What are liberal sexual morals?

[cally]

I think I'm going to regret this post but this argument annoys me. I despise that the right lays claim to morality when I think they have little. So my morals:

Noone should engage in any sexual activity with someone outside the relationship. Cheating is wrong. If all have knowledge and agree than it's fine.

Noone should engage in any sexual activity without full consent. Minors cannot give consent and anyone under duress or the influence of drugs or alcohol cannot give consent.

Other than these, I really don't care about anyone's sexual lives. If it is consensual, with adults, and with full knowledge of all then it's your own life. I just don't understand the sexual police telling others how to conduct their lives.

[comsymp]

1. You've just provided the definition of 'em

nt

[Jaged]

2. minors

Why can't minors give consent? I am one. I know what I want and what I don't want.

[cally]

6. How old are you?

nt

[livinginphotographs]

7. "Slippery-slope" argument

Unfortunately, we have to decide an arbitrary age when people can enter into contracts, vote, drink, etc.

18 is what was settled on (except for drinking). I'm sure there's fifteen-year-olds out there who are more well-equipped to give consent than some 20-year-olds, but in the eyes of the law, there needs to be consistency. Otherwise, can you argue that maybe an 11-year-old can give consent? What about a 12-year-old? What about a 13-year-old? And so on.....

[ant]

15. I hate to sound like an old fart...

...but I (thought I) knew what I wanted when I was your age, too. ;)

Totally condescending and not at all what you want to hear, but it's true. I think back on when I was 16 and...oy. Then again, I feel the same way when I think back on last year. So, I'm smarter now than I was when I was 16 and even 26, but I'm sure there are plenty of 30, 40, 50+ year olds rolling their eyes at me now. I can't wait to be 90 - then I'll REALLY know it all! I'm going to be so self-righteous and condescending on my death bed...

But back on topic: age of consent actually varies from state to state, and I believe some states have rules along the lines of the law only applying when there's a large age difference or something. I don't think sex laws like this are about kids not knowing what they want but kids not always being able to deal with older people manipulating them. Certainly there are kids who are smart enough to handle that, and perhaps you're one of them, but I do think such laws are generally necessary.

[HuskerDem]

33. Why not minor consent?

When I was 4, I knew what I wanted and what I did not want.


There are very good reasons for the laws. Fish inside of them and you won't have to worry about becoming sailos "bitch".

[livinginphotographs]

3. Sounds good to me.

I have a real conflict with pornography, though: I wouldn't want my daughter or significant other engaging in pornography, but I really don't feel like I should tell others they can't, and I can't say I don't enjoy looking at Playboy now and again.

I've come to terms with the fact that I'm extremely conservative in my personal life, but I really don't care what anyone else does.

[kevinam]

23. I am curious about something...

What does it mean that you consider yourself extremely conservative in your personal life?? I am curious also how that differs from someone that is extremely liberal in the personal life. Frankly, I think the Newt's of the world have programmed all of us to think that loving your spouse and children, and going to church every week or whatever makes one a conservative. I don't think that is the case. I think liberals are the same way, but not insisting on forcing their ideas of what is right or wrong on everyone else. Also, it doesn't sound like you really have a conflict with pornography, from your comments. You don't sound like you want it outlawed or anything. You just think if someone you loved did it, it would be a bad choice. That is more looking out for the well being of loved ones than anything else, in my opinion...Kevin.

[livinginphotographs]

27. My conflict is more with moral consistency.

I think that if I have a problem with those I care about participating in pornography, why should I enjoy pornography? After all, those girls I'm looking at are someone's sister or mother or wife or girlfriend, etc.

Like I said, I'm extremely liberal when it comes to other people's behavior. But when it comes to those that I actually care about, I'm strongly against them being involved in pornography. I think that's extremely hypocritical, but I can't help it.

This was actually a question I was planning to pose on here, after I got my post count up and people could trust me. ;)I mean, I have no problem with porn, but isn't it hypocritical of me to view porn while vehemently wanting those women I care about to not be a part of it? I was raised a Republican, so maybe that's the conservative guilt coming out....

[cally]

28. Post the question some time

I think we all have mixed up feelings about sex and it would be an interesting discussion.

[livinginphotographs]

32. Will do.

I think that our roots as a Puritan nation has kind of warped Americans' views on sex. I envy those Europeans who think of nudity as no big deal. It's hard, though, to un-condition yourself after an entire lifetime of conditioning to believe that nudity is something inherently shameful.

[HEyHEY]

30. Whao

I was just making chit chat...I hate porn..it makes sex kinda unapealling.

[SarahB]

31. It sort of stems from the Puritanical Madonna/Whore thing in our society.

"Nice" girls aren't sexual or should be seen as sexual. Or that feeling sexual about a woman degrades her somehow. I don't believe this, but plenty of men have these conflicting feelings at times.

I think a woman can be many things, but her sexuality should be celebrated. While I'm too private to want to be naked for the world, I hold no disrespect for any woman that does. It's about self-expression (sometimes money too sure, but you have to be at least enough of an exhibitionist to cross that line I suppose).

[livinginphotographs]

34. ...

I like your comparison to the Madonna - that's a very apt comparison.

My thing is that I believe that sex is something special and very personal that should only be shared with someone you care about. While it doesn't always happen that way (I've had one-night stands), once I commit to someone, I would want them to feel that their body, just like mine, is something special to be shared between us and not for the rest of the world to gawk at.

