To Vaccinate... or not to Vaccinate

[dolgoruky]

Wow, this parenting this is a minefield.

My son is 8 weeks old and the nasty doctor wants to stick a big needle in his widdle arm. But what do I do? I've been doing a little research on the internet and it seems that some of these vaccines do more harm than good. I'm confused. At the end of the day the decision is entirely mine, but maybe some of you people out there have been in this position and can share your experiences with me.

I realise this is something of a contentious issue, but my mind is open. Step inside...

[soothsayer]

1. which vaccination?

[dolgoruky]

4. Diptheria, Tetanus, Pertussis...

... and maybe influenza.

[Liberal Veteran]

2. I am very much pro-vaccinate.

Yes, there is a risk as there is with just about any procedure, but we don't want to return to a time when children died of childhood diseases we now immunize for at an alarming rate.

Not vaccinating your child, unless you absolutely know that the child cannot tolerate the vaccine, is, in my opinion, irresponsible and unfair to the majority of parents who do vaccinate their children.

If EVERYONE decided not to vaccinate, we'd be right back where we were 100 years ago where just making it out of childhood was an accomplishment.

One could argue that because the other children are vaccinated it means the child will have much less chance being exposed to a disease, but once again, it's unfair to place that burden on everyone else's kids except your own.

Indeed, I am going myself to get my booster shot for Hep B.

[shraby]

5. Go on the internet

and google the diseases that the vaccines prevent. Learn what those diseases do, like measles will cause blindness and death. Before vaccinations for measles thousands of children died from it.
Polio..terrible disease. Ever hear of an iron lung?
Whooping cough..thousands died of it before the vaccine.

I could go on and on, but look up the history of these diseases for yourself.

[Liberal Veteran]

7. Exactly my point. Vaccination, is the much lesser evil....

...than what we had before vaccination.

[StClone]

3. Minimal risk, major benefits

My three kids nearly all grown and out of the house had all thier shots with no regrets.

Like the "Flouridation Scare" the internet is full of news by a few that don't have a good handle on statistics, probablity, nor Science.

[Ilsa]

6. Actually, it'll be in his widdle thigh.

I think there are some vaxes (like the Hep B) that can wait if your baby isn't in day care and if there are no risk factors in your family. But you need to check and see what happens with your school system and whether you can selectively vax. Breastfeeding provides some passive immunity if you are up to date on your vaxes.

I support your right to chose, based on family history, etc. Personally, I think all thimerosal should be taken out of all vaccines, but I doubt that'll happen.

My pediatrician waited until my babies were two months old before starting vaxes.

BTW, this has been talked to death on this board.

(Congrats on the baby!)

[Lizz612]

8. Are you reading about the autism thing?

I think that was pretty throughly debunked a few years ago, but I would have to to some digging. The science behind vaccinations is quite old and very well tested and respected. When the time comes, have the kiddo get the chicken pox vaccine. Not just for the chicken pox, but also to prevent shingles later in life. My mother had shingles a few years ago, not fun.

[arwalden]

9. Anti-Vaccination Liars >>> WARNING <<< Ugly Pictures Inside

Well... okay... the ugly pictures aren't inside THIS message. Just follow the link below to an earlier thread that touched on vaccinations and the anti-vaccination fringe.

But be warned... the photos are not pretty.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=111&topic_id=28376#28406

[fairfaxvadem]

10. Most of us who have been vaccinated since the '50s are fine.

I know about the autism bit and there are parents who think that taking their kids to a chiropractor instead of vaccinating is all that you need to do to boost their immune system, but the risk to your kid is very small.

Nothing is 100% perfect. But the vast majority of us who had the usual childhood shots are doing fine, so your child has better odds with the vaccinations than without.

And, frankly, with the re-emergence of all sorts of cooties, like TB, etc., erring on the side of giving the shots is likely the wiser course.

By the way, how do public school systems deal with kids who aren't vaccinated?

[Ilsa]

13. The city of Austin sent a bunch of kids home last week.

Their shots weren't up to date.

Kids are required in TX to either have their shots or one of several types of exception statements, either medical, religious, etc.

[fairfaxvadem]

16. Did the news give any reason for the lack of uptodate shots?

Attributable to parental laziness, or lack of access to clinis for lower income families, no health insurance, etc?

I'd be curious to know.

Geez, it's a far cry from the days when we would line up outside the school clinic with our sleeves rolled up.

[2Design]

11. go to Nature Sunshine site and find a person....

who has a lot of knowledge in this area.....there are herbs you can take to rid the body of the negative effects on the body from the shot....

don't know all about it but someone who has been with the company a long time can give you better information...

There are some people who don't believe in shots at all. Not sure how or with what that they protect themselves.

[faithnotgreed]

12. PLEASE ask if there is any mercury in the vaccination. mercury is

in some vaccinations as a preservative

please check. this stuff is toxic and unecessary.
im in the midst of chelating this stuff because its causing health problems.

autism and many childhood cancers etc are rampant in our toxic world. this is not only because of vaccinations but they can play their part.
the government says its not an issue but of course we know what the government says...

i hope this was ok to post. i just want to share if it will help anybody.
very best wishes to you and your baby.

[medeak]

26. mercury indeed

a friend is doing research on the link of autism and vaccinations at present.

We have a lot more to learn.

I never was vaccinated after first one put me in hospital for 3 months with kidney failure....so sort of anti vaccination. It was great in the 60's as kids lined up and I was excused.

[Sven77]

14. mercury poison

:tinfoilhat: do a google search for vaccine and mercury. mercury poisoning causes autism in children and can reduce IQ. schools promote vaccines and say you cant go without them, but you can sign a exemption form.

http://www.healing-arts.org/children/vaccines/vaccines-mercury.htm

http://www.mercola.com/2001/jun/13/autism_mercury.htm
"Many of the vaccines contain a preservative called thiomersal, which is 49.6% mercury - a substance known to have neurotoxic effects, especially in infants whose brains are still developing."

http://www.mercvacalliance.com/

http://www.searchinfowars.com/iw/index.php?action=search&s=vaccine

[Lizz612]

18. It cannot be THE cause of Autism

Mercury poisoning maybe a factor in why some children have autism and some don't, but logically it cannot be the only cause, otherwise all the rest of us who got our vaccinations would have it. </nit-picky scientist mode>
I'm sure the mercury in the vaccine isn't helpful, but I'm sure there are larger sources of mercury that the child could be exposed to these days (fish).

(Edit: grammar)

[Ilsa]

24. Some of us are also concerned that genetically,

our bodies are less able to handle toxic chemicals. There is speculation even about blood type and Rh factor having to do with this subject of metabolism.

[Lizz612]

25. Exactly

There is more going on here than simply mercury poisoning. I hadn't heard what other factors were being considered, thanks for the info.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

15. reasons to vaccinate

1. Some of those diseases are really harmful. I have a partial hearing loss because of measles, because measles vaccine didn't exist when I was nine years old. Both my mother and I agree that it was the nastiest of the childhood diseases I had. Sure, most kids came out of it fine, but others went deaf, went blind (they tried to prevent blindness by making the patient lie in a dark room and wear sunglasses when exposure to light was unavoidable), or even died.

2. Reactions are usually not severe. I had an adverse reaction to my first smallpox vaccination (back when they still gave them) at the age of seven, and it was like a mild case of the flu. Yes, occasionally--VERY occasionally, children die from complications of vaccinations, but they also died of measles, whooping cough, and polio.

3. If your child is unvaccinated, he can infect others. This may not be too serious if the other kids are vaccinated, but just think of rubella (German measles), which is like a bad flu for children but can cause severe birth defects if a pregnant woman gets it.

4. What if you travel in a country where those diseases are prevalent?

ON EDIT: The whole "mercury causes autism" notion has not been proven, and if it were true, we'd see even more children with autism than we do.

[Sven77]

17. "mad hatter syndrome"

http://educate-yourself.org/vcd/

http://www.the-cma.org.uk/HTML/hatter.htm

:tinfoilhat:

The Autism – Vaccine Connection:
Comparison of Characteristics
http://www.know-vaccines.org/autism.html

[JVS]

19. Vaccinate

Imagine what the world would be like if everyone decided not to vaccinate.

Reaping the benefits of vaccination without participating in the program is the moral equivalent of enjoying union representation at work but not joining the union because you don't want to pay dues

[NorthernSpy]

31. you're absolutely right about that

Reaping the benefits of vaccination without participating in the program is the moral equivalent of enjoying union representation at work but not joining the union because you don't want to pay dues


Exactly so! One of the things that really bugs me about the anti-vaxers is their habit of saying things like, "Oh, there's no need for me get my kid the shots; the other kids all have them, so my kid probably would not encounter those diseases in the first place..."

In fact, herd immunity exists only because the vast majority of people accept vaccination. The rightful beneficiaries of herd immunity are the small minority of people who, because of immune system flaws, will fail to produce the necessary antibodies after an immunization. Those notion-y eople who refuse vaccination are trying to make use of mass imunity while undermining it for the few who have no choice but to rely upon other people's non-carrier status.


Mary

[Green Mountain Dem]

20. The key here is to be aware.....

be VERY aware for 36-72 hrs after he receives the shot. Look for any spike in temp and be especially concerned if he cries a lot and if the cry is more intense than usual or if it is of long duration. That is the First sign of adverse reaction. The culprit is the Pertussis (whooping cough) or the P in the DPT vaccination...it has been known for years that it can be easily contaminated and your pediatrician should have advised you of the possible side effects.

