parents of 16-17 yr old girls -- help

[Bertha Venation]

My niece, CB, will be seventeen in December. She says "humans suck." Her mother took her out of school & began a home school because she -- IQ near 180 -- was failing. Now my sister is certain CB can get her GED, but the girl won't schedule her GED, won't call DMV to schedule her driving tests. Until she has a license & GED she can't get a job. How convenient.

I asked my sister, "any idea why she is so unmotivated to join life?"

She replied, "if you ask her, she'd say because "humans suck". Apparently, we are the scum of the earth and she's too good to have to associate with the rest of us. But really, partly I think she just doesn't understand what she's avoiding. She thinks it's much worse than it really is. Also, she's probably got a touch of agoraphobia. I haven't told her I think that, cuz she'd just latch on to it as an excuse. But I do think it's there. She seems afraid to go anywhere alone. Even to take the trash out to the curb. Maybe I'm wrong and it's more laziness than fear (asking someone to go with her is more to help with the job rather than avoid being alone?)"

Can you fine DUers -- parents of 16-17 year old girls -- relate to this? Understand it? Offer any suggestions? Any similar situations? How about -- do we have any 16-17 yr old young women DUers?

Help?

[jpgray]

1. Sounds to me like she's just insecure

The superiority act sounds like a classic response to adolescent insecurity. Let me guess, not too many boyfriends or friends in general that she hangs out with all the time?

[Bertha Venation]

3. two girlfriends, never had a boyfriend

these girls are the only kids she ever hangs w/ besides her brother (13).

thanks, jp. Interesting . . . .

[jpgray]

6. It does sound like a rationalization to me

Sort of a 'if I don't think I can hack it, I'll claim it's beneath me' kind of thing. That can apply to social interaction, a job, further schooling, a test, whatever--fear of failure or general insecurity can lead to a refusal to try and a rationalization for doing so.

[southpaw]

14. I had a bad case of the "I Hate Everybodys" at that age...

Insecurity. Low self-esteem. Had not developed a healthy social life. I eventually got over it, but it was tough going for a while.

[Bertha Venation]

15. you seem to have turned out okay

You give me hope. :bounce:

You're still pretty young, right? 20s?

[southpaw]

18. I'm 38.

Your turn...

AND... check out this thread ;)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=105x1494356

[Bertha Venation]

21. I'll be forty-one and a half in seventeen days.

:pals:

[southpaw]

22. I'll remember to wish you a happy half-birthday...

On the 27th, if I count right... :party:

BTW... the 'white supremacy' thing was no reflection on you. Just a tip of the hat, my dear! :hug:

[Bertha Venation]

23. oh, heavens, I know. no worries.

and am I that out of touch with my brain? it's the 22nd. ;)

[eyesroll]

2. Not a parent, but I was a 16-17 year old girl awhile back

I went through an "everyone sucks" phase at that age, but not to that extreme. (My outlet was writing -- I wrote bad horror stories in which people exploded.)

Could she be depressed? Your sister may want to talk to your neice's doctor.

[Bertha Venation]

4. she writes, too

stuff along fantasy lines, real big into LOTR and anime, etc. She also draws. She's pretty good.

It's common family knowledge that she'd do well to see a therapist -- we all need to. A doc regulates antidepressants. It's not enough, but my sister can't afford the therapist. It's one of the reasons she wants CB to work.

thanks, eyes.

[goju]

5. Girls no, teens yes

take away the tv, shut off the computer, dont buy her favorite foods, rent movies, buy clothes etc, and generally leave her sitting at home with nothing to do unless she does for herself. Displeasure everywhere. The point is not to be mean but to encourage her to get off her butt. If she does have agoraphobia, medication and counseling. You should be able to discern that within a week or 2 of removing every possible comfort at home and encouraging her to "go get it yourself".

No friends I assume? Does she talk on the phone? If not, she's probably not agoraphobic, just a testy, moody teen too smart for her own good, right now. Tell her if she dont like people, get a job at the zoo! Only say it nicely ;)

[librechik]

7. Been there--if you take the pressure off, she will find her own way.

doesn't work to try to talk her out of it or into it,or force her or whatever. She knows what is expected, and you have tried nudging, so let it go. She's old enough to make her own decisions about such things, so let her.

Just give her a warm secure place to come home to as she tentatively reaches out and makes her early decisions and mistakes. Show her you trust her, and it's ok to be different. She sounds like a perfectly normal and possibly shy young woman. Give her some wiggle room to find herself. It might not be on the exact same schedule as her peers, tho, so get ready to be supportive and forgiving.

Don't exclude her from family functions, but if she wants to stay away, let her. You will know if this is anything serious like a depression, and of course don't let that go unconfronted. But they usually get bored and stop acting this way after a few months. (or years)

Ain't motherhood grand?

[silverlib]

8. Back to school system...

If she was taken out of school to help her pass and she still isn't making the effort, then her parents might consider putting her back into public schools, not as a punishment, but because the other way simpling didn't work. The school system has counselors and programs that could help point her in the right direction. They certainly may not be as great as a paid counselor, but it would be more than she is getting outside the system. I have an almost sixteen year-old. She has different problems, though.

Good luck. None of us make the best decisions for our children all the time, simply because we don't know what is best. My advice might be the worst for this particular adolescent. I wish they came with standard packaging.

[Carrion]

9. Huh?

This whole story sounds bogus. A 180 IQ is higher than Einstein. If you daughter is really that smart then you should consider that she is right and you are wrong. About everything.

[Bertha Venation]

12. You didn't even read the damned post, Pal.

:eyes:

[Bertha Venation]

16. But just for you, I checked with my sister.

(Yes, my sister -- this is my niece. I told you you didn't even read the post.)

She replied, "Her last IQ test was 184 if I remember correctly."

I want to stay in the good graces of my gracious hosts, so the only other thing I'll say to you, is walk toward the light.

[Bjornsdotter]

36. Sorry...

...but it is possible to have a child with an IQ of 180....I know I live with one; tested by the best at the University of Chicago.

Cheers,
Kim :toast:

As for Einstein...it's all relative. Imagine what his IQ would be if he were born into today's world.

[Fleshdancer]

10. It could very well be agoraphobia

My best friend is finally seeking help for agoraphobia...it's not something to take lightly. It started out as something similiar to your niece but eventually it got worse and he would have full blown panic attacks every time he left the house. His parents thought he was lazy or an alcoholic (he didn't have insurance and was using alcohol as a way to self medicate because it calmed his nerves). I confronted his father with all the research I had done and convinced him that his son needed help. The last thing I wanted was for 5 years to go by and find out that my friend decided to commit suicide.

As for your neice, it must be extremely difficult to have that high of an IQ at an age when no one takes you seriously. Growing up sucks enough for the average teenager, I can't imagine what it's like for her.

If you're worried it may be something more than lack of motivation, then do something about it. Trust your instincts and get her the help she may very well need.

[MichiganVote]

11. Yes we humans do suck but not as bad as some other things

High or very high IQ people often have trouble mixing it up with other people and lack the sort of give and take the rest of us sucky average IQ's have. SO. What to do. First understand she has total control. You are powerless over her choices. The problems are hers. You are the less sucky human who wants to help her if you can.

Try a Doctor. If that doesn't work--

There are professionals who understand kids or adults with these issues and can act as motivators. If she will agree to discuss her future plans with someone who can be impartial, great.

If not, any person who does appear to have meaning to her can be an ally in her concerns.

After these types of interventions have been attempted or even in conjunction with them, think about what motivates her to stick around. What does she enjoy, love, get into? Those are the things she can do more of IF she agrees to give up somethings in return such as, school failure, muddy attitude or assuming other responsibilities. There is not point in encouraging her to get a drivers license if she cannot handle the responsibility of the average things teens do. We have enough youth on the road who can't be trusted with a 3500lb. vehicle. That's sucky.

Good luck, don't give up and remember some human beings have been suckless such as those who win the Nobel Peace Prize, men and women who find cures for things, guys like Chris Reed who manage to keep on keeping on despite huge odds and Democrats like us who have to put up with George Bush the moron.

She is welcome to earn the reward for most lazy in life without an excuse but we'd all appreciate it if she devoted herself to the sucky humans. Who knows? Maybe she can make us all better!!

[JVS]

13. I think you may have to sit her down and tell her to get her act together

Sure people suck. But that is no excuse for her to let her life go to waste. It sounds like she has a lot of potential, but even great potential can go to waste if not cultivated. I'd tell her that her future is in danger if she continues to remains inactive, whether the cause is depression, agoraphobia or just plain teenage moodyness. The worlds has plenty of people with high IQ's who never were able to get their lives on a good setting (I have several friends who are smart but can't get it together) and it can be rough on them, so it is very important that she take the opportunities that life provides and makes the most of it.

[yellowcanine]

20. If someone is depressed - telling them to "get their act together" is

counterproductive. If they could do that they would have. No one wants to be depressed.

[Kat45]

17. She coud have clinical depression or another psych disorder

It would be great if she could get an evaluation from a psychiatrist, because meds can help tremendously in these cases. It sounds like it is beyond just laziness. You mentioned her writing. Is that something she considers a private activity, or does she let her mother read her work? Perhaps she would be interested in a writing group, where she could meet others with whom she shares a common interest and share her writing with others.

[yellowcanine]

19. That's my hunch also. 16-17 is a high risk age , particularly for women

for depression and/or other mental disorders. No motivation to "get on with her life" - there is something going on here.

[MrSandman]

24. Needs professional evaluation...

by an experienced psychologist...not online.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

25. I went through this through my high school years

It started out slowly and I just sunk deeper and deeper. I carved up my body, I didn't want to go anywhere. I went from third in my graduating class down to 30 something-ith and maybe further. I didn't do my homework, I didn't WANT to be anywhere. I remember I just wanted to get home as fast as possible curl up and sleep because sleep was an escape. I cried constantly and lashed out at everyone. I cried because I was so alone inside and I cried because I wanted to kill myself but was afraid. I cried because I was too cowardly to kill myself. Thank God the school let me finish off at home or I would have just dropped out. I remember feeling just...numb. Nothing interested me anymore, I never got excited about anything. Then after I cut up my hand I think, my mom tricked me and drove me to the hospital. I screamed I hated her for it. HATED HER. I told her I'd kill myself and that that would show her. So she agreed as long as I got help from meds she wouldn't make me go to the hospital. I was so angry and I hated her for it. The meds took a LONG time to work. That's another thing. I kept feeling "cured" even though I wasn't, not by a long shot. You can always look back and say "I was so messed up" but when you're living it, you feel fine, like it's just normal. Slowly slowly slowly I went out more and was able to get back into the swing of things. I still have side effects from the medication, dry mouth and insomnia if I don't take one of my meds, but I don't lash out anymore and I can get up the courage to actually go somewhere. The key is, people who need help don't know it. I hated my mom for making me go there, I told her and screamed that at her. But now I see that she did the truly loving thing. It must have broken her heart to have her daughter scream that at her (we had a really good relationship and do now as well) and she must have really wanted to just leave me alone, but if she had, I would have eventually committed suicide. It's tough being a parent, I salute all of you. Good luck with your daughter.

[Bertha Venation]

26. Quark

Thanks. I've had similar experiences. The more you grow, the farther away you get from the terrifying shit that is the beginning of recovery, the easier life gets. Best to you. :hi:

[SemiCharmedQuark]

34. Thanks

You too, best to you and your Niece :)

[Bertha Venation]

27. everyone, forgive me for the impersonal group reply, but THANK YOU.

I sent your replies to my sister, and then just sent her the thread. I hope she comes around tonight and reads it. Especially the one moran in the bunch -- like my niece could never be smarter than Uncle Albert. :eyes:

I appreciate you all for taking the time to think about this and offer your ideas or similar experiences. :yourock: and so does DU.

[happyslug]

28. Sounds like Schizophrenia, not depression.

This is what the American Psychiatric Association has to say of the onset of Schizophrenia:

Generally, schizophrenia begins during adolescence or young adulthood. Its symptoms appear gradually and family and friends may not notice them as the illness takes initial hold. Often, the young man or woman feels tense, can't concentrate or sleep, and withdraws socially. But at some point, loved ones realize the patient's personality has changed. Work performance, appearance and social relationships may begin to deteriorate."
http://www.psych.org/public_info/schizo.cfm

For more on Schizophrenia:
http://www.nimh.nih.gov/publicat/schizoph.cfm#schiz4

http://www.nami.org/Template.cfm?Section=By_Illness&template=/ContentManagement/ContentDisplay.cfm&ContentID=7416


One last comment, Schizophrenia and High Intelligence seems to have some tie in. Many highly intelligent people suffer from (or have symptoms of) Schizophrenia.

When scientists study high intelligence they do not know where it comes from and where it goes (I am speaking of people with IQ 140+). In studies of such high IQ people and their children, it is rare for the parents of such children to have so high an intelligence and rare for it to be passed on to their children (And as you go more than 2 generation from the 140+ IQ, IQs of 140 become rarer and rarer).

The same with Schizophrenia (Through it is rare for Schizophrenia to have children do to the lack of an ability to keep and maintain friends lets alone a sexual relationship). It is unknown where it comes from and where it goes. There is some tie in but the relationship is unknown.

What tips me to Schizophrenia is her lack of friends. It is one of the first characteristics of someone with Schizophrenia. She is of the right age (Her late teens, through women first tend to exhibit signs of Schizophrenia it in their early 20s, males tend to do so in their mid-teens, so she is right in between and thus of the right age).

Personal note: I have studied Schizophrenia ever since I took a MMPI (Minnesota Multi-plastic Index Exam) several years ago. I took the Exam to be the guinea pig in a discussion between my law firm and a Psychologist (and what he can and can not say as part of his medical expertise at hearings). One thing that fell out of my taking the MMPI was that I had a mild Schizophrenia tendency (and I have an IQ over 140, a good bit over 140 but my tendency for social isolation, which is one of my Schizophrenia characteristics, has always prevented me from seeing how much higher).

