new Pennsylvania poll

[pruner]

Not Sure 31
Dean 19
Lieberman 12
Clark 10
Kerry 10
Gephardt 6
Braun 3
Sharpton 3
Kucinich 2
Edwards 0

11/23-12/8. n=158. MOE +/-7.8

http://www.mcall.com/news/local/all-electionsurvey.htmlstory

[unfrigginreal]

1. Nice!

So within the last week we have polls from IA,NH,PA,VA,SC,FL and TX with Dean leading or tied for the lead. Looking good!

[bearfartinthewoods]

3. i hope you also see that 80% do not favor him

and this is among dems in a state which is at risk.

[unfrigginreal]

7. Another "unintentional" bash on your part?

Favorable 28%
Unfavorable 21%
Haven't heard of 33%
Neutral 8%
Not Sure 10%

And I'm sure that you meant to point out that only Joe Lieberman had higher favorables of the Democratic candidates.

[bearfartinthewoods]

24. i don't do "unintentional"

[Melinda]

8. Dean's 60% ahead of his nearest competitor - Lieberman

:)

[AWD]

15. Wow

Unreal how some people would rather attack a Dem than dare to praise their own candidate or attack Bush.

[Name removed]

19. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[bearfartinthewoods]

32. maybe because i'm full of doubt and feeling very negative about trying

to sell Dean in PA.

my candidate is a dem that can win and i don't see how that happens with Dean. we have to either have two southern states or Pa and i don't see us getting PA with a guy who disses people respect for their religion and promises a tax raise. so that means we need a couple southern state to win...

which southern states do you see Dean taking?

here is a map you can play with if you aren't familar with the problem.

http://www.johnedwards2004.com/map

[Scott Lee]

23. Lie. 31% are still unsure, no polling inquiry as to who "disliked" him

Maybe you should stick to facts instead of making shit up about the polls, donchathink?

[bearfartinthewoods]

25. maybe you should learn the difference between 'do not favor' and dislike

you may apologize for calling me a liar anytime....

[eissa]

2. I'm happy, but

Lieberman is second?! I don't get this!!

[bearfartinthewoods]

6. this is what i'm talking about

when i say PA is at risk this cycle.

[bobbyboucher]

20. Keep up the bad work

I know somebody somewhere is proud of you.

[JVS]

9. Name recognition maybe

[bearfartinthewoods]

30. that may have been true six months ago but with the publicity Dean

has gotten, we have to start factoring in that he is getting extra points based on name recognition now.

[Cheswick2.0]

13. this is a religious state

William Penn started a state where religion was able to take hold and flourish because he insisted on protecting the rights of all religions to practice without interference. Did you know that Pa was one of the first states where catholics were afforded full rights of citizenship?

There is also a very strong ecumenical atmosphere here along with a strong Jewish community. As a result people tend to like candidates who wear their faith on the outside. They trust people of faith whether they are the same religion or not.

No doubt name recognition also has something to do with Joe's support here.

[tishaLA]

31. Lieberman has had the support of Gov. Rendell

although he hasn't officially endorsed him.

[QC]

4. Wow--I've never seen such a high margin-of-error before.

Is that common?

[slinkerwink]

11. it must be a small sample size but dean's outside the marginoferror

and that counts.

[slinkerwink]

5. that's great news!

[Bombtrack]

10. PA doesn't have an early enough primary(one that could possibly matter)

just thought you people should realize that

[Cheswick2.0]

14. yeah but we have a hell of a lot of electoral votes

just thought you should realize that.

[slinkerwink]

34. how many?

[JVS]

37. 21 in 2004

[bearfartinthewoods]

28. sweet tea...what a perfect example

i just posted, in another thread that i feared the Dean camp had lost sight of what this is all about. it is not about Dean winning the primary. it is about a dem winning the presidency.

[PaDUer]

33. By the time a primary is held in PA..

it doesn't matter.
From what I've seen and heard here, the Scranton area is backing Gephardt, even though I don't..

