Jesus and the south

[CornField]

I am extremely blessed. I had the fortune of both growing up in the extreme southern Christian lifestyle and making my way out of it. It isn't until I return home for holidays and family gatherings that I fully see the differences in the way of life between Christians here in Iowa and Christians in my home state of Oklahoma and Texas. I will attempt to outline them here for the education and interest of others.

I was born into a very large Christian family. Instead of Sunday morning being devoted to church and religious attendance, the entire day of Sunday was devoted to such activities. In addition, our family was at the church whenever the doors were open to the public, and often when they were not. My father was an elder in the congregation. This means he was one of the chosen men allowed to attend strategic planning sessions, decide upon visiting speakers, pass the collection and communion plates, etc. One of my life's special memories is my father and I being baptized on the same Sunday morning. (He was renewing his commitment to the church and I was being baptized for the first time.)

When you travel to the south, one of the first things you notice is the abundance of churches. It almost seems as if there is at least one church on every street corner. The vast majority of these churches are protestant (Lutheran, Methodist, Disciples of Christ, Baptist, Presbyterian, etc.) and there are many different sects of each denomination. For instance, there are Southern Baptists, American Baptists, First Baptists, National Baptists, Free Will Baptists and Old School Baptists (just to name a few). Each of the denominations have breakdowns like this. So, in any small town in Oklahoma, you are likely to find more churches than retail stores, parks or schools. (Many times more than all of those things combined.)

Other denominations are not as readily available. In my hometown (population less than 10,000), for instance, there are at least 20 different protestant denominations represented in the community. In contrast, there is only one Catholic church and one Mormon church. To my knowledge, there is no pagan, UU, Muslim, Buddhist or Jewish facility/meeting spot there. So, as the nation stands with roughly an 80% protestant population, in the south you often find communities which are 95+% protestant. Due to this, churches have become more than simply places to go worship and hold religious ceremonies. Churches have been and continue to be a vital part of the social and economic network in the communities. Church administration have worked together in order to release the congregations in increments of time. For instance, the First Baptists may start at 8 a.m. and finish up at 10:30 a.m. while the United Methodists may start at 8:30 and finish at 11 a.m. In this way, area diners are not overwhelmed by all the church goers arriving at once.

When you visit a grocery store in this town, it is not unusual to hear someone loudly proclaim "Praise Jesus!" -- matter-of-fact, it is not unusual to hear this phrase shouted/spoken in any variety of places (diners, auto repair, church, school, park, traffic, etc.) It is so commonplace that others in the vicinity rarely look up from their activities. At times, "Praise Jesus!" will be followed by a high-five. (No, I'm not kidding.) "Praise Jesus!" is sort-of a all-encompassing phrase which is used in a variety of situations. For instance, if I found the last box of Hershey's kisses at the grocery store, I might be inclined to praise Jesus. (My sister did this during the week of Thanksgiving.) If I'm stuck in traffic and things began to roll along, I might be inclined to praise Jesus. If I find out the repairs to my car aren't as expensive as I thought they would be, I might be inclined to praise Jesus. If I want to buy a sweater and it is on sale, I might praise Jesus. In short, people praise Jesus for anything and everything -- and they do so publicly.

Now, for as much as praising Jesus is commonplace, public praising of other deities is not as readily accepted. Since I had never heard anyone Praise Allah or Praise the Goddess publicly in Oklahoma, my husband and I ran our own little experiment over the Thanksgiving holiday. I exclaimed "Praise the Goddess!" when the cashier told me my total at the Wal-Mart (which is now the only grocery store for 25 miles -- but that belongs in another post). The cashier's eyes widened and her mouth fell open. The woman behind us, loaded her items back in her cart and moved to a different line. (I suspect the conveyor belt was quickly sanitized after our departure.) My husband, praised Allah at the gas pump, causing one man with a cowboy hat to start striking his fist into his own palm.

Along those same lines, I praised Jesus at a grocery store here in Iowa a few days ago. Several raised heads and wide-eyes greeted my public outburst here.

While in Texas, we personally witnessed a 45-minute conversation about a retailer's website which had a "holiday" section in lieu of a "Christmas" section. We saw people not only bow their heads in restaurants, but stand, hold hands and offer loud prayers which not only praised Jesus but degraded other religions/lifestyles.

In short, religion in the south is not only present, but of an "in your face" variety which is not seen in the states further north. (In my experience.) For the record, I have no problem with outward displays of religious belief. I don't care if someone feels the need to praise Jesus for the Cheerios. I do care, however, if a person of a different faith is not allowed to praise his/her deity for the Post Toasties.