I would recommend you have this child examined by a Psychiatrists and/or a Psychologists to see what is her problem, sounds like Schizophrenia, and if it is she and her family will have to learn to work with her and her Schizophrenia.

[Doctor_J]

29. first, get some professional intervention,

second, the is a book out called "reviving ophelia" which id's many of the situations the teen girl and her parents will encounter. Believe it or not, she's not the first one that been in this exact situation ;-)

[dolo amber]

30. Well, I have a 13 yr old

and am barely evolved beyond a 14 yr old myself...and I can say with no hesitation that she is completely right. Humanity is a shit heap. (Present human company excepted, of course...;))

What she really needs to decide is to what extent she's willing to kowtow. Who knows, she may grow up to be an amazing anti-establishment figure...or she may end up as a raving lunatic in a homeless shelter. But if she's got the intellect to realise the *truth*, she may very well have the spiritual fortitude it takes to stick by such beliefs. Regardless, it's a shame to force people who actually see through all the horseshit society and the media foist upon us to *conform*. :)

(2 cents and all of an amazing 14 yr old anti-establishment figure...:D)

[Nlighten1]

31. Sounds like depression.

[seventhson]

32. I have a few thoughts I would like to share. I work with adolescents

and abused/neglected/delinquent kids, etc.

First - in the eyes of the law she is an adult in most respects. She is entitled to choose what she wants or does not want to do - you cannot make her do anything and sooner or later she will probably get bored of being bored and will begin to go out. Society IS in a shambles and staying home IS not such a bad idea. She will grow out of that probably --- but the more you try to MAKE her do something tye less likley she is to want to do it = so let her take the initiative knowing you guys love and support her. Telling her she is weid or there is something wrong with her will just make her MORE depressed and angry. Leave her alone about it. If she is very smart she will be fine. She may not WANT to drive (I know plenty of folks who HATE the idea of driving). That part may be entirely normal.

Look at the long term and not the immediate needs for a GED and a license (both of these will come when she is ready or she will end up hitchhiking to work at Walmart or getting pregnant or hooking up with a stoner boyfriend who lives with his parents and mows lawns to earn beer money))

BUT - there ARE environmental and other factors which migt have caused her biochemical damage. One of the most common is hypothyroid disorder (caused, frequently, by living near leaky nuke plants). Chronic fatiguie, depression, and hormonal and emotiuonal problems are common.

Do some research on hypothyoid disorder (I suggest Broda Barnes foundation website) and remember that the metabolic tests (not the blood tests) are better to assess the situation.

Feel free to dumail me for more info. Depression and fatigue and emotional difficulties caused by environmental factors are very common - especially if you live within 50 miles of a nuke facility and/or are on the water near such a civilian or military facility.

Teens grow out of such phases often and the harder you try to change them the more they resist and just stay the same and dig deeper into their world. Give her freedom to choose but educate yourself on possible metobolic/endocrine system issues.

Good luck

[onebigbadwulf]

33. With more knowledge comes more sorrow

The most brilliant people tend to be the most misanthropic.

Why not let her do her own thing? Once she gets a taste of the necessity of survival she will flourish.

[Bjornsdotter]

35. Gifted...

....as the Mom of a 16 year old boy with an extremely high IQ and a daughter, 15, with a high IQ I can tell you they are quirky.

I pulled both of my kids out of our local school and placed them in a gifted school, which helped our situation.

However, I would suggest you contact some "Parents of Gifted Kids" Group for support and advice. Stats show that the gifted crowd is the most overlooked and have the highest rate of suicide. They also lead with the highest rate of underachievemnt.

For many of these kids, just linking up with others like them helps them to realize they are not alone.

If you have any specific questions email me, I'd be happy to help.

BTW....we worked with the University of Chicago regarding our children...it worked for us.

Cheers,
Kim :toast:

[praxiz]

37. Ignorance is bliss.

Intelligent kids, like her, get depressed and apathic, because they understand too much of what they're up against in the future. But I'm not a shrink so what do I know.

[Sparrow]

38. she is smarter than most people

humans do suck and she is justified in her actions.
It isn't depression or some other stupid label the sheep like to call people who are different.
Tell her mom to stop being a controlling dictator and respect her daughter.

[Bertha Venation]

39. I beg your pardon?

While the opinions you expressed in your first two sentences may carry some validity, your third sentence is outrageous and uncalled for. You have no idea how much my sister respects and admires her daughter, and she has no desire to control the young woman; only to guide her. She has done a damn sight better than the lousy, miserable excuses we had as parental figures.

Like the sorry individual who assumed my niece couldn't possibly be sharper than Einstein, I can only suggest that you buzz off.

:grr: