I've changed my mind on the "Tookie" debate.

[Redstone]

Though I've still no brief whatsoever for murderers, I think (just being pragmatic) that American society would benefit from keeping him alive and letting him continue his work.

Greatest good for the greatest number, and all that.

Redstone

[Tace]

1. Way Cool That You've Changed Your Mind

for whatever reason.

[Redstone]

4. He damaged society by what he did (founding that gang), and

society should let him pay back as much as he can.

There are meltdowns out there on Death Row who deserve to ride the lightning, because the only way to keep them from killing more people, or molesting more kids or whatever, is to remove, permanently, their ability to do so.

But this guy is doing good work to try to redress his wrongs. God will get him for the evil he's done in the end, but if he can keep even a few kids from turning into gangbangers in the interim, we should let him do so.

Redstone

[TomInTib]

5. I have no problem with the death penalty but in this case..

I think Tookie can do more good alive than dead. I do believe the better good outweighs comeuppance.

[nofurylike]

13. "let him pay back as much as he can." yes! he is truly dedicated to that.

[goclark]

2. Yea for you Redstone, I admire your honesty

and your decision.

[panader0]

3. My ideas about the penal system

I think the prisoners should support themselves. Whether through some industry or agriculture I'm sure inmates could, should and would benefit from paying their own way.

[spindrifter]

6. Here are some things to ponder:

In Washington State prisoners were earning money in a variety of prison industries. Unfortunately, this conflicted with some unionized businesses. Consequently, those enterprises had to go.
Another problem--wages for prisoners are very low. Many owe huge amounts of restitution and other case-related financial obligations. Their earnings are applied--in large part to those obligations first.
Finally, please remember that there are a large number of people in prison who would like to work, but have psychological issues that interfere with that desire.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

7. Plus there are corporations that take advantage of prison labor because

it's so cheap. That's why the unions were upset. Companies were closing down plants paying a living wage because they could hire prisoners for peanuts.

How does that help anyone?

I'd be for work programs that actually trained prisoners for useful jobs on the outside.

The traditional "making license plates" and "breaking rocks" programs do nothing to prepare prisoners for life on the outside.

[hunter]

10. We should just kill them and sell their organs.

:sarcasm:

There is a long history of very bad things happening when prisoners are used as cheap labor.

[Swamp Rat]

8. Another practical reason, perhaps:

He could become a martyr and more deaths may result.

Personally, I am against the death penalty under any circumstance.

[Sapphire Blue]

9. ...

:hug:

[eridani]

11. Restorative justice movement motto

Crime is a wound; justice should be healing.

Tookie Williams has gone a long way toward atoning for his youthful crimes (which may or may not have included the crime he was sentenced to death for), and has the potential to do far more in this direction.

[nofurylike]

14. "Crime is a wound; justice should be healing." such balance! thank you

for that important lesson, eridani!

the Restorative justice movement looks fascinating and truly hope-inspiring, from what little i've learned of it. time to learn more, i see.


peace and solidarity!

[nofurylike]

12. i bow.

gratitude!