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Conservative Scholars Argue Bush’s Wiretapping Is An Impeachable Offense

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sabra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-20-05 03:17 PM
Original message
Conservative Scholars Argue Bush’s Wiretapping Is An Impeachable Offense

http://thinkprogress.org/2005/12/20/conservative-scholars-argue-bush%E2%80%99s-wiretapping-is-an-impeachable-offense/

Conservative Scholars Argue Bush’s Wiretapping Is An Impeachable Offense

Conservative scholars Bruce Fein and Norm Ornstein argued yesterday on The Diane Rehm show that, should Bush remain defiant in defending his constitutionally-abusive wire-tapping of Americans (as he has indicated he will), Congress should consider impeaching him.

QUESTION: Is spying on the American people as impeachable an offense as lying about having sex with an intern?

BRUCE FEIN, constitutional scholar and former deputy attorney general in the Reagan Administration: I think the answer requires at least in part considering what the occupant of the presidency says in the aftermath of wrongdoing or rectification. On its face, if President Bush is totally unapologetic and says I continue to maintain that as a war-time President I can do anything I want – I don’t need to consult any other branches – that is an impeachable offense. It’s more dangerous than Clinton’s lying under oath because it jeopardizes our democratic dispensation and civil liberties for the ages. It would set a precedent that … would lie around like a loaded gun, able to be used indefinitely for any future occupant.

NORM ORNSTEIN, AEI scholar: I think if we’re going to be intellectually honest here, this really is the kind of thing that Alexander Hamilton was referring to when impeachment was discussed.


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Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-20-05 03:19 PM
Response to Original message
1. All who support this are conservative,- all conservatives don't support it
It's not a liberal-conservative thing.

It's kind of a Very Liberal - Very Conservative thing.
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FreedomAngel82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-20-05 03:23 PM
Original message
I think what it is
is that it's Constitution vs people against the Constitution.
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C_U_L8R Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-20-05 03:21 PM
Response to Original message
2. thank you gentlemen
i hope there are more thoughtful scholars and congressmen like you out there
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Supersedeas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-20-05 04:44 PM
Response to Reply #2
17. Intellectual integrity is hard to come by in the ranks of * supporters
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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-20-05 03:22 PM
Response to Original message
3. BANG!
That's a shot heard round the beltway!
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ddeclue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-20-05 03:23 PM
Response to Original message
4. Articles of Impeachment...A First Draft..
Edited on Tue Dec-20-05 04:04 PM by ddeclue
Everyone:

Please send the below to your Congressmen and Senators (and newspapers) and ask them if they could please take the time to fill in the blanks.

Write your Congressman here:
http://www.house.gov/writerep /

Look up and write your Senators here:
http://www.senate.gov /

It is surprising how little editing was required to go from the original Richard Nixon Articles of Impeachment to the below. It only took about 10 minutes.

http://watergate.info/impeachment/impeachment-articles....

Doug De Clue
Orlando, FL

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Articles of Impeachment Adopted by the Committee on the Judiciary

Date:______________

Article 1
Article 2
Article 3

RESOLVED, That George W. Bush, President of the United States, is impeached for high crimes and misdemeanours, and that the following articles of impeachment to be exhibited to the Senate:

ARTICLES OF IMPEACHMENT EXHIBITED BY THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IN THE NAME OF ITSELF AND OF ALL OF THE PEOPLE OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, AGAINST GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, IN MAINTENANCE AND SUPPORT OF ITS IMPEACHMENT AGAINST HIM FOR HIGH CRIMES AND MISDEMEANOURS.

Article 1

In his conduct of the office of President of the United States, George W. Bush, in violation of his constitutional oath faithfully to execute the office of President of the United States and, to the best of his ability, preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution of the United States, and in violation of his consitutional duty to take care that the laws be faithfully executed, has prevented, obstructed, and impeded the administration of justice, in that:

On or about December 17, 2005, and prior thereto, agents of the National Security Agency on orders of George W. Bush committed unlawful warrentless wiretaps against thousands of American citizens inside the United States in violation of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (USC Title 50 Chapter 36 Subchapter 1), and in engaged in a conspiracy with him to commit an offense against the United States in violation of USC TITLE 18 PART I CHAPTER 19 § 371. Prior thereto, George W. Bush, using the powers of his high office, engaged personally and through his close subordinates and agents, in a course of conduct or plan designed to delay, impede, and obstruct the investigation of such illegal activities; to cover up, conceal and protect those responsible; and to conceal the existence and scope of other unlawful covert activities in violation of USC TITLE 18 PART I CHAPTER 73 § 1512 paragraph (b).