[Cheswick2.0]

12. to understand Pa you have to live here

It doesn't suprize me a bit that "not sure" is winning. Democrats carried this state in 2000 only because of the three major urban areas. Philly, Pittsburgh and Scranton WilkesBarre. The Scranton
Wilkesbarre area will be republican one day soon because the people are anti choice and anti gun control. They vote democratic because of tradition. You can thank the local catholic church for much of the party's problem in this area. People here are religious and they get pro-life preached at them on a weekly basis. Democrats around here vote for Santorum!

Rendell carried this area in his election, not because democrats voted for him anyway (most of us did, but not by large enough margins to give him the win). He won because republicans who are pro-choice and in favor of sensible gun control crossed over. Many of these people would be democrats if much of the local democratic machine didn't smell like rotten eggs.

[mrgorth]

18. Good points

The catholic church is killing dems. Catholics used to be dems because of the pro-labor angle. Now, because of choice and gay rights we've lost all the hardcore catholics.

[bearfartinthewoods]

29. plus the promise of property tax RELIEF

and a pitiful pubbie opponent. if the Lt Gov would have run it may have been a different story.

one of the main industries in the central part of the state is housing components so the recession has not hit that area because of the low interest rates. bush is popular around here. the war is supported around here. i can't sell a guy who wants to raise taxes and doesn't support iraq. if the cities don't hold, we are about to become a blue state.

[PaDUer]

35. Scranton is hmmm...

Scranton is really not pro-life..In 2000, a small group of pro-lifers protested Gore when he came here...However, there's a lot of things going on in Scranton such as this email I received the other day and a link you can read about that explains a little more of what goes on in Scranton and what kind of power the church has and how things have been silenced to an extent.
The old bishop suppported Casey, D, who's entire family are supposedly devout catholics, who ran against Rendell. As far as the new bishop is concerned, I don't know who he supports and where contributions are going. The reason Rendell didn't pull many votes in the Scranton area was because the bishop loves the Casey family and the entire area was pissed because they felt people should overwhelmingly vote for Casey, their own home-grown cabbage.

Link to info-
http://www.saintjustinmartyr.org/news/notices.html

the email-
Dear Friends,

For the past two weeks I have been flooded with emails asking about the status of the Society of St. John, a homosexual cult composed of diocesan clerics in the Diocese of Scranton. Those emailing me have asked me to confirm that the new bishop of Scranton has suppressed all the diocesan rite traditional groups in the Diocese of Scranton, including the SSJ. My response in each case has been to say that I have heard the same persistent rumor, but that there has been no formal announcement of such from the Diocese of Scranton.

It would be wonderful, of course, if Bishop Martino suppressed the SSJ for the right reason, namely, that their two top priests, Fr. Carlos Urrutigoity and Fr. Eric Ensey, have molested boys and young men, that they have lied to cover up their wrongdoing, and that others in the SSJ have lied to protect these predator priests. Sadly, Bishop Martino is not likely to take such action. Assuming his silence indicates that he is cut from the same cloth as the vast majority of American bishops, Bishop Martino will not suppress the SSJ for immoral activity while there is an ongoing federal lawsuit accusing these priests of homosexual molestation. His diocesan attorneys have no doubt instructed him to remain quiet so that the plaintiff's case will not be strengthened. This is what American bishops call "protecting the Church."

It is possible, of course, that Bishop Martino may officially suppress the SSJ for their attachment to the Latin Mass. That way he could plausibly deny that the SSJ had been suppressed for their immorality. A sign that this may be what Bishop Martino has in mind is the fact that he has already suppressed the Servants Minor of St. Francis, a Latin Mass community led by Fr. Gabriel. Fr. Gabriel apparently refused to say the novus ordo Mass. It may also be the case that Fr. Gabriel is being punished for having told the truth about the SSJ in his deposition.

I have been told that the two SSJ deacons--James Lane and Joseph Levine--have been ordered to go into the diocesan seminary or not be ordained. James Lane had already left the SSJ, but Joseph Levine is a true believer in the SSJ's cult leader, Carlos Urrutigoity. Levine's being ordered to enter the diocesan seminary would suggest that the SSJ will either be dissolved or told to reform itself along novus ordo lines. Since the SSJ has no principled attachment to anything other than its own survival and cult mentality, it seems likely the SSJ would agree to say the novus ordo in order to save its skin. This may well explain the SSJ's recent efforts to polish up their image in the diocese by ingratiating themselves with the local novus ordo parish in Shohola, a group for which the SSJ had nothing but contempt only a short while ago. I will have more to report on this matter in another letter.

If Bishop Martino has suppressed, or plans to suppress the SSJ, then the SSJ should not be allowed to continue their fraudulent fundraising. Nevertheless, their Christmas appeal is already in circulation. I encourage anyone receiving this emaiI to telephone the SSJ at 570/685-5151 to ask if indeed the SSJ has been suppressed or is in the process of being reformed.

I would also encourage you to contact Bishop Martino to ask him the official status of the SSJ. His telephone number is [phone]. Better yet, ask him during his first appearance on "Ask the Bishop," a live call-in program scheduled for this Thursday, December 11, from 3:00 to 4:00 pm. The number to call is [phone] or [phone].

Pax vobiscum,

Dr. Jeffrey M. Bond
President
College of St. Justin Martyr
142 Market Road
Greeley, PA 18425
570/685-5945
[e-mail]
www.SaintJustinMartyr.org

[Cheswick2.0]

39. that was in the primary, not the general election

Everything your are outlining in that post is talking about the primary. After that Carey was out and gracefully threw his support and efforts behind Rendell. Scanton-WilkesBarre most certainly is pro-life. The catholic church here is huge and powerful.

When we did phone banks democrat after democrat called Rendell an abortionist in response to our calls. He won each country by very small margins compared the percentage of registered Democratic party voters.

I don't think people here are supporting Gephardt, the party might be and the union biggies who have gotten involved at this point. In general the average democrat around here could give a shit or even tell you who is running.

[Paulie]

16. MOE of 7.8 %%%%

That's a BS Poll. Add or subtract 7.8 from every number, what do you get? Most everyone around the same thing.

And 158 responders? Total CRAP!

[a_lil_wall_fly]

17. Pitiful poll..a MOE of greater than 4%

This poll is BS to the extreme a MOE of 7.8... and a sample of only 158... as well only two candidates are out of the running.....with a undecided of 31% is okay but the rest is BS

THIS PENN POLL is :puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke:

[IronLionZion]

21. PA rules!

but it is very diverse politically. Philly is solid Dem, Pitt is like 50/50 and much of the rural areas are Republican. I still don't know how the Green party got Windber, but anyway.

The Dem nominee really needs to bust ass in PA because it could easily swing either way. And its a big state with lots of electoral votes.

[IronLionZion]

22. oh and we have a Jewish Democrat as Governor

[JVS]

26. Actually I think that the Philly suburbs are the swing areas

Pittsburgh and the surrounding areas are pretty solid


2000


1996


1992


1988


1984


1980


1976


1972


1968


1964


1960

Only when those counties right next to Philadelphia go Republican do Republicans have a good shot of winning

[Township75]

27. Another PA voter here...

Dems have recently had their asses handed to them in this state, and the only thing that keeps the party afloat is labor, which is dying with the steel and mining industry.

Philly is solid Dem, Pitt is around 35/65 in favor of Dem, but the center of the state is 100% solid Repub, and they have enough population to completely cancel all of Philly and some of Pitt. The northeast and northwest decide the election. They are socially consevative, they HATE abortion and gun control, but they do have a labor presence.

Rendell won in 2k2 for a few reasons...the primary being the awful economy and his good economic record in Philly, this brought to use the northeast, and one county in the southwest. Additionally, the repubs put forward an awful candidate that even their base didn't like (i.e. Mike Fisher).

This state is not a Dem lock by any means...but it isn't a repub lock either. I am curiuos as to how the steel mill workers in PA will react to Bush's tariffs...putting them in place was way more than Clinton ever did, but then he retracted them. I don't know how they will look at it.

Dems are going to be hurt on gun control big time here, but if Dean is the nominee, that issue may become irrelevant, since he and Bush are about the same on the issue.

Bottom line, swing state, a ton of EVs on the line, and we better work our butts of for htis one.

[PaDUer]

36. KICK n/t

[Township75]

38. Kick*

*