I don't understand the Repub. idolatry of Reagan, why?

[fencesitter]

I can't think of what he did for this country. I can think of a lot of things he did TO this country. Sure he cut taxes like a true conservative, but created massive deficits which caused his successor to raise taxes to fix. Sure, the Soviet Union, the communist threat fell, but would have anyway. What did he do to deserve this hero worship, his likeness on Mt. Rushmore, his face on our currency? His name on public institutions? I don't get it. Is it because the Republican presidents after Eisenhouer all sucked? Sorry, I missed the miniseries.

[fallow]

1. you didnt miss much

I couldnt understand what the fuss was about. I actually fell asleep during it so maybe i missed the unpatriotic parts lol.

[felonious thunk]

2. Because they have to prove how great he was

They aren't satisfied with him fucking up the entire world for 8 years and beyond, they have to feed their insecurities by proving to everyone how great he was. They are incapable of looking within themselves and finding anything but self-loathing (which is why they hate everyone else) and that self-loathing drives them to prop up this nothing of man into a god-like hero. It's really sad how frightened they are of themselves that they must hide behind all these various heroes and fantasies in order to believe whatever it is they think they want to believe. Really, I just feel sorry for anyone who hates himself or herself so much that they become conservative. It's really very very sad to see.

[trotsky]

3. They had to counter FDR.

FDR's incredible leadership through the Great Depression and WWII literally created millions of lifelong Democrats.

Even the most ardent Reagan-nut, if s/he is truly informed about the guy, will admit he didn't do much beyond being a cheerleader. But as an actor, he was able to ACT the role of president very well, and that resonated with the people.

Look at the rest of the Republican presidents of the last 50 years - like they have anybody else to pick from? They had to get someone to counter FDR, to immortalize. And Reagan is the obvious choice.

[fencesitter]

10. OK I like that theory.

n/P

[mdmc]

4. Revelations

the second antichrist will command the worship of the first antichrist.

[mdmc]

6. You gotta serve somebody

it might be the devil, or it might be the Lord <(B.Dylan)>
We have JFK, RFK, MLKjr., and FDR... The gop has nixon and raygun... have to serve somebody and Lincon is just too outdated...

[tom_paine]

20. Plus, the New Bushevik Repubs HATE Lincoln

He was a godless supporter of the Federal expansion, don't you know?

[tom_paine]

18. The First AntiChrist "who death stroke was healed"...

Sounds like the First AntiChrist healed up from an assassination attempt.

And, of course, the Second Antichrist SHALL command the worship of the first when he is murder, sometime between May and Octobor 2004.

[bryant69]

5. Mythology

I mean, one can raise the same points about JFK. What exactly did he do that was so great?

But Kennedy symobolizes a time and a place so gets a bit of a pass on what he actually did. Same with Reagan. If you point out how little got accomplished the answer is that he would have done more if he had been able to work with Democrats in congress (particularly if you bring up the skyrocketing deficit).

And they really believe that Reagan did cause the end of the Soviet Union, more or less by himself. Some won't even accept the idea that internal conditions played a role in the collapse. I had an argument with one guy who made this argument, then quoted Margaret Thatcher as having said that he brought down the Soviet Union. When I tried to point out some of the internal contradictions (even ones you'd think they'd get behind, like the failures of communism), he just said, more or less, "Who do you think I'm going to believe, you or Margaret Thatcher?"

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[fencesitter]

14. Kennedy had the youth and catholic thing

Everyone in those days had a photo of the Pope and Kennedy together in their dining room. The first Catholic president and 42 (?) years old. Beautiful wife, beautiful children, suddenly he's gone. Tough act to follow for anyone, nomatter what they do as president.

[ramapo]

15. Didn't get us blown up

Perhaps JFK's greatest achievement is he got us through the Cuban missile crisis. He sttod down the military that was hot on bombing Cuba. He negotiated a way out with Kruscheve.

Scary to imagine what the current WH "occupant" would do in a similar situation.

In addition, JFK set out the goal for the space program resulting in an incredible achievement by our country and a boom to many parts of our economy.

His administration (RFK especially) stood up to the attempts in the South to maintain segregationist policies.