The means used to implement this course of conduct or plan included one or more of the following: issuing Executive Orders contrary to United States Code, making false or misleading statements to lawfully authorized investigative officers and employees of the United States; withholding relevant and material evidence or information from lawfully authorized investigative officers and employees of the United States; approving, condoning, acquiescing in, and counselling witnesses with respect to the giving of false or misleading statements to lawfully authorized investigative officers and employees of the United States and false or misleading testimony in duly instituted judicial and congressional proceedings; interfering or endeavouring to interfere with the conduct of investigations by the Department of Justice of the United States, the Federal Bureau of Investigation, and Congressional Committees; endeavouring to misuse the National Security Agency, an agency of the United States; and making or causing to be made false or misleading public statements.

In all of this, George W. Bush has acted in a manner contrary to his trust as President and subversive of constitutional government, to the great prejudice of the cause of law and justice and to the manifest injury of the people of the United States.

Wherefore George W. Bush, by such conduct, warrants impeachment and trial, and removal from office.

Adopted ____ to ____ by the Committee on the Judiciary of the House of Representatives, at __________________________________, in Room ______ of the _____________ Office Building, Washington D.C.

Article 2

Using the powers of the office of President of the United States, George W. Bush, in violation of his constitutional oath faithfully to execute the office of President of the United States and, to the best of his ability, preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution of the United States, and in disregard of his constitutional duty to take care that the laws be faithfully executed, has repeatedly engaged in conduct violating the constitutional rights of citizens, impairing the due and proper administration of justice and the conduct of lawful inquiries, or contravening the laws governing agencies of the executive branch and the purposed of these agencies.

This conduct has included one or more of the following:

He has, acting personally and through his subordinates and agents, endeavoured to obtain from the National Security Agency, in violation of the constitutional rights of citizens, the contents of private phone calls for purposes not authorized by law, and to cause, in violation of the constitutional rights of citizens, criminal investigations to be intitiated or conducted in a discriminatory manner.

He misused the Federal Bureau of Investigation, the National Security Agency and other executive personnel, in violation or disregard of the constitutional rights of citizens, by directing or authorizing such agencies or personnel to conduct or continue electronic surveillance or other investigations for purposes not authorized by law, or any lawful function of his office; he did direct, authorize, or permit the use of information obtained thereby; and he did direct the concealment of certain records made by the Federal Bureau of Investigation and the National Security Agency of electronic surveillance.

He has, acting personally and through his subordinates and agents, in violation or disregard of the constitutional rights of citizens, authorized and permitted to be maintained a secret investigative unit within the offices of the Department of Defense, which unlawfully utilized the resources of the government, and engaged in covert and unlawful activities to unlawfully gather intelligence in violation of domestic prohibitions.

He has failed to take care that the laws were faithfully executed by failing to act when he knew or had reason to know that his close subordinates endeavoured to impede and frustrate lawful inquiries by duly constituted executive, judicial and legislative entities concerning the unlawful naming of a covert operative of the Central Intelligence Agency, and the cover-up thereof.

In disregard of the rule of law, he knowingly misused the executive power by interfering with agencies of the executive branch, including the Federal Bureau of Investigation, the Department of Justice, the National Security Agency and the Central Intelligence Agency, in violation of his duty to take care that the laws be faithfully executed.

In all of this, George W. Bush has acted in a manner contrary to his trust as President and subversive of constitutional government, to the great prejudice of the cause of law and justice and to the manifest injury of the people of the United States.

Wherefore George W. Bush, by such conduct, warrants impeachment and trial, and removal from office.


Adopted ____ to ____ by the Committee on the Judiciary of the House of Representatives.


Article 3

In his conduct of the office of President of the United States, George W. Bush, contrary to his oath faithfully to execute the office of President of the United States and, to the best of his ability, preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution of the United States, and in violation of his constitutional duty to take care that the laws be faithfully executed, has through the use of often-secret Justice Department findings, substituted his own judgment for that of the courts assuming to himself functions and judgments necessary to the proper exercise of the judicial power vested by the Article III of the Constitution in the Supreme Court and the lower Courts established by Congress.

In all of this, George W. Bush has acted in a manner contrary to his trust as President and subversive of constitutional government, to the great prejudice of the cause of law and justice, and to the manifest injury of the people of the United States.

Wherefore, George W. Bush, by such conduct, warrants impeachment and trial, and removal from office.

Adopted ____ to ____ by the Committee on the Judiciary of the House of Representatives.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Just Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-20-05 03:27 PM
Response to Original message
5. Well, thank goodness they recognize he is directly breaching,...
,...his oath of office, acting in violation of (rather than upholding) the Constitution and intentionally violating the law.

This is NOT about politics. This is about crimes being committed by the CIC. Serious shit!
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zbdent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-20-05 03:27 PM
Response to Original message
6. This is the tactic they're going to use to get * (and probably several
other guilty Repukes) -

Yes, he broke the law, but "he didn't lie about it afterward!"

