When I first slept with a woman my Father was relieved I wasn't gay!

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

This has stuck with me. I've always been a sensitive artistic bloke. This fried my Dad's circuitry. Boys played football, drank beer and, most of all, nailed some chicks. Not me.

I was forever the best friend of all the girls I had huge crushes on. I was more interested in drawing and listening to music then kegging and chasing cheerleaders. I was always into girls who were mysterious, non-conformist - bad ass Joan Jett types (or goth-girls grrrr)

When I finally lost my virginity at the societally geriatric age of 20 my father breathed an audible sigh of relief. He actually (one day when we were moving me into my Manhattan art school dorm) patted me on the back and said "I'm proud you're finally gettin' some" - I SHIT YOU NOT!

How fucked up is that?

Thanks for letting me vent. I've come to find this both funny and sad. It never did anything to me psychologically. It just made me feel bad for him. Maybe his rampant homophobia is a front for something buried inside from years of macho, born in the 50's, American bullshit?

[regularguy]

1. Note to self:

When the boy gets older, try to refrain from refering to women as "some".

You're right, that little story is both funny and sad. Did you know before then that he was so on edge about your , um , getting of said "some"?

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

2. Yeah - he was always trying to make a "Man" out of me

Foolishness. He did send me to art school though so - it wasn't all machismo. I was encouraged - just misunderstood, by him that is.

[NewJeffCT]

3. I never told my parents

I was painfully shy throughout my young life (and, I'm still not exactly the life of the party at 37) and never even dated until I was in college. I don't think my parents worried I was gay or anything, though. Naturally, the women I've dated most seriously over the years have had one main thing in common - they've generally been the opposite of my personality-wise: very outgoing.

So, when I finally had sex at the really late age of 22 - two weeks after I graduated college, I never told them. It took me 9 months of practically begging one girl before she finally took sympathy on me and had sex with me. (We had dated several times and were good friends in the beginning.) I was more embarrassed that it took me so long than anything. And, frankly, my parents never really told me anything about the 'birds & the bees'...

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

5. My parents were practicly cheering me on in highschool and beyond

I told them so they'd shut the hell up.

I guess my father and I have a very limited set of bonding situations which he has deemed acceptible for the two of us. We have a kind of drinking buddy relationship so it naturally came out.

[NewJeffCT]

15. I was always kind of embarrassed about those things

Several months before I slept with that young woman, I had brought her home to my house and I would constantly get questions from my parents (she had lost her car keys, so I had picked her up - she ended up as a magna cum laude grad from 2 very good colleges, but was absent minded as hell...)

So, being the quiet, private type, I was kind of annoyed about all the questions. A few months later, I was with my mom at a local mall when I ran into a woman I knew from school at the mall. She was a cute Italian girl, so my mom would ask me questions about her for months. (I'm sure my mom, being Italian, would have loved for me to marry a nice Italian girl)

So, I kind of quit talking about any woman that I dated after that with them.

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

17. That sucks man

Its a shame when we can't communicate openly with those people closest to us. So much of my baggage comes from that - to be sure!

Well, you seem to have turned out alright! :)

[terrya]

4. Sadly, your father's attitude isn't all that unusual.

We have had to do a lot of educating to our parents when it comes to homosexuality. I remember when I came out to my parents (first my mom). She cried and cried when I told her. And then she came out with the most outlandish stuff...telling me that all homosexual men preyed on children (and I had to repeat over and over how I was NOT sexually attracted to boys). How homosexuals were prey to blackmail (I had to stifle a laugh over that. But, remember...she was an adult during the 50's and McCarthyism...and it WAS thought to be true then). And she also told me that homosexual men were desperately unhappy.

I had to contend with her thinking...and the attitudes she learned growing up. Gay men were "sexual perverts". All the sodomy laws were in place when she was growing up. Gay men were "mentally ill" and criminals. But ultimately, through education and realizing that her gay son is NOT a monster or mentally ill, her attitudes towards homosexuality have been enlightened. She fully accepts gay people and homosexuality in general.

I hope your father can be open to learning about gay people. I think he can.

Terry

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

7. Well to add fuel to the fire of my Dad's fears - one of my closest friends

is a very open homosexual man. So I never had a problem being affectionate with him when my Dad was around. I took extra pleasure in the hug and kiss hello and goodbye :evilgrin: - it must have driven him CRAZY!!! :)

I don't know what happened back then but it sure did a doozy on men in this country!

