freemasonry thread. anyone with freemason knowledge, help me out.

[UpsideDownFlag]

ok, so my friend just became a "32nd degree mason". apparently, that's pretty spiffy. i dont know much about the FM's, and am fairly quick to dismiss tinfoil hattish ideas...but i am a little weirded out by the whole affair. does anyone know what the 'real deal' is on masonry and stuff? i mean, my friend is a normal guy...but then, W and HW were both masonists too.

so anyway, help is appreciated.

[LiberalVoice]

1. Just posting so I can get back to this thread.

I am interested in knowing about Free Masonry. :D

Edit: Spelling

[okasha]

2. FreeMasonry

W is not a Mason. Becoming a Mason involves a tremendous amount of memorization and study. Besides, Freemasons are anathema to the religious right. I doubt if Poppy is one, either. George Washington was a Mason, though, as were Franklin, LaFayette and a large percentage of the other Founders.

The Masons are a fraternal order with several branches, some of which admit anyone believing in a divine being, others (York Rite) that are limited to Christian membership. They do a tremendous amount of charity and civic work. The Shriners sponsor children's hospitals, especially burn treatment units. The Lodge in my city recently gave its highest non-member award to a local environmental activist.

There's a lot of misinformation out there on the subject of Masonic origins. One theory that does seem plausible is that the Masons evolved over several centuries out of the surviving membership of the Knights Templar. See John J. Robinson's Born in Blood for a lucid presentation of that hypothesis and his A Pilgrim's Path on the subject of the Masons and the whackjob evangelical right.

Okasha

[Khephra]

3. What Okasha said

"A Pilgrim's Path" was originally written by a non-Mason scholar who, after many years of study, decided that the crap spewed by the Religious Right and Conspiracy theorists were totally wrong, and eventually became a Mason himself.

Masons are good men of character who believe in God...which God it doesn't matter and you're never asked. In fact, one of the rules is that religion and politics aren't discussed in the Lodge.

I'm a Master Mason, and I'm honored to be a member and honored to know as many good men as I now do.

[Kat45]

11. I've been told that the Masons don't take Catholics.

Is or was that true? Are the youth organizations, DeMolay and Rainbow Girls, related to the Masons? I had friends in high school who were Rainbow Girls, but I couldn't join because I was Catholic.

[Taverner]

15. They do, it's vice versa

Many catholic parishes don't allow their congregations to become masons.

[Khephra]

17. Taverner is right

If a group tried to keep you out because you were Catholic then they should have had their charter revoked as that is DEFINITLY non-Masonic behavior. Heck, I know Pagan Masons.

Yeah, those are youth organizations that are affiliated with the Masons. I don't personal know much about those groups, though.

[smirkymonkey]

72. My dad was a Mason and a Catholic,

albeit a non-practicing Catholic. I remember the subject raising great distress for my Catholic grandmother, who beleived that my father deserted his "faith."

[3trievers]

36. great org.

Greetings Brother.

[Khephra]

39. Greetings!

Indiana Mason here. Where do you hail from? Are you currently in Canada?

[3trievers]

43. Yes

Rideau Lodge 460.Just had our District Deputy banquet and was treated to a visit from one of our American brothers from Utica,New York.Nice guy;a sheriff.Great to know if I'm passing through his area.

[Khephra]

51. If you ever pass through Indianapolis, drop me a line!

[3trievers]

57. thanks khephra

[Khephra]

59. The invite to drop me a line if your in Indy also goes out to Taverner too

and any other DU Mason who might be reading this thread.

[Khephra]

5. York Rite has become a bit more open on membership

From what I understand, you don't have to be a Christian anymore, just that you're willing to defend the right of others to be Christians.

[Crachet2004]

4. I know a lot of Masons...to a man, they are good men.

Grandad had a Masonic funeral, while my other grandfather was an Oddfellow.

They say they won't solicit membership, but they will...I have been asked to join twice. Most young guys join to get connections, to get ahead...maybe not a bad idea, but I always figured I was good enough to do it alone, and I have.

During the American Revolution, the Sons of Liberty met in secret in the Masonic Hall, in Boston. Not surprisingly, many if not most, or even all, were Masons.

However, there is a lot about them on the internet that is not to their credit...how true any of it is, I do not know.

A 33rd degree Mason is the highest, I believe, in the Scottish Rite. If there is anything above that, I am sure it is top secret. They are reputed to believe in, and practice Majick (with a 'k', lol)-but only at the highest levels.

The Golden Dawn (yeah, the same ones who were allegedly tied to Hitler) website used to have a list of arcane and masonic lore that was over a thousand titles long-some reprints of titles a couple hundred or more years old...no shit. Anyone interested in this kind of stuff should definitely check them out.

Brotherblue.org used to be a good link site for all that...tongue in cheek, but half serious at the same time. He quit, I think, but a fan maintains the site, and it was up, the last time I checked.

[Khephra]

6. The thousand title Masonry is probably Memphis Mizraim.

Which was (sorta "is) a rite like Scottish Rite. However, it's no longer recognized in America and most countries. It had a definite Egyptian flavor to it.

[Khephra]

12. "They say they won't solicit membership, but they will..."

That rule has been relaxed a bit over the years as Masonic membership started shrinking.

[Crachet2004]

38. I suspect it probably has been relaxed...mainly because so many,

Like me, wouldn't join. I read an article probably ten years ago that said the mason's average age was 63, at that time.

The guys that asked me were both older...one even had a girl who worked for him he wanted me to marry. I was in my early twenties back then, so that was about 25 years ago. I knew these guys really well, worked with them and liked them, but I have always been a pretty free spirit, come down to it.

Like I say, they are good men, the ones I have known. One told me once that good men were what they wanted-that is priority one, with them. My grandmother, the one still living is to this day a Daughter of the Eastern Star-female equivalent, or wives of masons...never was sure which.

Anyhow, I will say this: if I was a young DU'er, just starting out in life, with no other attachments or connections, I would consider it. The masons are a powerful force to have in your corner, especially in small town America. And at the lower levels, at least, it is mostly about helping your brother and your community...things you might want to be thinking about, anyhow.

If you are a Mason, doors may open that otherwise would remain closed. Something to think about.

[Khephra]

40. We're fortunate that there's a little bit of a revival going on right now

I think the Internet is helping us like it is many other groups. And once you start getting some younger people in then more younger people come in and so on and so on.

I'm going to probably be moving cross-country this next year. It's really comforting knowing that, no matter where I move, all I have to do is show up at a Lodge, and I'll be greeted by new friends.

[Crachet2004]

44. I'm glad to hear the Masons are doing better.

When I was younger (I am 48), anything so establishment was taboo to us. But I have always been in the trades, in one capacity or another, even though I DID eventually finish college, and many, many, many tradespeople are Masons. Some of the best men I have known.

And, they don't call it being a journeyman for nothing. And of course, if you travel a lot, there are advantages in being a Mason. It can be a really big deal in the construction trades, even if you do not travel much.

I'll say it again: by me, especially if you are young, I would look into it. There are some sharp young people here on DU, and we owe it to them to tell them the truth about these kinds of things, as best we can.

And there is a lot of trash on the Internet, but that is one of the costs of freedom.

[Khephra]

7. This is a Masonic FAQ on common rumors and misunderstandings

of Masonry.

http://freemasonry.bcy.ca/anti-masonry/anti-masonry_faq.html

And this page has just about anything else you might want to know about Masonry from a Masonic perspective.

http://freemasonry.bcy.ca/sitemap.html

[UpsideDownFlag]

8. thanks.

[Khephra]

10. Glad to help!

:-)

[Khephra]

9. Now, I'll warn you

Any moment now other DUers who aren't Masons will come in here and start talking about the worst BS. I won't deal with them anymore. After going through all-day threads where anti-Masons just posted the same material time and time again, I won't deal with them anymore. It's common for Masons to just keep silent in the face of attacks because they end up being the same BS and, after hearing the same arguments over and over, it just becomes a waste of time to deal with people who aren't even listening to you with an open mind.

Read the links I supplied, talk to Masons in real life, and read the anti-Mason material--and then make up your mind on your own as to which group is right. I decided which one was right and that's why I decided to join.

[okasha]

18. An added note

The former priest of my church (Episcopal) is a Mason. His mentor as he studied for his initiation was Jewish, a survivor of the Holocaust and one of the kindest men I've ever met. In fact, I've never met a Mason who wasn't a good man. The misinformation is just that, except when it's deliberate disinformation born of intolerance.

Okasha

[Hong Kong Cavalier]

22. I totally sympathize.

Had a "friend" start going off about Masons and how they're "Totally Evil (tm)". (Considering that they founded this country, his bullshit claims about their intentions irked me) I politely mentioned that my dad was a Mason, and asked him if he thought that my dad was evil because he was a Mason (also became a Shriner).
His answer was a simple "yes".
I seriously mentally debated doing something that would have landed me in jail.

