Americans are stoopid (Hurricanes)

[Catch22Dem]

We lived in Okinawa, Japan for 4 years when I was in the military. In that time, we had several Cat 4 & 5 typhoons (that's stronger than Charly) yet we had little or no damage each time.

Americans will park a fucking TRAILER in a hurricane prone area then cry about tragedy when it gets destroyed. If you build your house out of straw or sticks, it's gonna get blown down. It seemed like every house in Okinawa was made of concrete. They were ugly as hell, but you could ride out a Cat 5 storm like it was nothing.

Just my observation.

[Dookus]

1. Yeah...

we're eternal optimists that way, it seems. Ever see a river that floods regularly? Or a fire-prone area? The people nearby are wiped out, and then the news shows them saying "we'll rebuild!". Dumbasses.

[Catch22Dem]

2. EXACTLY!

"We'll rebuild" that's exactly what I'm talking about. What they don't say is, "we'll rebuild another tin-roof straw house." Which is exactly what they're gonna do.

I like it when they say, "I just can't believe it..." You built a house on a flood plain...HELLOOOOOO.

[NC_Nurse]

3. I've always wondered why

they have a bunch of trailer parks at the coast ...and even right on the beach.

:wtf:

We have hurricanes coem through every year! Seems pretty stoopid to me to, not to mention these people who build huge beach houses on the shifting sands of the barrier islands here...DUH!

[graywarrior]

4. Remove all the big fancy mansions off the waterfront

Those are the places I don't give a rats ass about.

[2Design]

5. people live in trailers because that is all they can afford

housing is out of sight for most and especially for those on a fixed income

[rbnyc]

10. Thanks.

People live where they can afford to live. If your choice is to live in an area prone to hurricanes, floods, storms, or next to a highway so that you're breathing emissions all the time or to live nowhere, you're probably going to take the high-risk home that you can just afford.

[Name removed]

6. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Catch22Dem]

11. Making an observation

No need for the "jackass" comment. I'm just sayin', we didn't have this problem in Japan and the storms were much worse.

[slackmaster]

26. What's homeowner's insurance like in Japan or Okinawa?

One of the reasons people park mobile homes in hurricane- or tornado-prone areas in the US is they know they can get insurance to pay for any damage. I think it's insane that their premiums are subsidized by people like me who live in earthquake zones but can't afford earthquake insurance because it's priced to reflect the actual risk attributed to the most quake-prone areas, rather than at an individual or neighborhood level.

[Catch22Dem]

39. Honestly, I don't know

We lived on base. All the housing (on and off base) was like that though. All concrete. The worst typhoon we had while I was there, blew some water in under the door. That was a nasty cat 5 storm. Funny thing was, pretty much, the only damage on the island was to some of the military facilities. They were built "American style" Of course you have some villagers that don't have access to concrete, and they usually don't fare too well.

I don't have a clue about insurance though.

[politicat]

49. Ah - you live "On Base". Your housing is provided. Key factor!!

And when housing was built on Okinawa after WWII and during Korea, it was built with gov. funds and through gov contracts or Marshall planned.

The people who live on the gulf coast are usually retired (i.e. fixed income) or priced out of the expensive houses. It's not cheap to build in sand, and the entire area is sandy. (We lived in Port Charlotte for a couple years when I was small.)

As it happens, a concrete foundation house can be damaged as easily by a hurricane or the surge.

Be glad your housing was built in bulk, and subsidized. Most people down there didn't have that luxury.

Politicat

[trof]

15. I invoke the "no name calling" clause.

It's right there in DU's "Rules and Regs" which I'm sure you remember you were required to sign IN BLOOD before they let your sorry ass on this board.
<Secton 7, para. 3, line 14>
TWEEEET!
15 yards, and no do-overs for the rest of the quarter.
;-)

[trof]

7. We have a decoy trailer park

located 5 miles from our neighborhood to lure tornados.
Works every time.

[Catch22Dem]

21. OMG!!!

That's baaaaaaaaad :evilgrin:

[slackmaster]

35. The Simpsons covered that one

Bart to Lisa, regarding a severe storm about to hit Springfield:

"Let's go to the trailer park to watch the tornados hit!"

[Tosca]

8. I guess I'd chalk it up to a CULTURAL difference

/They were ugly as hell, but you could ride out a Cat 5 storm
/like it was nothing

I'm just guessing, tho.

[Catch22Dem]

12. Possibly, but I don't really know

I mean, do we have concrete homes as an option? It's just so commonplace over there that you could NEVER get a Japanese person to move into a trailer.

