Foreign language requirements can kiss my ass

[DerekG]

Recalling the spirit of Kleeb:

I am in the honors English program at my university, carrying a 3.89 GPA, yet the specter of the four-semester foreign language requirement has kept me from graduating. I have an immense difficulty learning languages--when I was a tot, I had to attend speech school for two years in order to master English!!!

I didn't go to college to party; rather, I spent my time in the myriad libraries, exploring art, literature, history, the classics. Hell, I know that I'm more intelligent than most of my peers, who practically drowned themselves in liquor and debauchery.

This is profoundly, insufferably galling to me.

P.S. I don't need to hear a lecture extolling the value of knowing how to speak the same words in a different language. One can appreciate a culture without having to know their vernacular.

[JohnKleeb]

1. I agree with you

Foreign Languages are hard for me too, btw congrads on that GPA of yours, that's a great GPA. You raise a good point really, I had loads of trouble with Spanish II this past year in HS. Well hope you're able to graduate, I think its unfair personally.

[Rowdyboy]

2. You have two choices...Refuse, and don't graduate or accomodate

Take a couple of years of Latin. Its VERY easy, far simpler than even Spanish. You can fake it through-I did.

[JohnKleeb]

3. Latin actually I hear is even harder

I was recommended to take Latin after Sophomore year but I wanted to go along with Spanish because I stubbornly believed I would do well in Spanish II and I sigh failed it, my own damn fault but I think I would have struggled in Latin as well.

[Rowdyboy]

6. My best friend teaches 2nd year Spanish in a local high school...

I've picked up quite a bit from being around him. I'm really not a foreign language person, either. I barely passed the required two years of language in college.

[JohnKleeb]

7. its hard aint it man

now call me insane but I want to take Russian in college or Gaelic.

[Rowdyboy]

9. I enrolled in a graduate course in "Old English Literature" studying

classical pieces in the original. John, I lasted about two weeks. It is so dramatically different in structure that its mind-boggling. The letters, the sounds, everything is vastly different. I spent 26 preparing for my second three hour class, and I was totally lost.

Now Gaelic is not quite the same, but I can promise you that you'll have a tough time if you're not comfortable with languages.

[JohnKleeb]

11. literature is very interesting to me

Gaelic would be hell but I want to learn it just to learn it, same way I want to learn specific histories, its interesting but would be hard and harder to find.

[jmowreader]

25. Some Russian phrases that open doors

For centuries, polite people everywhere have known "when in Rome, do as the Romans do." And when in Moscow, one should do as the Muscovites do and speak Russian to them.

One of the most beloved phrases from Moscow to Murmansk, Pruzhany to Petersburg, is "eb tvoyu mats." Say "eb tvoyu mats" to everyone you meet.

Also remember to call your best Russian friends "blyad." They'll love you for it!

Because, after all, Russian is the only language in the world that cannot be properly learned without deep and comprehensive study of its obscenities. Start with the infamous "Dictionary of Russian Obscenities" at http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0933884540/ref=ase_roysrussianresou/103-6271857-5187819?v=glance&s=books

Russian also attaches connotations to its modifiers. One I remember is the word "very." They use samyj (as in "samyj khorosho" or very good) in the positive sense, and "ochen" (as in "ochen glupi" or very fat) as the case may be.

[pagerbear]

33. Get thee back to English class, you man!

"I was recommended to take...."
Geez! What are they teaching these young people nowadays?

(said with tongue in cheek--but only partly)

[DerekG]

5. I took Latin in High School...

The only reason I passed was due to my knowledge of Greek and Roman mythology--my teacher had a soft spot for that kind of thing. I tried French in my first semester, but I couldn't wrap my mind around the silent pronunciation. I couldn't decipher the majority of spoken French.

Spanish is my only hope. :scared:

Did I mention that I despise these language requirements?

[Rowdyboy]

10. Just keep an open mind...Spanish is not that hard if you just relax...

Good luck!

[DarkPhenyx]

4. Actually you can't.

Though I do hear that argument a lot from people who want to debate against language classes in School. No surprise.

[Nite Owl]

8. Between high schoold and college I

had five years of French. I can hardly speak a word today.

[name not needed]

16. That's because

Nobody in France will ever ask you what color shirt you are wearing or how much cheese costs.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

21. Five years of French and can't speak

That's because no one has asked you to recently.

If you went to France and actually stayed there for a while, you would be way ahead of the person who has no background. You would already be able to read a lot, and gradually, your ears would become accustomed to listening to people talk, especially if you watched a lot of television. (Yes, being a couch potato is good for something!)

Foreign languages never really go away. They lie dormant.

I haven't studied Spanish since high school, but about two years ago, a friend hosted a non-English-speaking guest from Costa Rica for two weeks, and in order to take some of the pressure off herself, she invited any of her friends who had EVER studied Spanish to join in some of the activities. I was surprised at how far I could get by on pidgin Spanish, especially since the Costa Rican woman was very patient and often supplied the word I was looking for.

[WindRavenX]

12. Perhaps consider taking a foreign language class in the summer...

...that way you can focus all your time and energy 100% on that one subject.
I am in the same boat, but with the math requirement for my biology degree- I have taken one semester of 100 level Calculus, struggled and got a C, and have refused to waste any more tuition money on the higher level class. I just don't have the time to take it at my college- not with my class load for next semester consisting of molecular cell bio, organic chem, molecular cell bio lab, organic chem lab, Islamic civilization, and intro to feminism. Calculus is so hard for me, and I am sure to fail if I ever try to take it with my schedule now :D
So, I intend to take Calc. 110 next summer so I can pass and get my bio degree.
Plus, taking the foreign language @ a CC could help cheapen tuition costs.
Good luck! :hi:

[Coventina]

18. Just finished two semesters of French in summer

at a community college!!

It was tough, but I think it was a good way to do it.
The class was Monday through Thursday 7-10am!!
It was almost like immersion, because it was everyday for 3 hours!
I learned a lot.
I have to pass a foreign language exam to stay in my master's program, so I hope this will do it for me.

Best of luck (or "Bon Chance" as the French would say!) to all facing similar challenges. It's tough!

[DulceDecorum]

13. When you first learn

to drive automatic,
you have to learn the rules of the road and everything else first.
When you learn to drive stick,
you already know all that
and just have to worry about the clutch and the gears.

When you learn your first language, you muddle along.
When you learn your second langage,
it is MUCH easier because you already have a way that people can explain things to you.
I think it is very important to learn at least one language other than English because it actually does something to your brain.
No kidding. Honestly, you think differently once you have another language. It is almost like putting on glasses when you didn't know that you needed them. The world is suddenly so sharp and clear and in focus and a little bit frightening.

But first
you have to overcome your fear and anger at changing your mode of thinking.

Start by hanging out with people who speak that other language.
In private, immitate their accent.
This is because every language demands that you hold your mouth differently and use another set of muscles. Once you can do a decent impression of someone from that language group speaking in English, then you can pronounce the words of that language properly.
Then you need to lose your inhibitiions and stop taking yourself seriously. A person with your GPA will not find this easy to do.But remember, outside Finnish, English is just about the most difficult language to learn as an adult.

You've come a long way baby. Just take a few more steps.

[Donkeyboy75]

14. Learning a foreign language isn't just knowing how to describe the

same objects and ideas with different phonetics. Often, learning a language offers a window into how people of that culture think. I'm sorry you have a tough time with it, but others have a tough time with math and science. Doesn't mean they should be able to opt out of it...


Good luck to you, though.

[Nikia]

15. What are your choices?

Every college offers different languages with some being more commmon than others. If you want a language that is pronounced how it is spelled, take Italian. Things are spelled according to the rules. There aren't silent letters like there are in French.
If you aren't as good at actually learning to have conversations in language, some classical language departments have much less emphasis on this than modern languages especially at the second year level.
If you learn better in a smaller class, you might want to take a less common language with lower enrollment rather than Spanish or French which probably are at or close to the enrollment limit.
If you go to a smaller college, talk with perspective professors from these classes to see what they except from students. When you enroll in class, be sure to let the professor know what you have trouble with and see if you can get tutoring.

[Throckmorton]

17. Ever think about becomming a stone mason?

Very much in demand round these parts, and no language requirements at all.

[psychopomp]

19. Why appreciate when you can *know*?

It is great to be able to know another culture, another interpretation of things. You can learn new ideas.

Try Spanish. I heard it is easy to learn.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

20. Former language teacher here

In eleven years, I dealt with all kinds of students who had trouble with foreign language learning. Here are some of the reasons, and more importantly, what you can do about them.

Problem #1) Difficulty with hearing/processing oral language. I knew a Yalie who flunked out of both French and German. When she switched to religious studies and developed an interest in early Christian theology, she was told that she'd have to learn Latin and Greek if she ever wanted to do grad work in it. Latin didn't fit into her schedule, so she signed up for Greek and was astonished to find out that she could do well in it, simply because no one is ever required to speak ancient Greek. So try Latin if it's oral language that is holding you back.

Problem #2) Nerves and fear of failure. This is a major reason that Japanese people have more trouble learning English than Chinese people do. Sometimes I could see students' brains shutting down in class, whether teaching English in Japan or Japanese in the States. The most important thing to remember is that it doesn't matter if you make a mistake speaking, because everyone else will, too, and the teacher doesn't expect you to be perfect.

My best English class in Japan was at a beer company, because the students drank beer during class. After two glasses of beer, you couldn't shut them up. Before the beer, they sat staring at the floor, as Japanese students of English often do.

So relax. Think up silly ways of studying, if that's what it takes. Get together with other students who are studying the same language, and try to make up silly sentences or recombinations of the dialogues.

Watch movies or TV programs in that language. It doesn't matter that you don't understand everything. The point is to become familiar with the sounds and rhythm of the language and to see how many words you can catch.

Start a study group. Do your homework individually (emphasis on the individually), and then compare answers. If you differ in ways that aren't just personal preference, figure out who's right and why. (This does not mean just copying another student's answers verbatim. Instructors can tell.)

Problem #3) Not knowing HOW to study a language. Every subject area has its own best study techniques. I had trouble with math for years because I tried to study it as if it were a humanity or social science. I got Cs in math in high school, but by the time I started taking it again in adult education classes, I had figured out how to study it and got As and Bs, although math will NEVER be easy for me.

Consult your professor about how to study. Believe it or not, we actually prefer coaching students to seeing them whimpering in a corner of the classroom. If your professor is uncongenial or unable to help you, find a some A students and ask them how they study.

By the way, a native speaker is not always the best tutor at the beginning level, because native speakers don't know how to explain their own language in terms that an English-speaker will understand. If you hire a tutor, hire another American who is an advanced student. However, native speaker tutors are great on the second year level and above.

Problem #4) Having a poor visual memory. I ran into this frequently with students who could speak pretty well but were completely thrown by kanji in odd ways, such as not realizing that a three-character word couldn't be pronounced in one syllable. If visual memory is your problem, definitely stick to the Latin alphabet.

As far as the choice of a language is concerned, pick the language of a country that you're interested in. Spanish is relatively easy and useful, but if you're not interested in Spain or Latin America, you'll have trouble staying motivated. If you like Italy or Brazil, for example, take Italian or Portuguese, because they're just as easy as Spanish, and you'll stay motivated because of your interest in other aspects of the culture.

Remember that in Europe it is considered absolutely normal for an educated person to speak two or three foreign languages. This isn't because Europeans are smarter; it's because they grow up expecting to learn languages and believing that anyone can do it.

Because America is the only industrialized country that doesn't require foreign language instruction for graduation from the college-prep curriculum in high school, people here have this idea that languages are incredibly difficult and that only geniuses could possibly take two at once.

It's nonsense.

So my advice is pick the right language, get help with study techniques, and above all, RELAX!

[Padraig18]

22. Actually, you DO need the lecture.

Most of the Western World in at least bi-lingual, and the selfish ethnocentricity represented b your statement is the linguistic equivalent of Marie Antoinette's 'Let them eat cake'. Suck it up and apply some of 3.89 GPA brain power to learning a second language...

[politicat]

23. If you have tried - and I mean TRIED, not whined...

to learn a spoken language and cannot, see if you can get your school to approve American Sign Language ( not Signed English) as a language.

Some people who cannot process spoken languages well process signed languages beautifully.

However, don't try this until you've devoted at least a summer to trying to learn a spoken/written language. If you can't spend a summer semester immersing yourself in a foreign language and come up able to at least speak a little, then you may have a language processing fault in your brain.

If you can spend a summer immersed in a language and learn it, then basically, you're being a typical Murrikan and not thinking outside the box.

It's worth exactly what you put into it.

Pcat (who does sympathize, but doesn't much like whining....)

[amazona]

24. it is difficult for some of us, isn't it

You can do it. Don't beat yourself up. Let a C be good enough, and you may surprise yourself. Spanish is the most natural language in my humble opinion for those of us who are not very well spoken. At least it's phonetic and it seems to have a logic to it that English never had. Also don't hesitate to a hire a tutor if you can afford it or find out if there is free tutoring at the language lab. My Spanish is still terrible and actual Spanish-speaking people switch to English or else take me by the hand to lead me where I am going when I try to talk to them in Spanish...but hey...it isn't about mastery in your case, it's about jumping through a hoop. It sounds like you want to excel, which is admirable, but if you can't excel, sometimes good enough is good enough. A hard lesson for those of us who feel we always have to go for the A.

[Obamarama]

26. It's called jumping through the hoops, and you have no choice...

So quit whining and deal with it. You're an honors student for chrissake. You are obviously bright and capable and I'm sure you'll do tres bien.

[Moonbeam_Starlight]

27. Yep

I had a total of four years of Spanish from grades 6-12, but my university told me ALL liberal arts majors had to have two semesters of a foreign language to get a degree.

So I took Spanish I over the summer (mistake!) from the professor from HELL.

Made an F. Cried my eyes out, only F I ever made in college.

Spanish II from the coolest, best professor EVER. Seriously, he was good and I actually enjoyed the class. Made a B. Had to retake the Spanish I thing but did it at home through my local junior college.

I feel ya.

Vaya con Dios.

[worksux]

28. this post makes me sad :-( (the original poster, that is)

why do you think Europe hates Dubya? he BARELY speaks Spanish and had never left the US except for Canada and Mexico before he took office as yours and my president.Moi, I had 2 yrs of French in high school- went to Brussels and Paris and did my best-people were extremely nice and flattered that I even tried.
So just try, dude. If you are THAT smart- like did you take only fairy classes like Beowulf and Thomas Hardy or did you have to meet a math requirement too? I did to get my BA from Arizona State University. (meaning took the rest of my requirement in French as well.) Plus for math I took college algebra-never calculus. My degree was in History (a gut if you ask me).

Aren't you interested in other cultures?

Not meaning to sound cross, but working with a tudor helps- I was a "non-traditional" student-graduated at age 30.
Yo! You can do it!!!

[Moonbeam_Starlight]

29. Ok

I didn't know there were any fairies in Beowulf and Hardy novels. Who knew? And I was an English major!

And are there any Tudors near him to help? Don't they all live in England?

[worksux]

30. wait time out! explanation

I mean "fairy" classes are classes you take to pad your GPA, that don't require you to work, like my LAST semseter to get my BA I was short 2 hours (?) but all CLASSES were 3 hrs, I had taken a graduate type seminar back earlier that was for ONE credit hour- so to "pay" for it I took Western Civ 102 like modern Europe-a Gut! that's what I mean by a fairy class. A class for me where I don't even need to buy the text book..(Music 101 was another class like that for me.)
Phew. Glad I got that cleared up..
:-)
Kat

[pagerbear]

35. No. You haven't gotten that cleared up

That is not a satisfactory explanation of "fairy classes". Perhaps you would like to explain further to this fairy why he should not be offended at your use of that phrase.

[politicat]

31. too bad all the tudors died....

Says the ASU history major. :hi: Cute typo, though.

Class of 96 for the BA, European (emphasis on medieval, eastern Euro)...

And you are??

Pcat

[worksux]

32. oh hi! Kathryn Stone-r/o

if you did Eastern Euro I am sure you Had Batalden-he kicked my ass in Eastern Europe and the Balkans. I was the teacher's pet for Dr. Kleinfeld-took Modern Euro and Holocaust from him.Dr. Khan for Modern Japan from the Meiji Restoration .Etc Etc, I started as freshman at Emory and needed a less cliquish campus. So I came to ASU-love it!
I Currently take classes to get a paralegal cert in Dallas where I now live-I worked in brokerage (Schwab, Smith Barney etc) from 97-03. Took a vacation and decided I didn't want to go back so no I am a poor student again LOL!

So, how are you "using" your History degree? Like did you open up a little History shop? (Jay Leno)
Cheers-
Kathryn

[pagerbear]

34. You want him to work with Henry VIII?

A Tudor?

Oh, and what are fairy classes? Care to explain that one?

[pagerbear]

36. Did they slip this requirement in while you weren't looking?

One night they changed the requirements while everyone slept? Did you have no knowledge of this requirement before applying or matriculating? No? Then why the hell are you whining now?

Sorry for my cross tone. I understand some people have difficulty learning languages, just like have difficulty with math or science or writing. But I'm not sympathetic at all toward your attitude about the requirement. Take the excellent advice some other posters have offered. Add to that my suggestion of using tapes or CDs in your car as you drive around from one museum to another. (I've found the Pimsleur to be quite good.)

I, for one, am pissed off this country doesn't have more stringent educational requirements, including foreign languages and the study of the classics. For that matter, why don't we have a nationalized education system? Is math or reading different in Illinois than in South Carolina?

Getting off my soap box now.