College students! What do you hate most about your...

[Book Lover]

college textbooks? As some know, I work for a textbook publisher (no, I'm not going to say who) and I have recently been aligned to the History discipline. What's the one thing you hate most about your textbooks, other than the price (that's another thread...) ? What would you want to see in your history books? I am asking only to satisfy my curiosity; I can't effect content change. But I sure can put a bug in the editors' ears...

[LeftCoast]

1. I'm in nursing school...do you guys do nursing texts?

'cuz I could probably hook you up w/ 50 nursing students who'd LOVE to give you an ear-full. :evilgrin:

[Book Lover]

4. Unfortunately, no

IIRC, nursing books are Mosby, mostly, and Lippincot. I think they're in NYC... But my mom was a public health nurse for many years, so I can say that I've heard a lot of it already.

[LeftCoast]

7. Actually the Mosby books are fairly decent

Saunders seems to put out more of the "textbooks" though. Mosby books are reference generally.

Anyway, it must be a profitable niche market because I've never spent so much in books in my life. :)

[HEyHEY]

2. AS I recall

They don't last long enough - strongerspines

[Book Lover]

6. Printing and binding

What can I say about it? In North America (I can't speak to overseas printers), quality will vary, even at the same plant. Also, keep in mind that a textbook is used more often than a trade book, but is manufactured to the same specs. Were we to build them tougher, they cost even more...

[flamingyouth]

3. I know you said you didn't want to hear about price

But I'm being gouged beyond belief buying anatomy & physiology books.

My other rant would be the new edition each year. :(

[Book Lover]

10. Four-color will cost ya

When taking a letterpress class, I once heard an old-timer explain how he charged for work. He said, "The first book is very expensive; all the rest are free. How expensive? How many free copies do you want?" Nearly all the cost is in the setup - textbook publishers do not print enough copies to spread the cost around to something closer to what you'd see in Borders.

About the new edition every year thing - I have to say that none of my books are like that, although I don't work in hardside (ie, science/math books). Just editorially, I don't see how an author can crank out a new revision every year. But enough folks complain about it, so it must happen. I just have never had any books that have been on that short a revision cycle.

on edit - one more thing I forgot to say: buying through your college bookstore will add to the cost. If you can, buy directly from the publisher's website - the majority have that capability.

[flamingyouth]

11. Oh, I understand

These are huge books too, often with pull-out sections and things.

What I want to know is why McFarland, who publishes silent film books, charges like $75 for a jacket-less hard cover book!

[tigereye]

14. what are you studying FY?

[flamingyouth]

19. Massage therapy

[YellowRubberDuckie]

5. Um, the truth, and not just our version of it?

That'd be great for starters.
Duckie

[Book Lover]

9. I am working so hard on that

To tell the truth, I see more obfuscation in the Poli Sci titles than in History.

I don't think I'm giving away a trade secret when I say that most folks in print publishing are liberal; the conversations you hope we're having ("Could you please put in something about MacArthur nearly destroying the Philippines, please?!") do happen. But the tail wags the dog somewhat; authors respond to reviewers' comments on the manuscript, and something we hear is "Leave this out; I don't teach it." And sadly, that cuts into the expression of new theories at the freshman/sophomore level books - those go into grad-level books.

[murielm99]

8. History, eh?

I'll tell you what bugs the hell out of me.

We set aside a month for Black history and women's history. Theose stories should be throughout the textbooks, and studied all year.

When I taught history, I did it that way. I never got in trouble, either.

Those things are too set aside in the curriculum.

[Book Lover]

12. Diversity is a common keyword

That is used, especially when discussing cover images. I know the movement to be really inclusive (ie, more than Harriet Tubman and Malcolm X) is gaining momentum. And now I can say that even educators have complained to me about the lack of diversity throughout the books!

[kariatari]

13. A few suggestions

I hate huge books that have lots of text and very few pictures. It's even worse when the pictures are in only black and white, especially when they are showcasing art.

I like it when text is broken up with either headings or pictures that relate to subject matter.

Those random "Did you know?" or "Quiz Yourself" boxes are great when scattered throughout the book.

I don't like flimsy pages that stick together easily, but I don't like the super-thick, glossy ones either.

I like the chapter number and title in the upper outer corners of every page of the chapter.

I like text that reads like people would talk in everyday life or how a prof would lecture because you can read it faster and retain more of it.

I like when text books use modern examples or make allusions to relate subject matter.

Also, I hated how my high school text books completely skip over any of the mistakes that the US has made over the course of history. If you can do anything about that, please do. :)

[Book Lover]

17. Wow - many thanks!

See above for my brief explaination about the content seeming to over-favor the US. I'll write more after work (beginning to get creeped out about how AdAware found a few extra bugs than normal this afternoon...)

[sir_captain]

15. These are textbooks for college students?

As a former college history major, I'm not a proponent of using text books at all, but I suppose I would say that my main issue with college-level history text books is that they're too much like the ones from high school--ie, dry narrative, and not nearly enough full texts. In my opinion, college history should depend entirely on primary documents and the narrative and context should be filled in by lecture...

