Looking for opinions re: Teen Sex

[Xithras]

Poll question: Looking for opinions re: Teen Sex

I was talking with a co-worker over lunch today and he relayed to me a small moral dilemma that cropped up over the weekend.

Saturday night, my co-worker and his wife went out to dinner and left their two kids in the care of their 12 year old neighbor, who has babysat countless times in the past without incident. They were supposed to be out until approximately 1AM, but his wife wasn't feeling well and they ended up back home at about 10:30PM.

When he reentered the house, he found his 12 year old babysitter engaged in vigorous and apparently quite consensual sex with a 17 year old boy that lives a few houses down. My co-worker was very angry (what if his 2 year old had woke up and found them like that?) and fired her on the spot, but he's now torn as to whether to take it any further. Like many people, he understands that teens will have sex, but there are other considerations in this case. In California, what the 17 year old boy did was not only a crime, it's a felony. By not turning him in, he is helping to conceal a felony and could be sued or even charged with abetting for not reporting what he saw. On the other hand, turning the kid in for having consensual sex with a fellow minor will brand him with a "Convicted Sex Offender" label that will follow him for the rest of his life. He is also concerned that the sex was unprotected, and that this girl may be exposing herself to pregnancy, disease, or worse by engaging in this kind of activity at her age.

To complicate matters, her parents are extreme fundies who apparently see their little girl as innocent and virginal, and who would react unpredictably to the news that their daughter was sleeping around. He once saw the father belt their 15 year old son across the face for saying "goddammit" and using Gods name in vain, and is worried about their reaction to this much more serious problem.

Moral quandary time. Opinions?

[stopthegop]

1. re: mind his own business...

the girl is TWELVE....what about it taking a village and all of that?

[Xithras]

5. I tend to agree

Personally, it's her age that got to me. If she was even 14 I wouldn't have thought twice about it and would have told him to mind his own business, but 12 is still elementary school in many areas. As the father of a 10 year old with way too many years between me and my teenage self, I was wondering if I was being a bit biased or unrealistic though.

OTOH, would you be willing to send this boy to jail for having CONSENSUAL sex with another minor? In the words of my co-worker "It obviously wasn't her first time", so should this boy face possible conviction simply because he was unlucky enough to be the one that got caught?

[stopthegop]

11. yeah...but it's a valid question in my mind ..

whether most 12 year olds can really 'consent'...informed consent at least

[Xithras]

18. So where does 'Informed Consent' begin?

I guess that's the real underlying issue to the whole thing. I can deal with 14 year olds having sex, because I had sex the first time at that age and I can remember the hormonal impulses that drove it. But, as far as "Informed Consent" goes, how much more informed is a 14 year old than a 13 or even a 12 year old (I don't know if it's relevant or not, but the girl will actually be 13 next month)? Is it ever possible, or acceptable, for a 12 year old to give consent?

As I've already said, this is only a quandary because we're talking about destroying the life of a 17 year old boy, and I want to make sure he deserves it before I'll make that recommendation. If the guy was 18 and an adult, there would be no question or debate, I'd be calling the police myself.

[seventhson]

51. agreed

in some states 13 year olds can legally have sex (it is not a juvenile criminal offense)as long as the other person is not more than two years older (it is a crime for the older kid)

so if the kids are 2 years and one day apart in age their having sex is illegal until the younger kid is sixteen.

The fact that she is ALMOST 13 underscores the sometime absurdity of enforcement of such laws.

[7th_Sephiroth]

26. She Consented

She knew what she was doing, just because we make it illegal for people to even THINK about sex til thier 18 doesent mean they wont know about it, the person, and the body is ready for sex at that age, its part of nature, how this barbaric age of consent being 18 came to pass, i dont know (prolly fundy parents who see thier daughters as sweet virginal angels diddent want thier dreams shattered so easily, probably) but is IS BARBARIC, it goes against nature, and the way we punish people is worse, the sex offender registry is one of the most facist things i have ever seen, a modern day scarlet letter, so to speak, you cant get work with it, you can't get a house with it, it was basically designed for people on it to commit suicide.

[sendero]

2. Sucks to be in that position..

.... I really would have a tough time making a decision about that.

>>To complicate matters, her parents are extreme fundies who apparently see their little girl as innocent and virginal,

Ever notice how common it is for the kids of the fundie types to be out of control? If this girl is having sex at 12 she will be in big trouble by the time she is 15 and her family will likely be no help at all. Sad.

[patriotvoice]

3. Minding his own business, but...

... let the girl know that, while that behaviour was unacceptible and will not allow her to regain employment, he understands the urges and desires and should urge her to talk to her parents, but at the very least, visit a doctor's office (eg Planned Parenthood) to speak with a nurse/counselor or to pick up literature. Perhaps being extra helpful and picking up literature for her.

[tjwash]

4. I definitely would have fired her....

...And someone should call CPS on the parents for the rest of the abusive behavior.

Belting someone on the face? A lot of times someone gets killed in an abusive relationship like that, and a lot of times, and it's not the abuser.

[afraid_of_the_dark]

64. I agree... If you're worried about what the parents will do to her

if you talk to them about it, you need to talk to Child Protective Services.

For gods sake... she's twelve! And the guy is five years older than her! I think you'd be doing her (and her family) a serious disservice if you kept your mouth shut.

I'll be wishing you luck and strength for whatever decision you make.

[rucky]

6. 12?! good god! i need to read the entire post first

"CALL CPS" is the right decision.

[Lars39]

7. I do not agree at all that he should mind his own business and forget it.

The 17 yo is a predator. The 12 yo is a victim even if the sex was "consensual". He needs to report this ASAP.

[slackmaster]

8. He could be charged as an accessory for failing to call the police

Sorry, but that's the law.

http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/displaycode?section=pen&group=00001-01000&file=30-33

If the girl gets pregnant or contracts an STD the shit is going to hit the fan. Planned Parenthood et al cannot legally conceal that kind of information from the parents of a 12-year-old because in California it would be de facto proof that a felony had been committed.

[seventhson]

28. I don't read the law the same way

remaining silent is a constitutional right (or is supposed to be)

he is not hiding or aiding the boy actively by remaining silent.

The harm done to these children's lives by being dragged into an insane child protection or criminal system , I would venture, FAR outweighs the potential harm from consensual sex.

I think the children both need to be talked to and the girl should be asked if it WAS consensual.

If it was coerced in any way then the boy should be reported. But if she has been active and is active with this boy (her boyfriend?) then reporting them may destroy their lives.

She needs to be counselled by someone who can make sure she is okay (but who will respect her privacy) a tough call and tough to find.

Rabid fundies might harm their daughter - but she needs some help.

I think I agree with the wife. --- unless the girl is seriously in danger.

I work witrh girls in the innmer city. Youn girls do have sex and get pregnant. It is often extremely difficult for them. But psychologically and economically often society's reaction is worse.

Birth control? sex education? she needs to get to planned parenthood or somewhere quick and unless she WANTS to ruin this boy's life she needs to make sure that she exercises her right to remain silent about who she is sleeping with.

How do the females here feel???

I think men may have a double standard. I would have DIED to have sex when I was twelve and it probably would have been FANTASTIC! My friends who did at 12 or 13 were RAGING about how great it was. But I probably was not ready. Should I have been protected from sexy 17 year old girls? I do NOT think so.

[slackmaster]

30. You can remain silent only to protect yourself or your spouse

Not to harbor a criminal who isn't related to you.

he is not hiding or aiding the boy actively by remaining silent.

Sure he is. He's keeping the boy out of the justice system which is exactly where he belongs.

What about the next 12-year-old girl the kid talks into bed? Shouldn't somebody do something to protect her?

The harm done to these children's lives by being dragged into an insane child protection or criminal system , I would venture, FAR outweighs the potential harm from consensual sex.

The courts have a lot of options short of all that. I believe the girl's parents and even the girl herself would have some say as to whether criminal charges would be pressed.

Birth control? sex education? she needs to get to planned parenthood or somewhere quick and unless she WANTS to ruin this boy's life she needs to make sure that she exercises her right to remain silent about who she is sleeping with.

I agree, but Planned Parenthood can't do anything for a 12-year-old without parental consent.

[seventhson]

35. harboring means hiding him and supporting him

not staying quiet about it

There is a crime called misprision of a felony which means failing to report a crime (a felony)but that is different from harboring and I would argue the misprision law is UnConstitutional.

