Please explain to me why the air marshals would have executed that man?

[MoonRiver]

I just don't see it. He was a mentally ill passenger, we know that. We do not know exactly what happened and whether he actually threatened to have a bomb. I concede that. But, for the life of me I cannot see how a conspiracy theory can be built on such a skimpy amount of information. WHY would the government single out this guy and gun him down in front of numerous witnesses? It just doesn't add up. Maybe the AMs made a colossal mistake. Maybe they did the correct thing under the circumstances. BUT MURDER?

[Lyle]

1. He probably.....

...was expressing his dissatisfaction with Bush, the war, or the PNAC. so, they silenced him. (LoL)

[MadisonProgressive]

2. Here we go again!

:eyes:

[havocmom]

3. Good question

Sometimes the knees jerk so bad I almost understand the phrase.

[Ezlivin]

4. If he was born-again, he'll be in the arms of the Lord

Otherwise he's in hell right now.

It's really his own fault for not preparing for eternity. He should have read the Left Behind series.

[Name removed]

5. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[MoonRiver]

9. That's my take. And it seems to be the most logical explanation.

But there has been such a brouhaha over this, with conspiracy theories cropping up like dandelions, I'd like to hear some rational arguments for what is not so obvious.

[SaveElmer]

6. Or maybe it was as they said...

How would the Air Marshal possibly know the man may have been mentally ill...look at it from their perspective...a guy on a plane claims to have a bomb in his bag...they try and stop him and he runs up the ramp trying to get into the terminal...what if he did have a bomb and they didn't stop him, and that bomb then went off in the terminal. I really do feel bad about it, and perhaps there needs to be some kind of change in procedure...but to say the Air Marshals committed murder is way out of line!

[MoonRiver]

10. I'm not saying it. Others have though.

Just trying to understand their point of view.

[ultraist]

7. I wonder if the AM was an over ambitious rookie?

Because it seems to me, he totally misread the situation.

It's pretty sad that our "trained professionals" cannot differentiate between a harmless, unarmed guy freaking out and an actual real threat. It doesn't instill much confidence in our security system.

I heard they shot the passenger three times. Was that really necessary?

I think it's odd that early on they did NOT think he had a bomb. If they had, they would not have parked the plane up to the gate. They would have parked it out isolated on the runway and had the bomb squad there. So, at what point did they think he had a bomb? After dealing with him for how long?

It will be interesting to hear all of the facts.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

14. You try it

In a split second, you make the psychiatric/psychological diagnosis that this guy was mentally ill or he was an actual threat.

Fuck it all - one life versus the lives of all the people on the plane and in the terminal?

Shoot him in the jetway, and don't think twice.

Hindsight, as they say, is always 20-20, especially in the eyes of those who weren't there and didn't have to do it.

[ultraist]

18. The dude was flipping out long before he ran off the plane

It wasn't a split decision. The AM should have restrained and cuffed him long before the guy had a chance to run off, BEFORE they even landed.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

23. It's so easy to say

what others "should have" done when you're thousands and miles and a day away from what really happened.

If he's flipping out, claiming to have a bomb, and I'm on that plane, I want the marshals to shoot him.

It's that simple.

[seabeyond]

26. well, then at this point we know your line of self preservation

and where you are willing to draw the line on the worth of another human being. you are clear and honest on this. i am not sure with information to this point, this would be my line

[Ladyhawk]

29. I'm going to have to agree with you.

There wasn't a lot of time to decide whether or not this guy was a threat.

I'm sure more facts will come out, but if you had a fraction of a second to decide, what would you do? From what I've read so far, the shooting was justified. The man said he had a bomb and reached into his bag. I think almost any cop would have shot him at that point.

[yellowcanine]

17. I think you are "Monday Morning Quarterbacking" from a comfy perch.

"It's pretty sad that our "trained professionals" cannot differentiate between a harmless, unarmed guy freaking out and an actual real threat. It doesn't instill much confidence in our security system."

Did it ever occur to you that an actual bomber might act like this to fool air marshals into thinking he was some harmless guy freaking out? And that there might even be a traveling companion there with him shouting that he is bipolar? They didn't have the luxury of conducting a psychological analysis. Even trained psychologists sometimes can't figure out if someone is homicidal or harmless when they are analyzing them for months on end. How do you think an air marshal is going to make that kind of assessment in several minutes?

If this guy was bipolar whoever was responsible for him should have made sure he was on his medications before letting him fly.

[yellowcanine]

8. The way I heard it is he ran off the plane and up the runway talking about

having a bomb. When confronted by the marshals instead of getting down on the ground he started reaching into the bag. If this is the actual sequence of events I don't see that the marshals had much choice. You can't exactly reason with someone who may be in the act of setting off a bomb. I don't see how you can call it murder or an execution. It obviously isn't either one if the events are as described.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

36. Based on more recent interviews of seven different passengers...

...that version is apparently not true. He didn't say anything to anyone on his way off the plane.

[seabeyond]

11. this isnt where i go with the argument. what i have seen over last

handful of years, is they readily go to the extreme. take down and out. with more and more people. seems to be consistant in military and civil police environment. this brings a fear, to the weak trigger finger. it makes me more wary. and watchful. i do not trust the people i should be able to trust.

i dont have to blame the soldiers, for the environment that was created for them. and i dont with the cops. i still am wary of all of them. i was just thinking about my flight to akumal, mexico in march. i am already not comfortable in the authority those i dont trust has over me, my body and my family.

[seabeyond]

13. btw, psych 101. this is how you break down a society to become

sheep. you make them wary of the powers that be, so they will become silent. so as not to rock the boat

[sasha031]

15. this morning on WBZ Boston

One of the passengers who was right there said, he did not hear the man say he had a bomb and claimed the man should never of been shot. i wish I had heard the entire segment or had a copy.(will try to locate it)

I have seen that woman on the idiot box that was in 1st class, she appears to be a bit delighted about all the action.....why are we not hearing from the other passengers!

[ultraist]

16. "consistent with military and civil police environment"

Yes, it is. That's undeniable.

Just like they beat the crap out of that 67 year old, unarmed guy in NOLA recently.

I'd like to hear WHY the Air Marshall wasn't able to throw the guy down and restrain him. WHY didn't he do this early on? Why did the passenger have a chance to run off the plane?

There are a lot of things that point to this AM not handling this situation well.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

24. Oh, for god's sake

Run TOWARDS some crazy man claiming to have a bomb?

You do it.

They handled it exactly as they should have handled it.

[seabeyond]

25. respectfully, i dont think you know this with the information we have

so far. a lot of people saying different things and not enough time to get to truth yet. or we aren't hearing it yet. i am willing to say, wait and see. before a definitive,

"They handled it exactly as they should have handled it."

[SammyWinstonJack]

35. Didn't they restrain the man in London and then shot him, while he was

restrained? Wasn't it assumed that he had a bomb also? These two incidents certainly have made me feel safer. :sarcasm:

[OldLeftieLawyer]

12. I fly a lot

And, believe me, no one jokes about having a bomb. I don't want them to, and if anyone does, I want that asshole dragged off MY plane in chains and a ball-gag.

In this instance, from all that I've seen and heard and read, I think the shooting was justified. I might be wrong, but no one cares what I think.

I care, though, that a plane wasn't blown out of the air. That's a chance I'm not willing to take. This poor man - if he was off his meds, that's really not my concern - got himself killed. It's a tragedy all the way around, but, as a frequent flier, I have no problem with anyone making that kind of threat anywhere near a plane being taken down.

Now, with this horrible incident having taken place, ask me how comfortable I feel flying, knowing that several tons of cargo are right underneath my feet and NO ONE KNOWS WHAT'S IN THEM.

Thanks, Homeland Security. Another "... heck of a job ...," right, Fuckface?

[ultraist]

28. Cuff and gag them before it escalates

I don't want them to, and if anyone does, I want that asshole dragged off MY plane in chains and a ball-gag.

That's precisely what they should have done with this guy, the moment he started to freak out. But they didn't. They allowed him to exit the plane, UN-CUFFED and un-gagged. It appears to me, this is where they fucked up, they didn't nip it in the bud. But of course we don't have all of the facts yet.

I was on a plane recently where some drunk asshole was yelling out rude comments. My first reaction was, they need to shut him the fuck up, right now, before he has a chance to escalate and start getting physical. They warned him and he did shut up but everyone was nervous the entire flight because we didn't know if this guy had actually regained his composure or was a ticking time bomb, so to speak. It's not fun to be captive in a plane with a drunk, obnoxious weirdo.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

30. That's right

I haven't seen anything that indicated that this guy was causing any kind of problem on his prior flight. All I've read and heard is that he flipped out as he was boarding his connecting flight, in the jetway.

At that point, the Air Marshals had to do what they did. They gave him an order, he ignored it, that was it.

He'd never have been allowed to board the connecting flight if he'd been acting out on the first leg of his journey, so I suspect it was pretty much as it's been reported. Tragic, but clear-cut.

[The Flaming Red Head]

19. Probably for the fun of it

It's hard to have all those toys and not use them sometimes. You know they went out for drinks and a party afterward.

[MoonRiver]

21. Please tell me you're being sarcastic.

Please!

[The Flaming Red Head]

31. Yes, I was being sarcastic

I thought it was obvious.

I think the whole episode was horrible and I have a hard time imagining that they didn't enjoy using their training.

Kind of a trial run.

They don't care who they kill, this is the US government.

[donsu]

20. thinking the same thing - how many bombers tell everybody they

have a bomb?

it's mental and angry people that say things like that.

fear mongering by the bushgang has all the cops trigger happy. and south Fl. cops are super fearful.

what ever happened to cop shops who have the admonishment to use the gun as a last resort to save lives and not the first choice.

cops need classes to learn how to subdue angry/mental people without killing them.

and south Fl. media played it up for all it was worth. had everybody looking at a plane by the terminal forever. it was disgusting.

[SaveElmer]

22. Mentally ill bombers tell people...

There is no way to know one way or the other what mental state a bomber is in. I grant you a terrorist would not...but there are other people who are dangerous as well

[flordehinojos]

27. one explanation only:jeb bush's okay corral where you shoot first & ask

questions later. the marshalls said they feared for their lives. in jeb bush's okay corral you can shoot first and ask questions later about the killed. no questions asked of or about the killer.

[goodhue]

32. Because he had a backpack and was acting crazy on plane.

Doesn't make any sense to me either, but that is the explanation as I understand it.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

34. Seven witnesses are saying that he didn't say anything at all as he....

...was running off the plane. That directly contradicts the initial story that he was running up and down the aisle shouting that he had a bomb.

There are also conflicting stories about whether or not he was carrying his backpack as he left the plane. If not, then the story originating with the Air Marshals about him reaching into the backpack which allegedly triggered his shooting are false.

[MoonRiver]

38. The facts will come out and maybe we'll know what actually happened.

But I can't for the life of me understand why this guy would have been murdered, without reason at least in their minds, by the AMs They may have made a mistake, but it makes no sense to me that this was a deliberate act.

[sproutster]

33. Because they can

They had options available. Put on your thinking caps people. 1. There are doors that can be closed - there is such things as communication - it's live even. 2. They shot him in a close range - shocking when you know the destructive power of a bomb. 4. They had his wife saying he was mentally ill. 5. He just flew and didn't blow up the plane or try to hijack it. ... ...

I haven't seen the "b" word confirmed by any witnesses - interesting non?

[AngryAmish]

37. Did he own a pit bull or did he smoke?