanks for the laugh. nt.

[shance]

7. You're assuming they would give an honest rebuttal like you would

The truth isn't their goal my friend like it is for you. They don't care about the truth.

In fact many of them despise the truth and run from it like the plague.

For many, suppressing, denying and blocking the truth from coming to light is their goal.

So they will say whatever will stop the truth from coming out, because they are afraid of the truth.

Of course some in our government are afraid because they are involved.

[Emit]

8. Living with a Republican

Who was into documentary videography in college and still has a good friend who does documentaries...I bring this perspective on behalf of the Moore critics I encountered:

FYI, I purposefully did not see Fahrenheit 9/11 until after the (s)election last year as a promise more to myself than to my spose to ensure that I wasn't being mislead by left-wing propaganda.

I've been told that it was more a matter of lack of objectivity on Moore's part that made the film less an objective piece than a subjective criticism of Bush & Co. Therefore, for some critics, categorizing it as a documentary was the real problem. IOW, Moore went into it with a preconceived intent, going in with the same perspective as he came out of it with, which is not how most objective documentaries are done.

Also, these same folks tell me that Moore's tone and juxtaposing of certain footage, again, was subjective, and therefore, is truly not what a documentary is supposed to be about.

Not that I have a problem with Moore and the film..nor did my spouse, really .... Once I finally saw it, having read a lot of what Moore had put into the film on my own previously, I saw nothing in it that was untrue, per se. And, yes, I spent many hours arguing my perspective against not only my spouse, but my spouse's rather arrogant, but nonetheless very intelligent (and a person I dearly love and respect), videographer friend. BTW, neither were Bush supporters.

[proud2BlibKansan]

20. Moore NEVER claimed to be making an objective piece

NEVER.

[Emit]

22. I think their arguments were based on the fact that

his film was categorized as a documentary--wasn't it? And documentaries are, by definition, supposed to be objective.

[proud2BlibKansan]

24. Yeah whatever

I still thought it was a great film.

[Emit]

27. Yeah. Me, too. n/t

[Bouncy Ball]

26. Eh?

Here's a definition of documentary:

"A work, such as a film or television program, presenting political, social, or historical subject matter in a factual and informative manner and often consisting of actual news films or interviews accompanied by narration."

He presented the work in a factual and informative manner and used actual news films or interviews and accompanied it with narration.

That's how it's a documentary.

[Emit]

28. Moore defines it as such

Is "Fahrenheit 9/11" a Documentary?

"Of course it's a documentary, it's a non-fiction film, it's a documentary," emphasized Michael Moore, during a conference call with a group of journalists earlier this week. "Documentaries by their very nature are supposed to have a point of view. The word has also been used over the years -- from 'NBC White Paper' to any of a number of forms of documentary. My form of doc is an op-ed piece. It presents my opinion that's based on fact. I am trying to present a view of the last three-and-a-half years that I don't feel has been presented to the American public."

And others agree:

"Yes, 'Fahrenheit 9/11' is a doc," noted Ira Deutchman, an indie veteran who was a founder of Fine Line Features, "Michael Moore is just pushing the envelope further away from the pretense of reality that people usually associate with documentaries."

Morgan Spurlock agreed, saying, "Many people have seemed to jump on the bandwagon that once a documentary becomes subjective or presents an obvious point of view from the director then it is no longer a documentary. I do not agree, for I believe that the very act of filmmaking, whether fictional or non-fictional, is filled with subjective decisions made on the part of the director for the betterment of his/her piece. Just because you are presenting facts and crafting an honest storyline does not completely remove the involvement of one's viewpoint from a project... we knowingly make decisions in the edit room that can effect the audience's reaction."



Shola Lynch's doc about a black congresswoman from Brooklyn who made a bid for the presidency in 1972, "Chisholm '72: Unbought & Unbossed" debuted at Sundance this year.
"Chisholm" director Lynch said, "It is a documentary that is a well structured and thought provoking story. Rather than being contextual in approach, it is dialoguing with Americans that have a context for understanding 9/11, the Iraq War, and the Bush administration. I think Michael Moore's motivation is that he believes Americans are not being given the whole story. The documentary is meant to fill in the gaps. In other words, the audience is bringing a lot to the table in terms of the broader context for a fuller understanding."

But others disagree. This is almost verbatim, the criticism that my friend, the videographer used when critiquing Fahrenheit:

SXSW's Dentler had this to say: "It's also borderline propaganda, just like a newspaper's endorsement for a politician during an election. No matter how important I feel the message is, and no matter how much I agree with it, it's hard to look at the film as objective." Dentler added that he liked the film and agreed that it is a documentary. "Historical documentaries or 'talking head' pieces should tell both sides of the story, both sides of the history. And, in a sense, 'Fahrenheit' tries to portray itself as a historical doc, but it's really closer to propaganda. I think a very key point of this is how the film credits Michael Moore as the writer, a credit (that) documentaries rarely feature."