A few more quick observations:

* It is difficult for a child who does not attend some sort of protestant church to have a full public school experience. Since churches offer the vast majority of social activities, students who do not attend a congregation rarely take part in skating parties, amusement park trips, sleepovers, etc.

* For a fact, students who are a part of a youth group are given at least some sort of priority for scholarships (offered by civic organizations which often have ties to churches), encouragement for post-secondary education, etc. (I know this for a fact, because I was one of those students while my Catholic girlfriend was not.)

* Local festivals are often sponsored by churches which then dictate activities and entertainment.

* Churches are a large income base for small local papers (regular ads for services and special event ads). Due to this, smaller papers are beholden to the churches.

* Young adults who are known to attend church, often receive slaps on the wrist when they get into trouble with the police. For instance, if a group of teens hold a party at the lake and the cops come, those who attend church are much more likely to just be delivered to their parents, those who do not attend church are typically taken to the station.

There is probably a great deal more I could add to this post, but it's getting too long. LOL! For those who have never lived in the south, I hope this helps you to understand why citizens find their churches so important. Unlike here in Iowa where churches aren't as much as a community force, churches in the south are vital to almost every aspect of a citizen's life.

[Warpy]

1. I've spent a lifetime trying to explain to city folks

in New England just what those southern churches were all about.

Basically, they're the main social system in most towns, and the only social outlet that isn't awash in alcohol and fistfights.

Their influence is basic and it's pervasive.

And no city person has ever understood that.

[CornField]

2. Yes, and even those awash in alcohol and fistfights find their way

to the Sunday morning pews. :)

[misanthrope]

19. And all of them...

...from everywhere find their way to the football game. THAT'S really the number one religion.

[LittleOne]

3. OMG do you have this right...

I moved to Texas in September. I was out in the hill country all of 30 minutes before I was invited to attend church (picture Taoist Lesbian with deer in the headlights look). Not wanting to be rude I asked the denomination. I was told it was non-denominational... you just had to be christian.

I have to admit for a northerner the whole religion thing down here is bizarre. But next time I am outside of Austin I am going to be thanking the goddess and praising allah. Heck I may even do it while wearing one of my P-town T-shirts.

[CornField]

7. Welcome to DU!

If I was still required to live in that town, there is no way I'd be praising Allah or the Goddess publicly. I'd be afraid of the repercusions. Be careful if you decide to do this.

[LittleOne]

11. Thanks...

for the welcome.

Yep, I can be a little shit disturber when I want to be. But maybe the next time I am in JOHNSON CITY TEXAS I will not do it.

I was forced to go to Sunday School as a kid (United Church in Canada).

I asked my mother years later why she forced me to go when I knew she didn't believe in it. She felt it gave me a base on which to make my own decisions whatever they were.

[Swamp Rat]

16. Welcome to DU!

:hi: If you get sick of the inbred fundies and Hell hole where you are, come to New Orleans! We welcome "little shit disturbers." ;)

[CornField]

17. Swamp Rat

Sometime can you provide us a first-hand account of how life is going in NO? It be interesting to know how life is different now, what types of aid are still needed, etc.

[LittleOne]

21. I love your town!!

The absolutly best vacation I ever had was there and I was actually working a tradeshow. Gained 10 pounds in 10 days.

You let me know when you want my tourist dollars again because I am more than willing to spend them in your town.

PS Sorry about driving that buggy into that bar on Bourbon Street. What was that guy was thinking giving me the reins?

[...of J.Temperance]

25. Mr. Swamp Rat...is that

Ralph Reed? Huh?

[Swamp Rat]

29. That is the Earth name, chose he.

:D

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

4. I went from North to South

I agree with what you say; in some places in the South, there's more of the "praise Jesus" in some towns than others. And there are places where you can hear (albeit softly) "Alhumdulilah" and "Ho Metaquiatson".

I think another thing that makes the Christianity of the South so different is the predominance of Baptist/evangelical churches. Where I grew up in central IL, Methodist churches predominated. But when I moved to Southern Illinois, Baptists were all over the place, and their way of looking at things colored the whole society.

[SharonAnn]

5. Thanks. Growing up in Iowa and now living in the South, you can

imagine how hard it is for me to get used to this. Also, the incredible anti-Catholic attitudes really shock me at times.

I was raised Catholic and went to Catholic schools in a town in Iowa where there was little concern or even interest in what religion a person practiced or even IF they practiced one. Social life included lots of school activities but most of those were the same as at any school, only some of them were religious in nature.