I think a clinic could counsel her.

Problem is it depends on the state if they would do it

[slackmaster]

45. In california law the term misprision is applied only to treason

I'm talking about California's definition of "accessory", nothing (necessarily) to do with harboring.

[Xithras]

34. FYI, you just swung the decision

I've been forwarding some of the comments in this thread to my co-worker via email and I copied in the contents of the link you posted...it freaked him out. He was aware that there were laws that made concealment a crime, but if he and I read that right, it would actually be a felony. He replied back that he can't take that risk (he has his own family to worry about) and that he would be calling the police when he gets off work in 20 minutes.

The funny thing is, he was leaning in the "just forget about it" direction up until he saw that. As an educator, ANY felony conviction, especially a conviction for aiding or concealing the molesting of a 12 year old minor, would mean an instant end to his entire career.

That put it all in perspective.

[seventhson]

36. Before he does that tell him to consult an attorney quick

he may have liability problems as well if he blows the whistle and drops the dime which he might not have if he let's it blow over.

I dealt with a similar case once. It was handled privately and it worked out fine.

He needs a lawyer not a DU poll.

By the way - I am an attorney and other attorney's might disagree. I am NOT an attorney in California though and each state is different.

These are human lives at stake.

But to determine his rights and obligations under the law to make an informed decision - he needs to ask for such an opinion. Quickly.

It will be well worth it and his confidentiality will be assured.

[Xithras]

42. How so?

What liability problems would he face from turning them in? He's sitting here in my office now and you just piqued his curiosity (and mine).

[seventhson]

44. I think a lawyer in your state should answer that

It is not the turning in part that creates liabilities - it is the fact that it happened in his house and that he failed to report it sooner.

Suppose it was a forced rape. The fact that the house was not secure might create a liability.

Depending on what happened when he discovered them and how he TELLS the police might place him at risk of charges.

He needs an attorney to walk him through it or at least advise him.

[Xithras]

50. That is a good point.

I don't think he thought about that. Since the rape (whether statutory or forced, it's still rape in my book) happened on Saturday night, the police might not look kindly on the fact that he waited until Tuesday night to call.

As to what happened, the boy ran out the back door, his clothes in his hands, and the girl sat there begging that they not tell her parents until they ordered her out of the house.

He's calling his attorney right now to try and catch him before he leaves for the day.

Of course, something else just occurred to me that might negate this entire discussion. What happens if he calls the police and bothkids deny that it ever happened? Can they even investigate in that situation?

[seventhson]

52. They can always investigate and child protection will too

and they may investigate the fact that your friend's child was left with this irresponsible 12 year old.

Invoking the authorities in this repressive culture can lead to a messload of trouble.

[Xithras]

54. FYI, the lawyers reply

Well, he got his lawyer on the phone and got some quick advice (that he will get billed for, I'm sure). The lawyer advised that he call to cover himself legally and that he just make it clear that he thought it was consensual and just discovered his legal responsibilities today. The lawyer said that he'd never heard of someone in his situation being prosecuted, and that those laws are primarily used to bust parents who allow their young children to have sex, or to bust adults that provide locations for teen prostitutes. To cover himself legally (primarily from the possibility of a civil suit down the line) he was advised to call anyway.

Interestingly, the lawyer didn't seem to think that anything would come of it. Unless the 12 year old claims that it was forced, he didn't seem to think that it would proceed much past the "filing a report" stage, though DA's can be unpredictable. If both kids denied it happened, then it's almost a guarantee that nothing will come of it because there is no physical evidence at this point.

[seventhson]

56. Not surprised at all

but I still think reporting it will have consequences that are unforeseen and miserable.

Let me know and tell him good luck

[slackmaster]

48. Amen

He needs a lawyer not a DU poll.

:toast:

[slackmaster]

47. He could always talk to a criminal defense lawyer first

Before deciding what to do.

[KissMyAsscroft]

9. I think your co-worker should talk to both kids alone...

Tell them if it ever happens again, he will report them and spell out what the consequences are.

I don't think it's a good idea to ruin the kids' lives for a mistake they made. If it was consensual, they shouldn't have thier lives ruined with a felony or a beating or worse.