[fencesitter]

19. Reagan brought us Star Wars!

or was that George Lucas?

[robbedvoter]

7. Their only one not disgraced, ridiculed, notoriously ruinous

Got to work with what you've got!
I hope you guys watch Angels in America on HBO. It's set during Raygun, Roy Cohn is a character and he makes a case for the big plan - sounds just like Rove/Delay/Ashcroft. Lots of goodies for politicos like us! Better than the CBS soap!

[KensPen]

8. He also......

helped restore the credibility or "sale ability" of the Republican party.

The Kennedy legacy was going strong.
people wanted to be progressive, to be liberal.

Nixon was a last hurrah of dying generation.

His disgrace and the mood of the nation should have spelled a Democratic White house for many years.....

and Ronnie rode in on a white horse and turned the swinging pendulum around.

[placton]

9. Ah Grasshopper!

You were obviously not alive during the USSR years. They used to "change" history by re-writing encyclopedias, airbrushing photos to remove or add people, etc. This was called "revisionist history." Now that the US is the NEW Soviet state, we are adopting many of their habits. The "revisionist history" has been applied thoughout Bush II, and now we are doing that with Stalin, I mean Reagan.

To understand what the GOP is really doing, read all about the old USSR. Then you can understand what is ahead for us.

[ramapo]

11. Led the RW movement

Reagan was a very amiable guy who put on a great show. He was the consummate performer and put much of America into a fantasy-like state-of-mind. He led the RW movement and converted many Democrats to the Republican column. He was very popular with the youth (which I found especially disturbing).

His "Morning in America" show was a ratings hit and when he went full-tilt on a "guns and butter" program (record defense spending and tax cuts) nobody really cared that it wasn't very fiscally responsible.

He was unbeatable when it came to one-liners like "There you go again" and "the Evil Empire". People loved that. He said what he meant and meant what he said and no matter how inane, he was revered for it.

I contend he was one of the worst Presidents but when I mention this most people think I'm crazy. He is thought to have fixed our economy while in my analysis he set us on a budget-busting bender which only GWB himself has been capable of topping.

Remember it's not what you do, it's how you say it.

[kentuck]

12. Because he started the hate wagon rolling....

And his supporters loved him for it. He busted the union. Yay! He cut school lunches and called ketchup a vegetable. Yay! Contrary to the idea that everybody loved the Gipper, that is a myth that has been perpetuated by the media. He was the most divisive leader we had until we got Dubya. And coincidentally, they love Dubya also. They don't give a damn about the country. They like division and partisanship....until they get it thrown back into their faces. Then you are a "Bush hater".

[Yupster]

13. It seems easy today

to say that the Soviet Union was going to fall anyway, but it didn't look like it during the late 70's.

In just a few years, communist or pro-Soviet governments took over in South Vietnam, Cambodia, Laos, Angola, Mozambique, Ethiopia, Nicaragua, Afghanistan, and Grenada. There was an insurgency threatening the friendly El Salvador government. If the Soviet Union was on the brink of collapse, it sure didn't look that way.

It looked like we were in retreat throughout the world, and this was just a few years after S. Vietnam fell in 1975.

The mood was depressing. There were tv shows about nuclear war in the USA, and best-selling novels theorizing the Soviet attack and annexation of West Germany. Meanwhile President Carter talked of national "malaise" and wore a sweater while he turned the heat down in the White House.

It was a pretty short turnaround from this depressing environment to the Soviet collapse only ten years later, and Reagan with his optimistic, we will win tone is given credit for the turnaround rightly or wrongly.

[ProfessorGAC]

24. Most Economists Would Disagree With Your Assessment

It was pretty clear that with expansionism bottled up by MAD, and a strong NATO, the economy of the USSR was in complete disarray.

We knew that then. Remember, that even during Reagan, there were plenty of folks that were decrying the supposed "missile gap" that was non-existent.

I think most serious economic studies of the USSR economy, even as far back as the mid-70's projected (extrapolated, if you will) a collapse of the system within 30 years. (Fahrber is one example of such a paper, and i think that was written back in either '74 or '75. I was still an undergrad when i first became exposed to this work.)

In retrospect, several historical economists have written tomes on the cause and effect relationships. Many of these include information known at the time and i do believe it was the consensus of the economics community that it was a macroeconomy headed toward implosion.
The Professor

[Yupster]

26. I don't disagree with you Professor, but

what the macroeconomists are circulating in their predictive papers, and what the average person was seeing on the evening news every night were not at all the same thing. Watching the news back then sure didn't look like we were winning.

[ProfessorGAC]

28. Fair Enough

I didn't read your first post to suggest that it was the everyday folks you were talking about.

I agree with your thought on that. I think, even then, that the media may have been filtering too much, since there were very learned people who were telling the powers that be, "just be patient, they'll collapse under their own weight."

The media should have known that (i presume) and were just not telling Joe and Jane Averageamerican. So, there was some media complicity even back then, i guess.

Now, Ronnie might even have actually believed the evil empire stuff. If an economist would have tried to explain the papers to him, he would have glazed over and dozed off anyway.
The Professor

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

29. The commie bogeyman cometh.

Reagan was able to convince some people that the godless hordes were at the gates.

Afghans racing through Baltimore on their camels.

Salvadorans whacking away at good capitalists with rusty machetes.

Nicaraguans stopping the coffee imports.

Cubans attacking Miami in '55 Buicks.

All those powerful nations of Mozambique, Angola, and mighty Grenada sending armed fleets to batter the ports of Boston and Long Beach.

And, the prostrate nations of SE Asia sending their sampans to invade San Diego.

Reagan was a salesman, and he sold fear. Stupid, ignorant, fear. Now we have another one selling the the same cheap fear while stomping around in his all-American cowboy boots and waving the flag to a still gullible public who wants to "feel better".

B.S. then, B.S. now.

[MrBenchley]

16. The main reason

is because Americans remember his movie persona of an average decent joe...it makes Ron one of the few Republicans Americans can think of without puking.

Of course, that's why his actual record is never discussed in ANY detail at all by his idolators.

[tom_paine]

17. Because Goldwater, on his deathbed, told the Busheviks to go f*ck

themselves.

Barry Goldwater, agree or disagree, was a True Conservative and a True Patriot.

Ever wonder why the Imperial Family and their Minions, Lackeys and assorted Hitmen never mention Barry, EVER???

On his deathbed, Goldwater told the Busheviks (Gingrich, DeLay, etc.), "In the future, do not associate my name with anything you do. You are extremists and have hurt the Republican Party more then the Democrats ever did."

Of course they brushed him off, it would be like Gregor Starsser trying to lecture Hitler in 1932.

But it does explain the frenzied Fuhrer-worship of the Bushevik Puppet, Raygun.

Because Goldwater told 'em not to. He was NOBODY'S PUPPET.

[opihimoimoi]

22. The Pubs are so hard up. so hungry. for a hero, they worship actors for

Gods Sake. They cannot distinguiah the diff. Often times, they acquire the Ed Zackery Syndrome.

If you cannot get the REAL Hero...

Go for the Sub.

This is Ed Zackery what they did.

Come, we go to the ET Library, learn of Planetary Management 101: How to escape Delusional Gov'ts

[Yupster]

27. I think Goldwater's marriage

had something to do with his changing heart too.

[Scott Lee]

21. Because Ol' Dutch made Americans comfortable with their bigotry

again. This is "Morning in America", remember? And the twilight of over 20 years of hard fought liberal successes.

[gonefishing]

23. I am probably remembering this wrong!

It seemed like during the early 90's it was universally accepted that Reagan was a bad president. Then sometime during the Clinton administration a RW revolt started brewing and now all of the sudden he is a great man. In my opinion he is the second worst president in my life time.

[kentuck]

32. He became much more credible once Clinton got Reagan's deficits...

under control. I think you memory is more or less correct.

[Cat Atomic]

34. I remember a of "Greatest Presidents" list in '92 or so,

where Reagan was listed in the bottom half. It didn't get much response that I recall... seemed like alot of people just sort of shrugged and said, "yeah, he sucked".

Then around 95 or so, I started to notice all the deification of Reagan by right wingers. I remember it struck me as very strange.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

25. The highpoint of White America's mythology.

Reagan and his followers still dream of establishing a mythical sort of "Father Know's Best", Mayberry, USA.

You know the one. It's all white. Dad goes to work with his briefcase and comes home to his cookie baking wife and adoring kids. He profers fatherly advice to his virginal daughters and his mischievous, but lovable, sons. Mom & Dad sleep in separate beds, of course, and the way that lovable little Buffy's and Ricky's are never discussed. The kid's are rebuked for saying things like "heck", and staying out 'til past 10:00. Mom just adores appliances and yearns for a fur coat. She also has her friends over so they can discuss cleaning products and fashion. Dad and his pals never venture beyond sports and business. Everybody gets dressed up and goes to Church (protestant only) every Sunday. The only time that the sherrif has any business is to throw the lovable town drunk into jail to sleep it off. Etc, etc, ad nauseum.

Reagan was able to sell that image of the "real" America to a gullible public terrified of Blacks, Women's Rights, Crime, Dissent, Communism, and anything that threatened that dream world.

The fact that no such America exists, or ever has existed, didn't affect the public perception that it once did and could again. If only we'd ignore reality and wave our flags, go to church, and vote for good "salt of earth", "straight talkin'", "capitalism is good", republicans, we'd all enjoy that lovely world of nauseating sweetness.

The repugs are attempting to sell that same dream to the American people once again. Unfortunately, reality keeps interfering.

[Redleg]

33. It's not the high point of this white american's mythology

eom

[noiretextatique]

35. excellent analysis, bandera...i agree 100%

i recall at the time...i didn't take reagan seriously at all. surely, i thought, americans had enough sense to see thru all the "make america great again" slogans mouthed by a second-rate ACTOR...surely. but to my horror, reagan was elected.
and the reasons are exactly as you say...much the same with smirk's candidacy. empty slogans mouthed by an empty-headed moron, but appealing to some mythical perfect past that never existed. i wrote a few poems at the time about how the yearning for the past couldn't possibly mean anything good for me...when i couldn't vote in the past, when i couldn't live or work in certain places in the past. i wrote about how reagan's desire to recreate 1940 in 1980 meant that my nephew could be lynched for looking at a white woman the wrong way. america's past doesn't have anything good for me. i remember how ugly the mood got here when reagan was elected...i felt the change, i saw how it changed people. it was a horrible time.

[grannylib]

30. I don't get it either, never have, never will...seems terribly

hypocritical to me; he had many of the personal qualities that most conservatives claim to abhor (divorced, Hollywood type, not a churchgoer, etc.) but they embraced this fluff-puppet over Carter??
It was all politics and power; the 'faith' card is really just a coverup for government-sanctioned greed, denying rights to women and minorities, bringing back bigotry in a big way - it's all lies, smoke and mirrors.

[theboss]

31. The Morning in America thing mostly

There are couple of reasons for the Reagan idolatry.

For one, he was the first truly "conservative" president in the modern sense of the word. Nixon was anti-Communist but was hardly a conservative (price-fixing, EPA, etc).

Secondly, this the line of Republican presidents up to Nixon

1928-1932: Hoover . . . Presides over The Great Depression
1952-1960: Eisenhower . . .Okay, everybody likes Ike, but he was barely a Republican. He could have easily run as a Democrat. And if he had run as a Democrat, the Republican Party may have ceased to exist.
1968 - 1974: Nixon . . . Resigns in disgrace
1974-1976: Ford . . . Hardly even qualifies.

So, until Reagan you have over 50 years of "eh" for Republicans. The Dems had FDR and JFK as icons. They had, well, Lincoln.

Finally, they have come to believe the "Morning in America" myth. They believe that Reagan found a country in ecomonic collapse and that had lost its respect in the world, between the Soviets invading Afghanistan and the Iran Hostage Crisis. They believe that he fixed the economy and made us a world power again. To be honest, there is a germ of truth in that. (The 70s sucked; I was there). But how much credit Reagan deserves is debatable.

I think the real credit for the "rebirth" of the 80s goes to Herb Brooks and Mike Eruzione.

[leftyandproud]

36. In short...Ronald Reagan

did EVERYTHING that we would NOT have done, and didn't do anything we wanted to do. He stood against us on every damn issue and mauled our ass in both elections. This is why they love him.