Imagine my surprise when I was informed that Catholics are not Christians! I laughed, which upset the person who told me this (in all seriousness).

[CornField]

6. I remember us reading in high school about Catholics having the

largest population of all religions. We were stunned... positively stunned by this news. One boy in the class challenged this information as an obvious misprint and attempt to undermine the Christian faith. :lmao:

Growing up in the south, enveloped by the way of life there, you develop very little understanding of the rest of the nation or of the world at-large.

I do feel for you. One of my best friends in high school was Catholic. It was rare for her to receive invitations to parties or other activities because her faith was not considered to be Christian. Some even shunned her as some sort of cult member. In the northern states, you hear people discuss antisemistism... I don't think they have any clue about the degree of anti-Catholicism in the southern states.

[Warpy]

8. I hit NC and puberty at the same time

with an Irish Catholic mother, a Jewish last name, and I'd turned atheist.

And you think YOU have issues?

[GumboYaYa]

9. Catholic ain't Christian...they still have Jesus on the cross.

The crosses in the Baptist church don't have Jesus on them cause he's in heaven now.

That's what I learned as a child. All these Catholics voting with the fundies don't realize that behind their backs the fundies call them heathens too.

[bunkerbuster1]

22. I thought the SBC "problem" with Catholics

was that they were idolators, aka "Mary-Worshippers."

I was introduced to this line of thought when I was driving through the Carolinas and heard some AM station, where a woman wanted to know if her Catholic friend could be "saved" even though she prayed to Mary.

[GumboYaYa]

23. Oh yeah, that too, plus the Catholics don't really pray, they read

prayers from books. That is not how God wants you to pray, so they can't be Christians.

[Anakin Skywalker]

27. I Can Attest To That

I have chatted and debated with many "born-again" types and most have quite the contempt for Catholics.

[Andrea]

10. A real eye-opener

Thanks for this post. Having grown up and lived my whole life in various places in the Great Lakes region, this was all news to me. Kind of explains how this insane "War on Christmas" theme is getting some traction, among many other things.

[angry old hippie]

12. Differences in Christianity and Christians

I grew up in the midwest, where it was uncommon for someone to
publicly display their faith.  Since then I have lived in the
south (Florida panhandle), and also in Wyoming and Colorado. 
Currently, I am in New Mexico.

I teach, and am principal in a Christian school.  That
probably gives me a different perspective on issues than a lot
of other people.

It has always been interesting to me that people think since I
am Christian I must be republican; but that is for another
issue.

I have found over the years that more and more people's lives
do NOT revolve around their church.  Even in Florida this
seemed to be the case.  Perhaps this is related to the size of
the town.  In Florida we were in Ft. Walton Beach which is a
bedroom community to Eglin Air Force Base.  That may also be a
part of why I didn't see evidence of what you related.

In our Christian school we have a difficult time getting
students to sing in our church even once or twice a year. 
Twenty years ago our kids sang monthly and our attendance was
higher than it is now.  Church related activies like youth
group and church sports teams are also declining in
attendance.

The biggest difference I found in location was when we were in
Wyoming.  There, religion IS big and attendance and
participation were higher.  On the other hand, the biggest
celebration in Cheyenne seemed to be the annual Frontier Days
rodeo rather than anything related to religion.  Businesses
were closed more hours for Frontier Days than they were for
Christmas.  We only lasted there four years before we had to
leave.

[CornField]

14. Thank you so much for this perspective

I had hoped to get responses like yours when I made my post.
And, now that I consider it, what I describe is something much
more apt to be seen in smaller towns than in Tulsa and its
suburbs. (Although I have seen it there as well, just not as
often.) 

I've never lived in Wyoming but stayed there briefly (while
enroute to Oregon). I don't remember seeing or hearing
anything religious during our visit. Of course, we were in
places typically frequented by travelers, not by residents. 

Does it seem to you that places with fewer enterainment
opportunities for young people typically have social networks
which revolve around churches? This seems to be the case in my
mind's eye. As my hometown's movie theater and skating rink
closed, the churches were relied on for entertainment as well
as religious study. (Both the theater and the skating rink
facilities are now churches, btw. LOL!) 

I also don't mean to imply that everyone who lives in Oklahoma
praises Jesus publicly. Many do, but not all. Here in Iowa,
however, I've never heard anyone publicly praise Jesus outside
of a religious ceremony/facility. 