[deminflorida]

9. Elderly people come to Florida to get away from miserable

cold northern weather. After children leave home, they often times sell everything and move into one of those mobile home communities in a warmer climate. Many are on Social Security or other pensions, i.e. limited income. It's a fact of life not only for Florida but other warmer climate retirement states as well. The ones that are not killed but lose everything will probably leave, but within two to five years others will arrive to take their place. It's a sad fact of life in America...it's not going to change.

I fault the state however for not having ample shelters for these people to take refuge, and for not being more agressive in getting these people to shelter in time of danger.

[MrSandman]

13. Why not some building codes to take hurricanes...

into account?

[slackmaster]

23. Building codes? In the Southeast?

Surely you jest.

[MrSandman]

28. I always thought of FL as...

A Nothern state with a different latitude.

Isn't most of the population from "somewhere else?"

[slackmaster]

32. Same was true for California until recently

A generation ago half of this state was from Iowa.

Florida is a mix of Northeastern expatriates, Caribbean islanders, old-fashioned Deep South type rednecks, people from various South American countries, and more Jews than live in Israel.

[MrSandman]

37. Aren't the deep South rednecks...

Mostly in the panhandle?

[slackmaster]

38. Not entirely

I met quite a few in Everglades City, Ft. Myers, and Sarasota.

[deminflorida]

42. You know not all of us from the deep south are rednecks...

I live in the Panhandle, was born and went to school in Alabama, retired early from the Navy, have a degree, speak three languages...lived in Italy for ten years and I'm a Senior Computer Systems Engineer, Linux-UNIX, Oracle Database type. My wife is also from Europe so I'm hardly what you'd call a red-neck by any scope of the phrase. I am a fellow Democrat however, so thanks for stereo-typing me.

[MrSandman]

48. Not meant to...

Not all in WV are dumb hicks...But the TV cameras are able to find plenty of 'em when there is a flood.

[pfitz59]

16. I blame the state for poor zoning,........

and lax construction standards. I lived in Puerto Rico in a cinder-block house. It was sturdy, airy and hurricane proof. Not ugly, because I had tropical plants everywhere! It takes a strong LEADER to stand up and make people listen to COMMON SENSE! If Hurricane Earl follows its predicted path, Central Florida won't have an intact mobile home left. A fine opportunity for the state to toughen some laws. PS I saw the brothers Grim talking on TV, a dual embarassment to our nation. Pity the poor Floridans in their care!

[fortyfeetunder]

20. Regarding strong leaders

<<...It takes a strong LEADER to stand up and make people listen to COMMON SENSE!..>>

Too bad Florida doesn't have a leader like that.

[Bluebear]

14. This area of Florida wasn't hit like this since 1960.

So I don't know how "prone" that makes it. Fixed income retirees may have little other choice than a used mobile home.

[Catch22Dem]

22. I'd say, if you live in Fla.

Then EVERY year is a possibility.

[FreakinDJ]

30. Only 2 types of homes there

Those that are hurricane proof

and those that ain't been there that long

[politicat]

51. Some of the houses in Punta Gorda were 100+ years old.

There ain't no such thing as hurricane proof.

Pcat

[LastKnight]

17. in one respect the trailer home is smart...

if they utilize the attribute that makes it a good investment IT HAS FUCKING WHEELS, just move it.

ah, American ingenuity at its finest. making a 'mobile home' and not moving it when you know something is coming.

-LK

[slackmaster]

24. "Mobile" homes don't have wheels

They have to be lifted up onto flatbed trailers and towed by large trucks. You can't just borrow your brother-in-law's GMC pickup and tow them off the lot.

Before you can move a manufactured home you have to remove or secure everything inside of it. You have to disconnect utilities. You have to remove protuberances like satellite dishes and swamp coolers. You have to deal with any landscaping you've put around the home. It's not a trivial task.

Besides time you also need money and a place to move the home to. You can't just drive to the nearest KOA or a casino parking lot.

Moving an RV or recreational travel trailer is one thing. Moving a mobile home is a different matter altogether.

[LastKnight]

25. was a joke...

i know its not all that mobile... but it wasnt a serious post. hard to convey sarcasam with words.

-LK

[slackmaster]

33. A :dunce: smiley helps

:dunce:

[FreakinDJ]

31. Hey look Ma his house ain't got no wheels under it

[shanti]

18. yes, concrete blocks

that's how smart people in hurricane-prone areas build their homes. my jamaican friend's house is like that.

[slackmaster]

19. Yes, houses can be built to withstand major hurricanes

Take a drive around a place like Pauly's Island, SC and the contrast between older and newer homes is startling. There are houses over 100 years old there, that have withstood several major storms. They have one thing in common: They're built on stilts. The ground floor is a garage and/or boat house with thin, breakaway walls. The storm surge goes under the house. But there are also newer houses built conspicuously lower to the ground.

People live in trailers because they can't afford anything better. Knowingly or not, they accept the risk that if they live near the shore their homes may be wiped out.

And we have a dumbass insurance system that allows people in that situation to get coverage, subsidized by everyone who doesn't live in a storm-prone area.

[FreakinDJ]

34. My wife's house in the Philippines is hurricane proof

was there during a cat 3 typhoon

Sure the wind howled outside, but the steel roof and concrete blocks never budged.

In the morning the whole neighborhood pitched in and most of the mess was cleaned up by 11am

[salvorhardin]

27. I think Thomas Edison

gave concrete a bad reputation as residential building material.

[Catch22Dem]

40. Really?

Can you elaborate? Sounds pretty interesting. Would love to hear the story.

[AmyDeLune]

43. History Detectives on PBS...

did a feature on it. Edison patented a form for pouring a concrete house (he owned a company that made concrete.;)). Unfortunately, it proved unfeasible for full size houses. Later, he sold the patent, and I believe, a good deal of concrete, to a developer who was able to overcome the single-form problem by casting the house in sections. It was meant to be low-cost housing. The houses were small, couldn't be added onto, had no insulation, and trying to upgrade plumbing/electricity in a solid concrete structure has proven to be "difficult" to say the least. It didn't catch on as a building style for residemtial homes...

[salvorhardin]

45. At one time

Edison tried to sell concrete homes as the wave of the future. It was a good idea, unfortunately Edison was a little ahead of his time, and as usual, engaged in a good amount of hucksterism.

Here's a good article:
http://flyingmoose.org/truthfic/edison.htm

Later Frank Lloyd Wright championed the use of concrete as a construction material, and his Unity Temple is built almost entirely of reinforced concrete. Falling Waters used concrete extensively too, of course.

I think today with modern construction techniques and computer aided design that the idea of nice looking, affordable, concrete homes could be revived.

[midwayer]

29. That is a good observation

In order to analyse that observation

Let us look at the statistics

am I, personally smart enough to look at the statistics and stratify?

NO

Stupid? Maybe...but then you ask the question

WHY?

Wheelchair bound? Handicapped? Too broke to travel? Have you lived yopur WHOLE LIFE HERE COMFORTABLY AGAINST THE ODDS?

When I hear they were given the warning and wouldn't move? Was there someone there to force them and PHYSICALLY OFFER TO TRANSPORT THEM

AND thier belongings?

Sometimes it may be a much more ominous TASK than SOME may imagine.

WOULD YOU BE WILLING TO DEDICATE

YOUR LIFE TO CARING FOR THESE PEOPLE?

Sometimes it can be easier to talk about than physically execute....

My mother was in that position

BTW

there was a shelter that had it's roof taken off in Arcadia

the people trusted in our system

Sometimes.................after you have lived your whole life FIGHTING AGAINST THE ODDS.......it's just not worth the hassle.


FUCK THIS COUNTRY FOR PUTTING PEOPLE IN THAT POSITION
IN RESPECT TO THAT FRAME OF THOUGHT
In the first place

BOTTOM LINE I do not blame them
I blame the screwed up system for not taking better care of

OUR PEOPLE

IN THE FIRST PLACE


THE PEOPLE WILL NOT VOTE AS THEY BELIEVE IN

NO PERSON NOR POLITICIAN

AS THEY HAVE BEEN SCREWED OVER THE BETTER PART OF THIER LIVES

I HEAR IT EVERYDAY IN EVERY WAY

[midwayer]

36. AND GW is a PUNK

Piece of CRAP in the Sewer life

who has no fucking clue about what it really takes to SURVIVE

PUT HIM DOWN TO HIS LAST $1 and

an McD's hamburger

with no hope in sight

and let see how they can deal with REALITY

AND JOHN KERRY TOOO

UNTIL YOU HAVE PHYSICALLY BEEN THERE YOU CAN HAV NO F'ING CLUE

[Catch22Dem]

41. Huh???????

I'm NOT SURE about the MIXTURE of CAPS and no caps, so I can't TELL IF you're YELLING at me, or what.

You did say UNTIL YOU live THERE you HAVE no FUCKING clue. THAT WAS the poINT of my post. I HAVE lived in a TYPHOON rich area. We DIDN'T have this PROBLEM. Yes the SYSTEM is fucked up, BUT you HAVE to be able to accept CERTAIN risks wHeN you dOn'T buILd youR HouSE ouT of CONCRETE.