Braun said, "'Fahrenheit 9/11' is a documentary like 'Super Size Me' and 'Jackass' are documentaries. They are non-fiction narrative films that skillfully manipulate reality for the sake of truth, entertainment, and a satisfying narrative structure, not always in that order."

http://66.102.7.104/search?q=cache:0cQt77g9CxMJ:www.indiewire.com/onthescene/onthescene_040702docs.html+is+fahrenheit+9/11+a+documentary&hl=en


Like I said in a previous post, I put up a good argument, and actually became quite adamant in supporting Moore. We finally agreed to disagree.

But, seeing as my spouse took a similar position in critiquing the film (will to this day say it's more propaganda than documentary), I have had subsequent, more rational and less heated discussions about the matter. I can see their point, now, in that it's not exactly the kind of dry documentary one might be used to watching on PBS. It does have an edge, tone and bias to it that is more prominent than what traditional documentaries might have, no?

[savemefromdumbya]

15. Moore didn't say enough in the movie

maybe he will make a part 2.

[Hippo_Tron]

21. I don't take Micahel Moore's movies as absolute fact

Because I would be guilty of the same thing as those who listen to Lumbaugh and say that he is 100% right. F 9/11 was dead on about some things as was Bowling for Columbine. There were other moments where I think you have to take some of it with a grain of salt, which I would hope that most people watching his movie are smart enough to do.

Was there anything OUTRAGEOUS in that movie like the right-wings claims? I couldn't find anything.

[sampsonblk]

23. Wish it could be re-released

Maybe in a box set or something to get publicity. Now is the PERFECT time for F-9/11 to resurface.

[Bouncy Ball]

25. Remember Moore offered some HUGE reward if anyone

could prove ANYTHING he said in that film to be factually incorrect?

No one EVER claimed it.

He and his crew used a fine-toothed comb on every single statement in the film, backwards and forwards.

I just don't see how anyone can watch it that many times. I saw it twice in the theater then once or twice on DVD, but it's been a while. It's too damn depressing to watch anymore.

[alphafemale]

29. There is an "F 9-11 Reader" As I recall it has all the footnotes...

references and everything.

[truthnproof]

30. Here's A Treasure Trove Of Free Political Videos

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.cerebellumink.com/pentagon1.php

Painful Deceptions

He breaks down 9/11 in a way I haven't seen it done. There is so much proof here - MUST SEE!!


www.lastingnetworks.com/alex/



NEW!!! MATRIX OF EVIL
Matrix of Evil contains footage from speeches and conversations with Alex Jones, Congressman Ron Paul, Colonel Craig Roberts, Congresswoman Cynthia McKinney and Frank Morales


Police State 3: Total Enslavement
The events of Sept 11th mark the initiation of the final sick push of the illuminati to consolidate their one world order and transform earth into a prison planet.

In over two and a half hours, Alex Jones chronicles in stunning detail the true character of the globalists. Learn the master plan of the blood-thirsty elite to financially, physically and spiritually imprison not only America but the world


911: The Road to Tyranny (VHS)
The dark forces of Global Government are funding, training and protecting terrorist groups worldwide. Watch the entire film free online and then purchase the VHS/DVD version to make copies and get the word out.


NEW!!! THE MASTERS OF TERROR (VHS)
Alex documents the Globalists' execution of the September 11 attacks in what should be regarded as a sequel to 9/11 TRTT.


POLICE STATE II: THE TAKEOVER
Alex Jones exposes the Problem-Reaction-Solution paradigm being used to terrorize the American people into accepting a controlled and oppressive society. This video was made prior to 9/11, it documents government preparation for a police state.


POLICE STATE 2000 - ALEX JONES EXPOSES THE GROWING MILITARIZATION OF AMERICAN LAW ENFORCEMENT AND THE GROWING RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN THE MILITARY AND POLICE. This was made prior to PS II.


Comprehensive Annual Financial Reports Exposed
This film exposes the two-tiered accounting of all federal, state and county governments. There is no reason for continued taxation. Full video in two parts.


America: Destroyed by Design
Available for the first time online - the full version. Alex travels the country to witness the UN environmental takeover. Also includes Alex's infamous Austin thumbscanning protest and arrest.

http://store1.yimg.com/I/infowars-shop_1788_208086
America: Wake Up or Waco
This video documents how the U.S. Government grossly overstepped Constitutional Boundaries, as well as the cover up that followed with the Branch Davidians in Waco, Texas.