Just scare the bejeesus out of them so they never do it again.

And I dont think your friend is going to be charged with aiding and abetting anything. If the 17 year old is talked to and scared enough he will never talk to that girl again.

[Whitacre D_WI]

10. Holy fuck...

I mean... I think it's bullshit that in some states an 18-year old can sleep with a 16-year old, and the law calls it "rape."

That said, can a 12-year old really consent? 18 is a completely fucking stupid age of consent (I knew what I was doing well before 18) -- but TWELVE???

Fucking Christ, I was playing with G.I. Joes when I was 12.

I don't know what your co-worker should do. I know that when I was 17, I thought that sex with a 12-year-old was fucking SICK. I can't give your friend any advice, I'm sorry about that. And I'm not someone to tell teens not to have sex -- IF THEY ARE a) WITH PEERS, and b) KNOW WHAT THE FUCK THEY'RE GETTING INTO. Still, this is way fucked up.

My best wishes to your friend, Xithras. He needs all the wishes he can get.

[Angelus]

12. He should mind his own business.

Obviously, if they were having sex, and she wasn't struggling, then it was 100% consensual. They shouldn't feel like they should do something about it. Just leave it alone...no matter how sick it is.

[Xithras]

14. What if she was 11? 10? 8?

Sorry, I can't agree with the argument that consensual sex is always OK.

[Angelus]

17. I don't know....

12 is a little young...but...she did consent.

Maybe your co-worker should turn the 17 year old in anyways, even if it was consensual. That's just sick.

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

13. Fundie parents need to know. Their deal what to do with the knowledge,

whether to accept and deal accordingly, go the complete denial route, fly off the handle etc. Essentially their daughter is the victim of statutory rape and they have a right/need to know about this.

I agree though, it is a seriously screwed up household if a Dad is smacking his FIFTEEN YEAR OLD son in public. Hard to imagine what their home life is like.

[nosmokes]

15. th fundie parents don't need to know if they're gonna abuse

their daughter, which sounds like a possiblity here, right?

the 17 yo's parents need to be told and both kids need to be talked with, but i'd tread carefully re: ratting out the daughter to parents where the dad clobbering his teen offspring.

this is a seriously effed up deal.

[slackmaster]

23. The girl's parents have a legal right to know

Nobody can provide any kind of STD screening or treatment, contraception, counseling, abortions, etc. to a 12-year-old without notifying the parents.

[Xithras]

25. Very possible

The dad is a very devoted "spare the rod and spoil the child" type, and is both extremely religious and an ex-Marine. My co-worker said that he's never seen either his neighbor or his wife raise their hands or their voices to their daughter, but that they have to their sons on several occasions. I don't know whether that's because they believe in being more gentle with daughters, or whether she maintains an act to keep them from punishing her, but it's hard to say how they would react to this news.

[Nikia]

16. Well the 17 year old boy is wrong

I know that this sounds rather conservative and preachy of me, but I think that a boy over the age of 16 having sex with someone who is not yet high school age age is horrible. He is taking advantage of a little girl. Of course I don't know the girl in question, but why would a 17 year old be sexually attracted to a 12 year old and what could he possibly get out of a relationship with her besides using her. Every girl is different in regards of mental sexual maturity as far as when their hormones kick in, having sexual urges, but as an early physical bloomer, I didn't get those urges until I was 15. Most girls in sixth and seventh grade, which this girl must be in, didn't talk about wanting to have sex and many thought that it was disgusting at that age. Personally, I'd confront the boy myself (well, probably with my husband)and depending on how he takes the confrontation would determine whether or not I call the police.
Even assuming that the girl was unuausually sexually mature for her age, there is a good chance that she has not been probably educated about pregnancy, stds, and such especially considering her parents. Unfortuantely it sounds like her parents would not be good people to have that talk with her. Perhaps the coworker and his wife should have that talk with her or suggest that she go to Planned Parenthood regardless.

[jayavarman]

19. 12 years old?? & 17

Damn, what's that, a high school junior or senior banging a 5th or 6th grader??

That's just fucked up

[Bombtrack]

21. More like 7th or 8th

it's not uncommon. Usually junior high kids who are active are doin it are doing it others with not as old as 17, but high school chicks going out with guys 5 years older is practically the norm

[Bombtrack]

20. Newsflash

"He is also concerned that the sex was unprotected, and that this girl may be exposing herself to pregnancy, disease, or worse by engaging in this kind of activity at her age."

Anytime at any age, anyone has sex it "might be unprotected" and therefor "might be exposing herself to pregnancy, disease, or worse"

People of this generation start banging at younger ages than in previous American generations. It isn't something to get up in arms about. And the consent laws are idiotic. Guys have always gone for younger partners and 12 is not an uncommon age to start for the more eager to mature among youths.

Nothing good can come of making a big deal of it.

[Nikia]

32. What do a 17 year old and a 12 year have in common?

At that age, a few years makes a big difference. A 17 year is aiming towards adulthood and a 12 year is still a child. Alright, when I was 17, my two youngest friends, who I had known since I was 12, were 12. That was considered odd though. Friends my own age asked why I wanted to spend time with little kids. I was just friends with them. They looked up to me. I would never have dreamed of taking advantage of them or try to get them to fast forward to adulthood.
The reason that guys look for younger partners evolutionarily is so that his woman will be able to bear more children for him. Although some girls are menstrating and fertile at this age, in less nutrtionally wealthy cultures, the age of fertility is around 15 or 16 and thus usually the youngest age that adult or near adult men desire are women of that age. Like I said, I don't know the girl, but it is not normal for near adults to want to have sex with a girl who hasn't grown into a woman yet.

[Bombtrack]

53. Your "one is a child" one is a near adult argument is so semantic

some people would call a 17 year old a child, and some would call some 12 year olds a young woman.

Something being "not normal" is your opinion based on probably what was "the norm" when you were that age. But I'm betting I know more people on a social level closer to that age than you and was in between that age at at a more recent time. Maybe you think that it is sleazy, but that is your opinion. I won't defend the 17 year old from the possibility of sleaziness, but I will defend the act from the definitive need for judging them to the degree that another person would feel the need to rat them out.

Deciding to have sex does not need the prerequisite of people having things in common.

[Nikia]

57. I have 2 siblings that age

My half brother and half sister are both 13. My best friend's older daughter is 13 too. They don't drink, smoke, party, or date. They look like children. They have some interest in the opposite sex but they don't seem to be interested in losing their virginity anytime soon.
Maybe that makes my opinion a projection. Yes, I'd want to hurt any 17 year old who would use any of those kids that way. At that age, that age difference is huge and I cannot think what else a relationship could be besides a younger teen looking up to the older teen and the older teen taking advantage of that purely for sexual gratification and control. Once a teen has reached high school age, that is different, but a lot of maturing in all aspects goes on in middle school and the teen begins to be seen as a pseudo adult (able to get a job, get a driver's permit, and other responsibilities and opportunities).

[Mz Pip]

22. He needs to report it

to CPS or to the girls parents.

This happened in HIS house. He could end up being liable if the parents found out that it happended and he knew about it.

A high school acquaintance of my son did some time in Juvenile Hall for having consentual sex with a 15 year old girl. The boy was 14 but they were drinking and the girl got nervous that her boyfriend would find out so she clained it was rape. The boy's parents weren't home when this happened so they got hit with legal bills, as well. It was a huge mess.

Sex with a 12 year old is a felony and covering it up could bring him a whole lot of grief if it came out that he knew and didn't do anything.

MzPip
:dem:

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

24. It's in times like these I'm glad some people named after Pretenders songs

are no longer around.

Else we would be reading about anyone who doesn't feel an irresistible urge to personally shoot the 17yo's nuts is in league with Al Qaeda.

[Pithlet]

55. If you're talking about who I think you are

They never posted in the lounge, anyway. But you're right.

As far as the OP's co-worker's dilemma: I don't know. This is a tough one. I would probably go to the parents first.

[Westegg]

27. 12 is probably too young to babysit...

...It's also probably too young to have sex, but, hey, whatever. That's what all the kids are doing now. (I ain't gonna moralize on that score. Someone else do it for me, please.) Point is, if your pre-teenage babysitter is getting the high hard one from the local stud, chances are she isn't giving a good goddamn about your children. Duh. What's it matter that her parents are Jesus freaks? What's that got to do with caring for other people's children? (From your presumably serious post: "What if this two year old had woke up and found them like that?" Uh, the two-year-old wouldn't have understood what was going hence, would remain unscarrred. More to the point: how about if the two-year-old had woken up and had some medical problem that needed attention while the babysitter was doing her presumably pathetic best to be a 12-year-old lay?)

Hey, I once thought I was all wild 'n' crazy because I got a BJ at age 14, back in the '80s. And back then, I was! But these days, sex is different for teens. So...maybe these parents should hire someone a bit more responsible to look after their kids.

[seventhson]

29. On remaining silent

a reiteration:

remaining silent is a constitutional right (or is supposed to be)

he is not hiding or aiding the boy actively by remaining silent.

The harm done to these children's lives by being dragged into an insane child protection or criminal system , I would venture, FAR outweighs the potential harm from consensual sex.

I think the children both need to be talked to and the girl should be asked if it WAS consensual.

If it was coerced in any way then the boy should be reported. But if she has been active and is active with this boy (her boyfriend?) then reporting them may destroy their lives.

She needs to be counselled by someone who can make sure she is okay (but who will respect her privacy) a tough call and tough to find.

Rabid fundies might harm their daughter - but she needs some help.

I think I agree with the wife. --- unless the girl is seriously in danger.

I work witrh girls in the inner city. Young girls do have sex and get pregnant. It is often extremely difficult for them. But psychologically and economically often society's reaction is worse than the relationship or the sex itself. Pregnancy and disease though are the real problem.

Birth control? sex education? she needs to get to planned parenthood or somewhere quick and unless she WANTS to ruin this boy's life she needs to make sure that she exercises her right to remain silent about who she is sleeping with.

How do the females here feel???

I think men may have a double standard. I would have DIED to have sex when I was twelve and it probably would have been FANTASTIC! My friends who did at 12 or 13 were RAGING about how great it was. But I probably was not ready. Should I have been protected from sexy 17 year old girls? I do NOT think so.

[ForrestGump]

31. If I didn't have it when I was a teen, nobody else should be able to

dammit

[iconoclastic cat]

33. I have yet to hear the obvious:

Where did she get this level of expertise? Ask a shrink: Very early sexual behavior is often a sign of sexual abuse by a family member.

[Alenne]

37. That was my first thought

I had two friends who were sexually active when we were 12. One had been molested and the other was being molested.

[Xithras]

39. Interesting point

I'm not sure how true that still is today, with the average age of a teens first sexual encounter moving ever lower, but it definitely is a possibility. It might also explain why she's the only kid that her dad doesn't yell at or hit.

Of course, we could be a million miles off here. She could just be a brat with a dad that loves her. Still, I forwarded your comment and suggested that he bring it up to the police when he talks to them.

[Xithras]

38. Thanks for all the replies.

My co-worker asked me to pass on my thanks to all who replied (one of these days I'll get him to register).

He made the decision that, whether it's consensual or not, and whether she's old enough or not, his own legal liabilities have to take precedence. He will be calling the police, and said he'll ALSO advise them of the abuse that he's witnessed and of the possible danger that the girl might be in after her parents find out.

Thanks again for the replies.

[seventhson]

41. Tell him to consult and attorney first

he could inadvertently get himself in more trouble calling the police

[nini]

40. ask a lawyer

as far as hiring he back as the wife suggests... was it ok with them she have anyone else in the house.. not to mention using it as a bordelo.

I don't think I'd want her back for the simple reason she violated my trust and my home with her antics. She was hired to babysit.. not for you to provide her a place to fool around.

[Xithras]

43. His wife...

Apparently fooled around quite a bit as a younger teen, and doesn't see it as a big deal. My friend just told me that hiring her back, or even letting her in the house again, are just arent going to happen.

[nini]

46. I'd call a lawyer to make sure she can't somehow turn the tables

.. on them somehow. I'd be worried that her parents would find out she was doing this and they allowed it by not letting someone else know. I wouldn't put anything past a 12 year old that is already that experienced.

No one is going to stop her from having sex - I'd be worried about a statutory rape charge that she could say your friends were aware of but said nothing.


on edit: I'm not saying to bust her to her parents or cops,, but to cover their own butts. I woudlnt' tell anyone either unless it could come back to haunt ME as it was in my house and I caught them.