[midwayer]

46. Allright....

I'm sorry

I'm going off on generalities, and will admit I'm feeling a little psychological stress as well. Some of my points which have nothing to do with your original post.

But..your general statement that American people are stupid for building on the coastal is very general in its terms as well. I will be more specific.

To put it more into perspective would be to say that, yes, you are right when you say that the modern day new construction and homebuyers are taking the risk. But we still have pockets of traditional and original landowners who did not have the benefit or advantage of the new technology and building codes we have today. So to generalize and say they are stupid would not be fair...IMO

The newer structures with the increased cost are out of reach for many and with skyrocketing property values it can be hard to let go of a homesteaded piece of property, bought back before the newer building standards, especially when it is your only asset and you are up in your years of age.

This is a retirement area, and granted they did/do know the risks.

For many, they are land locked and through thier wealth status and original homesteading, can be somewhat restricted. This is the only life they know.

Are you not generalizing when you imply all coastal Japanese are in Concrete Typhoon resistant structures?

No seperation of wealth in Japan? No original homesteads which have not been upgraded?

Just some thoughts

[Catch22Dem]

47. Yeah, you are right on many points

Of course I was generalizing. I think, in a discussion such as this, generalization is all we're capapble of. Americans GENERALLY take these risks and build shoddy houses in areas where it's a monumental mistake to do so. Japanese GENERALLY build their homes and buildings entirely out of concrete. Obviously there are Americans who don't fit this generalization just as there are Japanese who don't fit. However, I never meant to imply that I wasn't generalizing.

Of course all Americans aren't stupid. (just the republicans ;))

[HawkerHurricane]

44. This American Hurricane is not stoopid...

I built in Earthquake country, not hurricane country...

You know, something I don't get.

Every 10 years or so, there's a earthquake in California. A dozen or two dead, couple billion in damage, and everybody east of the Mississippi laugh at us for living here.

But every single year, there are hurricanes. Every couple of years, they'll have one that kills a dozen or two.

Every year, there are blizzards. And every year, people die from them.

Every year there are tornadoes.

Well, you see the pattern.

And every time there's an earthquake, the Pat Robertson types will point out how sinful we are here in Californicate. But there's silence about the natural disasters in Florida, Oklahoma, along the Mississippi...

Someday, the Big One will hit. And everything east of the Rocky Mountains will sink into the Atlantic Ocean.

[liontamer]

50. thank you .

I'm glad I'm not the only one who feels this way!

[GoddessOfGuinness]

52. What I don't understand is,

Across the street from one ravaged trailer park was a rock-solid public housing complex.

There's no excuse for someone who's able to make ends meet without public assistance to be living in conditions below those on federal support. Something needs to be done. Now.

[midwayer]

53. There is a contractor down here in Collier County

that specializes in concrete homes. He has and is building whole gated communities with poured concrete walls.

You will pay about 250k - 300k for a 2200 sq ft home in a gated community quite a ways in from the coast (maybe 5 miles - 10mi) Lately he's not moving quite as fast as we have experienced a conc. shortage but his latest endeavor will eventually sell quickly I'm sure.

my house is re-inforced block with truss roof, small eve overhang and hip roof, cookie cutters, but my backyard goes into a nature preserve (cypress swamp which brings a little solitude, sometimes the frogs sing as a finely tuned orchestra, forty foot cypress trees forest and water swamp, birds, racoons, squirrels) about a mile in from the coast in a gated community, 2100 sq ft and we paid about 180k a year and a half ago. They now go for about 225.

We faired very well. no damage whatsoever in 80 - 90 mph winds

There is a small community a bit south of me, where most of the tradesmen live I know, that is less than a mile in from the beach that experienced right at about the same wind stresses we did and faired fairly well, mostly lost shingles and a few windows blown out. The same community had made it throuh Donna in the sixty's, and Andrew. Andrew was 100 mph gusts through here as it came across and made it to the gulf side here. These homes are mostly conc. block with conventional framed roofs built in the 70's and 80's, although there are some homes that were built before this that are conventional framed as well. Over time it has evolved as before this was founded as a trailer park.

Anything over 100mph wind or the mobile homes factor are definitly what makes the difference.

I hearing some of the wind gusts through punta gorda hit 178mph, most of that within the 10 - 30mi radius around the eye.

Buiding const is getting smarter but with it comes the expense. Not affrodable for the average joe and his family especially when the wages here really do suck. For instance we have a hard time keeping / getting nurses as the wage comparison to other parts of the country in thier industry is considered substandard when compared to housing and other costs of living. It applies to other industries as well.

Just some thoughts