Dark Secrets Inside Bohemian Grove
Nixon, Eisenhower, and Reagan were members. The Bush Family Maintains a Strong Involvement. Now, for the First Time in History, Alex Jones Brings You Video from His Infiltration of Bohemian Grove. View the Elite Compound and Witness World Leaders Conducting a Bizarre, Occult Ritual, Worshipping a Giant Stone Owl Idol.


The Money Masters
Bill Still (3.5 hours - Volumes 1 & 2)
View online
Historical documentary that traces the origins of the political power structure that rules our nation and the world today. Nation after nation, including America, has fallen prey to a cabal of international central bankers.

Their vast accumulation of wealth concentrates immense power and despotic economic domination in the hands of the few central bankers "who are able to govern credit and its allotment, for this reason supplying, so to speak, the life-blood to the entire economic body, and grasping, as it were, in their hands the very soul of the economy so that no one dare breathe against their will." A worldwide tyranny is gradually being imposed, hidden to most, by THE MONEY MASTERS."


Exposed: The Carlyle Group
VPRO Netherlands TV

Shocking documentary uncovers the subversion of Americas democracy. The Carlyle Group is a private investment bank which doesn't come to the publics attention very often but it is one of the biggest American investors of the defense industry, telecom, property and financial services Many well known and powerful people have money in this group, including the Bush family.


Former German Defense Minister Confirms CIA Involvement in 9/11: Alex Jones Interviews Andreas Von Buelow
Download Audio Clip MP3 Format
Von Buelow is the former German Defense Minister and Minister of Technology. Von Buelow went public to say the US government carried out 9/11. His book is one of the bestsellers across Europe.

Read the transcript of the interview at http://www.prisonplanet.com/021104vonbuelow.html


13 Bloodlines Of The Illuminati by Fritz Springmeier

This is a lecture given before The Prophecy Club. The video is low bandwidth and black and white but it's good for people with slow Internet connections. The audio is fine.

Right click links below to download (2 parts)
http://www.prisonplanet.tv/13bloodlinespart1.wmv

http://www.prisonplanet.tv/13bloodlinespart2.wmv

You can purchase the book Bloodlines of the Illuminati by going to http://www.store.yahoo.com/infowars-shop/blofil.html
.


OTHER VIDEO DOWNLOAD SITES
See http://www.prisonplanet.com/video.html for more videos!

See http://www.c0balt.com/resources/911/download.shtml

See http://www.911review.org/Wget/www.thedossier.ukonline.co.uk/video.htm

http://www.activeopposition.com/audio-video.htm

http://www.propagandamatrix.com/multimedia.html

http://www.freedomfiles.org/movies/


These videos (and, audio) tell you ALOT about the madness.

Watch the“Reasonable Doubts 911” video. Download it free:
http://www.indybay.org/uploads/reasonabledoubts911.mp3

9/11-The Road To Tyranny Realease III - This movie proves that Geroge Bush planned 9/11 and does an excellent job at explaining why.
http://www.indybay.org/uploads/the_road_to_tyranny__34kbps_.ram

(I think THIS one talks about the FBI blowing the Oklahoma building - This video is from Vision TV)
http://www.indybay.org/uploads/visiontv1dial-up.rm


This is a SERIOUS expose' video - MUST SEE:

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article3995.htm


It starts out slow but, after the first 10 minutes of explaining WHO the Carlyle group is, it gets serious and it shows exactly WHY we're in Iraq.

And, it teaches you alot of things. I seldom see anything of this political nature that teaches me anything new - this is full of things I didn't know and you just have to see it.

Cynthia McKinney is in there, telling the behind the scenes dirt. etc.

This will chill you to the core once you see the connections and powerplayers and the corruption.



VoiceOfAmerica
VIDEO's - GOVT. DIDn't WANT YOU TO SEE - Franklyn Conspiracy
Mon May 24, 2004 14:41
202.56.233.130

THESE ARE THE VIDEOS NEVER AIRED BY DISCOVERY CHANNEL. COVER-UPS...LIES...DECEIT....

EVERY AMERICAN SHOULD SEE THIS.

PART 1 -
http://www.thelawparty.org/UnlockedMedia/MediaPlayer/FranklinCoverup/conspiracyofsilence2_chunk_1.wmv


PART 2 -
http://www.thelawparty.org/UnlockedMedia/MediaPlayer/FranklinCoverup/conspiracyofsilence2_chunk_2.wmv


PART 3 -
http://www.thelawparty.org/UnlockedMedia/MediaPlayer/FranklinCoverup/conspiracyofsilence2_chunk_3.wmv


PART 4 -
http://www.thelawparty.org/UnlockedMedia/MediaPlayer/FranklinCoverup/conspiracyofsilence2_chunk_4.wmv

[newyawker99]

34. Hi truthnproof!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[upi402]

31. why let facts get in the way of a perfectly good opinion?

jeebus cripes!
:shrug: