Just got back from a fundy's house...used to be a close friend.

[Ladyhawk]

I feel really strange. For two years, I tried to be close to this man and his family. Then I got the obligatory back-stab last October: an insane attempt at proselytization. Luckily, the oldest son has left fundamentalism. Hopefully, he'll stay dogma-free. He's living away from the family. Smart move, if you ask me.

My visit was supposed to be strictly business. His eldest daughter is starting college this year and I built a computer system for her. Because of my neck and back problems, John (the leader of the fundy family) came and got the computer.

John is kind, but I've learned his kindness has ulterior motives. Fundies can only love a person positionally, not essentially. This is due to the dogma of original sin. If a person has not accepted Christ, he is sinful, evil and on his way to hell. Therefore, non-Christians are perceived in one of two ways: 1) temptations, or 2) potential converts. The convert thing didn't work, so I bet I'm relegated to "temptation" sometime in the near future if it hasn't happened already.

I hadn't eaten because I had pushed to finish the computer. I felt guilty when offered food, then I noticed a "Viva Bush" bumper sticker sitting on the counter. My face flushed.

The TV was on, probably the History Channel. Historians were spouting off a list of Hitler's crimes and the wife was making little "horrified sympathy" noises. I wanted to shove the pro-Bush sticker in their faces and say, "Don't you think the Iraqis are dying? Don't you think the Iraqis are starving? All because this evil man started an unnecessary war! He's already putting people in concentration camps! He's already torturing them! Right now it's mostly Arabs, but if this goes on, do you really think he's going to stop there?

"How can you not SEE? How can you not learn from HISTORY? How can you not THINK FOR YOURSELVES for a change. Why is it so impossible for you to question authority???? Jesus H. Fucking Christ, use your MINDS, people!!! Or has fundamentalism completely turned them to mush?"

Sigh.

Mush-minded people believing in talking snakes, hanging on their pastors' every word, never questioning dogma. What is wrong with these people?

I wasn't much of a happy camper for the computer setup. :( I feel an overwhelming sense of loss every time I'm near fundy and/or right-wing family and friends. I feel so alone. I can't accept their beliefs. I just can't. And if I spend too much time around them, they start shoving it down my throat, accusing me of being demon-possessed and all kinds of crazy-ass shit.

I've gotten to the point where I can't stand to be around people. I don't really know very many people who aren't stark raving lunatics jumping on the Bush bandwagon. So, I go up to the high country. I seek solitude in nature. I walk. I hike. I swim. And I find I like wildlife much, much more than I like fundies.

[mhr]

1. I Have Gotten To The Point That I Dislike Talking To Everyone

The country on the whole appears to be brainwashed.

I wish I had some nature close by to enjoy!

[Ladyhawk]

12. I wish you did, too...

Nature is soothing and healing. I can even watch "circle of life" things and feel OK. Predation is a part of nature. I am a part of nature. The circle is closed.

I'm beginning to think something is seriously wrong with industrialized society. Or maybe I'm just a bad fit. The people, the vehicles, the cell phones--it all gets on my nerves.

Only nature is quiet and soothing.

[KT2000]

15. I will share!!

It is the only thing (other than the cats) that rejuvenates my spirit!

This year I have a cat that hangs in the back yard. But every year I get barn swallows (the same ones. they fly down to south america for the winter and return to my garage in May - every year)
On the first day of flying the young swallows usually fly down to the ground, but with the cat possibly around - that is too dangerous.

Do you know how they overcame the problem?? Some house finches helped out. The swallow parents tried to keep the young off the ground and wherever they landed - they would be surrounded by house finches.
This freed up the swallow parents to keep track of everyone.

The swallows and the finches also cooperate to attack my cat to keep her close to the house.

[Misunderestimator]

19. Fundamentalist Finches... just trying to convert your swallows!

:evilgrin:

[KT2000]

20. Oh no......

:cry:

[Armstead]

2. If it's any consolation...

Where I am, almost nobody I run across can stand him. Sometimes, I make a point of bringing him up in a neutral way to see how peopole will react. Usually, it's eitehr rolling of the eyes or outright venom towards Bush. This includes people who are middle of the road types who you wouldn't expect to be so anti-Bush.