I don't speak to this person anymore.

[Taverner]

13. 32nd degree - wouldnt that mean Scottish Rite?

I'm a Fellowcraft myself (did the proficiency and just waiting on my lodge to have enough people to go through 3rd degree) and I thought the degrees after 3rd are all Scottish or York Rite ones?

Anyway, Masonry is just a club. At one time they might have held political power, but today it's become more of a club for history buffs.

I guarantee, however, if you're into old school conspiracy theories and whatnot (Templar stuff, etc) check out the Masons. I guarantee you won't be disspaointed! Can't say anything more tho...

[Khephra]

19. Congrats Brother! Yeah, anything other than degrees 1-3 of the Blue Lodge

Are appendant rites such as York or Scottish, but, so we won't confuse people (or perhaps we will), it should be remembered that the third degree is always considered the highest degree in Masonry. All others are elaborations on the 3 Blue Lodge degrees.

What state are you in?

This is my Lodge:

http://members.aol.com/brlodge/

[Taverner]

20. Im at the Alameda Lodge

In Fremont, CA. Good people - tho I'm one of the youngest there.

[Khephra]

23. Our Lodge is an interesting mix

Most of the active members are from 25-40, and I'd say that it's half Democrat and half Republican. We might not be able to talk politics in the Lodge, but it's impossible to avoid it at the bar.

;-)

[Taverner]

25. Yeah we're evenly split Dem/Repub

A lot of ex-Union presidents in our lodge too. Most of the repubs in the lodge are voting for Kerry too - which seems to be a trend for the older Republicans at least here in California.

As one guy put it "I didn't like it when clinton lied, and I didnd't like it when Bush lied...I just don't like being lied to."

Seems like for the older generation, ones word was one's bond, and when violated, they lost all respect.

[3trievers]

37. We have 2 fellowcrafts next month

Welcome to the craft.

[rustydog]

66. My father recently completed the 32nd degree.

[shamrock]

14. link for mason info

Here is one of many sites that has some info for you. Bush is not a Mason, he and Kerry are both members of Skull and Bones.
http://www.bilderberg.org/index.htm

[Taverner]

16. Actually W and HW weren't Masons

Reagan was, but so was MLK Jr....and Jesse Jackson still is.

In the South the Masons were actually the networks that worked against the Klan.

[Khephra]

21. Chuck Rangel is one too.

Here's a list of famous Masons:

http://www.masonicinfo.com/famous1.htm

A lot of people like picking "evil" people from the list and hinting that the Fellowship is "evil" because of those members. Masons are human like anyone else on this planet, and we sometimes make mistakes in bringing people into the Brotherhood. But I'd like to see someone take that whole list and find one common thread that runs throughout that list other than the simple fact that they're all Masons. It can't be done.

[meti57b]

24. Is this another "no women allowed" thing?

[Taverner]

26. That is my one complaint with Masonry

They should (IMO) combine the Masons and Eastern Star (the female side of Masonry) - it will up the numbers and be better in the long run.

Perhaps Kheph and I should start a movement to that effect :)

[Khephra]

29. Seems like we're on the same page.

:-)

Right now Indiana is working on strengthening our ties to Prince Hall. I'm all for that too.

[Khephra]

27. That's a difficult subject

There are groups of Co-Masonry (men and women masons) but they're not a part of the main body of Masonry. And then there is Eastern Star which is women's Masonry.

Women can't be members of Blue Lodge masonry, but they're by no means missing from Masonic functions. And the Masonic SOs that I know are not stay-at-home wives either. They're modern women with lives of their own. I've yet to be a sexist domineering Mason. I'm sure they're out there, but it would be in the same % as the rest of the population.

One of the reasons that Masonry developed into the form that it is today was because men traveled from town to town and didn't know anyone in new locals...and then with the Industrial Revolution you had the breakdown of the father/son relationship whereas women tended to stay at home with their mothers still. Masonry was a replacement, of sorts, of the tribal coming-of-age rituals for men so they're formed to satisfy male needs.

Do I think it's right....yes and no. I feel women should be able to have womens clubs without men being around and men should be able to have men's clubs. It's like locker rooms. Do women really want men around them all the time? I doubt it. Same for men. Each sex needs a place to "let their hair down".

Would I change it if I could? Yeah. I'm a non-conformist though. ;-)

HOWEVER, I think the day when women are accepted into Masonry proper isn't far away. Eastern Star is having a harder time getting member than Freemasonry. Eventually some sort of compromise will have to be made to ensure that both forms survive this century.