And I sound so much like a sanctimonious Republican, I just realized. So let me repeat, I don't care if you're homosexual or heterosexual, it's a matter of loyalty and commitment to other people.

[ProfessorGAC]

40. You're Not Describing Conservativism!

Your feelings about pornography and those close to you have nothing to do with a conservative or liberal perspective.

As another poster mentioned, the hard right has polluted your definition of conservativism. Caring about people, especially those within your direct sphere of influence is a liberal point of view. Liberals want people to have, and be able to exercise their freedoms, but more critically, they CARE! You aren't against your daughter, or sister, or best friend being involved in porn on moral grounds, but on caring grounds.

That's not conservativism. It's not conservative guilt. It's just a protective instinct that everyone has, no matter their political POV.

The Professor

[HEyHEY]

4. Well, the soundtrack goes "Bow chica bow bow"

;-)

[cally]

8. ???

I don't understand. :shrug:

[HEyHEY]

13. That's me making Porno music

Thougu for this liberal it sound more like a famous Simon and Garfunkel tune.

[Brahma Bull]

5. I agree with those....and also...

No sex with a person under 16 (that's the legal age here in MN).

[Zomby Woof]

9. it means

Yaks and jello, 24/7. :D

[2cents]

10. Always keep..

at least half your weight on your elbows. :)

[cally]

11. Ummm...women too??? nt

[2cents]

20. Same rule applies, but

instead of elbows - knees.

[Thinker829]

12. examples?

Bill Clinton "because I could." sorry a bad example and a bit gratuitous.

A liberal education used to include study of philosophy including "Natural Law." In a nutshell some things are true if we just look and think. If it hurts you or if it hurts others then the society can limit the freedom for you to act "it." Driving a motorcycle without a helmet is (in some places) OK but driving drunk is not. So the principles you note are true but not complete. We have to include the laws that prevent minors from posing for pornography, health testing before a marriage license, etc.

OK the Clinton comment was a rueful acknowledgment that perhaps we've lost the high ground on this subject. However it does illustrate one point: consent can be "coerced" by power. (I guess you say that with the word duress?) Bill did it. So we have to raise the bar. Personal freedom does not trump all arguments. The society can and should "legislate morality;" just maybe a bit better than we have.

[Old and In the Way]

17. Disagree about Clinton and Lewinsky "coerced" relationship.

There was a "quid pro-quo" involved. Bill got sex, Monica got access. He was guility of being stupid; but to the degree that every relationship has, to a greater or lesser extent, one person in a higher position of power....I see nothing "coercive" in that tryst.

[shimmergal]

36. True. Monica wasn't coerced;

it was her idea to begin with. Their affair defies (or disproves?) the conventional wisdom about power & sex. There he was, supposedly the most powerful man in the world, and in many ways she had the more power in the relationship.

[cally]

18. I agree

absolutely add some rules about pornography and health testing.

[ant]

19. coercing consent?

However it does illustrate one point: consent can be "coerced" by power. (I guess you say that with the word duress?) Bill did it.

Could you explain this please? I don't understand how Bill "coerced" Monica.

I understand that women will choose to sleep with powerful men simply because they are powerful, just as they'll sleep with rich men or good looking men or funny men or, gasp!, men they love - and, of course, men do all of this as well - but I don't know that I would use the word "coerced" there. It's the difference between being forced or tricked into it versus willingly choosing to do it for reasons others might not agree with.

[2cents]

21. He coerced her?

If you remember she flashed some thong - so who was zoomin' who?

[coloradodem2005]

14. That is where I am at.

Those are my morals. In addition, I would say, don't put your significant other under duress to do something he/she does not want to do. Such as taking them to sex clubs when they do not want to go. If they want to, fine, otherwise no.

[MikeG]

16. Republicans are sexually repressed.

A couple of good rolls in the hay and they'd be voting for Kerry.

[mike_c]

22. interestingly, my PERSONAL sexual mores are precisely...

...in line with your description-- I've always been faithfully monogamous, and happily so. At fifty I can count the number of adult relationships I've had on one hand because all of them have lasted a decade or more.

However, my liberalism comes into play when I consider other people's mores that fall ourside of my own. It's their business. That's liberalism, IMO. I can be as comfortable a home body as I want to be, but I don't condemn anyone else for philandering-- although I do hope that they will face the consequences like adults if necessary.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

24. An important ground rule

I mostly agree with cally, but I'd like to add that both partners should be on the same page. It's unethical to declare or to allow the other person to believe that there's potential for some lasting relationship when all you want is a quickie and plan to move on afterward.

[Ellen Forradalom]

25. "Yes, please."

:evilgrin:

[SarahB]

26. I agree with your assessments.

I guess I'm trying to figure this all out after lots of emotional turns and awakenings this past year. Sometimes I wonder if being in an "open" marriage would make me want to stay in my marriage, but I'm more of the monogamous type and he would never go for it anyway.
Pardon me, just thinking out loud again....

[supernova]

29. While I'm definitely monogamous

and would require a partner who felt the same, I have no problem with other couples who mark out different expectations. As long as everyone understands each other, I don't see a problem.

[lazarus]

35. consenting adults

That's it.

[Guaranteed]

37. How's that different from the conservative sexual morals? nt

[Delano]

38. Whatever a person feels like doing...

So long as all the participants are willing, human, and over the age of consent.

Adulterous liaisons can be perfectly okay if both partners have an open relationship.

It would bother me if my wife were to do that, but I know some people have open marriages. If they can handle it emotionally. I'm not about to tell them what to do.

[fujiyama]

39. .