[salinen]

3. I spend so much more time

these days with my best friend - Nature, oh, and my dog Wendy.

[Ladyhawk]

6. Are we becoming misanthropists?

I think I'm heading that direction. It upsets me, but the truth is I'm so much happier when I can just be alone in a natural setting. I'm learning to hate many of our modern "conveniences": cell phones, loud vehicles, things that make noise, etc.

I like computers because they allow you to put a barrier between yourself and others. And they're quiet if you want them to be. I work on computers. I build, repair, upgrade, etc. Computers are quiet. Sometimes they don't do what you want them to do, but they sure as hell don't talk back.

Nature is my god.

Here I am, on the verge of tears simply because I had to spend time with Bush-loving fundies whom I used to love. I don't love them anymore. I wish I could, but I just want to stay far, far away from them.

Yes, 9-11 did change everything. I'm no longer politically asleep and "OK" with the rabid right. I've changed. Bush changed me. I've learned to hate a president with every fiber of my being.

I wish it weren't so. Bill Clinton was speaking on CSPAN, talking about not vilifying one's political opponents. I don't know how he does it. He's a better person than I am, I guess.

[CanuckAmok]

4. My best friend from highschool/military days has gone hardcore RW

Not exactly a religious zealot, but a total bigot, always blaming everything on immigrants, single moms, "Indians" etc...

And, of course, he has three pumpkin-headed kids he's filling with is hatred.

It's got to the point that when we meet up every few years, it's almost an unpleasant duty we both acknowledge. And we do NOT talk politics.

[jdj]

5. one of my closest friends ever is the same

we grew up together.

I re-established contact a few years ago. She told me her sister was in prison (cocaine) but would be okay "if she would just let the lord work through her". That was my first clue something was amiss, as she came from a totally non-denominational family. No religion at all. So we exchanged addresses, and I got this family newsletter photocopy of her "new home" etc, and the last paragraph was for people to help restore dignity and morality to the White House by voting for Bush (2000). It rocked my world, she was the last person I ever expected to join the borg.

I still can't think of her as the same person, I have to think of the old her as in the past, and the new her as someone I just met to avoid at all costs. It's tragic.

[Ladyhawk]

9. That is tragic. I'm sorry for your loss.

There have been times when I've had the same epiphany: the person I used to know is dead. There is someone else living in that person's body.

I went to a liberal Christian college and developed a friendship with the choral director. He was starting to doubt his religion. It was a good fit. I was starting to doubt, too. Then he underwent gall bladder surgery. It scared the hell out of him because it made him fully realize his own mortality. He could NOT accept the idea that there might not be an afterlife, so he went fundy on me and basically cut me out of his life. It hurts. But the person I knew doesn't live in the choral director's body anymore. In his place is this pod person, this Borg-again.

It is tragic to lose a friend to religion. My heart is doing a lot of hurting tonight, thinking of all the people I've lost because of religion. But it's bloody well impossible to have a close friendship with someone involved in the massive cult of fundamentalist Christianity.

Recently, an old friend from fundy school tried to get in contact with me. When we were young, she was the only Democrat in the whole school (I think), so I hoped she had found her way out of fundyville.
It turns out she's a Republican now (though she doesn't much like Bush) and still believes all the crazy things that were forced on our young minds.

I really don't want a relationship with her and could just strangle my mother for giving out my contact information. I've asked my mother repeatedly not to give out my phone number or e-mail address and she keeps doing it. ARRRRGGGGH!

No more fundy friendships for me. The price is too high.

[barb162]

7. I have had this same experience

one of my very best friends from high school. We just don't talk politics anymore. We can't, she would start screaming or yelling about Clinton. Getting wild -eyed. A complete change in personality after knowing her many years. SHe turned from being very progressive to super Republican about 10 years ago and would tell me Clinton was a murderer and shit like that. I WHen you'd try to tell her that was ridiculous, she started yelling, her face would turn red, etc. It was amazing.

What I would like to know is why the numbers of far right Republicans and/or fundamentalist/ Republicans have grown so much. WHat has happened to the US population over the last ten years. WHat in hell has happened. If it keeps growing, we are doomed as a democratic/ free nation.