Our daughter was fussy and spiked temps after each vaccination and the 3rd one caused a grand mal seizure lasting for 45 mins. Her brain trauma is not reversible, but maybe stem cell research will produce favorable results in the future. She has been in Special Education all of her life and is doing just fine...she just celebrated her 27th Birthday!

She represented the State of Vermont in the 1989 Special Olympic World Games held in NC...she came home with a Silver Medal!

So again..not to be an alarmist but be very observant and bring him to the ER immediately if you suspect anything is wrong...and if nothing wrong, give him a BIG hug anyway!!

[medeak]

33. MOVING POST!

thank you so much for sharing your story.

[BiggJawn]

21. My daughter was vaccinated....TWICE!

When she came to live with me, her records were "lost", so before the school would allow her in, I had to have her stuck all over again.

I would advise to go ahead and do it. But that's just me, If I had a son, he'd be "trimmed", too.

[mzmolly]

22. I won't re-debate this issue again myself. But here are a couple threads

where the issue of vaccination was debated to a great degree.

The conversation got heated at times, but you'll see both sides represented here.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=228982#229398

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=209535

I am not a medical person, but a Mother who has gone against the grain on this one. I will am reconsidering selective vax as my child will be entering school. Though, I am pretty sure I'll come to the same conclusion I always do.

There are pictures of children dead or injured from vaccination as well as disease. Horror stories DO exist on BOTH sides of this debate.

http://909shot.com/Kids/terry.htm


I don't like the characterization that I'm "anti-vaccine" as I am not. I am pro-information/pro-choice.

It's a tough decision, and I would not try to sway you either way.

The Mom who founded this site, vaccinated her son. He was injured and at that time, she started looking into vaccination more thoroughly.

This site is Pro-Information, not Anti-Vaccination by the way.

http://909shot.com/Default.htm

Good luck with your decision. Don't feel rushed into anything. You don't have to start at two months because others do, some people wait one year before beginning the schedule.

Be prepared to be 'shamed' into submission if you don't vaccinate, it's akin to religion for many. :hi:

[slackmaster]

23. Strongly in favor of vaccinations

If you don't vaccinate, you are counting on the fact that most people DO get their children vaccinated to keep YOUR children safe from a whole mess of very bad diseases.

I understand the concerns, but IMO it's a little selfish and socially irresponsible to fail to get your children vaccinated unless you know of a specific reason why it would be dangerous for them as individuals.

[medeak]

27. vet told me not to vaccinate

this is what gets me.... puppy had terrible reaction and am told to never vaccinate without getting titers first.

so why don't we treat our own children the same? Before getting boosters...get titer levels to see if indeed a shot is necessary

[NorthernSpy]

30. but that's not the same...

The antibody titer tests may give relevant information re the need for a booster shot in an patient who has received a given vaccine at least once already. Once the person/cat/dog/whatever has been weaned and has shed the maternal antibodies, then the only ways the individual could get high enough titers are:

1. vaccination

2. actual infection with the disease itself


A person who has not been exposed to -- or vaccinated against -- a given disease does not produce antibodies against it, and therefore remains susceptible to infection.


Mary

[medeak]

32. that's not what

hemotologist vet has told me....she's written many papers?

edited to say....think we are talking about the same thing...boosters? Why give boosters if have bad reaction with initial vaccine?...without doing titers first?

[SarahB]

28. I'm generally pro, but....

I did choose to delay the Hepatitis B vaccination for my newborns for 1-2 years. My feeling was that since there was basically no risk for contraction, why subject them to the chemical preservatives in the vaccine. Thimerisol, a preservative found in vaccines, contains levels of mercury which are too high for newborns. I felt the risk vs. benefits thing was too high there.

Mothering Magazine is a good source of alternative parenting stuff. I'm a bit more (dare I say) "Conservative" in regards to parenting on some things in comparison to some of Mothering, but they provide an alternate source of information besides just your typical allopathically trained U.S. physician. Good luck with your decisions. :)

[NorthernSpy]

29. I had whooping cough when I was fourteen

I think I've told this story here before, but...

When I fourteen, I contracted pertussis, also known as whooping cough. I'd been vaccinated, but as we now know, the pertussis vaccines given to babies in the 70s and 80s did not result in longterm immunity for some people. One of those people was me.

Talk about sick as dog!: I could scarcely breathe; sleep was nearly impossible except in brief spells; and there were moments when I was coughing so hard that I came pretty close to losing consciousness. Whether or not the pertussis had anything to do the respiratory problems that I developed afterwards -- and will have for the rest of my life, presumably -- I really can't say. But getting sick sure didn't help my lungs any.

Consider this, though: despite being exposed to me, none of my classmates got sick. This was by far the most important aspect of the entire episode. Vaccination is mandatory for school enrollment where I live. Dozens of kids who would otherwise have fallen seriously ill didn't. The shot protected them.


Mary