Should College Athletes be paid?

[Mr. Blonde]

I can see both sides of this. I still lean towards no, but what are other opinions?

[bluestateguy]

1. They already are

Scholarships, free textbooks, free tutoring services, free health care, convenient parking spaces and special treatment by the Administration.

[Mr. Blonde]

3. Ahh, but

not all scholarships are created equal. For the amount of time they spend on their sport they could spend a lot of time at a job. Some are at college with no income because their parents are unable. Free textbooks don't pay for rent, and where did you hear about convenient parking from?

[gpandas]

45. most atheletic scholarships include room and board n/t

[Mr. Blonde]

61. Most

in Football and Basketball. But what about in sports with barely enough scholarships for a starting lineup? Are they going to pay for a big ticket item like room and board for non starters and red shirts?

[Endangered Specie]

95. Lets not forget the free sex.

[FleshCartoon]

2. Paid more?!

They already get too many perks.

[Mr. Blonde]

4. what are

the appropriate amount of perks?

[FleshCartoon]

In an ideal world...

...imo, there would either be sports only universities or regular universities wouldn't have sports programs for the very reason that the focus is primarily on those programs.

So, none, if you're asking me. They're not pros yet--they're just kids studying. Chem students don't get privileges for chosing a chem major, do they?

I like sports, but I don't like the way they are over-indulged in schools.

[Mr. Blonde]

9. What is it that

Bear Bryant said, "No one comes to watch a Chem final" something like that. I'm afraid I don't understand your ideal world could you elaborate?

[FleshCartoon]

12. Not really.

I made it perfectly clear and I think you're just trying to pick a fight, frankly. Sorry if I'm wrong and misunderstood you, but you have made some inane points, imo.

[Mr. Blonde]

19. I truly was not clear

on what you meant by sports only and regular universitys. Do you mean that most universitys will have no sports and some will. I don't understand exactly how that would work.

I'm not trying to fight, I am playing something of the devil's advocate because as I said I do still lean towards no even though I can see where pay would be nice for some athletes.

[FleshCartoon]

27. Here's what I posted:

In an ideal world, imo, there would either be sports only universities or regular universities wouldn't have sports programs for the very reason that the focus is primarily on those programs.

I think that's pretty clear.
:thumbsup:

[Mr. Blonde]

28. I understand

the second half no ath. dept., but still sports only universities? What will they offer art degrees?

[HarveyBriggs]

33. Chem majors ...

Chem majors can take summer jobs in Chem labs, jocks can't take summer jobs in their field.

The NCAA comes close to racketeering the way it controls scholarship athletes.

There are also a lot of schools that exploit athletes by promising them a college education, then overloading them with training and not delivering the education.

Now, who says a chem major can't be a sholarship athlete? You should park your "dumb jock" prejudices.

Me, I posted a 3.51 GPA in Marketing and Business adminstration, and a 6.1 indoors in the 60-yd dash (back when we still ran them in yards). I'm proud of both accomplishments.

Universities ought to exists to enhance all forms of human endeavor -- mind, body and soul.

As an honors student, and as an exceptional athlete, I have just as much contempt for the overweight lit major, or the anemic math geek as I do the dumb jock.

Harvey Briggs

[Pithlet]

75. I also have contempt

for anyone who isn't perfect like me.

[Liberal Veteran]

85. Your ability to run fast is never going to cure cancer though....

....it's a fact.

[andino]

104. Here at the University of Oklahoma....

All athletes get:

1) Free rooms in THE nicest dorms on campus
2) Free food. They also get better food than the rest of us. Every Thursday they got Steak and Shrimp while the rest of us got Sloppy Joe's!!!!
3) Free books. And that includes paper and pens for class
4) Free tutors. They even have people who go to the classes for them and then teach the athletes the information.
5) Free Parking Permits and GREAT parking spaces
6) They get to register first for classes.
7) They get special treatment by the teachers.
8) They all get free passes to any game on campus.
9) They have one of the best computer labs on campus.
10) They have sole access to the best gym on campus.
11) FREE SCHOOL!!!!!

And that's not including all the shit they get from the school boosters.

Yeah, they aren't hurting for anything. If you add it all up the average athlete gets about $17,000 a year in free tuition($2,800 a sem), room($2,750 a sem) , food ($3,000 a sem), and thats not including all the other crap. That's there pay. Oh and a free education.

Sorry for the rant but I am sick of seeing all this poor athlete crap when they have the world handed to them because they can play a game. Especially when I see hundreds of people working their asses off trying to get an education WITHOUT the free ride.

[markdd]

5. Room, Board, ...

Cars, clothes, get out of jail free cards. State financed training venues, state financed game venues. Screw it, make the NFL and the NBA pay for their own damn farm system and get it off of the taxpayers backs!

[HEyHEY]

6. Um don't althletes bring a ton of money in?

When you see a college football stadium filled to the brim with 80,000 people who paid to get in...makes me think it's not on the taxpayer's backs.

[Mikimouse]

16. They do bring in quite a bit of money, but so do researchers...

with a great deal more education and experience, and researchers don't have nrea the perks that student athletes have. They should be students first and athletes second, not the other way around. Thoug, I will add that it is the system that is corrupted. The problem arises from the manner in which student athletes are pampered from junior high school on, through colleges and iniversities. As far as it being on the taxpayers backs, that is also arguable; the current price of a ticket for one of the local football games (the cheapest seats) is $45. No, I have never paid to go to a game.

[HEyHEY]

18. Don't forget money from retail sales of jerseys and stuff

Hey, the researchers may have more education and experience - but it's two different fields, can't really compare the two.

[Mikimouse]

31. You are correct, it is two different fields, but they are in the same ...

venue, and as such should be accorded the same consideration. Researchers and educators bring in a lot of money in terms of grants and such, and in addition, they are required to teach a pre-defined number of courses. I have no real axe to grind with student athletes, but certainly see no reason why they should be treated with any special deference. As I said in anotehr post, it is their choice to do what they do. It is my choice to be an educator/researcher, it is their choice to be student athletes. I also read your later post about the institution doing nothing for your sister's boyfriend. That is typical. If the student cannot compete for any reason, or has played out his/her eligibility, they will be discared like yesterday's trash, without a second thought. That is why I say the system is rotten to the core. I don't blame the students, even though some of them certainly take gross advantage of their athlete status. If a student has played out his/her eligibility and can no longer play for the school, I believe that the school should be responsive to the academic needs of the student to help them finish their degree, but only if the student has made reasonable progress toward the degree already. Many of the student athletes take the most basic introductory basketweaving courses during the years of eligibility, and end up having nothing but broken bones, concussions, and a trip back to the boondocks to show for it. THAT infuriates me!

[Mr. Blonde]

37. I know the current

NCAA rules are pretty stringent on athletes. So much of a degree must be finished by this semester, you must declare by this semester and so on. A regular student has more freedom. Of course I am now in summer school and I now see how athletes stay eligible.

[HEyHEY]

41. They certainly should not be treated special

I've heard stories of big time favouritsm. But on the same hand if they are only going through college to get to the majors, why should they have to take difficult courses?
They have a natural talent and have chosen a different path for their life and for many college is a neccesary pain they must go through to get to their goal.
It's not like in NHL hockey where most of the players come from privately owned junior teams. Those teams arent out there.

But as for being given an easy ride in the courses they take - no favourtism should ever be showed.

[Mikimouse]

56. We essentially agree on those points...

the sticking point, however, is this: You agree that no favouritism should be shown to student athletes. I wholeheartedly agree (and I don't show any of my students favouritism). On the other hand, colleges and universities are supposed to be 'Institutions of Higher Learning', not avenues to a sports career. I would suggest a complete revamping of the system, in order to return to the old definitions of education. OK, I'm old fashioned, I admit it, but it tears me up to see the current state of so-called 'Higher Education' in the US. It is little more than a joke in many ways. A serious restructuring is needed, and if it results in a new system for amateur athletes, and a new avenue for them to use in getting into professional sports, so be it and I wish them Godspeed.

[HEyHEY]

63. For sure but

"colleges and universities are supposed to be 'Institutions of Higher Learning', not avenues to a sports career"

But it's turned out that way over what we'll call....I don't know "evoloution."

These guys have no choice than to do it that way. See if it was like hockey it would be a hell of a lot better. But, I bet the NFL wouldn't want the competition of a private league full of young guys.

[Mikimouse]

72. Now, if it was like Hockey...

We'd probably end up with a bunch of cast offs from the CFL...OH GOD!:evilgrin: Sorry, my friend, I had to lighten up a bit after the last post I responded to (not yours). I agree with you, it is the current avenue to the pros, but what I am saying is that it does not have to be so. Paying student athletes, or providing extra perks for them would be the most divisive thing that we could ever do. I suspect that student sporting activities would suffer for it, as the other students would question the rise in prices (there would be that, no doubt in my mind), and the polarization that would result could do permanenet damage to the institutions. I am all for athletes doing what they choose to do, I do not support the idea of paying them to do it, any more than I would support paying faculty who do not teach (there are quite a number who manage to describe their courses in such a way as to discourage students from taking the courses and they still get their regular salary if the course doesn't 'make'. Some of my student athletes have, in fact, sought me out for advice about coursework, and have approached me with problems related to their sports schedule. One of my more promising students, a football linebacker, was told by one of his new coaches that his practice schedule for the Spring had changed and he would no longer be able to attend one of his afternoon classes-mine. He was enjoying the course and doing fairly well, so this presented a real problem for him. I made some phone calls and some office visits to clear up the matter, and for once, was successful in pushing my point. He has since graduated and I am very happy for him. He was allowed to move his practice time back an hour in order to finish the course. I would do the same for any student of mine, and in fact have done similar things for quite a few of them. You cannot help to educate people from a distance, especially in my discipline.

[HarveyBriggs]

54. Your wrong, Mikimouse

I've seen some mighty fine reseachers walk off campus and into a patent office and end up very wealthy.

You're also overlooking book deals.

Most of the researchers I know who can bring in the big-ticket grants are treated exceptionally well on campus, particularly if those research skills are salable outside of academia. That same thing holds true for athletes, as well.

Many athletes don't enjoy near the perks you're imagining. Most -- even the best in their fields go unrecognized.

Yes, there are football and basketball stars who do receive perks. But if you think those perks are enough to compensate them for their practice time, travel and game time, you're sadly mistaken, Most students don't put the time into studying that athletes put into training. As for the money they bring in, most graduate assistants get paid a lot more of the grant money they bring in, than an athlete does. I should know. I was a scholarship athlete, I put a wife through a PhD and Post-Doc program in molecular biology.

Our bodies, not just our minds, can do amazing things. We need to promote the very best of both worlds.

Your attitude frightens me, Miki. First we kick the athletes off campus. Then the dance students. Then the whole fine arts program. Then health sciences. Eventually, we'll get to the Jews. Heck, why not institute death camps for anybody who is not studying your major? Darn them anyway.

Harvey Briggs

[Mikimouse]

67. Back off and don't put words in my mouth...

"Your attitude frightens me, Miki. First we kick the athletes off campus. Then the dance students. Then the whole fine arts program. Then health sciences. Eventually, we'll get to the Jews. Heck, why not institute death camps for anybody who is not studying your major? Darn them anyway."

I said nothing of the sort. I, however, will not worship at the altar of the student athlete. Do not suppose for one single moment that I am not familiar with the perks my student athletes get or the schedules they keep. Most of the starters on at least three of the teams from my institution are former students of mine, and I treated them no differently than I treat any of my students. You are suggesting that there should be some equity for student athletes, in terms of what they bring to the institution? Correct me if I am wrong on that, but if that be the case, then perhaps we should consider equity for the professional educator as well. Since you are familiar with the academic system, perhaps you could enlighten me as to why people who dedicate 25 or so years to the pursuit of knowledge are presented with so few perks? Many institutions of higher learning survive quite adequately without athletic programs, but I suspect that you would be hard pressed to find one that could survive for long without faculty.

[HarveyBriggs]

76. Ahh the college prof with nose out of joint

No, I won't back off.

And I'll enjoy the fact I'm not in one of your classes where you would give me an arbitrary "C" just so you could have your little power trip for the day. Yes, youe friends sure taught me a lesson I never forgot -- particularly when I go to the voting booth and see the column "Perks for the college prof who gave you a hook, just because you weren't of the same stripe , Yes or No."

Hmmm. Could the well-know tendancy for college professors to slide towards petulant behavior reason you're not enjoying perks?

Look, I know the Dean of the Medical School makes more than the Dean of the Business School, who makes more than the Dean of the Liberal Arts School who ...

My goodness, I was married to academia for almost two decades. She knew what she was getting into, and so did I. You should have, too. And when we divoced and my paycheck disappeared, she took her Ph.D. and her published papers to the nearest pharmacuetical company where she is cloning cash, mid-six figures. Now the school is willing to give her the Dean of the Bio department's parking space, and would build her an on-campus private gym and swimming pool is she asked.

You get the perks people think you're worth. Stop by the econ department sometime and they'll tell you all about it.

Nobody forced you and that chip you carry on your shoulder to pursue an academic career with fewer perks than the football team's water boy. You made that choice, because in some way that rewards you. Enjoy it (Of course, you may have chosen what you do, because you enjoy complaining).

I understand that many institutions of higher learning do not have athletic programs. I also know that many leaders -- political ones among them -- who built their leadership skills and sharpened their minds on competitve athletic fields; without competitive athletics they and this world would be a poorer place.