[Ladyhawk]

10. You nailed the "insane" look perfectly.

Getting wild-eyed...her face would turn red, etc. It was amazing.

This is what my friend John looked like when he tried to proselytize me. His eyes got all crazy and he started rapid-firing questions at me. I was not in any condition to answer because I had just had a series of very bad experiences that involved a prescription overdose, cops, an evil nurse and a fundy psychiatrist. He came at me when I was vulnerable. Instead of offering support, he tried to force his putrid religion down my throat.

Excuse me, but it was the religion that caused the problem in the first place! I feel so sorry for kids--especially sensitive ones--who are raised so stricly, with a fear of hell burning in the pits of their stomachs. How could adults subject their children to such horrible teachings?

[barb162]

13. several thoughts

I grew up Catholic and then fell away from it many years ago, unlike the rest of my family. Anyone can change IF THEY THINK. But that is becoming a rare commodity these days. Thinking is falling away and faith/religion is taking its place.

I am so taken aback by the yelling/screaming stuff of the far right; I don't know what to make of it. It is not an intellectual exercise anymore to talk politics, to argue politics, to sway another person with the good and bad points about a candidate. That isn't happening anymore. WHat is happenong on a personal level with these individual stories here is happening on a national level that the media calls polarization. Like that one word somehow sums up the positive craziness that is happening when people we know all our lives turn far right. Not by a long shot. (It's more like a mass psychosis).

I am so sorry your friend did that...trying to take advantage like that...that person is an asshole. And a fundamentalist shrink should be reported to the state medical licensing board if he/she was trying to convert you to something rather than help you to work through a bad thing (or time) going on in your life. WHat that shrink did from the little drift I get there,is what a lawyer would call medical malpractice of the worst sort.

I am so sorry any of us are going through this with people we know. I even had a biblebeater scream at me at work a few years ago; she was almost shaking she was so mad at me for not backing down on Clinton's impeachment being a GOP hatchet job by hypocrites galore.

Why are seemingly normal people turning far right? WHat is happening in the country? Do you have any answers? This country will not survive if they take over the next 4 years.

[barb162]

14. oh and forgot

the rapid fire questions. Are they all alike or something?

My high school friend, when screaming about Clinton, kept asking me questions so fast she could barely finish the sentences. I started rolling my eyes and saying, "Jane will you let me talk. Will you please let me talk."

Very quietly as she was ranting with the questions, I said "Jane, how about one question at a time and then we can have a discussion."

This rational reply seemed to anger her more. I tried as much as possible throughout to keep a neutral affect so as not to set her off even more. It didn't work. Very Bizarro stuff going on in these people's minds when they turn far right.

[barb162]

8. Know what you mean

I live in a highly GOP area. I have no good friends here. If it weren't for cats and garden... well you find ways of keeping your sanity as you have in the last paragraph. But having a lot of friends who see things the same politically would be really nice. One of my best friends from college who was eye to eye with me politically died last year from cancer. We would spend a lot of time commiserating about how we couldn't stand Bush. sigh.

[Ladyhawk]

11. I'm so sorry you lost your friend.

I've seen people die from cancer and it's heartbreaking.

I have one friend who isn't stark-raving mad, but he's rather ill right now. And it's supposed to be a professional relationship, so I can't just call him up and shoot the breeze. I wish I could. He's the best person I've ever known...and strangely enough, he's not a fundy. Hmmmmm, this means something.

[Piperay]

16. I can't hardly stand to be around people either

I have actually begin to wonder if there is something in the water because it seems like so many people are getting more and more peculiar and ignorant.:shrug: :-( I'm not a nature or outdoors person so I spend most of my time with my brother and my boyfriend because we are all of the same mind on politics etc. The rest of the time I am either in a big crowd where I can blend in and not have to deal with people one to one or I stay home with my animals and read, watch TV and surf the web.

[AmyDeLune]

17. Gentle Butterfly Wing Nudge...n/t

[mopaul]

18. my parents and brother are fundies

my sister is normal religious i guess, but my mom and brother are total shitheads about it. my dad is what i consider a true christian, he bothers no one and gives everyone an even break. but bro and mom are a constant embarassment. the only way to deal with them is cautiously.