Watch for that argument.
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Just Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-20-05 03:29 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. He did/is doing worse: he's gonna to continue to break the law.
He said so.
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BuyingThyme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-20-05 03:31 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. The admission of involvement and the early call for investigation
preempt the lie factor and the calls for investigation.

They're handling this very well.
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kenny blankenship Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-20-05 04:16 PM
Response to Reply #9
16. Naturally, if he denied it
Edited on Tue Dec-20-05 04:21 PM by kenny blankenship
just before it comes out or just after initial reports, he'd look doubly guilty.
If he said it wouldn't be done again knowing what he knows now, or that it will not be done anymore, he'd be admitting that he understands he did something he was not supposed to do under the statute law and Constitution. (Also if they admit any wrongdoing they are immediately opening themselves to an investigation of exactly how and upon whom this power was abused. It could become another Watergate deal where the President is seen as involved in the basest kind of political espionage--trying to serve his own interests by screwing opponents-- and undermining democracy itself.)

They really only have total defiance left to them as a defense. If it works, this country will have crossed the line of no return--we won't be on the road to Fascism we'll be there, and we'll stay there falling further and further down the rabbit hole of unreason until... well, no fascist system ever returned to democracy in a gentle & polite fashion. There is a painful push from outside or inside and everything must be reinvented and re-ordered.
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BuyingThyme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-20-05 05:42 PM
Response to Reply #16
21. You get it Kenny. If you're into it, start your own thread
Edited on Tue Dec-20-05 05:43 PM by BuyingThyme
and say it again.

Or just re-post the above post as a thread.

EDIT: (You can explain it better than I.)
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librechik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-20-05 05:03 PM
Response to Reply #9
19. oops--then the April 2004 clip emerges
and turns everything he has said in the last week into a lie.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x5650026
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BuyingThyme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-20-05 05:45 PM
Response to Reply #19
22. Those are old lies.
They're worried about the new stuff.
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Inland Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-20-05 09:29 PM
Response to Reply #6
23. Not lying about it afterward is only relevant to show contrition
Hardly the case when Bush says he did it only to say he's gonna keep ON doing it and that it's perfectly legal to do it covertly.
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peacetalksforall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-20-05 03:28 PM
Response to Original message
7. Not all. Victoria Toensing made a fool of herself this monring on
C-Span. She did not sound credible and she talked over the other guest. She is a disgusting defendent - claiming that she is the expert in the fourth amendment. Since she is a pimp for the right wing, it can probably be guessed that they went to her to get her ideas on how to get around the law and now she is sneeringly offensive with her pompous, rude show that was totally ineffective with me.
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emald Donating Member (718 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-20-05 03:44 PM
Response to Reply #7
13. I saw this red headed itch
talking all over the other guest, shouting down callers, repeating phrases over and over again.

:puke:

What a shrill and vacuous woman. Rude and offensive was the least of her traits this am.
Not only was she rude but her points made little sense and she only showed how unthinking and dogmatic the right has become.

Nothing but an itch with a shrill voice and rude manners. Wish I could scratch it off.
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Generator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-20-05 03:34 PM
Response to Original message
10. Kick!
Great stuff.
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G_j Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-20-05 03:39 PM
Response to Original message
11. the kind of thing that Alexander Hamilton was referring to
"I think if we’re going to be intellectually honest here, this really is the kind of thing that Alexander Hamilton was referring to when impeachment was discussed."

this quote is worth saving, right on the money

:applause:

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Lochloosa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-20-05 04:12 PM
Response to Reply #11
15. ...
"In framing a government which is to be administered by men over men the great difficulty lies in this: You must first enable the government to control the governed, and in the next place, oblige it to control itself." Alexander Hamilton
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me b zola Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-20-05 03:40 PM
Response to Original message
12. k & r
:kick:
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dalloway Donating Member (744 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-20-05 04:05 PM
Response to Original message
14. when I read someone from the AEI actually saying that, my first
thought is still, "So now the conservatives realize they need to ditch the figurehead to keep any semblance of the movement alive."
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LunaC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-20-05 04:57 PM
Response to Original message
18. WOW! Powerful statements
This is one of the best days in a long time......inch by inch, step by step, Bush* is closer to being ousted!
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goodhue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-20-05 05:05 PM
Response to Original message
20. Great
Except I honestly don't think Norm Ornstein qualifies as a conservative. He is good friends with Al Franken after all.
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Az_lefty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-21-05 12:02 PM
Response to Original message
24. Unapologetic? Clinton apologized and he was impeached.
the little fascist in the WH knowingly broke the law. Impeach the Son-of-a-bitch!
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