Now, here's a perk college profs get that few others in society receive: free tuition for your children. I think that's pretty cool.

Harvey Briggs

[Mikimouse]

78. Didn't go to classes, eh?

Next time, I suggest that you read the entire post and respond in kind, rather than attacking me (or others) based on your own frustrations. I chose to do what I do and do not regret one moment of it. It does not take money or perks to make my career worthwhile. I also take exception to your accusations of petulance, or constant complaining, as I have done neither, and I suspect that you know that. I shan't pander to you, nor to anyone else, and in addition I will not continue an exchange with anyone who obviously cannot imagine two sides to a point. read my otehr posts and you will see that I do, indeed, have that talent. I bid you adieu.

[HEyHEY]

70. I wouldn't go that far

I don't think objecting to athletes being given special treatment qualifies him as Hitler

[Book Lover]

17. But only to the Athletic dept

Neither English nor Art nor Counseling nor Math nor Astronomy nor Statistics nor History nor Political Science nor Music nor Physics nor Sociology nor ... well, you get my point. That money doesn't get spread around.

[Mr. Blonde]

21. A successful ath. dept.

opens the purse strings of alumni. Some of that money will make its way to the general fund.

[HEyHEY]

23. Plus - if they're not taking money away from other programs - who cares

[Book Lover]

32. Perhaps eventually

but a vauge promise for funds in the next few years, subject to approvals, to me is not a strong arguement for the English department to support the football team.

I realized that I never answered directly the original post. If you are talking straight salaries, no. If you are talking end-of-season bonuses, maybe. If you are talking per-game pay, maybe.

[Mr. Blonde]

35. I don't know

exactly what is proposed, I do know it is a subject that shows up in the news once in a while. I believe at one university the football team gives 2 mil a year to the library.

[playahata1]

57. It is Penn State that does that.

Joe Paterno (who I interviewed during one off-season in the early 90s) is one of the straightest shooters there is in big-time college sports, and he has the high graduation rates -- and the wins (not many the last few years, though) -- to prove it.

[HEyHEY]

22. Are you sure it doesn't differ from school to school

Plus if the English department was making shitloads of money and giving it to the athletics department - everyone would be whining about that.

But situations reveresed - it's a different story.

[Book Lover]

44. I'd like to study in that English Department!

:D You work in the publishing industry - you know there's no real money to be made here :-)

And you are completely correct - this situation must differ from school to school. I went to Queens College, CUNY, where there were no competitive athletics to speak of, and so I can only go by hearsay, what my niece at Syracuse U. tells me, and what I see on my (very) rare on-campus trips (I work for a college textbook publisher).

[HEyHEY]

60. Unless you right Harry Potter books

Then you can make some dough :-)

[Book Lover]

68. Hey, I can copyedit

Then I can right the Potter books all I please! :-)

[mede8er]

26. Hell yeah...........

When you see a college football stadium filled to the brim with 80,000 people who paid to get in...makes me think it's not on the taxpayer's backs.

You got that right..........

[cmf]

30. Not at my alma mater

In fact, the varsity athletics program is a $10 million drain on the general fund. Not worth it, IMO.

[markdd]

49. Not Really

most of that money goes into upkeep for the stadium, various slush funds for paying non coaching personnel, team travel, separate athletic dorms, athlete only cafeterias, academic tutors, people to write papers and take tests for athletes.

Not to mention the amount of time it sucks up from university administrators who spend most of their time trying to keep the stadium full to pay off the notes.

Let's face it, you're in Oklahoma. How many phone calls per day do you think that OU President David Boren gets from alums complaining about that nitwit (name your sport) coach did or didn't do compared to the number of alums calling to complain about the need for more Nobel Laureate quality professors?

I saw enough of this first hand at OU in the mid '70's to sour me on "intercollegiate athletics" for life.

[Mr. Blonde]

65. There are no

more athlete only dorms. Most athletes I know have to take their tests, but you are right a tutor may be doing most of the writing of a paper.

Does Bob Stoops make mistakes?

[HEyHEY]

69. We're talking millions a year

I doubt a substancial amount gets used up sweeping under the seats. But I'd have to check out real figures.

[Mr. Blonde]

7. I take it

you are one of those in favor of eliminating Ath. Dept., what about all of the sports that do not have pro teams for their athletes to go to? And I can assure you cars and get out of jail free cards are not guaranteed parts of the gig. Clothes are but that is through Pell Grants which are available to any student.

[FleshCartoon]

10. Pell grant supplies clothes?

Mine didn't even cover books for school. But I was an English/History major. Perhaps that's why.

[playahata1]

29. Athletic scholarships do not cover incidentals such as clothing,

transportation (to and from home as well as within the city/town in which the athlete attends school), money to go out to the movies, go to the club or just to buy a hamburger or pizza. If the student-athlete qualifies financially, s/he can get a Pell Grant -- up to $2,000 a year -- on top of the scholarship.

[FleshCartoon]

34. Still sounds like a better deal than...

...regular students get to me.

I didn't have a scholarship and only had the Pell Grant--had to cough up for my own books and clothes.

[Mr. Blonde]

39. Athletes

in smaller sports are often in the same boat as you. Partial scholarships may only cover what a Pell Grant would. Oh not to mention athletes cannot accept other scholarships from outside the university.

[playahata1]

47. Until a few years ago, student-athletes could not work during

the season in which their particular sports were played in order to have spending money. They can do so now, but how the hell can they work 15-20 hours a week at some work-study job, go to class, and put in their mandatory hours toward their sports without compromising themselves in some way? And they can't work during the summer, either, because of the off-season training and conditioning programs their coaches put them on (Oklahoma's gotta keep up with Texas and Nebraska and A&M and OSU, ad nauseam) -- not to mention the fact that many athletes have to attend summer school in order to graduate on time and/or remain eligible to play.

Unless they can get money from their parents or guardians, there is no other LEGAL way besides a Pell Grant or a work-study job by which they can get that extra spending money.

[FleshCartoon]

71. I can see that....

...this is going nowhere, as far as us helping the other to see another point-of-view, neither with you and me, nor with Blonde and me.

I still maintain that they had more advantage than your average student--if they couldn't work, their extracurricular expenses were met for the sake of the team winning. There are many students in honors programs--History, English, Science, Math--who also have little time to work on anything beyond their academics--grants and scholarships don't cover their outside expenses either, yet they do not qualify for additional programs so that their needs can be met. So, if the athletic students are given work-study or pell grant qualifications simply because they're in a stringent program, then so should other specialty program students. You simply cannot tell me that athletic students in high school and college aren't given more consideration and leeway than are other students--as a former student in both, I know better.

And, I do realize that there are athletes at smaller schools who don't get the really luxurious perks, but even ones at community colleges receive more than do other students.

[playahata1]

25. Athletic scholarships at the public universities are PRIVATELY funded.

You cannot use public funds to subsidize athletic scholarships, to subsidize athletic programs, period. ALL college athletic programs -- public- and private-school alike -- are supposed to be self-financing. That is why you have boosters.

[Mikimouse]

8. Not in this lifetime, and not in the next three!

I agee with Bluestateguy. At my institution, they even have special 'by invitation only' classes for the scholarship athletes. The instructors are told all about how these students are high risk, so that they will tone down the rigor of the course. Bullshit!!!!!!!! Ours are quite nicely pampered. I have had occasion to have lunch in the athletes' dorm and was amazed at the wonderful fare there. I was being courted at the time to be one of their figureheads (the perks disappeared when I announced that I'd be teaching the course as I normally do). HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Being a college athlete is a choice, and there are plenty of financial options available (loans, Pell grants, etc.) for those who do not have the parental funding. Of course, the proviso with student loans is that one actually has to do the coursework and complete it successfully.

[Mr. Blonde]

14. What is your

institution? At my school, care is taken so that class and practice do not overlap, and if one teacher is understood to be more understanding to having to miss class and such then they will try to put an athlete in that class. Also no dorm can be more than 50% athletes per NCAA rules. At mine the football team was privy to much nicer meals than even other athletes which I thought was dumb since it isn't like they have to diet or anything.

[Mikimouse]

20. Southeast of your location (from your profile)...

Two years ago we barely managed to beat OU in the last few minutes, when they were ranked No.1

[Mr. Blonde]

24. Congratulations on that

I realize I should have some state pride against outside competition, but their fans are so high and mighty it is very hard.

[ZenLefty]

11. Sure, if they get a job.

:think:

[indypaul]

13. College athletics

is the current "farm club" system of major league
sports today. Believe they should make contributions
to schools to offset some of the fees now being
assessed students who may or may not participate
or even attend events. A situation like that has
potential of reducing signing bonuses and perhaps
some of the agents fees but as it now exists
it seems the major league clubs of NBA, NFL and Major
League Baseball have an enormous benefit from college
sports at little or no cost.

[HEyHEY]

15. Colleges make shitloads of money off these kids

Maybe they should get a little something - for instance. And ex boyfriend of my sister had a foot ball scholarship - in his third year he had to quit because of several concussions. This guy beat his head to a pulp for the university - then, they wouldn't even let him finish his last year of school for free.

