Please post your views and experiences regarding the afterlife

[BigBigBear]

I'm having a very difficult time dealing with the loss of my wife, and I'm struggling to come to terms with mortality, the afterlife and loss.

This is a selfsih post - I'm trying to find something that helps me cope; nothing's really helping so far.

Has your belief in the afterlife (or non-belief) been shaped by a loss in your life, or an experience?

[madmax]

1. I'm very sorry for your loss, BigBigBear

I haven't really figured out what I believe about afterlife. I'm still trying to sort it out.

You've probably heard this from people around you but, it will take time to get over your sense of loss. That and talking about it with someone whom you feel comfortable. :hug:

[Bertha Venation]

2. my mom died when i was eleven

I feel she sees me, and is proud that I broke all the destructive behaviors that were her legacy.

I feel I'll see her again one day, and she'll be happy and whole -- as I believe she is now.

:hug: I wish I could help, Bear. I know it hurts, and I am so sorry.

[Lin]

3. Would you consider looking at grief newsgroups? I had

a friend who found the ppl there who were in the same pain as he, to be very comforting. Awful sorry for your loss. I wish you strength.

[johnnie]

4. I'm very sorry for your loss

There is a very good book called "We Don't Die" by George Anderson.
I know there are a lot of people who don't believe in an afterlife, but I have seen first hand too much proof there is.
I would recommend picking up that book and read it with an open mind. I have given away at least 6 copies of that book and every person I have given it to told me it helped them a lot.
I hope you find peace of mind soon. Take care.

[BigBigBear]

8. Johnnie

I'll look for this book tonight.

And some reading glasses, since it has become apparent in the last few weeks I now need them.

[soleft]

18. Another book I'd recommend

If you find that reading things is helpful, tho it might be too close to home to read right now, it's called Grace and Grit, and it's written by and about Ken Wilbur, the new age philospher and his wife and how they dealt with her illness and death. A friend of mine who lost her mother said it helped her, and I do believe it offers a lot of spiritual insight and comfort.

[patrice]

5. I lost my husband of 29 years 7 years ago, and I will never

"be over it."

I met him when I was 16.

I will never "Give it to the Lord."

It will never be okay.

I don't care whether there is an "afterlife" or not; I want him here and now in the worst way, and that is never going to change.

If I focus on the pain, it is just as bad as it ever was. In a way, I don't want to ever "blurr" the pain. I want that pain to be what it is.

I have only just learned to "sit with it." What happened to him is what it is; I am what I am. I visualize this situation as a sort of presence in my life that I manage, with my own strength, to keep from being sucked into a black-hole, but I can't change it in any way, not even the smallest thing about it can be made any "better" or "easier".

Over this last year, I have stumbled across the Bhagavad Gita, which I regard as being a little more complete on the issue of what an afterlife, IF there is one, would be than the Bible is. I also chant and breathe "Hare Krsna, Hare Krsna, Krsna, Krsna, Hare, Hare, Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Rama, Rama, Hare, Hare." I have found that this meditation focuses my memories/experiences of all of the good that came into my life as a result of knowing Frank.

God be with you.

[BigBigBear]

7. I feel like I understand, Patrice

It will never be okay. I'm slowly becoming accustomed to this "thing" in my life now, this crushing sorrow that waxes and wanes. I know it is here to stay - everything I do, everything I look at or feel, is shared by this other presence.

It's worse than being alone. It's like a needy little child that calls for attention whenever it likes, distracts me, taunts me, hurts me, and won't leave. It's terrible.

People have suggested I look into grief counseling. I'm skeptical. It's like brushing this mean little child's hair, trying to make it behave, trying to train it to interact with me on MY terms, not its own.

I know there's only one way to truly escape this evil little companion. I'm clutching the edges of that black hole you described, trying not to fall in.

I have little interest in spiritual journeys, self-discovery, reaching out. I was a happy man in love, and I thought that was all I needed.

[patrice]

9. That black-hole looks damned attractive sometimes.

Be careful. Cultivate your own unique sources of strength. Learn to "tread water" forever.

For me the tension between "something" and "nothing" is valuable, but I've had to learn not to overestimate my own strength. When that "nothing" pulls on you, you can really feel it very concretely, and it isn't scary.

I don't know if there is a "god" or not. I don't know if there is an "afterlife" or not. I try to stay in true balance between the two possibilities; that seems to open ordinary things up to me, creates potentialities in concrete everyday experience I might not have noticed otherwise, if I were more sure one way or another.

[belladonna]

33. I felt like I needed to respond to this, BBB

Because of what you said about the grief counseling. Don't worry about that NOW, you're not ready for it and it's not going to help now. Please look into it later because it can be quite helpful. When you made that comparison to an unruly child, and trying to tame it, I knew exactly what you meant, and you're just not ready for that yet. Let yourself grieve, and be pissed off at the world, and God, if you believe in him.

My friends and some of my family tried to push me into it and it only made me retreat further into myself instead. I felt as though they didn't want to deal with my grief, so I learned to put on a happy face, pushed the sadness and pain I felt way down deep, and tried to move on. The grief counseling can wait, but please don't go the route I did and go into denial.

There are no easy answers here, BBB. It's a long hard road and that old cliche of one day at a time truly does apply here. I've said it before, and I mean it... if you ever need anything or just someone to talk to, PM me anytime, okay? :hug:

[fudge stripe cookays]

6. There's nothing wrong with feeling a little selfish right now.

You're going through a rough time. And again, I'm sorry about your wife.

Myself, I experienced the loss of my dad when I was 13, and a beloved uncle (his brother) when I was around 9. Both of whom were my favorite people in the whole world.

I can still remember when my mom got the phone call about my Uncle Bum (nickname, his real name was Newell). I was in the bathtub, and I just sat there and cried and cried.

And I still cry about my dad once in awhile. I'm almost 38, and there was so much he missed in my life. Sometimes I wonder what he'd think about what's going on in the world right now, and if he'd be proud of me for what I'm doing. And I'm convinced he would be.

I will fight death up to a point, but I am no longer AFRAID of it. I find so much comfort in knowing that my time, whenever it comes, will be easier because of this. Whether it's sudden and unexpected, from a long drawn out illness, or something really violent...I will see my dad, my uncle, my grandparents, and so many people I love on the other side.

If it were to take me away from reprehensor, I would feel horribly sad thinking of him still here, but I would catch up with everyone on the other side until he could join me.

You have the knowledge that you will be able to join your wife. When I get scared about the way the world is going right now, and that many of us may perish from the stupidity of our president, or terrorists, or God knows what, I wrap myself in that peaceful feeling my dad and uncle have given to me like a fluffy blanket and just tell myself that whatever will happen will happen. I acccept the inevitable, whatever it is, and it makes me a little stronger.

Does that help any? Sorry if I was just babbling. Do whatever you need to pamper yourself right now. Accept kindness from others without questioning, and try to still do things you enjoy. And if the depression gets too much, please check into grief counseling. PM if you need anything.

Good luck, dear.
FSC

[MuseRider]

10. Hi Bear.

I told you about my brother and the warm presence I felt after his death. Since we were the last remaining two of our family he knew he would be leaving me entirely alone so I do believe he stayed with me until I was over that crushing feeling and down to just pure grief. It was your wife and she was the most important person in your life so that crushing feeling may be around for much longer than it was for me and may never go away. Someday perhaps you will find a place to put it so you don't feel it so constantly but we are each so different that my solutions may not be helpful.

As everyone in my family has suffered and died I have noticed that each one had a key figure from their past who they seemed to feel was present. My mother lingered the longest and suffered the most and so I spent many long hours with her while she slowly died. She would see my father, she would talk to him and he was the only thing that could make her smile. He had been dead for about 25 years by then.

When I was nursing I was present for many deaths in the ER and the ICU. These are experiences that are present in most people at this time. If they are able to communicate they will almost always relate some kind of experience like this. Someone suggested a book in a post above and I think I know that book. Get it, it is a good one.

I saw many people open eyes that had been closed for a long time. They would look at a specific place and smile as they took their last breath. I don't know, just having held their hands and been the fortunate one to share their last moments (it was always an honor) has made me believe that there is something after this life. It seems naive to me not being a really strong religious person but I do believe it strongly. What is over the other side is not certain or clear but I do think there is something.

I am still sending peaceful thoughts to you. Keep talking to us. I wish I could take some of your pain and carry it a while.

[BigBigBear]

11. It would probably be her grandfather, MuseRider

She really got her love of the woods and outdoors from him, I think. He used to take her out to pick wild mushrooms when she was a kid in Czechslovakia - even many years later, she'd get a little misty talking about him.

I've been thinking that he'd be the one to greet her.

Unfortunately, she was in a coma the last two days of her life - she did not wake up, sit up, or speak at all. AT least not in my opresence, and I was in her room almost all the time.

I'll look for the book Johnnie mentioned - but I'm also wary of emotional snake-oil. Her passing is real, and I don't want to cloud that reality with a lot of mass-market "words of comfort". As lost and broken as I feel right now, I'm not eager to immerse myself in berievement junk food.

I had my first dream about her two nights ago - very brief, she walked into the room wearing a white rain-jacket, seemingly a little mad at herself that she had left some things undone. It was very brief, but quite vivid.

Probably just the random neuro-firings of a stressed brain.

[johnnie]

13. Bear

I understand about not wanting to fall for all the mass market stuff out there. The thing I like about George Anderson is his approach to the whole afterlife thing. He is a very humble and shy person. He still is trying to find out about the gift he has, and he sometimes questions it himself. The book I mentioned is not a religious or mystical type book. In my opinion it is a very comforting book.
As for the dream...I will have to say that that was a "visit" from her. During a visit you can tell the difference because of how vivid they are as opposed to a standard dream. I'm not an expert, but I have had my own experiences. Take care.

[MuseRider]

14. Perhaps it was

but perhaps it was not. That is what makes this so damned hard. WE never know. I finally just simply decided that there were too many coincidences to try to explain. I began to accept all these things for what they are, unknown. I chose to believe they are communication and sign because it truly made me feel better. As I said before, we all have to do it our own way. I respect your wariness at this time but be certain you do not miss the things that will help you. No matter if they seem stupid or strange, you do not even need to share them but you are the one who is left to live on and you need to find a way to comfortably do it. I think it is too early maybe to even think too much about it. Bounce it off of us when you feel like it and take whatever helps.

[Insider]

12. Ego & Spirit from Wayne Dyer

This is a story at the beginning of a book by Wayne Dyer that I am reading: “Your Sacred Self: Making the Decision to Be Free”. He says the book is a literal interpretation of this metaphor, which he has
adapted from a story told by Henri J.M. Nouwen.

Dear Reader
Imagine this scene if you will. Two babies are in utero confined to the wall of their mother’s womb, and they are having a conversation. For the sake of clarity, we’ll call these twins Ego and Spirit. Spirit says to Ego, “I know you are going to find this difficult to accept, but I truly believe there is life after birth.”
Ego responds, “Don’t be ridiculous. Look around you. This is all there is. Why must you always be thinking about something beyond this reality? Accept your lot in life. Make yourself comfortable and
forget about all of this life-after-birth- nonsense.”
Spirit quiets down for a while, but her inner voice won’t allow her to remain silent any longer. “Ego, now don’t get mad, but I have something else to say. I also believe that there is a Mother.”
“A Mother!” Ego guffaws. “How can you be so absurd? You’ve never seen a Mother. Why can’t you accept that this is all there is? The idea of a Mother is crazy. You are here alone with me. This is your reality. Now grab a hold of that cord. Go into your corner and stop being so silly. Trust me, there is no Mother.”
Spirit reluctantly stops her conversation with Ego, but her restlessness soon gets the better of her. “Ego,” she implores, “please listen without rejecting my idea. Somehow I think that those constant pressures we both feel, those movements that make us so uncomfortable sometimes, that continual repositioning and all
of that closing in that seems to be taking place as we keep growing, is getting us ready for a place of glowing light, and we will experience it very soon.”

(PMed the rest to you, Bear...copyright and all)

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

15. I believe that when we die...we exist in the space of the thoughts

we created while on earth...

My father passed away 7 years ago...I believe this to be true from my experiences since he's gone

[belladonna]

16. Hi BBB

I wish there were something really deep and profound I could tell you that would make this easier for you. I've been where you are and I remember the despair and pain you must be feeling all too well. I can tell you that it does get easier over time, but getting over it is something you never do.

The afterlife? I've had a few experiences in that regard, but I'm not sure if it was wishful thinking or the real thing. I have dreams that are so vivid that they stay with me for days and I honestly feel as if he was back with me, if only for a few hours. It's something that I never talk about on DU, and probably never will for that matter.

You are ALWAYS welcome to pm me however, even if it's not about this. If you just need to talk about this with someone who knows what you're going through or if you just want to talk about HER. That's important, you know.. I had a great friend who just LISTENED to me when I wanted to remember him, to just talk about what a wonderful person he was and the happy times we shared before his death. So pm me, anytime, for anything you need, okay? :hug:

[Nikia]

17. I just got back from my grandfather's funeral

We were all very sad. It was rather sudden and he died in emergency surgery after being in the hospital for a week. I am the oldest of his his grandchildren and spent a lot of time over there as a child. He and my other grandparents were good role models for me when my parents could not be. Anyway, my other grandmother (not the wife of the the man who died) said "You shouldn't be so sad. He is in heaven now. I know that. When I had my accident (serious car accident that almost killed her 10 years ago), I saw heaven and I know what it is like. There is nothing to worry about regarding death for the person who died."
I suppose that gives me hope. I am Christian but of all the spiritual experiences we can share and experience, what happens after death is not really something that we can know, experience, or share.

[Jade Fox]

19. Hey Bear,

Both my parents died the same year. During the months afterwards I
stumbled across books about a man named George Anderson who channels
the dead, supposedly. When reading about this guy I became convinced
that he is the real thing. He has channeled thousands of people, knowing
things about them he could not possibly know. He has been tested by
medical people who say he briefly takes on some of the physical qualities of
those he is channeling when he is connecting to them. (example: if someone
died of a gunshot wound, Anderson's body will temporarily show signs of
massive trauma in the area where the dead person was shot) He also seems
like a damn nice man. He is very humble, and specializes in working with
people who have lost a loved one under tramatic circumstances, to help
them deal with their grief.

Anderson makes no claims to know everything about the afterlife. There are a few
things he says he knows with certainty: People die when they are supposed
to. However untimely their deaths seem, they were ready to go. Grief is for
the living, the dead are doing fine. The one exception to this,
according to Anderson, are suicides, who seem to be in some turmoil. I found
this information comforting.

I've also had experiences where I am sure I was in contact myself with a
person not living. Maybe I'll go into that in another post, if you're interested.

I'm so sorry you are having to go through this. I'm sure its different losing a
spouse, but I've been where you are, and I know how hard it is. It does get
better. Take care, and get the support you need. :hug:

Edited to get the name right: Its George Anderson, mentioned in another post
I see.

[GoddessOfGuinness]

20. Dear BigBigBear...

~hugggggggs~ to you...

Can anyone who is so alive in your heart really be dead?
I don't believe so.

I'm sorry for your loss; and I hope in exploring your grief you find some new and unexpected gift to help comfort you.

[welshTerrier2]

21. best wishes, my DU friend

to answer your question directly, we are free to believe whatever comforts us ... but I see no science that convinces me of an afterlife ...

i followed the difficult last weeks you had with your wife and was, of course, very moved by your devotion to her ... you touched many of us with your caring words ...

by way of advice, i would only say that you should not seek too quickly to be repaired ... be where you are ... heal at your own pace ... someone once said "suffering is the origin of all consciousness" ... this might not make you feel any better but perhaps you will find this to be a period of growth and a time where your relationships become deeper and more meaningful with those in your life ...

if you're not in counseling, this would be an ideal time to start ... even if it's just for a few months to "help a little" ... i would start one-on-one with a therapist and then expand to a support group later if you want to ...

i'm so very sorry for your great loss, BigBigBear ... we're all really pulling for you ... please keep us posted on your progress ...

[flamingyouth]

22. I really want to believe in one

My late husband was a dyed-in-the-wool skeptic and always thought that we are just dead and that's it after death. I always found that terribly depressing. I don't envision pearly gates and angels with harps, but I like to think there's something better out there.

For me, heaven would be filled with my favorite foods, cats, perpetual 70-degree weather and all the books I could ever want.

How are you doing? You're a little ahead of me in this process. Does it get any easier any time soon? :cry:

[Lindsey]

23. Insider and BigBigBear

that was truly beautiful about what Wayne Dyer said (ego & spirit). I'm a big fan of his and I've never read that. Also, yes, the George Anderson book, We Don't Die, is excellent. I gave it to one of my best friends when her mom died. I've taken tremendous comfort from this book. I believe BigBigBear with every ounce of my being that the afterlife is a place of tremendous comfort (I do believe in the life review and then things settle). I've had several experiences contacting my dad and grandmother and I have no doubt that it's a matter of energy changing (that's what death is). Feel free to pm me and I'd be more than happy to give you any contacts (it may be too soon now but for later). peace and love to you.

[BigBigBear]

26. My wife was a late and reluctant convert to the afterlife, Lisa

She was a hard-bitten atheist when we got together, but she also had a couple of ghost experiences that seemed to soften her position on it over the years. She'd say, "I think there's something, but none of the floating on a cloud stuff."

It was an interesting transformation - I like to think that our relationship, which was very tight and deeply based in complete devoton to each other, helped her evolve from the darkness of a you're-dead-that's-it view. I don't know.

Does it get any easier? Not for me, not so far. I at least have the added distraction of having to find a new place to live in 45 days, involving contracts and negotiations and looking at houses, etc. I'm making decisions under duress, so I have a pretty healthy anxiety thing happening alongside the sadness and loneliness.

Throckmorton is three months ahead of both of us, I think he'd say it does. Well, I shouldn't speak for him.

[ALago1]

24. Double post

See below. Sorry :)

[ALago1]

25. Hey there BBB

I'm so sorry to hear about your loss and figured I'd throw in a quick suggestion for some reading.

I was intrigued by the George Anderson mentioned in previous posts so I looked him up myself and was very interested so I'd say go check that out.

Also, if you are in the mood for some fiction, I would recommend reading Dostoevsky's "The Brothers Karamazov". It's my favorite novel and very spiritual if you read it correctly. I've enjoyed reading passages from that book more than reading passages for the bible. It's pretty long though. Hope this has helped!

[BigBigBear]

27. Thanks for your candor and support everyone

I'll check out the Anderson book soon.

After a week or so of living in a nearby hotel, tonight's my second night in the house alone.

[liberalhistorian]

28. BBB-

I know you're not really religious, but C.S. Lewis (writer, Oxford professor, and "amateur" theologian) wrote a book after the death of his wife from cancer. It's called "A Grief Observed" (the movie Shadowlands, with Anthony Hopkins and Debra Winger, was about their relationship), and it's a diary of his thoughts and feelings the first year after her death and how he dealt with it and learned to cope. It's a very moving book; those I know who've read it and who've suffered the kind of loss you have said they found it very helpful.

Personally, I believe in an afterlife; I do not believe that this is the only life we have and I believe we meet those we knew in this life on the "other side", so to speak. I had very vivid dreams of my stepbrother after he was killed, and the same with my paternal grandmother and maternal grandfather after their deaths (I was very close to both of them).

But that's just my own belief, of course, others may feel differently.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

29. After my father died

something very strange happened.

I had brought him a lacquered wooden box from Japan for cufflinks and the like, and after he died, my mother gave it to me. It's a shallow rectangular box with a flat lid, and so I used it for jewelry and put it on top of my dresser.