Rock on Terry - I admire the hell out of you! :yourock:

[terrya]

13. Your comment proves that you're 100% hetero, CStT.

Dammit! :-)

But your comments about the affection you display towards your gay friend. It's been my contention that guys who are thoroughly comfortable with their sexuality are ok with displaying affection towards other guys.

And I admire the hell out of you, CStT. You're one of the good ones. :-)

:yourock:

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

16. Thanks! So are you!

Frankly it's refreshing to hug and kiss a man like I would any of my female friends.

*sigh* - oh well!

- Peace

[pagerbear]

36. Can I have a kiss then?

Pagerwink

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

39. I'd give you a kiss if we were in person - but where

I wonder?

[pagerbear]

40. Come to NYC for the 8/28 party, dude!

Oh, I think some political things are happening that weekend as well. ;-)

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

41. A whole gang of my friends are coming the 29th

will you be around?

[pagerbear]

42. You betcha!

[Gryffindor_Bookworm]

30. I really admire you.

I've watched the whole men-showing-affection thing my whole life. It's fascinating to me, how hard it is for so many men.

I have five brothers. I hug and kiss them all every time I see them (one isn't speaking to me right now, but I hope to get that behind us soon). One of them is very laid-back and easy-going. He hugs and kisses everyone in the family. One will hug and kiss me, mom, and dad -- but not his brothers. The other three are affectionate with their children but not the rest of us. I swear, I could be going off to war, and one of my brothers would solemnly shake my hand.

I know it's not my fault, but it makes me feel bad that those three are so distant.

[vi5]

6. I'm sorry to hear that. But I have to say it does make me feel...

..like I don't appreciate my dad enough. I was the same type of kid/teen as you described. Didn't like sports, more artistic, sensitive, etc. My dad wasn't an overly macho guy but he was definitely a guy born in the late 40's who was incredibly straight and narrow, older school italian catholic guy from New Jersey, engineering type football and baseball loving fella. But he supported me in everything I did even when he didn't understand it (which was most of the time). He took me to all my concerts as a kid, from Rush, to Iron Maiden, to Metallica, on through The Ramones and the Replacements. He never made me feel bad for not being into sports even though he was. He never made me feel bad or try and change my liberal views even if they sometimes confused him. He was there front and center for every school play I was in, even though he wouldn't know Chekov from checkers.

If you take no other positive spin from today's reminiscence of your relationship with your dad, know that it at least made me think of my dad fondly today and appreciate him that much more than I may have otherwise.

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

9. Thanks! Don't get me wrong- My Dad is a great guy. Very liberal

he made me the caring progressive I am today - he's just got some momophobia mysogeny issues he isn't addressing. He got drunk one night and finally grabbed me and told me how proud he was of me and how he's admired me all these years (I cried like a fucking BABY that night. My fiance can attest to it)

What I'm trying to say is - it wasn't all bad! :)

[vi5]

11. Well, either way it did make me think...so that's always good...

To be honest with you it's always amazed me that my parents were liberal on issues like race and homosexuality. Both of their sets of parents were completely racist (maybe not more so than the norm for their generation, but still) and I'm positive they (my grandparents) were not fond of whatever they knew of homosexuality.

But even though my parents never had any gay friends or anything like that, they were still always very understanding of gay friends I had and also made sure to let me know that being homophobic was just as bad as being racist or sexist or anything else.

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

12. Good for you

That is a blessing!

No sarcasm btw!

[The Traveler]

8. I see that we have similar tastes in women

Joan Jett ... Goth girls ... yeah!

I know what you're talking about here.

Everyone in my high school thought I was gay until I fell in with a much of motorheads who helped me transform my Dad's Impala into a monster to be feared ... "The Green Machine" as it was universally known. Armed thus with poetry and a really fast car, I became rather popular among the more literate and adventurous girls ...

It is kinda funny how people wonder about a guy's orientation if he actually uses his brain.

I still read poetry and I still work on cars under a shade tree. I can't help it ... I still love turning wrenches. My garage is crammed with tools. Everybody drops by with their automotive problems. They bring beer. This is good. BTW if you ever break down in Norcross ...

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

10. The sensitive motorhead - we had a name for guys like you

Torques! :)

That sounds a lot like my older brother (different father) he succombed to the societal pressures and always put on a macho front, though I knew better. This caused him serious relationship problems because he couldn't be honest about his feelings. This bullshit machismo in our country has fucked up many a good man!

[The Traveler]

14. Yer right about that, bud

Human beings are by nature multi-faceted. Too often, we feel pressured or discouraged from showing certain of those facets.

Funny. I live in a largely Repug neighborhood, where most of these "tough guys" have no clue about changing their oil and think it kind of odd that I actually do my own work. Apparently, I am considered "low class" because I do. (It's called a hobby, you jerks!)

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

19. They're better than you

never forget that!

:)

[Screaming Lord Byron]

18. Yeah. I remember one day when I was 17, I wouldn't get out of bed

I was depressed, and my mum came in to see me. I was a pretty withdrawn, teenager, I lived in my head, and I think my parents were worrying about me. So my mum says 'What's the matter son. Is it drugs? Are you gay? What's wrong? Do you like girls?'
Ironically, I'd just slept with my brother's ex-girlfriend, but I guess I'm successfully secretive.

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

20. I had a 3 year relationship with a girl who was the ex-girlfriend of 2 of

my brothers - that one bothered everybody - except us (the sex was insane! :)

I think this episode furthered my father's feelingthat something wasn't quite right with his son. Alas - why can't we love who we want to love? What the fuck is wrong with this country?

[SarahB]

21. My parent's were the opposite in a sense.

My mom used to remind me in my teens how if I were a lesbian, it was still ok and it's a normal, natural thing too (she's one of those strait, but not narrow types). I think she would have rather have had me be with girls given the number of boys that used to try to pursue me back then because other girls at least couldn't knock me up.
Anyway, I've never been with another women or really had a desire too, but it's a healthy attitude anyway I hope to pass along to my children. We are who we are in that department and parent's need to get over themselves long enough to realize that.

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

22. Agreed - well put. Its a shame that amongst many of the macho fathers

that lesbianism is more acceptible (theoretically) than male homosexuality. It doesn't threaten them, I think.

I must stress that I am not saying that lesbians are more accepted in society than gay men, I want to be clear. Its that attitude that girls having sex with girls is sexy to some homophobic men where men with men is repulsive :shrug:

[SarahB]

23. I'm not sure what would happen if one of my boys were gay.

I think their dad would never be openly critical. I mean, he's liberal (in theory anyway), but when it comes to certain things, it's hard to exactly figure him out. He used to be a lot more homophobic until (at least a few of) my healthier attitudes rubbed off on him a little. I'd be fine with it, but I know he'd struggle somewhat.

[Cats Against Frist]

24. A Discovery Health Channel Moment

My mother has a fetish.

It's watching The Discovery Health Channel. She's the most sentimental woman I know, yet comes from a background of bigotry, racism, etc. So every time I argue with her about social issues, I point her to a movie, or documentary that has a "sentimental" angle about a topic.

Since the gay marriage thing hit, I've been trying to convince my parents that gay marriage doesn't threaten them, and further, that any attempt to outlaw it is sort of messing with Constitutional liberties. They weren't takers.

Until one night they watched a show on the DH channel about two gay men adopting a baby. My mother calls me up late, crying, saying "and they were just so excited about that little baby," and she was going on and on about how kids would be better off with gay parents than jerk parents or abandoned, and that gays should have all the rights of anyone else.

It was rather beautiful.

The biggest problem that I've had with them is that I love them, and they're nice people, but coming from the remote, Southern area that they're from -- I'm really their only exposure to anything SANE (they can hardly believe that I'm a product of their loins), so it always falls on me to try to convince them of their rampant bigotry and adherence to right-wing echo chamber crap. It's been this way, since I was nine, about everything.

And what's funny is is that even though they accept gay marriage, now -- I'm pretty sure they don't accept interracial marriage. This world is a weird place.

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

25. True dat!

Good work tho!

Keep it up - sanity will always win!

[ronnykmarshall]

26. What would Pop think about ...

..... all the guy gays swooning over your hot picture yesterday???

