Fur - yes or no?

[Skip Intro]

Poll question: Fur - yes or no?

Just curious...

[bigwillq]

1. No

I have hair.

[genius]

2. I wouldn't wear it. My friends would kill me.

[Cuban_Liberal]

3. Yes.

My meat loaf's main ingredient didn't die from natural causes, so why not wear its fur, if it looks good or keeps me warm?

:shrug:

[Dookus]

6. Tony

I always figured you for more of a sequins guy.

Sorry, I got sequins on the brain... saw Liza Minnelli last night.

[Cuban_Liberal]

7. You oughta see me in leather!

:evilgrin:

[LDS Jock]

10. I WANNA SEE THAT!!!

My heart almost stopped beating just thinking about it. The Cuban_Liberal in tight leather pants, no shirt.. damn, is it getting hot in here?

[Cuban_Liberal]

13. *grin*

That could be arranged...

;)

[LDS Jock]

23. oh baby.. don't tease me

lets see the pic.. or a streaming video.. or maybe a webcam show.. hey, I've got it. You could make it a fundraiser. Anyone wanting to watch you in leather makes a donation to see your webcam show. How about that idea? :party:

[Cuban_Liberal]

27. Hmmm.....

I'll put it to Paddy--- he's the commercially-minded half of our union. ;)

[Skip Intro]

8. And mink?

chinchilla?

You don't eat them, do you?

Is it ok to kill them, soley for their fur?

[Cuban_Liberal]

16. Why not?

:shrug:

[Skip Intro]

18. Oh

I see.

Why else would they be here but for our harvest, our harvest soley for vanity.

Hell, they don't have any feelings anyway.

shrug indeed

[Cuban_Liberal]

19. They're rodents...

Do you have an ethical problem with killing mice? Rats? Squirrels? Rabbits?

[Skip Intro]

25. Right. The only good rabbit is a dead rabbit.

Besides, its fur looks so much better on me...

:eyes:

[Cuban_Liberal]

26. And they taste good, too!

Don't forget to mention that...

[Skip Intro]

31. Wouldn't know about that, CL

Guess I'll have to take your word for that.

Do they shriek and squirm for their lives as you kill them?

Dumb animals.

[Misunderestimator]

44. There's an ethical problem with raising animals purely for their fur...

when fur is no longer necessary in our society to keep us warm (plenty of non-animal products out there). Killing animals and even raising them to supply food, is an entirely different matter (though personally I also have a problem with many of the methods that are allowed to be used to raise animals as food...e.g. veal calves). So wearing leather that comes as a byproduct from an animal that was killed for its meat is not the same thing.

[redqueen]

45. Non-animal products are usually non-biodegradable too

*sigh*

[Misunderestimator]

54. Ah... so you would dispose of your mink coat in a garbage dump?

And expect it to "biodegrade", and use that to justify having killed all those minks just for the fur ... sorry, but that's just a little bit silly.

[redqueen]

59. Who said mink?

What about rabbit?

Why do people on a certain side of this argument seem to frequently insist on using demagoguery to try to make a point?

[Misunderestimator]

61. I was talking about animals raised SOLELY for their fur...

And since many rabbits are raised SOLELY for fur, yes, I include them as well.

How is that demagoguery?!? If you think that I am trying to appeal to people's prejudice by saying it is unethical to kill animals for the sole purpose of wearing their fur, then go ahead and call me a demagogue. :shrug:

[redqueen]

62. No, rabbits are used for meat as well

And the ranting about poor little non-rodent minks is silly.

We don't agonize over farm raised fish, do we?

Pigs are quite intelligent, where's the pig love?

This whole thread bothers me to no end.

[Misunderestimator]

63. You clearly aren't reading my full posts...

I said that SOME rabbits are raised SOLELY for their fur. I also mentioned in prior posts that animals raised for food is a different subject entirely, one which I agree is a necessity, but have a problem with many methods used.

And read up a little on how those poor little rodent minks are killed by electrocution by shoving a rod up their asses, and see how ethical you think it is after that. :eyes:

[redqueen]

64. No, I admit I am not

because the whole subject, IMO, is just stupid.

Yeah, electrocution by buttplug, sounds horrible, huh? I dunno... I'd rather be a mink electrocuted up the ass than some poor animal being experimented on for cosmetics.

I'll get irate about *that*, but not coats or food. Sorry if I ranted at you for things others have said, but like I said - this whole subject just burns my britches. Maybe it's because I spent a lot of time as a kid in a rural area and learned that killing animals is just part of life.

I don't know... bolt through the skull or electrode up the ass... which is worse, really?

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

66. Dali Lama makes a good point of all of this in his writings by

demonstrating the "violence" on which our lives are falsely dependent...from the manner in which food is created to issues such as fur. While I am far from pure...the argument CAN be made that any steps we take to reduce the violence on which our lives SEEM to be dependent can have a beneficial effect.