[Nikia]

36. No, lesser sports are suffering enough

When I say lesser sports, I mean non or low revenue sports golf, wrestling, track, swimming, ect. Those athletes put in as much time and effort into their sport as football and basketball players. Most of those teams aren't fully funded scholarshipwise and partial scholarships may be more common than full scholarships. I don't know if division I scholarship NCAA students are allowed to do work study or not. We weren't division I and many student athletes got easy sports related work study jobs like checking student ids at the fitness center.

[Mr. Blonde]

38. They are

just recently rules were changed on athletes being allowed to have jobs. But after classes, practice, studying, sleeping, and eating does someone really have time for even an easy job? And isn't it those athletes in smaller sports who could benefit most from a payment?

[AngryAmish]

40. Only in revenue sports

[Mr. Blonde]

42. Why are only those

athletes permitted? Basketball and Football players may one day earn money from their sport unlike those in non revenue sports?

[HEyHEY]

43. Hey they happen to be in a sport that makes money

We all have choices.

[Mr. Blonde]

48. A guy

who is 5'2'' a 135 lbs doesn't have much of a choice. How many offers is he going to get for those sports? Does that change how much time, or how hard they work in their sport. Not to mention girls who are not in revenue sports at all.

[HEyHEY]

51. Some girls sports make money

As for the rest...sounds bad but - tough. Sorry you were born so short. I was born with crappy eyesight - way it goes.

[Mr. Blonde]

58. Well

some girls sports at some universitys. The majority of women's athletics programs do not make money. Whole women's ath. depts. are run at a deficit. Some day that may change but it is reality now.

[AngryAmish]

46. Because all other sports cost the average university money

While football and mens basketball make money. Howver, unless the individual sport makes money, no money for the athletes. So, U of T womens hoops may get money, but Depaul's Mens Gymnastics get nothing (and should have to pay their one way. Why should I have to pay for someone else's jollies?)

[Mr. Blonde]

50. So

if you were interested in a sport things would be different? Because you are paying for a football player or basketball players jollies when you go see them.

[AngryAmish]

52. Yes

That is my position. But I am getting my jollies on my dime.

[Mr. Blonde]

55. And

you have no interest in any sport that isn't a revenue one?

[AngryAmish]

62. No

I have interests in plenty of non-revenue sports. Barrel-jumping for example. However, I should not have to fund barrel-jumpers at my college. If they could get people to pay to watch, then they should charge. I bet lots of people would love to see barrel-jumping.

[HEyHEY]

64. Umm history says no

A lot of people aren't interested in barrel jumping ;-)

except me of course

[AngryAmish]

66. That is why I hate the Olympics - No barrel jumping.

[SmileyBoy]

53. I'm a student on NDSU's football team, and I get paid.

Of course, I'm on the staff, not a player. I get work study pay.

[Deja Q]

59. What are both sides of this? As far as I've observed:

College kids go to college to learn and get a job at McCoronary's after they get out because today's employers only want people with lots of experience...

College sports only helps very few of them get into the major leagues, the only league worth playing for in terms of what our country i$ about.

Now I can't go to a college just to play on their team, not without takin' some courses at their high prices.

No. They should not get paid. Not one smurfing penny.

[HarveyBriggs]

73. They should get a percentage of the gate.

Not only that, they should be taxed, too.

In fact, I think athletes in major money making sports programs ought to be taxed in a manner similar to waiters and waitresses -- we should assume there is unreported income and tax them for it any way. The system would change pretty quickly after that.

Let's remember most college athletes are not the superstars we think of. And their programs don't make money.

Unfortunately, the NCAA rule book has not been written for these athletes. It's been written by the coaches and the college administrators who make a lot of money off of big-ticket sports.

The athletes in those sports ought to be paid for their fundraising activities.

Most of the thinking that went into the rules governing college sports was created long ago by wealthy elitists, who created amature status in order to segregate themselves from the dregs of society who would be willing to compete for money.

Today, many major universities have gone way beyond that level, with schools actively recruiting the very best athletes. And those atheletes are performing and competing at such levels that they are virtually full-time jobs. In those cases we need to allow them to make money from such an expensive commitment in time and sweat. Any thing else is a form of slavery.

As a former student athlete, I won both academic and athletic scholarships, it it was the atheltic scholarships that were far more restrictive regarding how I could earn money to pay the bills. The rules are so arcane and sports scholarships are so punitive, they virtually teach student athletes to cheat.

Right now, we have a system of rules written to benefit a very few schools, and a very few coaches. Paying athletes in money-making programs would be the first step towards improving the system.

NCAA scholarship system is nothing more than a big price-fixing scheme to control the costs of labor.

Harvey Briggs

[jakefrep]

74. I think...

It's kind of silly to not treat athletic and academic scholarship students the same.

Why is it that a student who earned a full ride for chemistry, can go out and get a job if he/she so chooses, and a student on athletic scholarship cannot?

Why doesn't anybody send a bill to the NFL or NBA for the costs of maintaining their farm system?

The NCAA only cares about preserving the phony veneer of 19th-century amateurism, which supposedly enhances the image of their product. They don't give a rat's ass about the student half of the student-athlete equation.

[Lestat]

77. No.

They go to college to get an education, not to play sports. If they get paid for going to college, then every person who attends should get paid too.

[Mr. Blonde]

79. The point of

the argument is that if they were not athletes they could get jobs while in school. Since they are athletes they cannot get jobs, and maybe without any income at all for the 4-5 years they are there. Is that fair? And who knows if paid maybe some of these superstars would hang around until graduation before jumping to the pros. So they will have something worthwhile to give back to society outside of their skills with a ball.

[Nikia]

80. Well, they can get jobs now

If they have full scholarships and aren't spoiled already, $30-$50/week should cover everything they need. If they are used to being spoiled, their parents probably can afford to send them more since they aren't paying tuition. They already get to stay in nice hotels and eat at restaurants while traveling. They can deal living without luxury for another few years.

[Mr. Blonde]

81. what about a car

and not every athlete is on a full ride, I would venture to say the majority of athletes are not on full rides.

[Nikia]

82. I didn't have a car in college

Why would you need something like that if you are really busy with stuff on campus and trying to save money? Many students make sacrafices to go to college. Some do have parents that pay for most stuff. Some get scholarships for a variety of things including need that make tuition manageable with a reasonable amount of work. Some have to work an unreasonable amount and don't get to enjoy anything else having to do with college and are at a severe academic disadvantage because of their lack of time. Many athletes are in the second category. If it was a big hardship for a partial scholarship athlete to come up with the remainder of tuition or room and board, they make other choices such as walking on at a less expensive school or going to one that is less demanding of one's time.
The best athletes, especially for revenue sports, are given full scholarships. It would be better to give partial scholarship athletes more of a scholarship or full one instead of paying all athletes a small salary anyway, don't you think. You would have to pay all the athletes to be fair, of course, at least in a title 9 fair way.

[Mr. Blonde]

83. So the best athletes

in 2 sports? That is all that are revenue at the majority of schools. It would be nice for all athletes to have full scholarships, but the National Communistic Athletic Association doesn't think that is the way to go.

And at some schools it is damn hard to not have a vehicle. Stillwater is a spread out town. To do anything you have to get someone to take you. How many of your friends are willing to pick you up and take you to get groceries?

[Liberal Veteran]

84. I think colleges should be in the business of education....PERIOD

Athletics for the purpose of good health is fine with me, but I think too much emphasis is placed on sports in both high school and college.

[Mr. Blonde]

86. Not very

competitive? I understand, but the majority of the population is willing to compete over who can have the largest bowel movement.

[Liberal Veteran]

87. I'd be more impressed to see colleges compete to see who produces...

...the most Nobel prize winners or the most gifted doctors.

[Mr. Blonde]

88. helping society

isn't the national past time though.

[Liberal Veteran]

89. Which is a poor reflection on us.

We really do seem to place more emphasis on who can kick a ball the farthest than who can build a cheap renewable source of energy or create a new wonder drug or imaging system to detect disease.

It's kind of a shame.

Not to say I don't think competitive sports have a place, but I don't think that place should be equivalent to intellectual pursuits.

[Mr. Blonde]

90. Don't worry about that

I would say that it is well ahead of intellectual pursuits in most people's books.

Citius, Altius, Fortius is one of the highest callings I can think of though. Going faster, higher, and longer (? forgot the exact meanings of those) can teach the intellectuals a lot about the human body.

[Fleshdancer]

91. no...

if college athletes need money, they should be forced to take a crappy low level job like all the other college students. :)

[Mr. Blonde]

92. The point is

they don't have time for said job because of the requirements of their sport.

[Liberal Veteran]

93. The same can be said about any difficult scholarship...

If a chem major has to bust his ass to study and write term papers instead of working, why should he get extra money for it?

Basically, you are saying that these wonderful athletes who ultimately contribute very little to the academic community should get EVEN MORE special treatment.

They are getting a free education which is something MOST of us would jump at instead of spending 20 years paying off student loans or taking 6 years to get a degree that should have taken 4 because we had to work to pay for room and board during school.

Fuck that.

[Mr. Blonde]

94. Again

I would say most are not on full scholarships, and so they don't have a free education. What if the athlete is a chem. major? It does happen. Then what?

[Liberal Veteran]

96. Then maybe he can do what us less athletically gifted people do?

Screw the scholarship and get a job and work his way through school like most of us have to.

You are advocating special treatment for these people that they don't really deserve.

In fact, they ARE being paid in ways most students aren't.

[Mr. Blonde]

97. In my first

post I did say I still lean towards not paying because of amateurism. I can just see the point of paying. I understand the beef. It is special treatment to be paid for a job? Would you not be expected to see some return from people making money from your work? They spend the time on their sport equal to a full time job, why not be paid like they have one, others can make money of them. Isn't that slavery?

[Liberal Veteran]

98. They ARE being paid.

That was the deal they agreed to when they accepted the scholarship.

If the terms of the scholarship don't fit their needs or they can't abide by those terms, they CAN opt to forego the scholarship and enjoy the drudgery of working a dead-end job for 4 years to make a little extra money.

[Mr. Blonde]

99. tuition

can be covered by a variety of scholarships that anyone can get as well. That is all that some get. Except the other person can get a job. Why should someone be told to give up something they love, when they can make money from it as well, just like others are making from their gifts.

[Liberal Veteran]

100. You aren't making a very convincing argument.

You are basically saying that somehow because the person has a natural talent and said talent that is admittedly helping them pay for the expense of education in ways that the average student doesn't get, that somehow, because of the fact that the terms of that agreement requires participation in an extra-curricular activity, they should get PAID for it.

That's like saying I should get PAID for my internship next fall. It might be nice, but I KNEW I was going to have contribute a significant portion of my time unpaid to get licensed.

Thems the breaks.

Life is matter of making choices and compromises. I don't think anyone (except perhaps yourself) that students on an athletic scholarship have it so rough they deserve something that sounds ludicrous.

It's like saying "HEY! I'll pay you to go to school!" It's a great deal if you can get it, but it definitely should not be mandatory.

[Mr. Blonde]

101. Again

I am mainly playing devils advocate about this. I don't feel they should be paid because it defeats the purpose of amateurism. Just like our "Dream Team" basketball teams should not have been in the Olympics.

The point is they have a job. What some are paid is wholly inadequate. And until recently it was against the law for them to have jobs. Yet, their jobs don't pay for the necessitys of life.

You say they should give it up if they don't like it, but for some it is the only way they got to college, and the only reason they get to stay in college.

Believe me I am not the only one who feels this way, if I were I would never have heard about this, but it is something that makes the news every once in a while.

[TexasMexican]

102. Yes

and at the least they should be allowed to take gifts from people.

[realisticphish]

103. NO NO NO NO

I sit in an honors dorm at Ohio State, one of the largest campuses in the US, and our elevator only works once in a while, the bathrooms haven't been remodeled since 1955, and we are heated by radiators (thats right, boiling water and all). There is PLENTY of other stuff that my tuition money should be spent on that benefits me, and not the ability of some guy to make a ball go through a hoop or into the endzone.

PS, the Ohio State Marching Band, which works at least as hard as the football team, actually PAYS to do so


edit:sorry TM, didnt mean to reply to your post in particular

[Leprechan29]

105. No

Thats what the pro leagues are for - plus, if they are good enough, they will likely have a scholarship to pay for their education, and in 4 years (or less) they have a chance to go pro

[jmowreader]

106. How extreme can the NCAA be?

This happened three years ago, so I have no link, sorry.

East Carolina University has a film department, and three years ago one of its students was a scholarship athlete in some non-revenue sport--fencing, I think.

According to NCAA rules, any athlete who appears in a movie before his or her eligibility runs out forfeits said eligibility. This prohibition applies in all circumstances, whether or not the athlete receives compensation for appearing in said film.

Also according to NCAA rules, any athlete who is not making "satisfactory progress" toward his or her degree loses eligibility.

You know the rest: to graduate from film school at ECU, you must appear in a movie--and they really like it if you do it either in your junior year or between your junior and senior years. Wilmington has a good-sized movie industry, so this isn't all that hard to accomplish.

They had to appeal all the way up to the NCAA Board of Governors; last I heard of the case they did get him permission to appear in a movie, but he couldn't receive pay for it.

I can see not letting athletes run around starring in Major Motion Pictures and receiving Major Paychecks for doing it...but they were prepared to refuse to let this guy graduate from college to maintain the illusion of "purity of amateur athletics" or some damn thing. That's crazy.