:evilgrin:

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

27. He would feel horribly uncomfortable - where as I felt oddly excited!

:)

[tigereye]

28. hey I missed your picture Chavez

Seriously, my husband was and is a sensitive artistic type whose dad was always trying to fix him up, even after he brought me home to visit. I suspect he felt the same type of relief when I appeared. Although I was probably a little too bluestocking/hippie/feminist for him. :) See I still think complex men and sensitive men are the healthiest and happiest - they are able to express all of their levels of interest and feeling.

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

29. Here you go!

I agree with you to the fullest. It is vindication for all those years of thinking something was horribly wrong with me! :)

[tigereye]

31. aw you are very handsome

and a sweetie. :) That is a nice picture. And nothing appears to be wrong with you on any number of levels.

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

33. I'm sure your a comely lass yourself!

I wouldn't know tho - I said I love mysterious women :evilgrin:

Seriously - thanks. After highschool I quickly realized it was the folks like RandomKoolzip and I who were the most well rounded though we spooked the ladies in HS. He was the first to marry of our crew of friends and the two of us have had the most success with meaningful long term relationships. Go figger!

[tigereye]

44. I look better in a way than I did when I was younger,

go figure. I have grown into myself. I have the beauty of much life experience and a good heart and spirit. How's that for some BS?

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

46. Pretty pungent!

:)

[Mara Steele]

32. When I first slept with a man my Family was relieved I wasn't gay!!

BWAHAha!! :evilgrin:

Little did they know...

...I really WAS GAY after all!!!

:D

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

34. LOL!!! Awesome!

Way to keep em on their toes!

One of my friends got divorced after he came out (he had 2 kids) went through hell and after 10 years fell in love with a woman - we should love who we want to love - PERIOD!

[Mara Steele]

35. Yes, labels are kind of silly

A sort of accepted universal androgyny would be kind of nice... :think:

For me, though, I was never physically attracted to guys, (although I loved a few of them intellectually for being sensitive and gentle, etc...)

...So I have no trouble calling myself a "lesbian" for good this time. :)

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

37. Saul Williams - OM

through meditation I program my heart
to beat breakbeats and hum basslines on exhalation
OM
I burn seven day candles that melt
into twelve inch circles on my mantle
and spin funk like myrrh
OM
and I can fade worlds in and out with my mixing patterns
letting the Earth spin as I blend in Saturn
niggaz be like spinning windmills, braiding hair
locking, popping, as the sonic force
of the soul keeps the planets rocking
the beat don't stop when, soulless matter blows
into the cosmos, trying to be stars
the beat don't stop when, Earth sends out satellites
to spy on Saturnites and control Mars
cause niggaz got a peace treaty with Martians
and we be keepin em up to date with sacred gibberish
like "sho' nuff" and "it's on"
the beat goes on, the beat goes on, the beat goes "om"

and I roam through the streets of downtown Venus
trying to auction off monuments of Osiris' severed penis
but they don't want no penis in Venus
for androgynous cosmology sets their spirits free
and they neither men nor women be
but they be down with a billion niggaz who have yet to see
that interplanetary truth is androgynous
and they be sending us shoutouts through shooting stars
and niggaz be like, "Whattup?" and talking Mars
cause we are so-lar and regardless of how far we roam from home
the universe remains our center, like "om"

I am no Earthling, I drink moonshine on Mars
and mistake meteors for stars cause I can't hold my liquor
but I can hold my breath and ascend like wind to the black hole
and play galaxaphones on the fire escapes of your soul
blowing tunes through lunar wombs, impregnating stars
giving birth to suns, that darken the skins that skin our drums
and we be beating infinity over sacred hums
spinning funk like myrrh until Jesus comes
and Jesus comes everytime we drum
and the moon drips blood and eclipses the sun
and out of darkness comes a *Saul beatboxes*
and out of darkness comes a *Saul beatboxes*
and out of darkness comes the...

[Mara Steele]

38. That's great!

Saul Williams is very cool...

:yourock:

[hunter]

47. I have some bloody awful scars from a relationship like that...

I was the "boyfriend" she showed off to her parents.

It's okay now, I figured it all out a long time ago.

[Mara Steele]

48. Yeah. In my case I think I was the scarred one, actually...

but that's a long story... I didn't know I was gay, so sex was awkward, and traumatic.

Am sorry for your experience, though --

I'm sure that was heartbreaking for you.

[TrogL]

43. My mother got upset when I developed a girlfriend

She knew I was gay and knew it was gonna be a disaster.

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

45. was it?