One day, I came home from work to find the lid of the box upside down on my bedroom floor quite a distance away from th dresser where the actual box stood. There were no people or animals at home, and there had been no earthquakes, nothing to explain how the lid could end up three feet away from the dresser.

It felt like a greeting.

Of course, no one really knows what happens to the people who don't return from near-death experiences, but it stands to reason that all the complexity of who we are doesn't just disappear like a computer disk being erased.

[Lorien]

30. My cousin Dawn had an experience like that

Her father died about ten years ago, and her boyfriend took her up to a cabin in the woods after the funeral because she just felt that she needed to get away from everything to cope with her grief (she and her father were very close). My cousin, her father, and her boyfriend are/were very traditional Native Americans. One evening at the cabin, Dawn and her boyfriend went out for a long walk, coming back well after dark. They got ready for bed and pulled back the sheets to reveal hundreds of kernels of Indian corn, all laid out row upon row to form a traditional Native American pattern across the entire bed. No one could have done such a thing-even in the space of time they were gone. They had no idea where the corn came from, but they did accept it as a message from Dawn's father.

I hope you find peace soon, Bigbigbear. :hug:

[FizzFuzz]

31. oh dear, it must be very hard being in the house alone

I wish I had wise words; rightnow I don't, but I AM sitting here in Rochester NY sending my prayers your way.

I very much believe in an afterlife, a between life, karma and reincarnation.

Some books that I read which were very well researched and impressed me as being logical and non-airy-fairy were by Dr Micheal Newton. "Journey of Souls" and "Destiny of Souls" He is a psychologist who started out a skeptic but witnessed some interesting things happening with patients he was working with in therapeutic hypnosis. So he pursued that avenue. I find these books make so much sense, for me anyway.

That description of the pain as being like an uncontrolled child that interupts continually, tugging at you---yes good description.
When I lost someone important, years ago, the pain felt like waves crashing on me, but I lay on the floor and sobbed. The floor felt like the safe strong ocean bottom and I knew that I could let the waves of pain, though they were intense, crash through me--yet they couldnt sweep me away or crush me because I was laying on the firm sand.

Cindy

[nini]

32. Oh, I'm convinced there's something

when my dad was dying there were many incidents that were signs of those already dead in his presence. It was so amazing to see the transformation, the way he would look and reach out at something we couldn't see. He'd say weird things out of the blue like "I don't know when I'm coming". I asked him once who he was talking to and he said his grandmother and smiled when I asked if she was there. He talked of his brother who had died before him and said he had to go with him to see my aunt. Turns out my dad died the night after aunt.

As he was dying after having been in a coma for about 3 days while my sisters and I were holding his hands and talking to him, he sat straight up and looked out above my sister at the foot of his bed and said 'c'mon c'mon. Lets go"... he got a BIG smile on his face and laid back down. No one will ever convince me he didn't see the other side at that moment and is there now.

While we cannot touch and talk to those we have lost there are times you can 'feel' them. For the longest time I would feel my dad around while I was driving alone - it was weird.

Sylvia Browne has a couple books on this type thing.. I can't remember the titles but they're interesting and may help you.

Peace to you BigBigBear.. I wish there was a magic cure to heal grief. All I can offer is my posts and prayers at this point. :hug:

[Lestat]

34. This is the thing that scares me the most...

If there is an afterlife after we die. I really hope there is. But...I find a lack of evidence except personal experiences and testimonials. I just somehow hope that there is an afterlife and that we do live on after we die. :scared:

[Sticky]

35. My son died in my arms

He was only 7.

He was the love of my life and I was paralyzed by grief for a very long time.

There is no fast track to healing for those of us left behind. We must to go through each and every stage of grief (sometimes more than once) before healing begins.

Bear, it's hard to believe right now but you will eventually come to a place where you can accept what has happened and become a fuller, more enlightened person in the process.

I believe I will see William again and to improve my chances I live my life with as much integrity as I can muster. :-)

My heart is with you. :loveya: