The Definition of "Victory" and the Definition of "Winning"

[liveoaktx]

We need to take them back. If the "Strategy for Victory in Iraq" was written by that pollster who said America needs to believe we are winning or going to win, then we need to redefine what "Victory" or "Winning" actually is. As Murtha says "Just because the President says something doesn't make it so" and just because the President is trying to say that Victory means staying the course without any timetable etc doesn't mean that Victory can't mean, for example.../
- Now we can go home, the elections have happened, Iraq really IS a Sovereign country.

-We've won, we got rid of Saddam, troops come home now.

[The_Casual_Observer]

1. I doubt that the "insurgents" care about any of that.

They are unaffected by american politics, the more troops we send there the more targets, the fewer troops we have there the more influence they get. Historians will write about what a blunder this whole Iraq "adventure" was.

[liveoaktx]

2. Not talking about this from the insurgent standpoint but from the

poll that said Americans want us to WIN. The point is, saying that winning is one way repeatedly by Bush can be answered by Democrats who say that winning is something else entirely. It doesn't have to be a Victory/Win/Bush framing battle versus Defeat/Lose/Dem issue.

[The_Casual_Observer]

3. Win what?

Who really cares what "americans" want anyway?