[Book Lover]

16. For freshman/sophomores

For general survery courses, yes. For upper-level undergrads/grad students, we publish readers and theory/methodology books.

[curse10]

18. Font that is readable

I hate it when it's too small.

And would it hurt to use paperback and even divide the book into smaller volumes? this way our backs are thrown out before 30

[Book Lover]

21. You are not the only one

to complain about small typefaces. In general (and I can say this, being a designer after hours) designers like to use delicate fonts when there is a lot of text on the page, so sometimes decisions are made about the look of a page over its legibility.

Many publishers, especially in the last year or so, *do* offer what we call splits; identical to the big book, but in two or more volumes. But the adoption team (the professors who decide to adopt the book. Not every book is decided upon by the individual professor) has to decide that they want to have the splits in the campus bookstore. Publishers (well, sales and marketing) are more than happy to provide that option.

[Kellanved]

20. well, none of your textbooks

What I hated about mine was that I was supposed to shell out €50 each for books written by my own profs, while the very same texts were given away for free in earlier years.

[Book Lover]

26. 50 euros for a previously FOC book

(Free of Charge) My goodness! I wonder who was ultimately paying for them when they were free, and if they were getting a slice of that €50 pie.

[Kellanved]

37. nobody, really

The books are usually written by the Prof holding the course. They were distributed for a copy and copyright fee around five to ten Deutschmarks, without a publisher involved.
Then the scientific publisher Springer (not to be confused with the newspaper publisher) came along; within one year almost all out Profs had their texts under the Springer label - with the students to pay the bill.

[kitkatrose]

22. Well,

I can't bitch too much, because you don't do science and math textbooks. So you're saved on that one. :)

So I will say this: Why do they have to be so damn heavy? I'm killing my back trying to tote these things. And, can you tell them not to write in such a dry, I-know-this-so-I-don't-have-to-explain-it tone?

Thank you. That is all. :)

[Book Lover]

25. Market perception

(i.e., what the sales reps tell us in production and manufacturing) says that a heavy college textbook is regarded as more authoritative, and that adoption teams don't want a book that feels light.

As for the dry writing, well, we can only do what we can once the book comes into production in terms of having a copy editor smooth out the writing. That would be good feedback to give to your professors, too, because they then tell the sales reps when they come knocking, then the reps tell editorial, and the editor can then go to the author with that. Or hey, write to the author him/herself - I know for a fact that authors are tickled by direct feedback. Also, most publishers' websites have a feedback area where you could say that in regards to a specific book.

[onebigbadwulf]

23. They don't offer soft-back books

IE black and white cheap photocopied alternatives.

If novels can do it why can't textbooks?

[Book Lover]

24. See #21 above

All college publishers are offering what you describe, BUT the professors on the adoption team have to agree to use those. Start hounding your profs! We are happy to sell you folks whatever you want, believe me.

[barackmyworld]

27. shine

I hate shiny, coated pages because 1) highlighters don't dry and 2) they glare under reading light. Matte paper rocks.

[Book Lover]

31. That paper is usually used when

you have a 4-color book. Holds the ink better, I believe.

[Nikia]

28. There weren't text books for my 2 history courses

I took 2 intermediate electives that used 7 or 8 actual books, both primary writings and books by historians.

[Book Lover]

32. My guess is your prof

couldn't find an anthology that had everything she or he wanted to teach, and not enough resources to assemble the readings him- or herself (or someone in the department).

[PittPoliSci]

29. THE FUCKING PRICE!!!

Lower the fucking prices!! I'm in college, I can't afford books! I know you said "other than the price," but it's IMPORTANT TO US!! WE CANNOT AFFORD THE BOOKS!

[Book Lover]

34. The poop on price

I can't give you specific numbers (that's more than my job is worth), but I can tell you a publisher can easily spend a million dollars on creating, oh let's say, a 4-color science book. About a quarter of that can be spent on free ancillary products. The art rendering itself can cost over $100,000; printing and paper the same. That doesn't include the cost of laying out the book (maybe about $50K), or permissions for art (perhaps also over $100K). Divide that million by a short print run, tack on the campus bookstore's add-on, and there's your $100 book.

[WindRavenX]

30. thin paper

I am a highlighter nut job (it's how I remember things), and it sucks when I highlight and the paper gets wrinkly or bleeds through.
And poor binding sucks.

[Book Lover]

33. That's a common complaint

Paper too thin to take the additional ink of the highlighter. Thinner papers are used in larger books to try and keep them from becoming unwieldy, but this is an unfortunate consequence.

[politicat]

35. 2 words: Women's History

The real stuff.

I was a history major. My area of emphasis is historical demographics, for which I needed to have a basic overview of the region and a pretty in-depth view of daily life. (Medieval Rus is my area, but I've done projects on disease patterns in 20th C. americas, vaccination patterns in 19th c. france... blah, blah, blah...)

Women's and Children's history is IGNORED if you're not noble.

Grrrr....

No wonder people get bored by history - it doesn't apply to anything they know.

Pcat

[slinkerwink]

36. I want more textbooks on women's history

there's so few of them out there.

[JVS]

38. Price