I do not believe the church, as a rule, set out become the
social network of communities. In many places which have hit
tough economic times, I think churches have merely stepped up
to the plate to provide a service to the community. There are
many small town newspapers which could not afford to survive
without the advertising generated by churches. There are many
families which would go hungry without the helping hand their
church congregations provide. 

My intent with my OP was not to state: "Those southern
churches are evil and control it all!" It was my
intention to provide a glance at the differences between
religious life here in Iowa and the same in Oklahoma and
Texas. Communities here - even the smaller communities - have
a firm separation of church and state. Churches are not the
primary social network for residents, who also belong to civic
and service clubs which span religious lines. One of the
things that shocked me when we first moved here was a festival
beer tent being run by a local church. That type of thing
would just never happen in Oklahoma. 

[newyawker99]

26. Hi angry old hippie!!

Welcome to DU!!   :toast:

[Nicole]

13. I'm in Oklahoma & never had that experience

Maybe I'm fortunate in that I never lived in a small town.

I've never heard Praise Jesus in the grocery store, auto repair or a diner.

I have heard Bless Your Heart numerous times, not always a good thing. :)

[CornField]

15. LOL!!! I had to explain the "bless your heart" thing to my husband

I told him "bless his/her/your heart" is simply a license to insult. He didn't get it so I gave him the following example... "Joe's boy Roger doesn't have the good sense God gave a turnip... bless his heart."

:rofl:

[Nicole]

20. LOL ! Same here

My cousin from Colorado thought it was so sweet when a waitress told her "well bless your heart". That was after my cousin tipped her a less than expected amount. :evilgrin:

[bunkerbuster1]

18. Thank you. a most illuminating post.

I'm a relatively recent arrival to the South, and I'm in an area that probably used to be a lot like what you've described.

Which, actually, explains a great deal about why there is so much receptivity in my part of the world. While the population is actually very diverse, and there are all kinds of worshippers, the "natives" (yarite) feel they've been invaded, and write incredibly stupid LTEs and make stupider calls to local talk-radio joints where they unload on how they've been victimized.

All I can say is that there are places where this conflict is going on every day, and that is really basis for the "cold holy war" being waged now. It's not Jesusland vs. the United States of Canada (i.e., red vs. blue), it's really just cold reality setting in that they can't rule with an iron fist forever.

They always just assumed that they could.

[bunkerbuster1]

24. Kicked, nominated

Why the hell was I the first to vote this "Greatest?" This is the kind of post I come to DU in hopes I might read once in a given week or even month, if I'm lucky.

[BamaGirl]

28. I think this probably has a lot to do with the size of the town too (in

addition to location). I'm from Atlanta, went to school in the 70's and 80's, and was raised Southern Baptist. Well sometimes we were Free Will Baptist. Depended on the year lol. ;) Anyway, I don't remember ever having any kind of exposure to religion in school, we were taught evolution, etc. I talked to my parents about this recently (after all the put religion back in schools crap here lately) and they say the same thing. Religion in school? Didn't happen, and they graduated in 1960 and 1968, in schools around Atlanta. By the late 80s, we were pretty much done with Baptist churches too, because those in our area started to get very conservative. So, that's where I came from.

Now I live in southeast Alabama, in the only city of any size down here, about 60k. Religion is pretty pervasive here. For example, my kids aren't going to school next Tuesday cause its what I like to refer to as Baptist Indoctrination Day. People from one of the local churches come in and talk about Christmas. (They do this at Easter too.) Now, I'd actually let the kids go to this if they also had a Catholic priest there and a representative or three dozen from other churches. I really really hate the church that gets in though, and my children are not going to be exposed to that crap. This is not the Southern Baptism I was raised on.

None of the after school stuff my kids do is through churches, and their not going to church has not affected parties they get invited to etc. There are plenty of people like that, but their kids don't tend to go to public school.

The anti-Catholic thing...I need a those people are idiots emoticon lol. My husband is Irish Catholic, so this pisses him off more than me. It's a ridiculous, common claim. It amazes me any Catholic votes Rep. In our early school years here I argued with the school about their holiday religious programs, because they tried damned hard to make those unexcused absenses. We have a deal now. They have priest sit in, and my kids can go. They like to tell me there are no Catholics here tho. Really, then what the hell is that big Catholic on Main St for!? The cool thing is I have apparently started a trend 'cause last year a bunch of other kids were also absent that day.

Anyway, my point is that it's getting worse. I think, eventually, things will swing back the other way a bit. How long that takes is anyone's guess.