[seventhson]

49. That makes sense

it is too risky to let her back in.

She may have been doing it for months.


But the wife is right and every situation is different.

Maybe the wife should talk to the girl and you should talk to the boy (he is after all practically a child himself in many ways)

sex is natural

the law is not usually

But lawyer could tell him whether he is at risk and advise him what his risks are (or are not).


Every one of us got here through the act of sex (almost) it is as old as humanity to do what these kids were doing. In other cultures it is normal.

But the girl MAY be at serious risk without some help.

so legal advice is best before intervening and forever altering all these peoples' lives

[yardwork]

58. What a mess.

It sounds like he does need to talk with an attorney.

My first instinct would be to tell the girl's parents. She is a minor. No seventeen year old has any business having sex with a twelve year old girl. That is predatory behavior, and the people responsible for protecting the girl are her parents.

On the other hand, he needs to take a hard look at what is happening in that family, too. If they abuse their son in public, heaven knows what they will do to their daughter.

They can't just forget it. How will they feel if the girl ends up with HIV, hepatitis, herpes, or pregnant?

[Guy Fawkes]

59. As I see it...

People my age are having sex at an alarming rate. This realy disturbs me... Over the weekend, someone I know OD'ed on drugs and was found sh*ting all over this guys' house. After she passed out in the backyard, they took her to the hospital.

Now, why was a 16 year old girl found naked, ODed on drugs, and sh*ting all over some one elses' house? I don't know. I just hope she doesn't kill herself.

And a 13 year old, who just got out of jail for saying "I have a gun" in school, is having sex with a 30 year old man.

There is something wrong with our world... And I don't know what. But g-d help us all... g-d help us all.

[iconoclastic cat]

60. I'll say it again: Behavior does not occur in a vacuum.

All of my life, I have had more female friends than male friends. About a quarter of them have told me about varying levels of abuse by family members or acquaintances.

But if this girl--like so many other girls and boys--is simply part of the trend, shouldn't we ask why this is so? How and why are human beings becoming sexually active sooner, especially when we are living longer with every generation? Some people blame hormones in meat; others blame the presence of chemicals in drinking water.

My point, though, is that these things are speculation. But one more thing is not only possible, it is written about regularly in scientific journals: Our culture sexualizes--and makes sexual objects of--children. The pre-adolescent desire to conform as a route to social acceptance may be creating psychological pressure that drives this sort of behavior.

People might say, "You're full of crap, Cat. She is choosing to be a hosebeast. If you must blame someone besides her, blame Britney and Christina." Maybe I am full of crap. Anything is possible. But I must say, the much-maligned B.F. Skinner had a at least one good point: a behavior must be reinforced to become the norm.

Where would a 12-year old pick up that behavior, and how would it be reinforced?

[THUNDER HANDS]

61. call the cops on his ass

Anyone who goes after a 12 year old is digusting. I don't care if the kid was 17. Try trolling the high school's next time buddy.

[iconoclastic cat]

62. And by the way, Xithras, could you let us know what happens?

I hope there are not too many unintended consequences.

[SarahB]

63. She's only 12!!!!

He's 17. I have a 12 year old daughter who I am very comfortable discussing things with, but that's a huge age difference at that age. Legally, she cannot consent!!!!
If she were 14 or 15 and he was the same age, no I wouldn't call the police, but 12 and 17, you bet ya. This young man did not use good judgement and obviously she may have some issues as well, but with fundie parents, she's doubtfully getting a "use birth control and be responsible" lecture and needs some protection. I'm usually more of a libertarian on these matters, but I'm sorry, this is just too much.

[geniph]

65. That little girl needs to talk to a professional

and maybe calling CPS is the best way to find someone for her to talk to. A kid that age shouldn't be prey for a 17-year-old. Now, that being said, every kid develops at a different rate, and some are ready at 12, but the VAST majority of 12-year-olds are still children, emotionally unready for sex and its possible consequences.

The one thing I would NOT do in this case is inform her parents, for fear the girl would be physically abused. She's already been sexually abused by the older boy, she doesn't need her dad beating her like an old rug. But she needs to talk to a counselor, BAD.