[meti57b]

30. Are Jews allowed?

[Khephra]

32. All you have to do is believe in God

It doesn't matter which God and you're never asked which one.

See post 18 above.

I've known Deist, Pagan, Jewish, Buddhist and even Thelemic Masons.

It's a common misunderstanding. Even though I had researched the Fellowship for some time before I joined, I have to admit that I was surprised the first time I met a Wicca Mason.

[meti57b]

33. sounds good.

[Khephra]

34. I'll add

The Bible and info from the Bible is used in rituals, but, if you so choose, you can have your own Holy Book in place of the Bible during your initiations. The Bible is understood to reprsent the Holy Books of all religions in the rituals. If you ever decide to join, just ask about using your own Holy Book.

[vetwife]

28. The Eastern Star for women..Rainbow for Kids

[okasha]

31. Youth Groups

Rainbow for girls, De Molay for boys.

Okasha

[vetwife]

35. OOOOOOOOOOh thats right..sorry forgot the boys ...

[Khephra]

41. I'm off to bed, but I'll check in on this thread tomorrow

Goodnight Brothers and non-Brothers alike!

:hi:

[flamingyouth]

42. My paternal grandfather was a 32nd degree Mason

[gmoney]

45. blinkered philistine pig ignorance

(Monty Python, the Architect Sketch featuring John Cleese)

Mr. Wiggin: ...I see. Well, of course, this is just the sort of blinkered philistine pig ignorance I've come to expect from you non-creative garbage. You sit there on your loathsome spotty behinds squeezing blackheads, not caring a tinker's cuss for the struggling artist. You excrement, you whining hypocritical toadies with your colour TV sets and your Tony Jacklin golf clubs and your bleeding masonic secret handshakes. You wouldn't let me join, would you, you blackballing bastards. Well I wouldn't become a Freemason if you went down on your lousy stinking knees and begged me.
Client 2: We're sorry you feel that way but we did want a block of flats, nice though the abattoir is.
Mr. Wiggin: Oh sod the abattoir, that's not important. (He dashes forward and kneels in front of them.) But if any of you could put in a word for me I'd love to be a mason. Masonry opens doors. I'd be very quiet, I was a bit on edge just now but if I were a mason I'd sit at the back and not get in anyone's way.
Client 1: (politely) Thank you.
Mr. Wiggin: ...I've got a second-hand apron.
Client 2: Thank you.

That, and the brilliant Simpson's "Stonecutters" episode are classics!

[enigmatic]

46. Here you go:

http://freemasonrywatch.org/

[UpsideDownFlag]

48. ...oooookay, that is some freaky shit.

my girlfriend's grandpa is a freemason, and he never talks about anything like THAT happening at his meetings.

[Khephra]

52. If I see someone using that site

I don't even bother debating Masonry with them. It's so biased and screwed up that it's beyond silly.

But, as I said above, read the pro and con Masonry lit and make up your mind for yourself.

[UpsideDownFlag]

64. i'm pretty sure i'll be dismissing that kinda thing

i've seen enough tangible evidence to the contrary.

[Screaming Lord Byron]

47. Pretty normal, really just a social club with baggage.

Of course, they do protect the holy blood-line of Christ, the Holy Grail itself.

Damn it. Now I shall be ritually murdered in the style of the Three Ruffians, Jubela, Jubelo and Jubelum.

Oh well. I had a good run.

[foo_bar]

49. Gog and Magog be upon your head!

I just don't get how Geronimo's skull enters into it.

[Khephra]

55. It doesn't

Geronimo's skull is (supposedly) involved with Skull and Bones, the group that Kerry and Bush belonged to in college. It is NOT a part of Masonry, although they may have lifted some material from the Fellowship, which isn't uncommon.

[Khephra]

53. Thanks for the laugh!

You're a great one, SLB!

:-)

[MaryBear]

50. Interesting to read a mostly non-conspiracy-theory

assessment of masonry here. I come from a masonic family, going back generations, so perhaps I am biased. My view: to be involved in masonic organizations, one must enjoy ritual and doing good works. Newbies are sponsored by members, and voted upon, so the group does tend to develop a flavor and maintain it. The focus, though, is on service to others, especially children.

[Khephra]

54. And the elderly

Sad to say, our younger generation of Masons are going to way too many funerals these days.

[Jokinomx]

56. My Dad was a 32nd Degree and did a stint as Master of the Lodge...

He passed a couple of years ago....

I had been initiated many years ago, however I never pursued it further... am I considered a mason today? I was initiated in a different town than I live in now... Can I regain my membership in this location? Just currious.

:kick:

[Khephra]

58. You should be able to

People lapse in their membership all the time. Just contact the Grand Lodge in your state. They should be able to help you out. You'll probably have to pay some past membership dues.

[jmowreader]

60. This I've wondered

Why do they call it the Blue Lodge?

I've even asked long-term Shriners who didn't know, and Shriners are all high-level Masons.

Also, what do you Masons think of the "Shriner in one day" programs some Shrine temples are running? Apparently, membership in all fraternal organizations is in such a crisis in this country, some Shrine temples have started holding these events where you come in very early Saturday morning as a non-Mason and leave that night with your fez. (Al Katif in Spokane does it.) To me it seems like you wouldn't be able to gain sufficient light in one day to become a Shriner, but I'm not the one running a temple with thirty senior citizens in it, either.

[Khephra]

61. Opinions varry on the "one day" programs

Personally, I hate them...and most of the Masons I know think they're silly too.

I don't know if they've changed it yet, but Indiana was/is? going to make it where you just have to be a Mason (any degree) to become a Shriner. I can understand that a bit as they're also concerned about having enough members to support the Shrine hospitals.

I've got the answer to your Blue Lodge question around here somewhere. However, I'm currently fighting off a virus. Once I get rid of the virus, I'll get you your answer.

[jmowreader]

68. Work your way into one of the post-Master Mason rites...

and they'll let you become a Shriner? That makes a lot more sense than the one-day thing.

[Khephra]

71. Not even post-MM

They were talking about making it where anyone with just one Blue Lodge degree could join the Shriners here in Indiana. I'm about two months behind in local Masonic news due to a bad spell of health, so I'm not sure if it went through or not.

They're really concerned about keeping the Shriner hospitals going.

[Khephra]

69. The common answer is that it's the color of the night sky

Mackey's Encyclopedia of Freemasonry says:

"...a symbol of universal friendship and benevolence , because, as it is the color of the vault of Heaven, which embraces and covers the whole globe, we are thus reminded that in the breast of every brother these virtues should be equally extensive."

But of course that's just Mackey's opinion as no one Mason speaks for all of Masonry. :-)

[Bertha Venation]

62. My grandfa. was a mason & supreme asshole. Pres Truman was a mason

and I admire him. :shrug:

edit: My point is that I don't believe it's fair to judge a man on a single affiliation or trait. I know my grandfather was an asshole, but he probably had some good in him. I know that Harry Truman did a lot of good in his life, and also had some spectacular failures. All in all, I despise my grandfather and admire Harry Truman.

[MaryBear]

67. Once, I was going on about someone,

saying, "and he's a Mason!" My father, who was an active Mason, pointedly told me that being a Mason did not automatically make one a good man, and that I needed to work on being less naive.

[Khephra]

70. Yup

Masons are humans just like everyone else and sometimes we screw up just like everyone else. Hopefully, if you're a Mason though, you're the type of person who is always strugling to improve yourself.

[northzax]

63. ahh, the Masons are harmless old men

now the Lions club, those people are dangerous to our way of life. And don't get me started on the Elks.

Frankly, although I have a family history of Freemasonry (old scotsmen and all) I've never really explored it. now would I have any idea how to go about joining. interesting idea though, there are a lot in DC.

[hyphenate]

65. I believe Rudyard Kipling was a Mason

And his story, turned into the movie, The Man Who Would Be King, has both its heroes being Masons. Evidently, Alexander the Great was also a Mason.

The lore I've heard is that the original Masons helped erect Solomon's temple. It was a guild back then, and evolved over the centuries.

It was also rumored that the real Jack the Ripper was a Mason, because of the graffiti scribbled on the wall close to one of the Ripper's victims: "The Juwes are not to be blamed for nothing." Scotland Yard at the time originally thought that it referred to "Jews" because there was some anger toward British Jews at the time, but the "Juwes" referred most likely to Jubelo, Jubelum and Jubela (I think I spelled them right) who were those in King Solomon's time. (There is evidently a Biblical passage in relation to them.)

Over the centuries, the Masons have inspired many other groups into forming, such as the Elks, the DAR, the Golden Dawn, the Illuminati, and many others.

There are some excellent books out on the Masons; I can't recall the name of the volume I have, but Amazon will certainly help.