Anyway...just my contribution to the thread :hi:

[Misunderestimator]

67. I don't agree with a bolt or electrocution... and again, killing for meat

is something I can agree is still a necessity in our society (much like killing for warmth was many, many, many years ago). Killing for a fur coat in the 21st century (many of which I see on women in Florida and Texas where it is NEVER a necessity to be that warm), is outrageous and ostentatious.

[redqueen]

69. I see your point

I agree about the conspicuous consumption issue - I hate that even when killing animals *isn't* involved.

But I wanted a rabbit fur coat as a kid... and if I ever do move where it is cold, I can see myself going for real fur (not the multi-thousand dollar kind, of course) over synthetic.

To each their own I guess.

[scarlet_owl]

52. Minks aren't rodents.

They are mustelids, like ferrets and otters. They are highly intellegent predators. I don't have a problem with leather or anything like that, but I don't think any predator should be farmed and killed.

[bigwillq]

20. Chinchilla?!

My boyfriend has a one as a pet. It makes me sad that so many of those cuties are used to make coats.

[Skip Intro]

24. Born and bred to slaugher so that some gal/guy might ooze status

or something.

But its okay - they're rodents...

:shrug:

[bigwillq]

28. I'm not for fur coats or the like

There is no reason for people to have to wear fur coats just b/c of status.

If one argues that it's to keep us warm, they're plenty of other materials that you can make coats out of to keep warm.


BTW, I am not a vegeterian so maybe I'm contradicting myself but food will keep me alive, fur won't.

[Skip Intro]

15. And mink?

???

[Misunderestimator]

43. You wear cow fur? Interesting.

:shrug:

[jukes]

48. CL

you make meatloaf w/ mink & chinchilla?

[Magrittes Pipe]

4. Neither.

Fur is fur.

[Skip Intro]

5. Wish one of you "glamorous" people would speak up...

Let's dialog.

[niceperson]

9. I wouldn't say glamourous

but It's not murder if you eat the animal too. I think we should utilize all parts animals (largely for environmental reasons). For people who live in cold climates, fur is the best option for warmth.

[Shoeempress]

11. Come to New England in February and tell me your not cold.

Besides my cats look Fabulous in it. And don't try to tell me any synthetic fiber or "down" will you keep you as warm. It won't.

[curse10]

38. Funny, I live in New England

and I don't need to have dead animal on my back to keep warm :shrug:

[Shoeempress]

55. Really? What are your boots, gloves, belt, etc made of? If it's leather

than your really just bigoted against large dumb animals in favor of the cute furry ones. If they are synthetic than your polluting the environment. If they are all made of hemp then your woody harrelson

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

65. Silk long undies do the job for me :)

[Donkeyboy75]

12. Are we talking about coats?

Or is this a cleverly worded sex thread?

[SarahB]

34. That's what I was wondering.

Hey, great minds.... :7

[LWolf]

14. No.

I don't have an ethical problem using the skins of animals we've killed anyway for food, like cowhide for leather. But to kill for glamour is a different story.

[Bunny]

42. My sentiments exactly.

I'll wear leather, cause I eat cows. But no mink, sable, chinchilla, etc. Pure, unnecessary vanity.

[MissAnnThrope]

17. Neither

I don't consider it glamorous, in spite of inheriting fur coats from my mother that I do wear. I don't consider it murder, as fur does come from animals in the rodent family and from living across the road from a farm for years, I've killed more than my share of mice and rats that decided to nest in my house for the winter.

Nothing bugs me more than someone munching a hamburger and wearing leather shoes telling me fur is murder. I find it hypocritical. I also think those who go around throwing blood and paint on people wearing fur need a lesson is civil liberties. Just because you don't approve of something doesn't mean everyone else has to share your views. We are a nation of individuals. We have the right to wear what we want, as long as it doesn't violate local indecency ordinances.

If you don't like fur, or it offends you, don't wear it. And don't force your morals on anyone else. Doing so makes a person no better than oh, say, the Religious Right.

[Skip Intro]

22. Well

You won't find me munching on a hambuger wearing leather shoes and preaching that fur is murder.

I do find it offensive, on a deep level, that someone would opt to put an animal to death merely so that he/she could harvest that animal's fur. And I believe I have the right to express that view without being compared to the "religous right." Thank you very much.

Are you the pot, or the kettle?

[MissAnnThrope]

41. You Missed My Point

I said, preaching such views and expecting people to convert to your own set of morals because something offends you is akin to the Religious Right. As they try to foist their morals on the general public.

I let no one preach morals to me, nor do I preach morals to anyone else. If I choose to wear my inherited fur coat from the 1940s made by Bullwinkle Furriers, who are no longer in business, AFAIK, I have the right to wear it in public, without having paint or blood thrown on me, or without someone attacking me and giving me a lecture. It is MY free will. Period. If it offends a person, they needn't look at me.

Do you understand what I'm saying?

[comradebillyboy]

21. neither actually

fur is the moral equivalent of leather.

i wear leather i eat meat i am so glad i live in this modern world where someone else kills and skins the animals for me

but i'd do it my self if i had to

[DemBones DemBones]

29. "Murder" applies only to killing humans, not to killing animals.

I don't wear fur so much because it's "glamourous" as because it's wonderfully warm and soft.

I love animals but I eat meat and wear leather, why not wear fur, too? We can support humane treatment of animals without giving up meat, fur, or leather.

[EstimatedProphet]

30. Fur is neither murder or glamorous

it is a by-product of wildlife management-except for fur farms, of course.

[Gothic Sponge]

32. Fur is murder!

[bratcatinok]

33. On some people fur is glamourous

but not on me. I'm 5'0" tall and when I try on a fur coat I end up looking like a short furry linebacker. Something about the bulk the fur adds to my frame makes me look out of proportion. Leather is a different story though and I love my leather jackets.

[Crunchy Frog]

35. Not unless you eat the animal it came off. n/t

[InkAddict]

36. Just a touch is muy elegant

A silver fox shawl collar on a dress winter coat or maybe a winter muff & trimmed hat - I love it. A whole coat - no way!

[Khephra]

37. If you live in a society that needs to use fur to survive? Yes.

If you live in a society that uses fur for fashion? NO.

[curse10]

39. Murder. And disgusting

No need for it, whatsoever, except for those people that actually think it looks good-- and then they are delusional

edit to fix typos

[dancing kali]

40. If I eat it

I can wear it. I eat beef, venison, and rabbit so I can wear their skins. If I don't eat it - I don't feel I have the right to wear it.

[Bunny]

46. Some of the responses here are too much.

It's fine to needlessly kill animals, just so you can prance around in their fur? Fur coats are beautiful, luxurious, and warm. But hardly a necessity, by any standard.

I wonder if some of these people are the same ones who continuously demand that others justify their driving choices. Drive an SUV? You're evil. Wear fur? No problem. I'm just curious.

[redqueen]

47. Your choices aren't yes or no

They're worded in an inflammatory way.

I prefer natural fur. But not because I think it's glamorous.

[Frangible]

49. None of the above

I wear leather (in my shoes) and eat meat, who am I to criticize fur?

I don't think it's glamorous though. I think it's tacky. But murder it ain't.

[noonwitch]

50. I always wanted a fur coat, they feel so smooth and soft.

I eat meat and wear leather shoes, so what's the difference? I'm a carnivore, after all.

[tigerbeat]

51. i'm a vegetarian who doesn't wear leather

and in my humble opinion it's murder. we're supposed to be compassionate, intelligent creatures who've been entrusted (whether it be by evolution or divine providence) to be caretakers of this planet and we're failing miserably at it. driving SUVs, eating such huge amounts of meat that our bodies were never meant to ingest and creating an unsustainable system of supplying that meat and then raising animals simply so we can wear them. i find it repulsive.

however, i am pro-choice across the board and i do not claim to have a higher knowledge of the grand scheme of things. if someone asks my opinion, i offer it. otherwise i tend believe i can better serve my beliefs by example than by coercion. (unless that prick in the SUV cuts me off.....then i offer him/her the pinkie salute!)

[auburngrad82]

53. I say no but I've heard that razor burn can be hell.

[Noodleboy13]

56. Unless you live in Nunavut, or your name is Will Stieger

I think fur is unnecessary.

I bike around in Minnesota winters; layers and wool are more than adequate for warmth.

[noonwitch]

58. It's not a matter of need, it's a matter of wanting

I want a fur coat someday, if I can afford it. It's not my highest priority, I'd rather have a swimming pool or hot tub, but if I was rich, I'd buy a mink. They're pretty, and are so soft to the touch.

If I ever have enough money to buy one, or if someone ever gives me a mink for a gift, I will wear it proudly and will sue the first PETA protester who throws red paint on it for the cost of the coat.

[Radical Activist]

57. I can see how inefective PETA is

by the response to this poll...sometimes pissing people off works.

[mosin]

60. Fur is silly.

But leather is very useful. :)

[Ratty]

68. Fur's no different from chickens or leather belts and shoes

We're pretty cruel to the animals we kill and use in this society. They way those poor chickens are caged up unable to move for their entire lives to fatten up their juicy breasts. I don't even want to get into what they do to geese for their foi grois (which I now do not eat). I have no problem with using animals for their meat or leather. I have no problem with using an animal for its fur. I think fur is elegant and classy. I do object to excessively cruel industries, more than just on a personal level--I'd vote to forcibly regulate them. Much of the fur industry needs cleaning up, I grant you, but in principle I have no problem with fur.

[PittPoliSci]

70. what about leather?

i love leather.

[shanti]

71. i don't own any fur

but my sister just bought a long camelhair winter coat with a huge fur (fox?) collar. it's really pretty, but she's in southern california and is somewhat afraid to wear it come winter because of what people might say/do to her...her son's october wedding is in virginia, so i told her to wear it there!

[Surf Cowboy]

72. Yeah, fur is murder,

But so are hamburgers. And I'm not giving up Whoppers anytime soon. Should the Native Americans feel guilty about having upholstered tepees with skins? Or for having used fur for clothing?